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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Sales Figure Ticker: October 2017

      Who was tricked and who got treats?

    Volkswagen of America - Up 11.9% (27,732 Vehicles Sold This Month, 280,188 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volvo Cars of North America, LLC - Up 10.5% (7,008 Vehicles Sold This Month, 63,974 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Audi of America - Up 9.6% (19,425 Vehicles Sold This Month, 180,339 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Nissan Group - Up 8.4% (123,012 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,319,253 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ford Motor Company - Up 6.2% (200,436 Vehicles Sold This Month, 2,133,895 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Porsche Cars North America, Inc. - Up 4.6% (4,715 Vehicles Sold This Month, 45,952 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Toyota Motor North America - Up 1.1% (188,434 Vehicles Sold This Month, 2,019,913 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    American Honda Motor Co. - Up 0.9% (127,353 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,358,956 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Subaru of America, Inc. - Up 0.5% (54,045 Vehicles Sold This Month, 532,893 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mercedes-Benz USA - Down 0.8% (31,541 Vehicles Sold This Month, 301,653 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    General Motors Co. - Down 2.2% (252,813 Vehicles Sold This Month, 2,448,315 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mitsubishi Motors North America - Down 3.4% (7,831 Vehicles Sold This Month, 86,576 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jaguar Land Rover North America - Down 4% (8,368 Vehicles Sold This Month, 93,077 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mazda North American Operations - Down 8.4% (20,811 Vehicles Sold This Month, 241,108 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Kia Motors America - Down 9.4% (44,397 Vehicles Sold This Month, 502,327 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Maserati North America, Inc. - Down 12.6% (1,140 Vehicles Sold This Month, 11,129 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    FCA US LLC - Down 13% (153,373 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,732,511 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Hyundai Motor America - Down 15.2% (53,010 Vehicles Sold This Month, 564,750 Vehicles Sold This Year)


    BMW Group U.S. - 

    Brands:
    Acura - Down 1.3% (12,698 Vehicles Sold This Month, 126,824 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Alfa Romeo - Up 5,139% (1,205 Vehicles Sold This Month, 8,557 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Audi - Up 9.6% (19,425 Vehicles Sold This Month, 180,339 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    BMW - 
    Buick - Down 4.5% (19,142 Vehicles Sold This Month, 178,972 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Cadillac - Down 0.1% (13,931 Vehicles Sold This Month, 127,777 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Chevrolet - Down 3.8% (175,110 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,691,302 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Chrysler - Down 22% (11,018 Vehicles Sold This Month, 154,827 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Dodge - Down 41% (24,476 Vehicles Sold This Month, 390,266 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Fiat - Down 33% (1,769 Vehicles Sold This Month, 23,021 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ford - Up 6.6% (191,527 Vehicles Sold This Month, 2,042,264 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Genesis - Up 49% (1,786 Vehicles Sold This Month, 16,888 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    GMC - Up 4.6% (44,630 Vehicles Sold This Month, 450,264 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Honda - Up 1.2% (114,655 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,232,132 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Hyundai - Down 16.4% (51,224 Vehicles Sold This Month, 547,862 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Infiniti - Down 8.1% (10,296 Vehicles Sold This Month, 124,010 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jaguar - Down 10% (2,891 Vehicles Sold This Month, 33,119 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Jeep - Down 3% (67,074 Vehicles Sold This Month, 689,316 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Kia - Down 9.4% (44,397 Vehicles Sold This Month, 502,327 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Land Rover - Down 1% (5,477 Vehicles Sold This Month, 59,958 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Lexus - Down 7.7% (22,894 Vehicles Sold This Month, 242,553 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Lincoln - Down 1.8% (8,909 Vehicles Sold This Month, 91,631 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Maserati - Down 12.6% (1,140 Vehicles Sold This Month, 11,129 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mazda - Down 8.4% (20,811 Vehicles Sold This Month, 241,108 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Mercedes-Benz - Up 0.1% (31,401 Vehicles Sold This Month, 298,878 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    MINI - 
    Mitsubishi - Down 3.4% (7,831 Vehicles Sold This Month, 86,576 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Nissan - Up 10.2% (112,716 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,195,243 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Porsche - Up 4.6% (4,715 Vehicles Sold This Month, 45,952 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Ram Trucks - Down 3% (47,831 Vehicles Sold This Month, 466,524 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Smart - Down 66.5% (140 Vehicles Sold This Month, 2,775 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Subaru - Up 0.5% (54,045 Vehicles Sold This Month, 532,893 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Toyota - Up 2.5% (165,540 Vehicles Sold This Month, 1,777,360 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volkswagen - Up 11.9% (27,732 Vehicles Sold This Month, 280,188 Vehicles Sold This Year)
    Volvo - Up 10.5% (7,008 Vehicles Sold This Month, 63,974 Vehicles Sold This Year)

    *Mercedes-Benz's sales numbers include Mercedes-Benz vans.

    Edited by William Maley

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    William Maley
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I thought it said Ram posted its best October ever..but it's down on the month? 

    Best October for pickup trucks. ProMaster sales being down for the month are why Ram as a whole saw a drop in October.

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    ccap41
    13 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    Best October for pickup trucks. ProMaster sales being down for the month are why Ram as a whole saw a drop in October.

    Ahhhh Makes sense. Thanks! 

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    A Horse With No Name
    7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Another strong month from FCA.  Good thing Alfa was up 5000%

    Strong like rotten fish are strong.

    6 hours ago, dfelt said:

    One can clearly see the auto recession is starting with all the down product lines.

    Very sadly, you would be correct.

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    balthazar

    Bolt moves up into the #2 sales spot for the year to date.

    Screen Shot 2017-11-01 at 8.53.39 PM.png

    Looks like the Model 3 so-called 'bottlenecks' also torpedo'd the Model S & X. I thought their big jumps for September were fishy. Musk has finally backed the '5000 Model 3's per week by December'... all the way back to the end of Q1 2018. We'll see.

    Edited by balthazar
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    A Horse With No Name
    10 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Bolt moves up into the #2 sales spot for the year to date.

    Screen Shot 2017-11-01 at 8.53.39 PM.png

    Looks like the Model 3 so-called 'bottlenecks' also torpedo'd the Model S & X. I thought their big jumps for September were fishy. Musk has finally backed the '5000 Model 3's per week by December'... all the way back to the end of Q1 2018. We'll see.

    The whole Tesla thing will implode and Musk will look like a fool.

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    Stew
    15 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Strong like rotten fish are strong.

    Very sadly, you would be correct.

    You realize they had big sellers last year they only have remnants on the lot for right now, right?  Caravan and Patriot and the main main culprits for the sales drop sinc, ya know, they are both not being built any longer and have no replacements.  Same with the 200 and Dart.  And yes, sales were not so  surprisingly down across the board.  for a lot of makers and some were only up because they have added additional products. 

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    surreal1272
    36 minutes ago, Stew said:

    You realize they had big sellers last year they only have remnants on the lot for right now, right?  Caravan and Patriot and the main main culprits for the sales drop sinc, ya know, they are both not being built any longer and have no replacements.  Same with the 200 and Dart.  And yes, sales were not so  surprisingly down across the board.  for a lot of makers and some were only up because they have added additional products. 

    All manufacturers have models on there lists that are no longer in production (like the Verano and the SRX for GM). Down is down. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    Stew
    21 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    All manufacturers have models on there lists that are no longer in production (like the Verano and the SRX for GM). Down is down. 

    Yes, just saying there are reasons not related to gloom and doom.  Also, FCA's fleet sales are down 43%.

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    ccap41
    2 hours ago, Stew said:

    for a lot of makers and some were only up because they have added additional products. 

    Exactly.. stagnant, stale, FCA... What was the last NEW product they brought out?  Everything is just replacing what they have that's old like the Compass, Pacifica, and Wrangler.

    200 was new, FAILED.

    Dart was new, FAILED. 

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    surreal1272
    1 hour ago, Stew said:

    Yes, just saying there are reasons not related to gloom and doom.  Also, FCA's fleet sales are down 43%.

    Everyone reduces fleet sales at the end of the year and if everyone has outgoing or no longer in production models yet only FCA is taking a bigger hit, then it’s a problem with FCA. Example? GM YTD sales are down 0.9% while FCA is down 8%. FCA clearly has a bigger problem here and all the excuses in the world don’t change that fact. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    ccap41
    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    All manufacturers have models on there lists that are no longer in production

    Do you know if the E Series is still actually produced by Ford or i they're just old as dirt left overs sitting on some random lots or what the deal is with those? 

    @Drew Dowdell Do you know this answer? 

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    Stew
    1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

    Everyone reduces fleet sales at the end of the year and if everyone has outgoing or no longer in production models yet only FCA is taking a bigger hit, then it’s a problem with FCA. 

    That is for the year  I suggest you go into the forum and read the FCA part there.

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    surreal1272
    Just now, Stew said:

    That is for the year  I suggest you go into the forum and read the FCA part there.

    Reread my post that I just edited. GM has also greatly reduced fleet sales and their YTD drop is not as severe as FCA. 

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    Stew
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Exactly.. stagnant, stale, FCA... What was the last NEW product they brought out?  Everything is just replacing what they have that's old like the Compass, Pacifica, and Wrangler.

    200 was new, FAILED.

    Dart was new, FAILED. 

    Not a lot of cars are the successes they once were.  the Giulia and Stelvio did not replace older vehicles, neither did he Renegade or the various vans in ram really. 

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    surreal1272
    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Do you know if the E Series is still actually produced by Ford or i they're just old as dirt left overs sitting on some random lots or what the deal is with those? 

    @Drew Dowdell Do you know this answer? 

    Since 2015, all E Series sales have been pretty much just stripped chassis and can cutaway models. Drew probably knows better than I do though. 

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    Stew
    Just now, surreal1272 said:

    Reread my post that I just edited. GM has also greatly reduced fleet sales and their YTD drop is not as severe as FCA. 

    And they haven't lost vehicles without some kind of replacement.  Buick lost the Verano, but has gained the Envision for example which is an SUV and should sell better than the verano, though the sales numbers weren't that great for it last month.  I wonder if it people's opinion of chinese made products causing that?

    Just now, surreal1272 said:

    Since 2015, all E Series sales have been pretty much just stripped chassis and can cutaway models. Drew probably knows better than I do though. 

    I am just now seeing some local places switching over to the Transit.  E Series has a long and proven record here in the states. 

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    surreal1272
    2 minutes ago, Stew said:

    And they haven't lost vehicles without some kind of replacement.  Buick lost the Verano, but has gained the Envision for example which is an SUV and should sell better than the verano, though the sales numbers weren't that great for it last month.  I wonder if it people's opinion of chinese made products causing that?

    Fallacy argument and it only highlights the model deficiencies going on at FCA. 

     

    The Envision, which isnt exactly hurting right now, suffers from a bland design more than from the source of its assembly. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    Stew
    4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Fallacy argument and it only highlights the model deficiencies going on at FCA. 

     

    The Envision, which isnt exactly hurting right now, suffers from a bland design more than from the source of its assembly. 

    It was simply speculation and sales were similar to the aging Journey.  I think they look decent.  Big spoilers and sporty cues are not the main things people are looking for in mommy-mobiles. 

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    surreal1272
    5 minutes ago, Stew said:

    It was simply speculation and sales were similar to the aging Journey.  I think they look decent.  Big spoilers and sporty cues are not the main things people are looking for in mommy-mobiles. 

    True but there are fresher designs out there so why you would bring up things like spoilers is just silly. For the record, there are plenty of folks who do like the sportier cues though. 

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    Stew
    21 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Everyone reduces fleet sales at the end of the year and if everyone has outgoing or no longer in production models yet only FCA is taking a bigger hit, then it’s a problem with FCA. Example? GM YTD sales are down 0.9% while FCA is down 8%. FCA clearly has a bigger problem here and all the excuses in the world don’t change that fact. 

    You realize both the Caravan and Patriot generally sold around 10k a year EACH, right?  You are trying to distort the facts.  GM has not actually lost models, FCA has, big difference. 

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    ccap41
    5 minutes ago, Stew said:

    Not a lot of cars are the successes they once were.  the Giulia and Stelvio did not replace older vehicles, neither did he Renegade or the various vans in ram really. 

    I forgot about the Alfas, good point. That Guilia is pretty. Renegade is one as well but those vans aren't really new.. Hasn't Ram/Dodge always had work vans? 

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    Stew
    9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    True but there are fresher designs out there so why you would bring up things like spoilers is just silly. For the record, there are plenty of folks who do like the sportier cues though. 

    Not on a Buick ;)

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    ccap41
    24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Since 2015, all E Series sales have been pretty much just stripped chassis and can cutaway models. Drew probably knows better than I do though. 

    Yeah they're definitely work-only vans. I just wasn't sure if there was just that much overproduced at the time or if they actually still produce these new sales. 

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    Stew
    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    I forgot about the Alfas, good point. That Guilia is pretty. Renegade is one as well but those vans aren't really new.. Hasn't Ram/Dodge always had work vans? 

    Not as many.  I don't think.  I know they had a fullsize, but they went a while wihout one after the split with Daimler, a few years i believe.  For a while they had no vans, and then just the Caravan based Cargo Van.  Ram does need to branch out though.  They really need a midsize truck. 

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    Drew Dowdell

    E-series is still sold only in chassis cab and cut cab. no end date set.

    The Renegade, though smaller than the Patriot, took the place of the Patriot in the Jeep lineup at the same price point. The Compass is above it. Jeep didn't really lose any models, they just had overlap of an outgoing and incoming model at the same time that gave it the appearance of a lost model.   Five years ago the lineup was Patriot, Compass, Liberty, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  Today it is Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  5 then, 5 now.

    The Envision is substantially more expensive than a Verano. There is zero point in comparing sales. They are also only building so many of them for the U.S. due to the distance of the production line and popularity in China.   

    The Dart and 200 were compromised vehicles using older platforms. While neither of them were bad vehicles, they weren't competitive in their respective markets.  Chrysler also made the mistake of trying to capture the low end of the market with the 200... they should have made it a Regal equivalent and priced it accordingly.  Build a new avenger off the same platform for the low end if need be.  

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    ccap41
    9 minutes ago, Stew said:

    You realize both the Caravan and Patriot generally sold around 10k a year EACH, right?  You are trying to distort the facts.  GM has not actually lost models, FCA has, big difference. 

    That's not GM's fault that FCA lost products to sell. Or Ford's or Toyota's... 

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    Stew
    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    Yeah they're definitely work-only vans. I just wasn't sure if there was just that much overproduced at the time or if they actually still produce these new sales. 

    They are still building the chassis cab, you can price them out as 18 models on the Ford website, looks like they killed the E-Series van off though. 

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    surreal1272
    9 minutes ago, Stew said:

    You realize both the Caravan and Patriot generally sold around 10k a year EACH, right?  You are trying to distort the facts.  GM has not actually lost models, FCA has, big difference. 

    Yes they have. It has already been pointed out and last time I checked FCA added models as well, namely Alfa but hey just keep ignoring the facts becuase of valid criticism of FCA. This a broken record at this point and I’m going to keep arguing with you over it. The facts are there and you will always continue to ignore them. 

    2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    E-series is still sold only in chassis cab and cut cab. no end date set.

    The Renegade, though smaller than the Patriot, took the place of the Patriot in the Jeep lineup at the same price point. The Compass is above it. Jeep didn't really lose any models, they just had overlap of an outgoing and incoming model at the same time that gave it the appearance of a lost model.   Five years ago the lineup was Patriot, Compass, Liberty, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  Today it is Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  5 then, 5 now.

    The Envision is substantially more expensive than a Verano. There is zero point in comparing sales. They are also only building so many of them for the U.S. due to the distance of the production line and popularity in China.   

    The Dart and 200 were compromised vehicles using older platforms. While neither of them were bad vehicles, they weren't competitive in their respective markets.  Chrysler also made the mistake of trying to capture the low end of the market with the 200... they should have made it a Regal equivalent and priced it accordingly.  Build a new avenger off the same platform for the low end if need be.  

    Those facts I was referring to. Well said Drew. 

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    ccap41
    2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    E-series is still sold only in chassis cab and cut cab. no end date set.

    Are they all like, made-to-order then? Like they have the chassis and when somebody orders them, then they assemble them? 

     

    1 minute ago, Stew said:

    They are still building the chassis cab, you can price them out as 18 models on the Ford website, looks like they killed the E-Series van off though. 

    Man, that's one old-ass vehicle bones! lol 

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    Stew
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    That's not GM's fault that FCA lost products to sell. Or Ford's or Toyota's... 

    Not saying it is, only saying WHY THEIR sales are down, nothing to do with anyone else.  PERIOD.  They also posted record profits last quarter, just an FYI.

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, ccap41 said:

    Are they all like, made-to-order then? Like they have the chassis and when somebody orders them, then they assemble them? 

     

    Unsure on made to order, but no, they churn out a bunch of vehicles, and when Uhaul comes up on the caller ID, they ship them out. 

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    Stew
    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    E-series is still sold only in chassis cab and cut cab. no end date set.

    The Renegade, though smaller than the Patriot, took the place of the Patriot in the Jeep lineup at the same price point. The Compass is above it. Jeep didn't really lose any models, they just had overlap of an outgoing and incoming model at the same time that gave it the appearance of a lost model.   Five years ago the lineup was Patriot, Compass, Liberty, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  Today it is Renegade, Compass, Cherokee, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee.  5 then, 5 now.

    The Envision is substantially more expensive than a Verano. There is zero point in comparing sales. They are also only building so many of them for the U.S. due to the distance of the production line and popularity in China.   

    The Dart and 200 were compromised vehicles using older platforms. While neither of them were bad vehicles, they weren't competitive in their respective markets.  Chrysler also made the mistake of trying to capture the low end of the market with the 200... they should have made it a Regal equivalent and priced it accordingly.  Build a new avenger off the same platform for the low end if need be.  

    IF the Renegade had just came out for example, you would have a point, but their sales have been happening since 14 so the YTD and monthly sales includes the Renegade ADN the patriot.  5 years ago doesn't count comparing last years sales and that is what we are talking about here. 

    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Are they all like, made-to-order then? Like they have the chassis and when somebody orders them, then they assemble them? 

     

    Man, that's one old-ass vehicle bones! lol 

    But bones a lot of companies trust.  Got me curious and also neat to see they are still unning the Triton 6.8 V10!

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, Stew said:

    IF the Renegade had just came out for example, you would have a point, but their sales have been happening since 14 so the YTD and monthly sales includes the Renegade ADN the patriot.  5 years ago doesn't count comparing last years sales and that is what we are talking about here. 

    I understand that. I was just stating that there was overlap of a new model and old model for a few years.  Just like how the old Impala was still in production for fleets for a few years after new Impala went on sale.... or how... Caravan is still set for production. It is currently suspended, but production of the 2018 is expected to start in a month. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

    Exactly.. stagnant, stale, FCA... What was the last NEW product they brought out?  Everything is just replacing what they have that's old like the Compass, Pacifica, and Wrangler.

    200 was new, FAILED.

    Dart was new, FAILED. 

    Outside of jeeps and Trucks, pretty much no game....other than one SUV.  lame.

    Ohhhh...and Muscle cars that are pretty much relying on what they did back when people still trusted Nixon.

    58 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Unsure on made to order, but no, they churn out a bunch of vehicles, and when Uhaul comes up on the caller ID, they ship them out. 

    Quoted for truth.

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    ccap41
    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    Unsure on made to order, but no, they churn out a bunch of vehicles, and when Uhaul comes up on the caller ID, they ship them out. 

    Ahhhh now things are making more sense!  Fleet E-Series. I knew they were only for work vans but I hadn't thought of Uhaul or places like that buying them. 

    1 hour ago, Stew said:

    Got me curious and also neat to see they are still unning the Triton 6.8 V10!

    I had to look it up.. 288hp or 320hp and 424tq or 460tq. What a freakin' dog of a motor. Nothing a simple 3.5 EB couldn't handle with ease. 

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    Drew Dowdell
    11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Ahhhh now things are making more sense!  Fleet E-Series. I knew they were only for work vans but I hadn't thought of Uhaul or places like that buying them. 

    I had to look it up.. 288hp or 320hp and 424tq or 460tq. What a freakin' dog of a motor. Nothing a simple 3.5 EB couldn't handle with ease. 

    Eh, they're good slow speed tuggers if not particularly fuel efficient. Not something you have to wind up like an EB.  Remember, HP is a function of torque and RPM, so the slower the engine is turning when it is making that torque, the less horsepower it makes.

    Also, those numbers didn't look right, so I also went and looked them up on Ford's website and found this:

    Quote

    Because your vocation has specific power requirements, we offer two engine choices in our E-Series Cutaway models. The standard 6.8L Triton® V10 delivers 305 horsepower and 420 lb.-ft. of best-in-class torque.* And the available 6.2L flex-fuel V8 rated at 331 horsepower and 356 lb.-ft. of torque. Both engines are teamed with the proven, durable Ford-built TorqShift® 6-speed automatic transmission.

    The meat of that 420 lb-ft or 356 lb-ft is going to be available at very low RPM.  No, they're not race motors. They're built for pulling.  In an Ecoboost, you'll be spooling up the turbo constantly to get that sort of power. 

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    ccap41
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Eh, they're good slow speed tuggers if not particularly fuel efficient. Not something you have to wind up like an EB.  Remember, HP is a function of torque and RPM, so the slower the engine is turning when it is making that torque, the less horsepower it makes.

    Oh I definitely agree. I would have said the Chevy 6.2 but Ford doesn't make it, LOL. This would actually be a perfect fit for the new diesel that'll go in the F150... but it'll be expensive and if it's a rental vehicle I doubt Uhaul gives a crap how much better it is because it would cost them more. Plus idiot renters WILL end up putting gasoline in the diesel tank. 

    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The meat of that 420 lb-ft or 356 lb-ft is going to be available at very low RPM.  No, they're not race motors. They're built for pulling.  In an Ecoboost, you'll be spooling up the turbo constantly to get that sort of power. 

    Yeah I'm assuming the biggest hold up with not putting either V6 ecoboost is that the E Series is so old and designed with different motors in mind that there just isn't a good way to cram a turbo v6 under the hood anyway. It just seems like there as to be a better option for the V10. I UNDERSTAND why it's used... but still seems odd.. it's 2017. hahaha

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    Drew Dowdell

    I would think that anything that can hold an OHC V10 could handle a Turbo V6.... it's probably something to do with service and maintenance... like no way to reach the oil filter or something weird like that. 

    But even still. I don't think the 3.5EB would be a good performance fit here. 

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    ccap41

    I don't necessarily mean physical dimensions but things like mounting locations, trans mounting and things like that. but turbo plumbing probably isn't the easiest in the front end of a van. 

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    regfootball

    funny story.  FCA..  last month all the adds for Ram truck leases 200 a month.

    I went in to get an oil change on the last saturday before the end of the month on my chrysler van and tried to strike up a conversation with sales guy as my lease is ending soon.  

    'yeah, there really isn't any incentives on the new 2018's'.  I've never been so slighted by sales guy before.

    FF to tuesday, i get a voice mail from both a regional chrysler marketing line, and from a sales guy at another dealer.  wonder if they say the october numbers, i bet there will be incentives now.

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    Drew Dowdell
    7 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    funny story.  FCA..  last month all the adds for Ram truck leases 200 a month.

    I went in to get an oil change on the last saturday before the end of the month on my chrysler van and tried to strike up a conversation with sales guy as my lease is ending soon.  

    'yeah, there really isn't any incentives on the new 2018's'.  I've never been so slighted by sales guy before.

    FF to tuesday, i get a voice mail from both a regional chrysler marketing line, and from a sales guy at another dealer.  wonder if they say the october numbers, i bet there will be incentives now.

    The 2017s will be what they'll be pushing incentives on.  Once the year rolls over, it will get harder if not impossible to lease the 2017s.

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    regfootball
    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The 2017s will be what they'll be pushing incentives on.  Once the year rolls over, it will get harder if not impossible to lease the 2017s.

    you're exactly right.  but many other manufacturers already had good incentives on their 18's.  Seems like Chrysler / FCA's 2017 backlog may be something to watch.

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    Drew Dowdell
    6 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    you're exactly right.  but many other manufacturers already had good incentives on their 18's.  Seems like Chrysler / FCA's 2017 backlog may be something to watch.

    they'll only have incentives on what's already on the lots in bulk.  FCA seems to be behind with getting their '18s out. 

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    G. David Felt
    16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    they'll only have incentives on what's already on the lots in bulk.  FCA seems to be behind with getting their '18s out. 

    Makes one wonder if that could be a indicator of cash flow issues.

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    regfootball
    30 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    they'll only have incentives on what's already on the lots in bulk.  FCA seems to be behind with getting their '18s out. 

    In my past observations, Ford usually gets their 18's out anywhere from June - September.  GM maybe lags that some.  FCA i don't have a good history base on but many chrysler dealers are just getting 2018 300's now too.  Those should have been out 1-2 months ago.

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    Drew Dowdell

    GM is weird.  Sometimes they'll have a car out as soon as January of one year prior to model year and then you get 18 months of a model year's production. Other times it will be December before it goes on sale and then quickly switch in May or June. The Envision's first model year was only about 3 months long. 

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