Sales Figure Ticker: March 2016

FoMoCo - 254,711

GM - 252,128

Yup. Ford is really putting the Hertz on GM.

Fiat down 24% is just some sort of April Fool's joke right?

Why is Chrysler not red since it is down? A bit surprised by the BUICK number as that I figured would be at least even. Cadillac is also a bit of a surprise. Fiat is to be expected and alfa is also down though I understand the current rating..

Good to see the America brands still doing very well. 

Why is Chrysler not red since it is down?

Formatting error. I fixed it.

Pickups

Ford F-Series - 73,884

Chevy Silverado - 47,966

GMC Sierra - 21,548

Ram - 44,874

Ford Total = 73,884

GM total =  69,514

FCA total - 44,874

I wish I could afford a brand spankin new truck.

Mustang - 12,563

Camaro - 6,879

Challenger - 5,369

So both MB and Smartcar are down but guess that is OK cause Sprinter Vans is up, so a wash then on MB's whoring out it's product line?

Ghosts I tell ya. I see some ghosts. We're getting haunted.

Ghosts I tell ya. I see some ghosts. We're getting haunted.

Sorry...I just cant do the Summer of 2016 version...its got to be the original...

"We came, we saw, we kicked its ASS!!!"

- Cadillac - Down 5.1% (13,053 Vehicles Sold This Month, 35,633 Vehicles Sold So Far This Year)

- Lincoln - Up 11.4% (9,698 Vehicles Sold This Month, 24,905 Vehicles Sold So Far This Year)

Go ahead...and start laughing at Lincoln...I dare you!

I dare you GREATLY!!!!

Cadillac was down probably because of the SRX production winding down.

Escalade sales have also kinda levelled off. The sedans are arguably doing much better compared to the losses elsewhere in the industry. I think BMW has finally confused its sedan buyers with too many similar products - over segmenting. Like really, if the 4 Series is the better looker of the 3 Series chassis based car - why not just make the 4 Series the 3 Series? Simply things like that. Also, I think C-Class and whole slew of competitors are giving it to BMW.

I think Cadillac being reorganized - this is to be expected even now. Their new communications are all about a completely different kind of brand identity they want to project and the awareness of the brand they are striving to build is completely different. 

Lincoln is doing something very smart. They are catering to buyers who are no longer served by Lexus, Cadillac and everyone else going sporty. I think Buick also gains a lot from that. 

And the kinds of vehicles that Lincoln is selling are very viable. Commonality works. It keeps the RX and ES going. Cadillac's biggest sellers will always be the Escalade and SRX/XT5. 

And I think Cadillac will try to convert the XTS buyers to CT6. It should work out well. But still. The XTS I think did far better than Cadillac could have imagined. Combine those and CTS sales and you've got a lot a good combo of people buying the sports luxury sedan and the luxury cruiser sedan.

I fail to see what the fuss is all about re. GM. They said they were going to cut back on fleet sales and they did. Meanwhile I have read in another place that nearly 2 of every 5 Ford sales are now fleet. If that's how you want to grow your brand then by all means do so. But don't be so naive as to think it's because of some groundswell by the car buying public. By the same token there were a lot less happy folks that month last year when FCA beat Ford in retail sales. This is just both sides of the same coin.

I fail to see what the fuss is all about re. GM. They said they were going to cut back on fleet sales and they did. Meanwhile I have read in another place that nearly 2 of every 5 Ford sales are now fleet. If that's how you want to grow your brand then by all means do so. But don't be so naive as to think it's because of some groundswell by the car buying public. By the same token there were a lot less happy folks that month last year when FCA beat Ford in retail sales. This is just both sides of the same coin.

Then why is their growth in ATPs double the industry average?

Seems like to me they are getting favourable volume in their mix.

They're doing record commercial deliveries.

Conceivably they could be selling more higher trim F150s to businesses. Who knows. A mystery though how their transactions prices are increasing.

Also, a lot of Ford models are older now. The Focus and Fiesta are old, so getting more volume outta them makes sense. 

But then again, why do we continue to compare Ford's financial performance to GM?

It's because for the longest time even as a smaller firm Ford outperformed GM. The General finally getting its act together - I would expect, I WOULD DEMAND GM as a shareholder to beat Ford in retail sales. No $h!.

No.

They went all-in on fleet when GM bailed. And this is the result.

And IM pretty sure that the uptick in F-series sales was largely in their "refrigerator white" series.

Seriously guys. Much ado about lots of vehicles being bought by bots instead of people. A numbers game sure to warm the heart of any good beancounter, but certainly not indicitive of any sudden retail embrace of Ford. I hear that even Wall Street wasn't terribly impressed-outlooks for Ford and GM were similarly meh.

The downvotes sure are cute tho

" Customers continue buying high-end SUVs and trucks, helping the Ford brand increase its average transaction prices by more than $1,600 per vehicle in March -- nearly double the industry average,” Mark LaNeve, Ford's vice president for U.S. marketing, sales and service, said in a statement. “We have been seeing solid sales momentum in the first quarter across our entire portfolio.

Across the industry, TrueCar estimates incentive spending per vehicle rose 10 percent to $3,005 last month compared with March 2015. BMW AG had the highest average incentive last month at $4,816, TrueCar estimates, followed by Daimler AG ($3,981); GM ($3,943); FCA ($3,887); Nissan ($3,362); VW Group ($3,349); Ford ($3,271); Kia ($2,868); Hyundai ($2,163); Toyota ($2,027); Honda ($1,590) and Subaru ($569). "

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160401/RETAIL01/304019976?template=mobile

Yup. According to an admin at another place who checked the numbers, 37% of ALL FORD SALES LAST MONTH were fleet.

Good for raw numbers. But not exactly what you're looking to build your brand on.

It is troubling to see the persistent cannibalization of Ford sales by Lincoln and vice-versa. MXC sales are down while Escape sales are up, and both Lincoln sedans are in the same situation. The Edge is the sole notable exception.

And then there's the question of how many of those are fleet sales.

Nice numbers on thre surface. But there are still issues to be dealt with at Ford.

The MKX had pretty strong sales. 

GM still sells a lot to fleet. Escalade and XTS get a good chunk from livery services. Likely that the XTS over its product cycle has seen an uptick over the years.

Remember, 15% of Malibu sales are all the outgoing Limited. Most of those go straight to fleet. GM said when the new Impala came out it would wait a good while before it went to fleet. Broken promise, they started popping up at your local Enterprise within the first quarter.

Likely as they wind down Malibu Limited they'll do the same for the new one. 

Cadillac was down probably because of the SRX production winding down.

 

Escalade sales have also kinda levelled off. The sedans are arguably doing much better compared to the losses elsewhere in the industry. I think BMW has finally confused its sedan buyers with too many similar products - over segmenting. Like really, if the 4 Series is the better looker of the 3 Series chassis based car - why not just make the 4 Series the 3 Series? Simply things like that. Also, I think C-Class and whole slew of competitors are giving it to BMW.

 

I think Cadillac being reorganized - this is to be expected even now. Their new communications are all about a completely different kind of brand identity they want to project and the awareness of the brand they are striving to build is completely different. 

 

Lincoln is doing something very smart. They are catering to buyers who are no longer served by Lexus, Cadillac and everyone else going sporty. I think Buick also gains a lot from that. 

 

And the kinds of vehicles that Lincoln is selling are very viable. Commonality works. It keeps the RX and ES going. Cadillac's biggest sellers will always be the Escalade and SRX/XT5. 

 

And I think Cadillac will try to convert the XTS buyers to CT6. It should work out well. But still. The XTS I think did far better than Cadillac could have imagined. Combine those and CTS sales and you've got a lot a good combo of people buying the sports luxury sedan and the luxury cruiser sedan.

Yeah...that about sums it up, Suave...

 I just wanted to do the Cadillac -% sales versus Lincoln +% sales and tying it up neatly with that "dare greatly" thing for the cheap, gratuitous  laughs...

Well, the commercial sales can be quite lucrative. No one has ever said that B2B sales aren't worth pursuing.

And I hardly think the Ford Transit - arguably the best commercial van available at this time waters down Ford's brand. They're known to sell to fleets, and Ford commercial vehicles have a heavy market presence.

Besides Mercedes and its corporate siblings also are deeply into those segments. Yet somehow they have a very high brand value.

What should really be scary is how is Ford able to generate almost equivocal profits to the new resurgent GM with supposedly a growth spurt in utility sales and commercial vehicles, yet still being handily outsold by GM, almost twice in terms of units by GM worldwide.

I fail to see what the fuss is all about re. GM. They said they were going to cut back on fleet sales and they did. Meanwhile I have read in another place that nearly 2 of every 5 Ford sales are now fleet. If that's how you want to grow your brand then by all means do so. But don't be so naive as to think it's because of some groundswell by the car buying public. By the same token there were a lot less happy folks that month last year when FCA beat Ford in retail sales. This is just both sides of the same coin.

 

Then why is their growth in ATPs double the industry average?

 

Seems like to me they are getting favourable volume in their mix.

 

They're doing record commercial deliveries.

 

Conceivably they could be selling more higher trim F150s to businesses. Who knows. A mystery though how their transactions prices are increasing.

 

Also, a lot of Ford models are older now. The Focus and Fiesta are old, so getting more volume outta them makes sense. 

 

But then again, why do we continue to compare Ford's financial performance to GM?

 

It's because for the longest time even as a smaller firm Ford outperformed GM. The General finally getting its act together - I would expect, I WOULD DEMAND GM as a shareholder to beat Ford in retail sales. No $h!.

GM is increasing commercial fleet while lowering rental.

GM commercial fleet is up. Commercial deliveries were up 9 percent and have increased year over year for 29 consecutive months. Sales to Government customers were up 23 percent.

Okay. So they're selling more fully loaded trucks.

And GM Silverado sales have levelled off. What's the point about fleet sales again? What point is anyone trying to make? I've said it before that automakers sell to fleet all the time.

I mean GM has practically surrendered the commercial segment. What's there not to benefit from?

I have never been the person to go after fleet sales. 

And also.... hindsight.

Funny you mention FCA retail sales and now they're being investigated for questionable business practices and possibly fraudulent sales. Anyways, the damage has been done there.

Shooting the messenger does not change the message.

Ford had a great month because they've gone all-in on fleet sales. If you don't mind that then fine. Speaking for myself, I've seen first-hand what over-reliance on fleet does for vehicle innovation. IMO, were already seeing some of these effects in critical market segments for FoMoCo. And the brand differentiation is still a big issue as well.

GM edging up YOY while torching fleet sales is more remarkable to me.

Okay. So they're selling more fully loaded trucks.

 

And GM Silverado sales have levelled off. What's the point about fleet sales again? What point is anyone trying to make? I've said it before that automakers sell to fleet all the time.

 

I mean GM has practically surrendered the commercial segment. What's there not to benefit from?

 

I have never been the person to go after fleet sales. 

Then you haven't been paying attention over the last few years. For years, on two different forum sites, I have read countless posts form Ford fans who dogged on GMs fleet habit and rental sales. All we heard about was "retail profit margins vs. rental and fleet margins" and now that the shoe is on the other foot, they are nowhere to be found (well, one of them with good reason lol). Where were you during all of that (seeing as you were also at both sites)?

Seems someone else (not you Suave) glossed over the fact that Ford's rental sales have increased over last year (V6 Mustang anyone?) but that's none of my business.

Okay. So they're selling more fully loaded trucks.

 

And GM Silverado sales have levelled off. What's the point about fleet sales again? What point is anyone trying to make? I've said it before that automakers sell to fleet all the time.

 

I mean GM has practically surrendered the commercial segment. What's there not to benefit from?

 

I have never been the person to go after fleet sales. 

Where is this proof that GM is "practically" surrendering the Fleet market?

That would be the several-months long press releases stating that GM was getting out of the fleet market.

And another inconvenient truth I got downvoted for: VW, diesel gate and all, has percentage losses in the marketplace LESS THAN HALF those of Mazda. Because, unfortunately, nobody cares about Mazda.

And another inconvenient truth I got downvoted for: VW, diesel gate and all, has percentage losses in the marketplace LESS THAN HALF those of Mazda. Because, unfortunately, nobody cares about Mazda.

There are definitely still people that care about Mazda.  Just not enough people.  I can't figure out how Subaru continues its growth pace and Mazda is stuck where they are.  I've had a new Subaru before.  I liked it but its was not anything spectacular.  It can't be just the AWD that is driving their sales, though.  So how is it Mazda (with better vehicles IMO) has seemingly hit a plateau and Subaru continues to grow?  It's not like they are doing it off their quality reputation. I would take a Mazda 3 or 6 over any other Asian OEM's offering in those segments, though I will say I have not had the opportunity to check out the new Civic yet.

Fact. Ford has more models than Chevrolet. They should be outselling them for the same reason that GM beats Ford MoCo. overall. More models.

I'm not going to link to someone else's website. But if you go looking you'll find that GM's rental volume is down 43,000 units YOY. So, doing that math (and assuming that Ford snatched up, say, half that volume), you're looking at a nearly 70,000 unit sales swing just through fleet shifts.

As a GM guy I'll admit that I'd prefer to see them be the biggest automaker in the world, never mind NA. But I've been around long enough to know that being #1 without great product is a greasy pole indeed. And since nobody has been able to get those two traits to align yet, I'll root for GM to stay the course.

I'm not going to link to someone else's website. But if you go looking you'll find that GM's rental volume is down 43,000 units YOY. So, doing that math (and assuming that Ford snatched up, say, half that volume), you're looking at a nearly 70,000 unit sales swing just through fleet shifts.

As a GM guy I'll admit that I'd prefer to see them be the biggest automaker in the world, never mind NA. But I've been around long enough to know that being #1 without great product is a greasy pole indeed. And since nobody has been able to get those two traits to align yet, I'll root for GM to stay the course.

Some people don't understand the difference between fleet sales and rental sales and that's okay. They also can't seem to acknowledge the fact that rental sales have increased for Ford while it has decreased for GM. The GM rental sales argument was pointed out (by many Ford fans and GM haters) for years as a weakness for GM but now that the roles have reversed, they are oddly silent on that SAME fact occurring for Ford. The rest of us understand perfectly though.

Some people don't understand rental sales are fleet sales.

Some people don't understand that GM has increased Commercial fleet and Government fleet while trying to claim " GM is getting out of the fleet business ".

Some people just don't understand.

I think GM moving out of the rental business right now has nothing to do with actually reducing fleet sales.

They're revamping their model lineup as we speak and it means the fleet allocations have been deferred.

For example, the majority of Cruzes available are the limited model and the Cruze took a massive hit in sales when they reduced the fleet allocation that and the incoming 2017 Cruze.

Ford did exactly the same in 2011 and 2012. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/31/are-fords-sales-gains-better-than-they-look.aspx

Either way, it's short-term tactic to ensure adequate inventories for the new models.

This time next year, GM will UP fleet sales when the production has smoothed out.

I hate to look at short-term trends, while GM and Ford have historically always been fleet heavy of some kind, whether government, commercial or rental.

Shooting the messenger does not change the message.

Ford had a great month because they've gone all-in on fleet sales. If you don't mind that then fine. Speaking for myself, I've seen first-hand what over-reliance on fleet does for vehicle innovation. IMO, were already seeing some of these effects in critical market segments for FoMoCo. And the brand differentiation is still a big issue as well.

GM edging up YOY while torching fleet sales is more remarkable to me.

I was told you people like explanations for the "-1" otherwise you get all pissy.

Explanation: You're being a douche. 

I think GM moving out of the rental business right now has nothing to do with actually reducing fleet sales.

 

They're revamping their model lineup as we speak and it means the fleet allocations have been deferred.

 

For example, the majority of Cruzes available are the limited model and the Cruze took a massive hit in sales when they reduced the fleet allocation that and the incoming 2017 Cruze.

 

Ford did exactly the same in 2011 and 2012. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/31/are-fords-sales-gains-better-than-they-look.aspx

 

Either way, it's short-term tactic to ensure adequate inventories for the new models.

 

This time next year, GM will UP fleet sales when the production has smoothed out.

 

I hate to look at short-term trends, while GM and Ford have historically always been fleet heavy of some kind, whether government, commercial or rental.

Excellent explanation and analysis!

Just to be clear - I find all this back forth between Foarder this and General Moron this really stupid and petty. 

All this stupid nonsensical analysis of stupidity.

This kind of thread is always predictable. Sheesh. Now someone's gonna say, but they started it first!!

Trump did that recently and he was told by the top CNN anchor that it's the explanation of a 5 year-old.

Plumbuses are what we really need.

I think GM moving out of the rental business right now has nothing to do with actually reducing fleet sales.

 

They're revamping their model lineup as we speak and it means the fleet allocations have been deferred.

 

For example, the majority of Cruzes available are the limited model and the Cruze took a massive hit in sales when they reduced the fleet allocation that and the incoming 2017 Cruze.

 

Ford did exactly the same in 2011 and 2012. http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/31/are-fords-sales-gains-better-than-they-look.aspx

 

Either way, it's short-term tactic to ensure adequate inventories for the new models.

 

This time next year, GM will UP fleet sales when the production has smoothed out.

 

I hate to look at short-term trends, while GM and Ford have historically always been fleet heavy of some kind, whether government, commercial or rental.

I think you are wrong. There reduction in rentals (with the subsequent rise in retail sales) has been because of the desire for more more profits, the same reason Ford did for many years. It was well discussed last year when GM announced such a thing.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-30/gm-pulls-back-on-rental-fleet-sales-in-search-of-better-margins

Don't know why you are ignoring that fact.

Just to be clear - I find all this back forth between Foarder this and General Moron this really stupid and petty. 

 

All this stupid nonsensical analysis of stupidity.

 

This kind of thread is always predictable. Sheesh. Now someone's gonna say, but they started it first!!

 

Trump did that recently and he was told by the top CNN anchor that it's the explanation of a 5 year-old.

 

Plumbuses are what we really need.

Then maybe you should pay attention to what someone is actually saying instead of what you think they are saying. Also, pay attention to current events more. Again, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-30/gm-pulls-back-on-rental-fleet-sales-in-search-of-better-margins

BTW Suave, I'm not trying to sound like an ass but I just don't think you are seeing the whole picture on some matters and getting things twisted up. Nothing personal.

I don't buy it.

Of course GM is doing much better now in terms of retail sales - but again. When their showroom ages - because GM has already said they'll slow down the pace of clean-sheet redesigns...

Fleet sales will go up to keep the lights going. It's a fact. It's how they've operated. All of the domestic brands.

I've read car mags for like 10 years in a row now. And every time some automakers says "We're going to chase retail!"

It ends up being a short-term campaign, once the models start becoming older they start selling to fleets more. I expect nothing to change in this dynamic. Numbers may, but the whole system won't.

There was a ghost that manifested. Anyways, the mark of the ghost... I will try to get rid of it.

Ghost - please stop doing the +/- on anyone. Please. 

Just to be clear - I find all this back forth between Foarder this and General Moron this really stupid and petty. 

 

All this stupid nonsensical analysis of stupidity.

 

This kind of thread is always predictable. Sheesh. Now someone's gonna say, but they started it first!!

 

Trump did that recently and he was told by the top CNN anchor that it's the explanation of a 5 year-old.

 

Plumbuses are what we really need.

Eh, whatever. I stand by every single post I've made in this thing.

El Kabong.. if U get down voted... eff 'em.. Seriously.. I wish someone would down vote me.. I could care less. 

The Sales gain of Ford over GM is evident and explained by the fact that the Fomoco went 37% Fleet. Read that!!! That's just 13% below HALF of their entire sales number NOT going to actual individual buyers. On the Flip.. GM only had 23% go to fleet at all.. 

People.. er I mean idiots trying to pump up Lincoln over Caddy need to look at the reasons and the numbers. I won't even mention that the one Lincoln that was up was the newest model stealing sales from the next newest. The MKX is yanking sales from the MKC left and right. No secret to anyone with a brain as to why. Cadillac??? SRX is essentially dead.. XT5 will pick up the slack easily. 

Its like celebrating this BS Ford 2K sales win over GM and not simply looking at the fact that the Cruze alone is down 14K sales for obvious.. reasons.

It's a temporary condition caused by the lack of ramped up production, and needed to fulfill customer backlog. And Lincoln more than made up the loss in MKC. They're up 11% because of MKX and Navigator. Cadillac was down this month - because of SRX winding down. But the MKX carries a higher transaction prices than the other Lincolns other than Navigator.

Once production normalizes the fleet sales will be used as mechanism to smooth sales year-over year. Like how it's always been done. However, breaks from the norm do happen. This year, Ford's fleet sales were front loaded, their fleet customers wanted their vehicles earlier, so production was timed to deliver vehicles in March. It's got everything to do with their vans. Remember. GM does not have really anything AT ALL that is competitive in the commercial van segment anymore.

I do agree - GM is making the some of the best products out there right now. But the reasons why fleet sales are down are pretty clear. The fleet queen Cruze is gone, being replaced with the new Cruze which is barely out yet. No more bread vans of any kind other than the rebadged Nissan NV. Chevy Captiva is gone. Other thing such as production either winding down for some outgoing cars or production now even up fully for others yet.

You look at it another way, Ford had 160,467 retail sales, and GM had 30,000 more. I do believe that GM just has more models and more segments covered with its 4 family of brands. They're supposed to outsell Ford in retail. I mean it's not a shocker. It's what I expect, at the very least. And those retail numbers should do even better with the new products at the full speed. But again, It's no shocker to expect GM to outsell Ford in both fleet and retail. 

It's a temporary condition caused by the lack of ramped up production, and needed to fulfill customer backlog. And Lincoln more than made up the loss in MKC. They're up 11% because of MKX and Navigator. Cadillac was down this month - because of SRX winding down. But the MKX carries a higher transaction prices than the other Lincolns other than Navigator.

 

Once production normalizes the fleet sales will be used as mechanism to smooth sales year-over year. Like how it's always been done. However, breaks from the norm do happen. This year, Ford's fleet sales were front loaded, their fleet customers wanted their vehicles earlier, so production was timed to deliver vehicles in March. It's got everything to do with their vans. Remember. GM does not have really anything AT ALL that is competitive in the commercial van segment anymore.

 

I do agree - GM is making the some of the best products out there right now. But the reasons why fleet sales are down are pretty clear. The fleet queen Cruze is gone, being replaced with the new Cruze which is barely out yet. No more bread vans of any kind other than the rebadged Nissan NV. Chevy Captiva is gone. Other thing such as production either winding down for some outgoing cars or production now even up fully for others yet.

 

You look at it another way, Ford had 160,467 retail sales, and GM had 30,000 more. I do believe that GM just has more models and more segments covered with its 4 family of brands. They're supposed to outsell Ford in retail. I mean it's not a shocker. It's what I expect, at the very least. And those retail numbers should do even better with the new products at the full speed. But again, It's no shocker to expect GM to outsell Ford in both fleet and retail.

Why do you seemingly ignore evidence that is contrary to your statement and then when you see that you are wrong, try to make excuses for the wrong?

I don't buy it.

 

Of course GM is doing much better now in terms of retail sales - but again. When their showroom ages - because GM has already said they'll slow down the pace of clean-sheet redesigns...

 

Fleet sales will go up to keep the lights going. It's a fact. It's how they've operated. All of the domestic brands.

 

I've read car mags for like 10 years in a row now. And every time some automakers says "We're going to chase retail!"

 

It ends up being a short-term campaign, once the models start becoming older they start selling to fleets more. I expect nothing to change in this dynamic. Numbers may, but the whole system won't.

You don't have to buy it but the facts were right there in front of you. I cannot help you if you decided to ignore that fact by saying "I don't buy it".