Rumorpile: What To Expect In Scion's Lineup

..erm... that's it?

The Auris (a variant of which has already been sold in the States over at Lexus) and a rebadged Mazda 2 sedan.... while they send their one vehicle that they are especially known for to the great toaster graveyard in the sky.....

 

sounds like a winning combination.

Scion, QFT

 

gotta wonder if they shouldn't ditch Scion name. I do like the Auris some though.  It's really the matrix less tall.

 

Auris Yaris what is the sound diff.

It is a wonder they have held on this long!

Toyota has really dated powertrains and a lot of their models seem dated.  I don't get it for a car company that sells so many cars, that they can have stuff that is so old still on market without updates, like the 4-Runner lived on for years past its expiration date, the previous generation Corolla was laughable, etc.

 

Scion has been neglected, I think the FR-S would sell better as a Toyota, and they could just do a mini box like the Kia Soul with a Toyota badge and make the tC the new Celica and ditch the Scion brand all together.  With some youthful models, Toyota wouldn't seem like your grandparents car brand either.

 

 

I think the idea of Scion is good, but they have screwed up the brand from the start.  If their goal is to get younger, urban type buyers, they can do that with the right products.  A rebadged Mazda 2 would give them the entry subcompact, the FR-S needs a turbo and convertible version, the tC needs an update, but the idea of a 2-door sporty coupe with a roomy backseat works, especially with the Cobalt coupe gone, G6 coupe gone, no Focus or Jetta coupe, etc.  The Hyundai Veloster is pretty much the only alternative to the tC.  They need a Golf GTI style hot hatch and a Kia Soul competitor also.  The problem is Toyota makes generic crap with dated engines, so they aren't likely to build a more fun or interesting mini box, or a more fun to drive Golf GTI.  Scion could be the Japanese Pontiac if done right, and a good version of Pontiac, not the rental car Pontiac we had near the end.

Why does Toyota need so many subcompacts?

Well the Yaris should be the only sub-compact, then the Corolla would be their small car.  Chevy has Spark, Sonic and Cruze so they use a 3 car approach.

 

Scion doesn't really need a subcompact, I don't think Toyota should position Scion as just an entry level crap brand, they should make them a sporty/fun brand.  The xB and xD sucked, but most Toyota's lack style, imagination, modern powertrains, excitement, etc.  If they could properly execute some products, Scion could be a solid niche brand.

Why does Toyota even bother with Scion anymore. It is a dead horse.

Yeah, when Pontiac died, Toyota should have pumped money into Scion to make a Grand Am/G6 sort of coupe/sedan that was a little bigger than a Corolla, keep the tC fresh, they could have locked down the compact utility market before the Kia Soul ever arrived, but they missed the boat.  In 10 years the brand has never really taken off.

 

Toyota could just make the next-gen tC the Celica, dump the FR-S name and sell it as the GT86 as they do elsewhere, then add the Auris to the US lineup and you have 3 youth oriented cars under the Toyota name, no need to advertise 2 brands.

Why does Toyota need so many subcompacts?

 

 

Because the Millennial generation is covered in debt and can only afford cheap, sh#4tty cars.

Well the Yaris should be the only sub-compact, then the Corolla would be their small car.  Chevy has Spark, Sonic and Cruze so they use a 3 car approach.

 

Scion doesn't really need a subcompact, I don't think Toyota should position Scion as just an entry level crap brand, they should make them a sporty/fun brand.  The xB and xD sucked, but most Toyota's lack style, imagination, modern powertrains, excitement, etc.  If they could properly execute some products, Scion could be a solid niche brand.

 

There's the Yaris, then there's this coming Mazda 2 re-badge.

 

The Spark is more of an iQ competitor, so really, Toyota is just abandoning the segment.

 

Spark - iQ

Sonic - Yaris - Mazda2 Rebadge - Pruis C

Cruze -Verano - Corolla - Aurius Hatchback - Pruis - Pruis V

Prius is a bit of a different animal, it is a smaller car, but you have people that buy a Prius to make a statement, I think Leonardo DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz both have a Prius.  Scion needs small cars because they are going for young and urban buyers.  The iQ is awful and should be cut, I can see the need for Yaris and Corolla and there is no Corolla coupe, so the tC sort of fills that need.

You are right. I forgot the tC in that list

Prius is a bit of a different animal, it is a smaller car, but you have people that buy a Prius to make a statement, I think Leonardo DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz both have a Prius.  Scion needs small cars because they are going for young and urban buyers.  The iQ is awful and should be cut, I can see the need for Yaris and Corolla and there is no Corolla coupe, so the tC sort of fills that need.

Prius is a joke of a car and terrible in crashes. I would not waste money on this product line and I would especially not waste my family or friends life by putting them into such a lousy car.

 

Prius is a bit of a different animal, it is a smaller car, but you have people that buy a Prius to make a statement, I think Leonardo DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz both have a Prius.  Scion needs small cars because they are going for young and urban buyers.  The iQ is awful and should be cut, I can see the need for Yaris and Corolla and there is no Corolla coupe, so the tC sort of fills that need.

Prius is a joke of a car and terrible in crashes. I would not waste money on this product line and I would especially not waste my family or friends life by putting them into such a lousy car.

 

I think they suck too and the batteries will sit in a landfill somewhere and contaminate the environment anyway.  But the Prius has a loyal customer base, and you can't really compare it to other small cars because there are people that would buy a Prius for the "green image" alone and never think about getting a Cruze or Focus or Jetta.  Toyota not only gets a lot of sales off the Prius, the Prius builds this myth that Toyota is the most fuel efficient car maker when they aren't.

You are right. I forgot the tC in that list

But you can't get a 2-door Dart, Cruze, Focus, Jetta, Mazda3 or Corolla.  Only the Civic and Elantra are available in coupe form; the small coupe market is pretty slim pickings.  Toyota would be foolish to kill the tC, it hardly has any competitors.

But it is Dodge Caliber level of God Awful!

On second thought, after looking at how Scion brand sales are, Toyota should drop the whole brand and bring back the Celica.  Scion only sold 5,500 cars last month, I bet they could sell 5,000 Celicas a month, if they made it look good and gave it a pair of 4-cylinder engines to pick from.  Single people in their 20s that can't afford an expensive car would drop $20k on a Celica if it looked fast and sporty, even if it is slow and crap to drive.

They could simply rebadge the current tC as a Celica, drop the Scion brand, and be ahead financially by not spending the money on marketing a separate brand.

On second thought, after looking at how Scion brand sales are, Toyota should drop the whole brand and bring back the Celica.  Scion only sold 5,500 cars last month, I bet they could sell 5,000 Celicas a month, if they made it look good and gave it a pair of 4-cylinder engines to pick from.  Single people in their 20s that can't afford an expensive car would drop $20k on a Celica if it looked fast and sporty, even if it is slow and crap to drive.

Bingo!

They could simply rebadge the current tC as a Celica, drop the Scion brand, and be ahead financially by not spending the money on marketing a separate brand.

Market the FRS as a Toyota and skip the Celica name. Not enough room in the market for to small coupes.

sure there is. The FR-S is a different kind of car than the tCelica would be. Keep in mind, there are still large swaths of the country that want something sporty but still want FWD for winter.  My tC driving friend is like that... he really wants a BRZ, but the RWD makes him hesitate.

Plus the FR-S is already sold a Toyota GT86 in every other country, it would be cheaper not to market the Scion brand and to not have to rebadge a Toyota to Scion.  I agree with Drew that the GT86 is going to appeal to more hard core sports car drivers and people that want a track car.  The tC/Celica is going to appeal to people that want sporty looking, but easy to drive, good gas mileage, can drive in snow, etc.

 

Having 2 sporty cars with a Toyota badge would make Toyota seem a bit less like a geriatric brand, they save the costs of marketing and running 2 brands also.  A win-win for Toyota.

sure there is. The FR-S is a different kind of car than the tCelica would be. Keep in mind, there are still large swaths of the country that want something sporty but still want FWD for winter.  My tC driving friend is like that... he really wants a BRZ, but the RWD makes him hesitate.

Then they need a product other than the current TC. But honestly, Toyota cannot build a car for every want. The previous Celica was a decent car, but it withered on the vine. Local very busy Toyota dealer only sold one or two Celicas a month.

But seriously, they only need one sporty coupe.

Plus the FR-S is already sold a Toyota GT86 in every other country, it would be cheaper not to market the Scion brand and to not have to rebadge a Toyota to Scion.  I agree with Drew that the GT86 is going to appeal to more hard core sports car drivers and people that want a track car.  The tC/Celica is going to appeal to people that want sporty looking, but easy to drive, good gas mileage, can drive in snow, etc.

 

Having 2 sporty cars with a Toyota badge would make Toyota seem a bit less like a geriatric brand, they save the costs of marketing and running 2 brands also.  A win-win for Toyota.

Toyota pretty much survives on image as a competent geriatric brand. In Canada, Camry is like 27th on the sales list. Passat outsels it. Other than the image as a competent geriatric generic, the brand has little going for it.

sure there is. The FR-S is a different kind of car than the tCelica would be. Keep in mind, there are still large swaths of the country that want something sporty but still want FWD for winter. My tC driving friend is like that... he really wants a BRZ, but the RWD makes him hesitate.

Developing the idea further, GM, Ford, Nissan, Mazda, Chrysler (aside from Fiat) Mercedes's, Audi, Acura,Tesla,KIA, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, et all do not even sell a sporty FWD coupe. And Volkswagen is thinking seriously of making the Golf/GTI four door only. The ST twins from Ford are doing well as four door only.

Other than the beetle, there is no need for a FWD coupe in the NA market. And even the beetle is a niche car from a niche car maker.

Edited August 2, 2014 by A Horse With No Name

I would make the FR-S the new Celica. I am happy to see the Auris may come to the U.S., even if sold as a Scion. I would like to see more C class hatchbacks (and wagons too). The Focus hatchback needs some competition.

I would make the FR-S the new Celica. I am happy to see the Auris may come to the U.S., even if sold as a Scion. I would like to see more C class hatchbacks (and wagons too). The Focus hatchback needs some competition.

Wagons would be fantastic.

The current tC is dated because it is basically the same car they had in 2005-2008.  Toyota lets cars sit on the market too long and doesn't update engines or transmissions often enough.  If they would keep their product fresh then it wouldn't be a problem.  If you kill the Scion brand and put that money into keeping the Yaris, Corolla and Celica (which would be like a Corolla coupe to replace tC) then you could keep those models updated and relevant.

Kill the line off and dedicate the money to improving the design language and passion of Toyota auto's. Rename these auto's under the Toyota lineup and enjoy.

Kill the line off and dedicate the money to improving the design language and passion of Toyota auto's. Rename these auto's under the Toyota lineup and enjoy.

Quoted for truth!