Sales Figure Ticker - September 2015

wow, look at Ford.  GM is doing well too.

Good job to all three from Detroit.

 

 Go 'Merica.

Mustang up ~200% and even Lincoln continues it's double digit climbs.

Should be at 100K for the year.  Not too shabby.  New MKZ and Conti next year should give a healthy boost, as MKS is doing very little for the brand.

New Mustang is wicked nice.

Pretty solid gains from everyone, except Chrysler and Maserati/Fiat.  Not surprised about Maserati/Fiat, those seem rather undesirable.  This is the first time in recent memory that so many brands had double digit gains, that is good news for the industry.

Actually. GM's percentages not as nice as most of the others. ....

This year did not include labor day weekend either, so results compared to last year are better yet.

GM's market share gains in the truck market continue to impress.

Simple fact is, GM makes the best trucks overall.

Wonder how long this can last given the depression over Europe and Asia happening. I have to think next year will be a cool year for auto sales here. I have to think this is people finally replacing auto's from our own depression of 2007 to 2012 and this is just a big bump.

Simple fact is, GM makes the best trucks overall.

 

Most everyone backs away from ocn on this claim.

 

Simple fact is, GM makes the best trucks overall.

 

Most everyone backs away from ocn on this claim.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily say backs away. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Drew Dowdell

I wouldn't say that at all. I think his claims can be backed up pretty strongly. The biggest issue I have with GM trucks is that they don't really push the envelope with small diesels and suspension tech like Ram does. And the Canyonados are even beginning to address that situation. Put it this way: I won't be writing off GM the next time I'm looking for a truck.

I wouldn't say that at all. I think his claims can be backed up pretty strongly. The biggest issue I have with GM trucks is that they don't really push the envelope with small diesels and suspension tech like Ram does. And the Canyonados are even beginning to address that situation. Put it this way: I won't be writing off GM the next time I'm looking for a truck.

Yes but... GM had a half ton, fullsize diesel pickup truck in the late 70's.  They sold compact diesel trucks here in the 70's and early 80's, with the LUV and S-10 diesels.  And they had coil spring rear suspension on their fullsize pickup trucks in the early 60's.

 

GM makes the best trucks.

I heard that September had over an 18 million annual sales rate.  That is huge, double what the industry sold in 2009.

Link: http://www.stangtv.com/news/2015-mustang-sales-continues-to-trample-camaro-challenger/

 

It’s been 11 full months since the 2015 Ford Mustang arrived at dealerships across the country, and for the 11th month in a row the Blue Oval’s remade muscle car has continued to dominate sales charts. With both of its main competitors set to be replaced or retired soon and Ford pimping the 50th anniversary of the Mustang hard, it really isn’t a surprise. The surprise will be if Ford can keep the sales momentum going after GM and Fiat-Chrysler release their new muscle cars into the wild.

According to Torque News, Ford sold 9,456 Mustangs in September, a small drop from August sales but still almost as many sales as both the Camaro and Challenger combined. The General managed to move just 5,426 Camaros in the month of September, and the Dodge Challenger came in third (again) with 4,552 units sold. Both numbers represent a steep drop from August, with the Camaro’s fall more expected given the impending arrival of the all-new 2016 models.

^

Recalling that neither latest gen camaro or challenger when introduced came close to Mustang's recent continued 11 month sales spread, I believe Mustang's sales leadership is a slam dunk -- well into next year, and probably for some time to come.  

Unlike the other two, it's a standalone platform, so it had better sell.

Good thing it nearly sells like having (3) unique pony car platforms though.

The last time it sold in those numbers was also the last time it had a new platform. That was back in 2004.

Once every eleven years is pretty thin gruel for bragging rights.

The last time camaro had such sales lead, sustained for this long, was never.

Steady sales victories over the previous years are just fine. Like I said, it's not like Ford is exactly punctual with doing new Mustangs, so a once every decade and a half sales spurt is ok.

Edited October 12, 2015 by El Kabong

Yeah, but when you are the only one on the block selling them for so long as others threw in the towel....there is slightly less competitive incentive to change, no.

Eh. All I know is that once innovation happens in a segment, the incumbent needs to scramble to catch up. So, as I said, I can live with a once in a blue moon sales spurt.

Now, you want to talk about sales... how 'bout them GM pickups? WOOT

you are in luck then, as I think the sales spurt will continue for many more months.

you are in luck then, as I think the sales spurt will continue for many more months.

At last we agree on something.

...I can't see GM truck sales slowing either.

Yuppers, F series sales are climbing nearly as fast as profit.

 

I imagine the SD will have something to say about both as well.

"Nearly as fast?"

I can live with that too.

Well, it's been a surprisingly pleasant night. You gave GM props for truck sales, and I explained why I'm not concerned about Mustang sales too much.

It's good when things turn out well.

Edited October 12, 2015 by El Kabong

We do hope that new camaro sales are not platform jinxed, such as the ATS.

For an entry level luxury sedan, they have not exactly helped Cadillac with their sales gains issues for many months.

Hey, I wonder if Ford offers the competition discounts, not unlike a familial one, to the competition, when they buy a Ford truck to study how Ford took such a radical lead with technology and aluminum.

 

I think it would be a fair thing to do, which would show good sportsmanship.

no

We do hope that new camaro sales are not platform jinxed, such as the ATS.

For an entry level luxury sedan, they have not exactly helped Cadillac with their sales gains issues for many months.

So... either you believe in jinxes, or you're just using inflammatory language to try and provoke a response.

I'll just notify Admin so they can make that decision for themselves.

You are right, Jinxed might be the wrong word for ATS sales.

 

How about, poor insight.

You are right, Jinxed might be the wrong word for ATS sales.

How about, poor insight.

Jinxed "might be" the wrong word?

So you realize that you're using inflammatory language, but don't really apologize for it.

Did you not read the post about the tighter moderating?

Edited October 12, 2015 by El Kabong

Now. Back on topic.

I am impressed with GM truck sales. Anytime you can introduce a smaller product and it sells like it does without hurting sales of your larger product is cause for celebration.

Anyway,

back to sales discussions, here is Eric's remarks on September sales:

 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Wings4Life

Does Eric work for Ford?

Now. Back on topic.

I am impressed with GM truck sales. Anytime you can introduce a smaller product and it sells like it does without hurting sales of your larger product is cause for celebration.

It's interesting you say that, because that's exactly what ATS did.

It's also interesting that Ford acknowledges that the fast pace of Mustang sales is at a crest now and it will be difficult to maintain the same level of growth.

Agreed on both points.

The Mustang is like most sporty cars, be they pony cars or roadsters or whatnot: a new one always brings interest, and thus sales. For GM fans, the '84 Corvette and '10 Camaro are the bellwethers for this phenomenon. It should also be noted that these were extreme cases: the C4 was the first "new" Corvette on 16 years (and the first new one under the skin in 21!), and the Camaro was coming back from eight years of... well, death. Generally speaking, the more dire straits the outgoing product was in, the better the new one will do, at least initially.

The next trick is to try and retain that initial momentum. On this point everyone has to tip their hats to Mopar, because the Challenger is doing insanely well overall. The reason is because they have offered steady improvements, and those improvements have not come with any loss of affordability. Even the Hellcats, at 70-odd grand in the real world, offer good bang for the buck.

This is why I'm looking forward to seeing the first drive reports on the Alpha Camaro in a day or two (or whenever Jalopnik decides to break the curfew). If it can offer similar performance to the Shelby GT350 in SS trim then I think that Ford will have a problem emulating Chrysler.

 

Now. Back on topic.

I am impressed with GM truck sales. Anytime you can introduce a smaller product and it sells like it does without hurting sales of your larger product is cause for celebration.

It's interesting you say that, because that's exactly what ATS did.

It's also interesting that Ford acknowledges that the fast pace of Mustang sales is at a crest now and it will be difficult to maintain the same level of growth.

 

 

 

Where exactly did Ford 'acknowledge' this?

Not in this article anyway.

 

That said, it will certainly be a challenge to maintain this growth, but it does lead now and certainly for the near term.  But I think maintaining the sales crown should be very achievable and probable, given the price increases the competition starts with.

Agreed on both points.

The Mustang is like most sporty cars, be they pony cars or roadsters or whatnot: a new one always brings interest, and thus sales. For GM fans, the '84 Corvette and '10 Camaro are the bellwethers for this phenomenon. It should also be noted that these were extreme cases: the C4 was the first "new" Corvette on 16 years (and the first new one under the skin in 21!), and the Camaro was coming back from eight years of... well, death. Generally speaking, the more dire straits the outgoing product was in, the better the new one will do, at least initially.

The next trick is to try and retain that initial momentum. On this point everyone has to tip their hats to Mopar, because the Challenger is doing insanely well overall. The reason is because they have offered steady improvements, and those improvements have not come with any loss of affordability. Even the Hellcats, at 70-odd grand in the real world, offer good bang for the buck.

This is why I'm looking forward to seeing the first drive reports on the Alpha Camaro in a day or two (or whenever Jalopnik decides to break the curfew). If it can offer similar performance to the Shelby GT350 in SS trim then I think that Ford will have a problem emulating Chrysler.

 

 

Wait,

you just concluded that if a 'tracked-out' SS runs close to a GT-350....which it now within price reach of....then Ford will have problems emulating Chrysler.

 

I don't follow that logic at all.

Agreed on both points.

The Mustang is like most sporty cars, be they pony cars or roadsters or whatnot: a new one always brings interest, and thus sales. For GM fans, the '84 Corvette and '10 Camaro are the bellwethers for this phenomenon. It should also be noted that these were extreme cases: the C4 was the first "new" Corvette on 16 years (and the first new one under the skin in 21!), and the Camaro was coming back from eight years of... well, death. Generally speaking, the more dire straits the outgoing product was in, the better the new one will do, at least initially.

The next trick is to try and retain that initial momentum. On this point everyone has to tip their hats to Mopar, because the Challenger is doing insanely well overall. The reason is because they have offered steady improvements, and those improvements have not come with any loss of affordability. Even the Hellcats, at 70-odd grand in the real world, offer good bang for the buck.

This is why I'm looking forward to seeing the first drive reports on the Alpha Camaro in a day or two (or whenever Jalopnik decides to break the curfew). If it can offer similar performance to the Shelby GT350 in SS trim then I think that Ford will have a problem emulating Chrysler.

Wait,

you just concluded that if a 'tracked-out' SS runs close to a GT-350....which it now within price reach of....then Ford will have problems emulating Chrysler.

I don't follow that logic at all.

What are you talking about???

GM announced that the SS would start at 37 large. The Shelby will start at 49.

That's 12 grand difference!

Now, add the Track Pack to the Shelby and it goes into the mid fifties. For arguments sake, wel will assume that a magnetic ride Camaro will cost as much (probably not, but I will play nice).

Still at least 12 grand's difference on the price tag.

All I know is that if there ain't 12 grand's worth of difference on the street, strip, and track then Dearborn will have a problem.

Edited October 14, 2015 by El Kabong

Even if they run identical lap times on every track they get run on I don't think a single sole will worry about GT350 sales.

I presume GM has enough intelligence NOT to bundle track level hardware on the SS, thus, it will need some track level hardware to get anywhere near the much more powerful Shelby.  Hence my remark about closing the price gap.  Base Shelby should have no problem running away from SS.  Mopar has nothing to compare here, so that topic is moot, hence my other point.

I presume GM has enough intelligence NOT to bundle track level hardware on the SS, thus, it will need some track level hardware to get anywhere near the much more powerful Shelby. Hence my remark about closing the price gap. Base Shelby should have no problem running away from SS. Mopar has nothing to compare here, so that topic is moot, hence my other point.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But after driving the "much more powerful" Shelby on street and Laguna Seca, C/D estimated (no doubt via sneakiness and timing equipment) that it would hit 60 in 3.7-3.8 seconds (as you will see in the magazine, should you care to look). Similarly, they peg the quarter-mile times and traps at roughly Caddy ATS-V numbers. Thing is, the ATS-V's engine and driveline numbers (and the car's weight) are pretty similar for that of the Camaro SS... which is going to be lighter and torquier than the Shelby. Also, GM claims 0-60 in four flat for the eight-speed, and their numbers will probably be a bit conservative.

Bottom Line: they may well be saying "ruh-roh" in Dearborn come Oct. 16 or so. And if not, perhaps they should be.

Edited October 14, 2015 by El Kabong

Even if they run identical lap times on every track they get run on I don't think a single sole will worry about GT350 sales.

But elsewhere you were the guy complaining about the Camaro being overpriced for the driveline it offers. Do you really think that if the Shelby cannot decisively put a run-of-the-mill SS back on the truck that people will overlook it?

And again, for possibly as much as an extra TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS?

Sorry, man. That dog don't hunt.

 

I presume GM has enough intelligence NOT to bundle track level hardware on the SS, thus, it will need some track level hardware to get anywhere near the much more powerful Shelby. Hence my remark about closing the price gap. Base Shelby should have no problem running away from SS. Mopar has nothing to compare here, so that topic is moot, hence my other point.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But after driving the "much more powerful" Shelby on street and Laguna Seca, C/D estimated (no doubt via sneakiness and timing equipment) that it would hit 60 in 3.7-3.8 seconds (as you will see in the magazine, should you care to look). Similarly, they peg the quarter-mile times and traps at roughly Caddy ATS-V numbers. Thing is, the ATS-V's engine and driveline numbers (and the car's weight) are pretty similar for that of the Camaro SS... which is going to be lighter and torquier than the Shelby. Also, GM claims 0-60 in four flat for the eight-speed, and their numbers will probably be a bit conservative.

Bottom Line: they may well be saying "ruh-roh" in Dearborn come Oct. 16 or so. And if not, perhaps they should be.

 

So, are you looking at track times or straight line times? I think everybody and their brother know the GT350 is designed around a road course and not a drag strip.

 

I'm kind of mind boggled by how you think an SS will compete or beat the GT350 in objective categories. Once they pump out a 1LE or some form of handling package, no doubt. It just isn't adding up the way they both stand today. The SS will be torquier which will give it great feel for driving daily but if you're $h!tin' n gettin' you're only utilizing that torque in first gear, after that you're sitting above 5-6000rpm and it means nothing as you're in your horsepower band.

yeah, strange how the topic switched to 1/4 mile times.

Eh. All I know is that once innovation happens in a segment, the incumbent needs to scramble to catch up. So, as I said, I can live with a once in a blue moon sales spurt.

Why are you feeding him (as evidenced by his lack of knowledge as to why production stopped on the previous F bodies in the first place)?

Edited October 14, 2015 by surreal1272

Ccap: Once again, read the article.

C/D have already commented on both the slower steering and more conservative tires on the GT350 compared to, say, the outgoing Z/28. So, if you have a 3700 pound car that has real-world tires, it ain't gonna be a Z/28 killer, though it'll still probably be a nice track machine. More likely it'll be a ZL1-focused style of performance, with a peakier engine.

And, as has already been pointed out, it'll cost a lot more.

To keep this sales-focused: pumping up prices without pumping up performance is probably not going to work, if Mopar and GM are any examples to go by.

yeah, strange how the topic switched to 1/4 mile times.

And price. Don't forget the PRICE DIFFERENCE.

It's a holistic thing, is what I'm saying. Especially as it pertains to sales.

Edited October 14, 2015 by El Kabong