Jump to content
Create New...
  • William Maley
    William Maley

    No, The Model 3 Isn't An Upgrade To the Model S

      Why do buyers believe the Model 3 is the successor the Model S?

    Tesla held their first quarter earnings call yesterday. The company reported revenue in the quarter that more than doubled and that they are on track on getting the Model 3 in production in July. But this was overshadowed by some comments made by CEO Elon Musk.

    "We have seen some impact of Model S orders as a function of people being confused" that Model 3 is the upgrade to Model S, Musk said on a conference call.

    Yes, it seems some of Tesla's prospective buyers believe the new Model 3 - the upcoming entry-level model - is the replacement for the Model S. This misconception has likely risen as Tesla has been promoting this vehicle since last July. Tesla's worry is that this misconception will draw people away from the Model S.

    "We want to be super clear that Model 3 is not version three of our car. Model 3 is essentially a smaller, more affordable version of the Model S with fewer features," said Musk.

    "The Model S will be better than Model 3. As it should be, as it's a more expensive car."

    Sadly, customer deposits in the first quarter don't reflect that. Deposits on the Model S and X dropped 7 percent.

    Source: Reuters

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Like you, that wasnt my goal either.

    Further down in the thread after that post you quoted, you get a glimpse of my thought process. And yes, I do think the Continental's interior is fine in its price range...

    Why I am whining?

    Its because I kinda wished Lincoln (and Cadillac) dont only give us "just fine for their price range", I want Lincoln (and Cadillac) to punch ABOVE their price  range to REALLY WOO badge snobs...or at least match Audi because Audi, in my opinion, are the industry leaders in their interiors no matter what price range we are talking about. And the Continental does not match up to a comparable Audi.

    As for Tesla, high tech wizardry gives them a pass in that regard.

    HOWEVER, soon, as other brands delve into EVs, Tesla better start investing in their interiors as many would not be as forgivable  as they are now concerning the interiors as their tech advantage wont longer be.

    100% correct.  When Audi and Mercedes are selling EV's and get them to production quicker than Tesla, and have better interiors than Tesla, then Tesla has a fight on their hands.  So it will be interesting to see how they respond to direct competition.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    100% correct.  When Audi and Mercedes are selling EV's and get them to production quicker than Tesla, and have better interiors than Tesla, then Tesla has a fight on their hands.  So it will be interesting to see how they respond to direct competition.

    well, what is worrying me is that Musk did say that a Model S replacement is not in the works.

    But he did go on record saying that an urban pick-up truck is on its way.

    And he did say that Model 3 suitors are confusing the model as a Model S upgrade...

    Whether that last part is true or what Balthy and Fappy suggested is more on point, the end result does NOT bode well for the Model S as I fear it will be left to rot on the vine...

     

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    A Model S interior is on par with a Corvette or CTS, if you like technology and touchscreens it is better, if you like wood trim on doors, maybe a nod to the CTS, so to each their own.   Model S isn't a $100k sedan interior, but it selling performance and quietness and no gasoline, so they can get by with a $60k car interior.

    Continental's interior isn't better than any of the German 3, it isn't better than the CT6, not better than a Genesis G90, not better than an S90.  So it is like the worst interior of the $50-70k segment.  It is better than a Lexus GS, so maybe 2nd worst interior in the segment.  Worst chassis for sure.

    See these are the dumb comparisons that C&G exists to combat.  The G90 base price is $24,000 more than the base price of the Continental.  The CT6 is $10k more than the Continental and the CT6 product mix is heavily skewed towards the mid to high trims (they're intentionally not building many of the 2.0T RWD models) pushing its real-world base price even higher. 

    The models you should have chosen were CTS, G80, and A6.  Compared to those, the Continental is quite competitive. 

    5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    well, what is worrying me is that Musk did say that a Model S replacement is not in the works.

    But he did go on record saying that an urban pick-up truck is on its way.

    And he did say that Model 3 suitors are confusing the model as a Model S upgrade...

    Whether that last part is true or what Balthy and Fappy suggested is more on point, the end result does NOT bode well for the Model S as I fear it will be left to rot on the vine...

     

    Telsa does running upgrades on their models over time.  I don't see a need for a full Model-S replacement, but they could do a refresh on it... give it a new interior that sort of thing.  

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    100% correct.  When Audi and Mercedes are selling EV's and get them to production quicker than Tesla, and have better interiors than Tesla, then Tesla has a fight on their hands.  So it will be interesting to see how they respond to direct competition.

    More interesting is who will end up owning Tesla when other Auto companies deliver Equal or Better EV's and Tesla needs a White Night to save them.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Telsa does running upgrades on their models over time.  I don't see a need for a full Model-S replacement, but they could do a refresh on it... give it a new interior that sort of thing.  

    Yes. Upgrades happen frequently. Its awesome how this is a thing!

    But, Im almost certain that others will follow that same path and copy Tesla with the internet/WI-FI/Windows style computer upgrades.

    So...

    The Model S is still a sexy car and the refresh they did on it last year to bring it to the new face of Tesla styling ala  Model X and 3 just makes the car sexier and keeps it fresh and relevant!

    But like an iPhone, they may need a complete overhaul of the bodyshell to be able to stay current!

    Henri Ford reluctantly changed his Model T after 2 decades and he needed to, somehow 2017 is not like 1917....we are a fickle society today where we need change often in regards to our toys because eventually, all cars will upgrade themselves via Wi-Fi and its back to square 1...

    The newest, shiniest toy gets the praises and the sales!

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    41 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    OK.. I agree on the manufacturing process, but when I speak of the Astra.. for Pontiac (we aren't talking Chevy).. the so-called "excitement division".. I was speaking of the VXR/OPC editions

    That was never the Vibe's purpose.  It was meant to be an outdoorsy small crossover kinda along the lines of a Subaru Impreza Outback. Excitement can be more than just speed and handling.  Keep in mind some of the other products at Pontiac at the time, the Aztek (for all its warts, was actually a surprisingly good off-roader for being a chopped up mini-van, and offered a tent option, and had one of the best AWD systems offered at the time), and the cladded Montana, which also offered AWD. 

    Pontiac was attempting to offer two forms off excitement in those days.... on-road performance or off-road adventure.  As a strategy, I could see it working.  It was in the execution where they failed. 

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    27 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    well, what is worrying me is that Musk did say that a Model S replacement is not in the works.

    But he did go on record saying that an urban pick-up truck is on its way.

    And he did say that Model 3 suitors are confusing the model as a Model S upgrade...

    Whether that last part is true or what Balthy and Fappy suggested is more on point, the end result does NOT bode well for the Model S as I fear it will be left to rot on the vine...

     

    Musk could already be thinking of more main stream as he starts his plan for a white night to buy Tesla.

    I think there is great value in an EV Pickup, but leaving the S to rot and not have an update is a big miss with so many EV auto company startups going after the 100K EV auto purchase crowd.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    25 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Telsa does running upgrades on their models over time.  I don't see a need for a full Model-S replacement, but they could do a refresh on it... give it a new interior that sort of thing.  

    Those only go so far. Tesla was awesome when first out, but the style is very dated and bland and Tesla needs to bring some excitement back to the body of the Tesla S.

    Time for Tesla S to go 2.0 version with a body refresh on top of an interior major update.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    43 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Musk could already be thinking of more main stream as he starts his plan for a white night to buy Tesla.

    I think there is great value in an EV Pickup, but leaving the S to rot and not have an update is a big miss with so many EV auto company startups going after the 100K EV auto purchase crowd.

    I don't see Musk's ego allowing him to give up control of Tesla or SpaceX or SolarCity (which is now part of Tesla anyway).  He's not going to sell... and he's got the cash to push forward with more investment if he wants to.   Plus, for now... he's the darling of the stock market and can issue more stock if he wants to. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I don't see Musk's ego allowing him to give up control of Tesla or SpaceX or SolarCity (which is now part of Tesla anyway).  He's not going to sell... and he's got the cash to push forward with more investment if he wants to.   Plus, for now... he's the darling of the stock market and can issue more stock if he wants to. 

    Someone asked me if I thought Tesla was a smart investment. I said no, over priced and I really do not see it as a smart investment for people with limited sources of cash. Yes for the very wealthy, but not the little guy.

    I truly hope Tesla survives, but I do question if it can.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    One of the original reasons I pushed C&G from just being a forum and into a review site was after I read two articles on C&D.  One where they knocked a Buick Lucerne for its slalom capabilities compared to a BMW..... and another where the Aveo's 0-60 time was being criticized... and at the time it was the least expensive car on the market.  We review cars specifically to avoid dumb comparisons like those.  

    Excellent point.  You have to review cars for intended purpose.  A Lucerne should be reviewed for how well does it haul old folks to bingo.  It isn't a performance car.  It should be compared to handling and ride of an Avalon.  

    For the Continental though, it can't match performance with any other $50-70k luxury car, so it better smoke them in interior and it does not.  To comment on your later post, I'll give you that Continental better lines up price wise with CTS, G80 and A6, S90 also, but I think the only one it beats in that group is G80, it is maybe equal to a CTS, it isn't better than the A6 which is old.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Excellent point.  You have to review cars for intended purpose.  A Lucerne should be reviewed for how well does it haul old folks to bingo.  It isn't a performance car.  It should be compared to handling and ride of an Avalon.  

    For the Continental though, it can't match performance with any other $50-70k luxury car, so it better smoke them in interior and it does not.  To comment on your later post, I'll give you that Continental better lines up price wise with CTS, G80 and A6, S90 also, but I think the only one it beats in that group is G80, it is maybe equal to a CTS, it isn't better than the A6 which is old.

    A base A6 is rather spartan inside. I'd put the Continental slightly higher than the CTS right now... primarily because of the CTS's center stack and the capacitive touch controls.  For comfort concerned drivers, that better interior goes to the Continental over the CTS hands down.

    You keep looking at the Continental as a $50k luxury car.... it's not.  It bases at $44k.  That's mid-range C-Class over at Benz, and even if you bump it up to $53k looking at E-Class you're in a taxi-cab that you can't even plug your iPhone into with spending an extra $45 for a cable. $53k gets an AWD Turbo V6 Continental with leather compared to a RWD Turbo-4 E-Class with plastic seats.  If you have $53k in your pocket to spend... and not a penny more... the Continental gives you more performance and more luxury.  Period. 

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The models you should have chosen were CTS, G80, and A6.  Compared to those, the Continental is quite competitive. 

    Like the 300 the Conti is really starting to get under my skin a bit. Not so sure Ford doesn't have a winner here.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A base A6 is rather spartan inside. I'd put the Continental slightly higher than the CTS right now... primarily because of the CTS's center stack and the capacitive touch controls.  For comfort concerned drivers, that better interior goes to the Continental over the CTS hands down.

    You keep looking at the Continental as a $50k luxury car.... it's not.  It bases at $44k.  That's mid-range C-Class over at Benz, and even if you bump it up to $53k looking at E-Class you're in a taxi-cab that you can't even plug your iPhone into with spending an extra $45 for a cable. $53k gets an AWD Turbo V6 Continental with leather compared to a RWD Turbo-4 E-Class with plastic seats.  If you have $53k in your pocket to spend... and not a penny more... the Continental gives you more performance and more luxury.  Period. 

    A C-class has a better interior than a Continental though, unless you are talking rear seat room.  CTS does have a bad center stack, Continental has a bit more in luxury than CTS, but CTS has it in chassis and transmission, call the engines a tie without the V.  You can run a Continental up to $70k, that is a well equipped E-class.  I'd still take the A6 which is from 2012 I think over a Continental interior.  

    Plus the Fusion underpinnings and 6-speed auto from 2010 are huge down grades to the Continental.  With how little they spent on the mechanicals, the Continental should have an A8 level interior because they $25k sedan under pinnings.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Like the 300 the Conti is really starting to get under my skin a bit. Not so sure Ford doesn't have a winner here.

    They don't, the 400 hp twin turbo V6 does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.   The base V6 must be lethargic.   The E-class V6 does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.  Gets better gas mileage too.  And I know, the Continental isn't about performance, it is about "quiet luxury"  but an E-class is quieter than it (63 DBA at 70 mph vs 67 in the Lincoln), and has air suspension.  Give the Continental another year and it will be a fleet car like the MKS or Town Car were.  The Continental should be priced like a Lexus ES, more like $38k base and $55k for a loaded 400 hp Black Label with free maintenance.  Then maybe it is a worthwhile buy.

    • Disagree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    They don't, the 400 hp twin turbo V6 does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.   The base V6 must be lethargic.   The E-class V6 does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.  Gets better gas mileage too.  And I know, the Continental isn't about performance, it is about "quiet luxury"  but an E-class is quieter than it (63 DBA at 70 mph vs 67 in the Lincoln), and has air suspension.  Give the Continental another year and it will be a fleet car like the MKS or Town Car were.  The Continental should be priced like a Lexus ES, more like $38k base and $55k for a loaded 400 hp Black Label with free maintenance.  Then maybe it is a worthwhile buy.

    It is gaining market share quite nicely actually.

    6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    A base A6 is rather spartan inside. I'd put the Continental slightly higher than the CTS right now... primarily because of the CTS's center stack and the capacitive touch controls.  For comfort concerned drivers, that better interior goes to the Continental over the CTS hands down.

    You keep looking at the Continental as a $50k luxury car.... it's not.  It bases at $44k.  That's mid-range C-Class over at Benz, and even if you bump it up to $53k looking at E-Class you're in a taxi-cab that you can't even plug your iPhone into with spending an extra $45 for a cable. $53k gets an AWD Turbo V6 Continental with leather compared to a RWD Turbo-4 E-Class with plastic seats.  If you have $53k in your pocket to spend... and not a penny more... the Continental gives you more performance and more luxury.  Period. 

    And it is actually a little bit more unique.  Hate to say this, but given the choice I might choose the Lincoln over the Benz.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    A C-class has a better interior than a Continental though, unless you are talking rear seat room.  CTS does have a bad center stack, Continental has a bit more in luxury than CTS, but CTS has it in chassis and transmission, call the engines a tie without the V.  You can run a Continental up to $70k, that is a well equipped E-class.  I'd still take the A6 which is from 2012 I think over a Continental interior.  

    Plus the Fusion underpinnings and 6-speed auto from 2010 are huge down grades to the Continental.  With how little they spent on the mechanicals, the Continental should have an A8 level interior because they $25k sedan under pinnings.

     

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    They don't, the 400 hp twin turbo V6 does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.   The base V6 must be lethargic.   The E-class V6 does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.  Gets better gas mileage too.  And I know, the Continental isn't about performance, it is about "quiet luxury"  but an E-class is quieter than it (63 DBA at 70 mph vs 67 in the Lincoln), and has air suspension.  Give the Continental another year and it will be a fleet car like the MKS or Town Car were.  The Continental should be priced like a Lexus ES, more like $38k base and $55k for a loaded 400 hp Black Label with free maintenance.  Then maybe it is a worthwhile buy.

    No one buying comfort cruisers cases about the 0-60 as long as it is sufficient.... anything under 6.0 is more than enough.

    The C-Class is just too small for it's price to be a comfort cruiser.  Someone looking for a Continental size car wouldn't give the C-Class a second glance. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    25 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     

    No one buying comfort cruisers cases about the 0-60 as long as it is sufficient.... anything under 6.0 is more than enough.

    The C-Class is just too small for it's price to be a comfort cruiser.  Someone looking for a Continental size car wouldn't give the C-Class a second glance. 

    Agreed, if someone wants a large car they don't going to buy an A4 or C-class.  But the Continental is supposed to sell based on interior, ride quality and being quiet.  It isn't that quite and it rides on a Fusion chassis.  So the interior better be amazing, and it isn't.  The XTS is just as nice and well made as a Continental, and the XTS is dated and has one wheel in the grave.

    Edited by smk4565
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Like Mercedes, Ford utilizes global platforms for their cars. You keep saying 'Fusion chassis' but the CD4 platform underpins numerous Ford & Lincoln cars, CUVs and SUVs. Long utilized by domestic makes and just recently, copied by the Germans as 'the wave of the future'.

    The A6 interior is an aesthetic hot mess- it has FOUR different shaped vents in the dash. A schizophrenic's comfort zone is every other man's visual disaster. Besides, half of the audi lineup uses VW engines (2.0T). Hard pass on audi.

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Agreed, if someone wants a large car they don't going to buy an A4 or C-class.  But the Continental is supposed to sell based on interior, ride quality and being quiet.  It isn't that quite and it rides on a Fusion chassis.  So the interior better be amazing, and it isn't.  The XTS is just as nice and well made as a Continental, and the XTS is dated and has one wheel in the grave.

    Now you're just making stuff up to knock the Americans. I like the XTS a lot, you know that, but I'm still willing to concede that the Continental has a better interior.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    33 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Now you're just making stuff up to knock the Americans. I like the XTS a lot, you know that, but I'm still willing to concede that the Continental has a better interior.

    The whole one brand wonder way of. thinking wears old rather rápidly!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'd like it if Lincoln made a great Continental but they didn't.  The last Lincoln product that was a hit was the Navigator in 1998 and then fumbled that after about 5 years and haven't done anything since.  

    So back to Tesla this is a reason I think they will surpass Lincoln around 2020, or when ever Tesla gets their 2nd SUV out.  Once they have 2 sedans and 2 SUV they will beat Lincoln and never look back.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 2017-05-04 at 8:28 PM, balthazar said:

    I want to know why I haven't heard complaints about the Model S's door handles- the metal face of them is usually quite wavy and being chrome; quite noticeable.

     

    On 2017-05-04 at 8:38 PM, oldshurst442 said:

    I will take a look at my partner's Model S to see if this phenomenon is present on his car. I will report on Saturday or Sunday.

    I never noticed anything and he never told me about it.

    I took a look at the door handles today and no such waving or warping or whatever on his P85D.

    I asked him about it and the only anomaly he had on them was a recall.

    He told me that on some Model S' they wouldnt slide open....not on his though!

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Similar Content

  • Posts

    • ^^^  I think the last pic is an AI generated picture.    YUCK!!! I mean, if it is one, its a GREAT image, the technology is both awesome and scary. Very real. But fake...and that is the yuck part of it all.  The fakeness.  I like REALITY.  
    • I became a hater when I realized Toyota is just another same ole same ole corporate greed company like any other and when I realized that they had sheeple followers that they had brainwashed thinking that Toyota can never do any harm.  It wasnt a right away hatred either.  It took time. I first noticed something was off about Toyota with the aforementioned engine sludge thing.  And it took years after that when I started questioning folk that drove Toyotas and then incident after incident happened and yet nobody ever was pissed about Toyota's failures.  It all came to a boiling point with me with the unintended acceleration debacle and had it NOT for Toyota settling out of court of billions of dollars, I myself would have chucked it to stupid drivers, but Toyota plead guilty quietly and paid that tremendous fine.  And it peeved me more to see that AMERICAN media kept that quiet also, but also downplyed the WHOLE thing by them ALSO blaming the American driver coming up with excuse after excuse defending Toyota.  And then I read (call it a consipracy theory if you want to) a report (not on the internet) that Japanese automakers convinced the American buyer to perform their regular maintenance at the dealerships and when their was a problem akin to catastrophic failure with the vehicle, the dealership would repair the problem without the owner knowing about the problem and all that was also subsidized by the Japanese government and the WORST offenders of this were Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Subaru in the 1980s.  Another reason why I dont like this company is that they stopped producing cars for the enthusiast for a little while.  Boring appliance after boring appliance made especially for dumb people that would be better off using public transportation. And in more recent times, better calling an Uber.   I like some cars of theirs. I have pointed this out plenty of times.  No need for me to justify what cars and trucks I like from them.  But you did mention the Lexus LC500 and yeah!  THAT would be one awesome creation.  Id take mine in coupe form though. But if I was doing this car MY way, Id LS/LT swap it.  Nothing crazy done to the engine, just with enough HP and torque to best Lexus' original efforts.  500HP and 500ft/lbs.  In HP, its not much more than what Lexus done, but its the torque figures that make the difference in my make belief dream LC 500. 
    • I actually like the look but at near 9,000 lbs., holy smokes! Instant pot hole maker lol..
    • The LC500 is just a damn fine looking car, regardless of who makes it. Lexus mucks up a lot of exteriors (and not just with the "predator" grill) but the LC500 is not one of them.   I feel you on that. A year ago, it was my right hip (post surgery) and I was doing the same thing as you for a few weeks lol. Rest and recover.
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search