Tesla Cuts Model 3 Price Again

  On 2/12/2019 at 1:27 AM, ocnblu said:

There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

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So I guess your not a fan of modern AC/DC technology!  

  On 2/12/2019 at 1:27 AM, ocnblu said:

There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

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Throwing stones from your glass Fiat, I see...

  On 2/12/2019 at 3:02 AM, Blake Noble said:

Throwing stones from your glass Fiat, I see...

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You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

  On 2/12/2019 at 2:10 AM, dfelt said:

your not a fan

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*you're  and nope

  On 2/12/2019 at 10:39 AM, ocnblu said:

You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

*you're  and nope

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One reason I wouldn't mind owning a Jeep.

  On 2/12/2019 at 10:39 AM, ocnblu said:

You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

*you're  and nope

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Me:

BLU:

DFELT: 

President Trump:

A Horse With No Name:

Me:

Me again:

Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

  On 2/12/2019 at 10:39 AM, ocnblu said:

*you're  and nope

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Spelling Nazi!  

  On 2/12/2019 at 2:20 PM, Robert Hall said:

Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

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I can respect that. If I was a car fan and could fit in it, which I cannot, it would be on my list of cars.

I am far more excited to see the Model Y CUV which I admit, I will probably not fit in but should also sell Gang Busta for Tesla.

  On 2/12/2019 at 2:20 PM, Robert Hall said:

Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

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I too could respect that.

And I could see why some people in some areas of the world could see it as a novelty car, but seeing as my next door neighbor having one and he being one of those folk that daily drives it for about 40 miles (about 60-65 kilometers)to get to work and he enjoys it, lives with it, does not have ANY issues with it, despite "cold weather" range loss and yuuuuge body gaps and #facts of faulty electronics despite real industry insiders saying that Tesla electronics are the best there is NOW on the market, despite driving a 1st generation Chevrolet Volt and NEVER having the engine turn on to power up the battery despite that 40 mile drive, and having his employer use the company's charging stations, (then was free, now maybe he has to pay a fee, but now he has a 310 mile range Model 3...) there are some in this world that do not see the Model 3 as a novelty car, but as a honest to goodness alternative to Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc and are quite happy and ecstatic  to own it and daily drive it. 

And despite this "new found scandal" and problem of range loss, when 1st generation Priuses and Volts and Nissan Leafs were roaming around with ONLY with a handful of range, somehow this range loss due to cold weather was NOT a factor but now that Bolts and Model Ss, and Model Ys  and Model 3s all have 200-400 mile ranges, NOW it has become a problem.

I guess, because having only a handful of electric miles was not a threat to ICE vehicles...for real.

But NOW that EVs have REAL mileage, REAL THREATENING mileage, I guess NOW is the time to try to get a scare campaign out to try to limit the popularity of them...

Novelty to some. Yes. I agree 100%

But to others, like people in Montreal, the Model 3, as a PERSONAL vehicle, not as an UBER taxi service vehicle, but as a personal transportation pod, it aint a novelty. Its THE real deal.

And, as enthusiasts on this board, the ONLY thing it lacks, is maybe a muscle car V8 or Ferrari V12 sound? 

(yet some of us who complain about the sound and lack of sound fury, drive pathetic 4cylinder CUVs? Or like me, pathetic muffled 300 horse V6s...when the Model 3 not only out accelerates me with ease, but also dances around a rink faster than I could ever do with the TL...because the Model 3 is THAT good in handling on rails track performance)

We could invent other things about it to dislike, but that wouldnt be genuine now, is it? 

  On 2/12/2019 at 3:46 PM, dfelt said:

Spelling Nazi!  

I can respect that. If I was a car fan and could fit in it, which I cannot, it would be on my list of cars.

I am far more excited to see the Model Y CUV which I admit, I will probably not fit in but should also sell Gang Busta for Tesla.

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Short of an F450 not sure you fit in anything, actually.

  On 2/12/2019 at 2:13 PM, oldshurst442 said:

 

Me:

 

BLU:

 

DFELT: 

 

President Trump:

 

A Horse With No Name:

 

Me:

 

Me again:

 

 

 

 

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Funniest thing I have seen in a long time.

  On 2/12/2019 at 2:20 PM, Robert Hall said:

Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

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The point is that it is selling...in ten years there may be an electric you like.

For me 25K and a CPO well optioned GTI is the bomb for the next car.

  On 2/12/2019 at 5:37 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I too could respect that.

And I could see why some people in some areas of the world could see it as a novelty car, but seeing as my next door neighbor having one and he being one of those folk that daily drives it for about 40 miles (about 60-65 kilometers)to get to work and he enjoys it, lives with it, does not have ANY issues with it, despite "cold weather" range loss and yuuuuge body gaps and #facts of faulty electronics despite real industry insiders saying that Tesla electronics are the best there is NOW on the market, despite driving a 1st generation Chevrolet Volt and NEVER having the engine turn on to power up the battery despite that 40 mile drive, and having his employer use the company's charging stations, (then was free, now maybe he has to pay a fee, but now he has a 310 mile range Model 3...) there are some in this world that do not see the Model 3 as a novelty car, but as a honest to goodness alternative to Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc and are quite happy and ecstatic  to own it and daily drive it. 

I guess, because having only a handful of electric miles was not a threat to ICE vehicles...for real.

But NOW that EVs have REAL mileage, REAL THREATENING mileage, I guess NOW is the time to try to get a scare campaign out to try to limit the popularity of them...

Novelty to some. Yes. I agree 100%

 

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For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...though even better would be a higher-level luxury car CPO.

  On 2/12/2019 at 5:59 PM, Robert Hall said:

For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...

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I aint throwing rocks your way. I respect you and understand your wants and needs out of a vehicle. 

And yes!  All Tesla interiors, for their price, have sub par interior quality. Hell, A Ford Fusion, a car about the same size as the Model 3, has a better quality interior at a much much much cheaper price for that matter!

But in this case, in any Tesla vehicle case, the money is not on the quality of the interior, but on the technology that the Model 3 utilizes. Either in the battery tech and power train or the electronics.  Those electronics are superbly assembled, excellently and tightly packaged at placed perfectly in the right areas of the vehicle and manufactured with less defects than any other OEM as of now.  

For a compact sport sedan, it even manages to be, at  worst an equal sport sedan driver to an  E30 BMW and at best, it betters it...

Meaning, the Model 3 out-BMWs the current crop of BMW sport sedans...

But like I said,  I aint throwing rocks your way. I understand you.  Im just defending the Model 3 against another certain individual that may or may not discuss the real honest to goodness truth about the Model 3. 

PS: On the interiors of Tesla vehicles.

This reminds me of a Corvette discussion when people hatin' on Vettes ALWAYS go to the default, go to, flaw for the Vette. The interior.

As with the Vette and with Tesla cars, one does not buy for the Italian leather. One buys the Vette and Tesla for the technology and the powertrain they get with either purchase. 

So you are saying low build quality can be  a feature not a fault...

ICE can be cool though...

One for "Blu...

https://twitter.com/jaydenolson1/sta...364672/video/1

Tempers flare at Supercharging stations...

  On 2/12/2019 at 6:17 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

So you are saying low build quality can be  a feature not a fault...

 

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But that is the thing. The Model 3  aint "low" build quality.

We manage to over exaggerate that a little, non? 

All 3 Tesla vehicles get very very high crash ratings...

I dont really care for the nuances of the Model S being downgraded by Consumers Reports because of...

Despite all the political clout (not governmental but corporate politics surrounding Big Oil and GM and Ford and EV manufactures and batteries and the like) and all the monetary reasons behind all that clout regardless on what fence you are on, the REAL, TRUE facts is that Tesla cars are built to WORLD standards. And Tesla cars seem to be better than satisfactory in build quality in ANY WORLD standard...

And Tesla cars seem to have high crash ratings in ANY world wide crash tests...

So...

No...I will NOT accept opinions that counter to what I just said...

What I just said is not only my opinion, but its closer to reality of what is what. 

Screen cap from link above...

I've read plenty of good things about Teslas, and want to see them succeed as an American independent tech company.  They just don't appeal to me.  But a straight 6 BMW w/ a manual or a Gulia or G70 w/ a manual...those would be a way more engaging, interesting drive to me.    As would most any current Cadillac sedan.   (not that I'm getting out an SUV anytime soon, but a luxury sedan or sport sedan of some sort could be interesting down the road...)

My hometown :
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/11/telsa-self-driving-car-crashed-nj/

Consumers really don't seem to understand the 'autopilot' feature...

Consumers might as well do the bird box challenge...

Here's the allegedly troublesome 'stripes' that 'confused' the Tesla.
This area is too busy, with too many lights/side streets- I'm surprised autopilot would even activate here, I'm sure that can be checked thru Tesla... maybe driver was blaming autopilot to cover his own poor driving.

Is there any ice or snow on the ground? Because that too will "confuse" any autopilot system.  (Not just Tesla's system)

The NTSB should rethink on how it views autonomous driving technology as a whole going forward. Tesla or otherwise. 

And Tesla, with yet another accident, even if driver error, should rethink its policies and strategies (for human life) concerning this shyte!   

It does not matter if the consumer does not understand the tech, or even if we humans abuse the tech, or because the tech is still at its infancy.

Its clear that the tech is flawed. The way we use it, the way it is to be used and consumed, the way its currently set-up...it aint working...

Its up to the corporate world to make a moral decision on it NOT based on money and how to entice people to buy their vehicles and its up to the NTSB, as a government agency, to protect the citizens that they are supposed to protect as a good and honest government agency should do...

Since I don't use cruise control, I couldn't imagine using the autopilot feature...seems like asking for trouble. 

l use cruise control like it's my job. 

  On 2/12/2019 at 7:46 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Is there any ice or snow on the ground? Because that too will "confuse" any autopilot system.  (Not just Tesla's system)

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There is today, but it was clear/dry yesterday/day before when this accident happened.

  On 2/12/2019 at 8:00 PM, ccap41 said:

l use cruise control like it's my job. 

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Wow! You get paid to use cruise control.  This is awesome. Your salary is calculated  by the mile traveled with cruise control or by the minute that it is used? 

I wish I had extra income to come in as easy as that.

  On 2/12/2019 at 8:28 PM, balthazar said:

There is today, but it was clear/dry yesterday/day before when this accident happened.

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Thanx!   But still...no reason for this accident to happen regardless if the driver is an idiot or auto-pilot faltered. 

  On 2/12/2019 at 7:46 PM, Robert Hall said:

Since I don't use cruise control, I couldn't imagine using the autopilot feature...seems like asking for trouble. 

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I rarely use it.

Self driving is different tech from electric cars.

  On 2/12/2019 at 8:57 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

I rarely use it.

Self driving is different tech from electric cars.

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Yes, I know. Different can of worms.   Being a software guy, I know how complex and unreliable software systems can be, have no interest in the self driving stuff anytime soon...

  On 2/12/2019 at 9:05 PM, Robert Hall said:

Yes, I know. Different can of worms.   Being a software guy, I know how complex and unreliable software systems can be, have no interest in the self driving stuff anytime soon...

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You are talking to a guy who often prefers 18th century style hand tools to the electrically powered stuff for Woodworking.  I feel your pain...

  On 2/12/2019 at 9:11 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

You are talking to a guy who often prefers 18th century style hand tools to the electrically powered stuff for Woodworking.  I feel your pain...

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It's funny...I like having the latest tech on some things--I geek out over software and electronics in general..but with some things I prefer proven, reliable technologies..don't want to be bleeding edge on everything.  Don't want to be the one bleeding..;)

  On 2/12/2019 at 5:59 PM, Robert Hall said:

For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...though even better would be a higher-level luxury car CPO.

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Robert by the time your ready for your next CPO Jeep, It just might be GC EV!  

  On 2/12/2019 at 10:39 AM, ocnblu said:

You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

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Wait, wait, wait. “I haven’t had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.” What?

So energy and resource usage is an indicator of “poor quality” now?

Welllll then...

In 37,000 miles, you have had at least 7 oil changes and used 38.5 quarts of oil (provided 5,000 mile intervals and the capacity of the engine’s lubrication system, which is 5.5 quarts). You’ve also burned through roughly 99 full tanks of gas (provided an average mpg of 27.5 and the size of the tank, which holds 13.5 gallons). So much petroleum use! Not to mention you’ve spent roughly $3,000 on fuel costs (at a cost of about $30 per fill-up, taking into consideration the size of the tank and the national average cost of fuel, which is $2.28 a gallon right now) and about $350 on oil changes alone (provided a cost of $49.95 per change, which is what Mopar service departments have charged me personally in the past).

A Tesla costs a little over $10 to charge up completely, if you were wondering. The extended range models have a range of 310 miles. I’ll be fair and say that is a short distance less than your little four-wheel drive Fiat. But, even if the Tesla owner has to charge up about 119 times to your 99 fill-ups in a 37,000 mile period, he’s still spending less than half on electricity than the $3,000 you spend on fuel. Oh, and he’s never spent one red cent on oil because Teslas lack that need.

NOW, with that all said, many a Tesla buyer/owner has spent upwards of $100,000 and never encountered a single issue you’ve mentioned. Nice to hear you’re working with your limited budget, though! That’s a good thing, really, considering how much money you’re spending on petroleum and petroleum-based products.

  On 2/13/2019 at 1:20 AM, dfelt said:

? Did you finally move out too Blu? Last I thought you still lived with your mom.

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Not that you should have a clue about my living arrangements, but I have not lived with her since I was 14.

  On 2/13/2019 at 1:42 AM, ocnblu said:

Not that you should have a clue about my living arrangements, but I have not lived with her since I was 14.

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I was 30. 

I never once washed my own clothes...well, I went to Greece for vacation couple of times for a couple of months or so without my parents, so there is that.  But on a whole, from mommy to straight to wife, I have never washed my own clothes!!!

Damn proud of that!  

  On 2/13/2019 at 12:08 AM, ocnblu said:

JACKET, LISTEN UP!  My Fiat takes synthetic oil.  I have never paid that much for an oil change.  Maybe your Mopar dealer saw a sucker coming?  Also your other approximations, or ASSumptions, are wrong-o.  "Many" a Tesla owner could  = 3, depending on which anecdotal formula you are adhering to at this juncture.  And if you count the cost of time, how much time does it take to recharge a Tesla 119 times?  A LOT.  How much time does it take to pump about 12 gallons of gas 99 times (IF your ASSumption were correct)?  A LOT LESS.  BTW, what are you driving these days?  Last I knew, you were driving a V6 Challenger or something, and before that, a broke-ass old basket case Cherokee.  You were a young dreamer.  Still living at home?

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Wait... hold up. Hold up a moment there. Your Jeepiat uses a synthetic motor oil, OK sure. But do you think that synthetic motor oils are somehow totally completely free of petroleum and fossil fuels?

Because, if so, have I got some news for you!

Most synthetic motor oils, like conventional oils, are still derived from crude oil. And that's no assumption, either. Per Mobil Oil's own website:

  Quote

Conventional and synthetic oils begin in the ground.

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Conventional and synthetic oils both "begin in the ground," in other words, as crude petroleum. The known exception to the rule would be Pennzoil's synthetic oils (branded as Pennzoil Platinum), which instead begin in the ground as natural gas. But you don't have to take my word on that. I'll let the folks who run NAPA Auto Parts's website lay some of their good-old know-how on ya:

  Quote

Full synthetic, or 100 percent synthetic oils, are usually extracted from crude oil or a byproduct of the same. In the case of Pennzoil, they have figured out how extract synthetic oil from natural gas.

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Like petroleum, natural gas, as I'm sure you already knew, is a fossil fuel. The U.S. Energy Information Administration's own website states:

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Natural gas is a fossil energy source that formed deep beneath the earth's surface.

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Of course, once again, a Tesla does not use or require fossil fuels — petroleum, natural gas, etc. — to operate. So, before you go switching your motor oil to Pennzoil Platinum in a valiant effort to prove me wrong, the point still stands that you're still spending more on gas and oil changes than the Tesla driver is spending using the grid to recharge his car. He's coming out ahead there and you aren't. Simple fact.

Moving on, depending on the model, it takes 60 to 75 minutes — or one hour to one hour and fifteen minutes — to recharge a Tesla to 100 percent at a Tesla charging station. I would think the charging station is somewhat analogous to a gasoline-powered car stopping at a filling station. (From here on out, feel free to Google this post to death fact checking it because I'm only going to spoon-feed quotes and links sparingly.) And, sure, OK, it takes about 5 minutes or so, max, to completely refuel an average gasoline-powered car from empty. But that's just the time it takes to refuel, i.e. getting the gas out of the pump and into your tank.

If, to pay for the fuel, you have to stand in line for 5 to 10 minutes behind someone who's also standing behind some moron trying to use SNAP benefits to buy a carton of cigarettes, that time suddenly grows from 5 to about 10. If you spend any modicum of time in the bathroom, add on another 5 to 10 minutes. If you stop to browse the soda pop coolers and potato chip racks, there's another 5 to 10 minutes tacked on. If you forgo the snacks and instead wander into the Wendy's next door, that wait goes up a little more. Get the point? You're choosing to conveniently ignore the convenience store part of the equation when it comes to stopping at a gas station.

And those convenience stores, like all retail chains, are constantly figuring out ways to get you to come inside and buy something. I mean you don't think they're actually making substantial money on that gas, do you? And, if their own studies are to be believed, foot traffic is all the time increasing.

And sure, you can pay at the pump and avoid going inside. But that isn't always the case 100 percent of the time. And, personally, I always choose to go inside or to the cashier to avoid any potential holds or fees on my card, and to decrease the chance of someone stealing my card information by manipulating the card reader on the pump. 

Also, I should mention the obvious that you can choose to recharge a Tesla while you're doing jack-all sleeping in bed at night. See, what a smart Tesla owner might choose to do is recharge the car to 100 percent or "full" as they sleep and then choose to "top" the battery off at at charging station or point once they reach a certain percentage. This is like leaving home with a full tank and choosing to add some gas once you reach a quarter tank or a half a tank. I mean, you don't refuel when you get totally bone-dry on gas, do you? Why should an electric car be any different in this regard? Answer: It isn't. So that hour wait time from earlier? That decreases substantially.

Also, I could choose to stretch the post out even more and start doing some math on the time it takes to earn one gallon of gas, which would average you 27.5 miles of range in your Fiat, versus the time it takes the Tesla driver to earn the amount of charge needed to drive the same distance. I have a hunch you'd loose there, too. But, at this point, this post is far too long, too factual and too controlled to be a rebuttal to a post where someone responded to maths and facts by basically resorting to calling the poster a $h!ty millennial.

Easy there guys, or I’ll have to whip out the cattle prod.. ? 

Jeepiat? What is that? Sounds tasty. Something exotic. On second thoughts exotics are never reliable...

Is that what those bozo teens called the Tide Pods that they ate like fruit?

Anyways dammit @oldshurst442.

why. Why do I hate even the idea of my parents helping me with anything....yet you calmly let your mom do your laundry like it’s no issue. I can't bring myself to have my mom cook for me even... And I'm not even 25 yet...btw I also live on my own.

However I am a basement dweller basket of deplorables, my name is Suaviloquent and I approve this message.

Paid for by OmniOrbus SuperModPac. 

  On 2/13/2019 at 5:05 AM, Suaviloquent said:

Jeepiat? What is that? Sounds tasty. Something exotic. On second thoughts exotics are never reliable...

 

Is that what those bozo teens called the Tide Pods that they ate like fruit?

 

Anyways dammit @oldshurst442.

why. Why do I hate even the idea of my parents helping me with anything....yet you calmly let your mom do your laundry like it’s no issue. I can't bring myself to have my mom cook for me even... And I'm not even 25 yet...

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Why?

Call it laziness. Call it my right as an only child.  Im am (was) her apple of her eye after all.

Call it whatever you want, its my privilege as a Greek boy, an only child Greek boy, to be spoiled like that by his mom. 

*SHRUGS*   C'est la vie my good friend.  

With my wife? She simply does NOT trust me with anything that has to do with HER house. Notice I said HER house?  That is because its HER house and she does with it as she pleases. And she does not trust me to do anything around the house in fear that I will just screw things up. 

I do fix things around the house, but I am scrutinized and inspected closely by her. I have to pass her standards or I have to redo it or pay a professional to do the repair job properly. 

Most of time I do good.   

And if, knock on wood, our marriage goes south, well, its HER house if you catch my drift....

Guys..

Well I defended myself.  Yes, I drive an Italian-American vehicle, partly engineered by a company that's been building vehicles since the 19th century.  Why should I have to stay quiet when somebody swoops in and disparages it?  The opponent in this case doesn't even own a Tesla, so it is not like I made it personal in the first place.  I simply responded, with cap guns blazing, when it was turned personally toward me.  I think Booyah is the only poster here that actually has a Tesla in the family, and this time, he only sat back and subtly cheered Jacket on, he didn't join the fray.  So far.

Anyway I'm not easily distracted by Mike & Ike (the candy) or the soda fountain.  I pay at the pump and I'm on my way down the road, with no special planning on my part if I am away from home.  I can stop and spend five minutes on any street corner in America and replenish my Jeepiat.  Not a care in the world.

  On 2/13/2019 at 11:10 AM, ocnblu said:

Why should I have to stay quiet when somebody swoops in and disparages it?

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1. Chryco. Nearly went bankrupt (for whatever reason in the late 70s to early 80s. I was too young to know anything about that and now,  dont really care about the reasons why)  and got a government loan and they did the best of what they could with it and built crappy K-Cars and minivans to survive and pay back their loans...

a) Telsa had nothing to do with disparaging Chryco with that K-car and minivan thing nor with the near bankruptcy...

b) Chryco, to survive, invented a niche that is still doing good for them, but exciting for car enthusiasts it is not.  OK, they merged with Mitsubishi at about that same same time and bought Lamborghini too and created some of the planet's most coolest and exciting cars. Ill give them that. But something happened and then they merged with another company and got their soul sucked right out. 

Tesla had no part in disparaging Chryco. with that either...

2. Chryco. DID go bankrupt in the mid 2000s.

Tesla did no disparaging thing to Chryco.  THAT would be Mercedes Benz. 

3. Fiat bought the company as a result. And while Auburn engineers have done wonders with pick-up trucks and muscle cars, Fiat is another that COULD be blamed for disparaging Chryco.  NOT Tesla.

4. Tesla...is an AMERICAN (call it car company, call it a tech company, call it crap if you wanna) company that has created a specific want and need for something that is quite different than what we are use to. 

THAT is not disparaging Chryco. That is just great business savvy.  Tesla does what it does, nearly as well as Chryco who has been engineering and manufacturing and producing cars since, like YOU put it, since the 19th century.

Not too bad for a company that has been doing that since, the 21st century. 

THAT is not disparaging Chryco. 

If people, want to buy Tesla vehicles then who are YOU to want to deny Tesla? 

a) You COULD still buy Chryco. vehicles if you want to.  Barring they dont go bankrupt for a 3rd time. 

Again, nothing to do with Tesla my good friend....Plymouth  got canned and Paypal barely existed, let alone Tesla...

b) 

Nothing to do with Tesla either.

YOU may not think that there is a market for EVs. But Tesla has sold at least 600 000 EVs so far in their existence.  And a smaller, less expensive CUV based on the Model 3 is just about to be revealed. You could chalk up another at least 300 000-400 000 pre-orders for that one as well...

THAT is not disparaging Chryco...that is just business. 

And YOU as freedom fighting, open market, free market loving,  buy the hell what you want,  American...well...you gots to LOVE that entrepreneurial spirit that Tesla has! 

THAT is not disparaging Chryco...that is just good business!!! 

PS: And ummmmm....NOTHING QUIET ABOUT WHAT TESLA DOES!!!  ITS LOUD AND PROUD AND TAKING ALL THE OLD GUARD BY STORM!!!  And the BEST thing about that?  Is that the WHOLE world LOVES Tesla! 

There are some places on the planet that STILL do NOT know 19th century American car brands...but they do know about Telsa! 

Chrysler never 'merged with Mitsubishi', but they had an engineering partnership for engines and platforms over several decades.    But agreed about Tesla--they are an independent American tech company/auto maker and I hope they remain independent.   Merging/being acquired by another automaker would kill what is unique about them, I think (though I could see them subcontracting the manufacturing to outside vendors for scale). 

  On 2/13/2019 at 11:10 AM, ocnblu said:

I can stop and spend five minutes on any street corner in America and replenish my Jeepiat.  Not a care in the world.

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But a Tesla owner, does not stop at all...as he charges at HOME!!! For the most part!!! 

But YOU can NEVER do that. Fill up at home! 

My partner, daily drives his Model S. There is NO charging station on the route he takes from his house to our restaurant. There is NO charging station at our restaurant either.  He just uses his supercharger that he has installed at home... 

And he has done that for the last 4 years...

Oh...he has taken it for trips. Family trips to wherever he has gone with his Model S. OK...he had to stop and take time to recharge his EV...

But as far as daily driving it back and from home to work...NEVER! 

He beats you and I in THAT department.  (As he does NOT detour away from his regular route to gas up) That part of his life (to visit a gasoline station every other day) is gone forever...

The charge at home can work for some, but for people without their own garage that would be a problem.

Or homes with no driveways. Or apartment dwellers.

  On 2/13/2019 at 2:15 PM, Robert Hall said:

The charge at home can work for some, but for people without their own garage that would be a problem.

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Fair enough.  Maybe a Model 3 owner (and a Chevroler Bolt, Nissan Leaf owner etc.) rents an apartment in the city somewhere and they park on the streets. 

But a Model S and Model X owner that are 100 000 dollar cars,  the chances are they own (or rent) property that would probably have a garage where a charge station could be installed for use.   If no garage, at least on the premises there is a parking lot and there would be a place for charge stations for the people to charge their EVs.  

Bottom line.

Everybody's situation is different.

We cant discuss and argue all the negatives just to cherry pick to prove a point. 

The thing is, an EV owner, if he is blessed with a living quarters that could house a charging station for his own personal use and has access to it 100% at all times whenever he wants it, then moot point to what Blu is trying to suggest.

And Blu, he is an owner of a house, n'est-ce pas?   

He shouldnt even be using that as a negative that he uses the gas station every other day for 5 minutes and does not wait in line to charge a Tesla for hours JUST because he hates EVs...

Because for him, if he chose to buy a cute little Chevy Bolt or a very enthusiast Tesla Model S or 3, he wouldnt have to "gas up" at a charge station for daily driving duties...

Excuses are just that. Excuses. One could camouflage the hatred excuses and call it "their opinion", but its false to do so that way. 

Ill accept him just sticking to I HATE EVs than him trying to mask his hatred for EVs with falsehoods!!!

That there is the difference why he continues to get flak for his nonacceptance for EVs. His skewing of the facts and the spread of falsehoods...

Out of curiosity, I checked the website of the apartment complex I lived in in Colorado Springs in the late 90s where I lived after grad school when at my first corporate job...they now have EV charging stations on site.   That was a neat place, I had a heated garage w/ my apartment....  (random trivia--I managed to damage the garage door twice while living there--backed through the closed garage door w/ my Bronco, and caught it on the ski racks on my first JGC while it was going up..)

  On 2/13/2019 at 2:34 PM, balthazar said:

Or homes with no driveways. Or apartment dwellers.

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That is still cherry picking a very non-existent  problem for SOME EV buyers/owners.

While that dilemma DOES exist, it aint THE problem for EV ownership. 

Because there ARE solutions out there for THAT kind of problem

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064354/this-startup-makes-it-easier-to-charge-electric-cars-in-apartment-buildings

https://www.chargepoint.com/en-ca/businesses/apartments-and-condos/

https://flo.ca/business/multi-unit-residential-buildings

resistance to change...

because even with THAT in mind: "Or homes with no driveways. Or apartment dwellers."

There are no problems, just solutions...

Granted, in some cases the solutions may be harder to get, or even impossible, but still...cherry picking...

There are solutions if owners are willing to pay for them. Not every apartment building owner will do this, and the majority have not as yet. There are still numerous urban neighborhoods where not having a driveway is commonplace- I'll be working on one such home later today. In fact, it's a series of 6 connected units- none of which have a driveway; all on-street parking.
While I live in a private home, the nearest non-Tesla charger to my house is 30 mins away. Less than a mile away is a large condo village: 83 buildings, The one I worked in last Dec was 12 units. That's about 1000 condos with no driveways & no garages. Believe me; knowing that condo village, the Association is not going to be installing EV chargers anytime in the near future.