Despite COVID-19, PSA Group Still Planning A Return By 2023

Will be interesting to see if and what comes to the North American shores. 

PSA can forget cars, waste of time here now. They should be focused on mid size CUV with a Large and Small option for the best start I think. If they come in with a quality product unlike Fiat 500, then they should do well.

C and D segment sedans would be a differentiator since the domestic big 3 have abandoned those niches.  The market is flooded with generic CUVs, I don't see how they would stand out with such models.  

We always pronounced it 'Pig-Knot'.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

C and D segment sedans would be a differentiator since the domestic big 3 have abandoned those niches.  The market is flooded with generic CUVs, I don't see how they would stand out with such models.  

Its a catch-22, isnt it?

Market is not interested in sedans.  CUVs are the sellers.   Market is flooded with bland CUVs. Their CUVs, although more exotic because fully European, are still bland when you look beyond the "exotic" nameplate. 

Sedans wont do well, market dictates they wont. Their sedans are no roomier than the canceled American ones.  Their sedans are even "blander" than their American counterparts...   (Their CUVs are more interesting though)

What to sell  in North America becomes a very hard question to answer.  And if answered wrong, WILL spell disaster in a COVID world...

I think the only way they can have any hope is to play up the French ness and embrace the weird, with some Citroen and DS models.  The NA market is already crowded with forgettable CUV appliances from NA and Asian brands. 

The real thorn of the issue is; if 'Segment A' is not only selling well, but burying 'Segment B', regardless of any specs involved ::
Is not 'Segment A' therefore, literally, "DESIREABLE"?
I don't think 'forgettable' is the lead descriptor here.

Well...

French-ness has never really been a very successful selling point in ANY market in ANY era EXCEPT for France. And maybe for a couple of  African French colonial settled countries.  

Some weirdo, hippy, hipster folk from  California, Washington and Oregon might buy a few samples, I guess...but then again, if these are not EVs, I don't think even residents of the Pacific Northwest will be interested in PSA.  

They will have some sales.  The first year adopters will flock to them. But sales will dwindle. 

They only Europeans cars Americans love buying is German.  And even then,  VW goes up and down... 

I think French cars will be a hard sell in the US and in Canada.   I wish them luck, but I don't sees it.   No matter what they do styling wise.  

I just hope they keep Dodge doing what Dodge does best.  

I hope they let Chrysler survive.

I think, the BEST way PSA has in surviving in the US, is that that let their American brands (Dodge (and RAM), Chrysler and Jeep do what Dodge (RAM incl), Chrysler and Jeep does best. And that is be AMERICAN.   And what does THAT mean?  

Everytime Chryco was in the dumps, Chryco reinvents itself with good ol fashioned Americana...

K Car and the minivan and all other minivans after that. 

Viper

Cab Forward, pure American styling  Concord, LHS, 300M, Intrepid

Prowler (styling using CAD etc... and technological advancements) 

PT Cruiser  (MASSIVE success in the first 3-4 years)

Durango

300C/Challenger/Challenger

Everything Jeep since the Renault/AMC days

Everything RAM since the late 1970s

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Well...

French-ness has never really been a very successful selling point in ANY market in ANY era EXCEPT for France. And maybe for a couple of  African French colonial settled countries.  

 

 

Wouldn't Quebecois car shoppers like to have some French choices instead of the usual US and Asian appliances?     Sounds like Peugeot left Canada the same year they left the US, 1991.

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I think the only way they can have any hope is to play up the French ness and embrace the weird, with some Citroen and DS models.  The NA market is already crowded with forgettable CUV appliances from NA and Asian brands. 

Do not forget the forgettable German models too. Bland and all looking the same.

@oldshurst442 Totally agree with you on what you posted. I doubt other than a few french and weird North American Citizens that Selling a French auto on French weirdness will sell here.

I find the DN CUVs interesting, but not desirable to own. Without an EV edge of something special, Forget having PSA stuff sell on the west coast.

48 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Wouldn't Quebecois car shoppers like to have some French choices instead of the usual US and Asian appliances?     Sounds like Peugeot left Canada the same year they left the US, 1991.

Where the hell was PSA in 1991? ?

I thought they died in the US in the late 70's. Never saw anything that was not a special import usually by someone stationed in Europe or specifically France.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Wouldn't Quebecois car shoppers like to have some French choices instead of the usual US and Asian appliances?     Sounds like Peugeot left Canada the same year they left the US, 1991.

I dont know how the Quebecois French Canadians would react to PSA today.    There never ever was an affinity to France by the French people.  I mean, sure, some Quebecois people recognize their ancestral beginnings are from France,  there was always a certain hatred for France for historical reasons...  But a certain love for France as well...duh.  

 Quebecois LOVE their American cars. STILL to this day. Albeit THAT love is more on the traditional American vehicle.  What is left of it.  Jeep. American full sized pick-up trucks. Camaros, Mustangs and Corvettes.  MOPAR was always big in Quebec so the Challenger/Charger cars are hot in Quebec.

And like in the US, some of that love for the American car has faded too.  Japanese and now...Korean vehicles are their go-to for their average joe daily driven rides.  Same as in the rest of North America, I guess. 

French cars sold relatively well in Quebec in the 1960s and 1970s.  As compared to what VW and Japanese cars were doing in that time span here.  By the time the mid 70s came around, French cars were selling less and less and the Japaneses cars more and more, but the Big 3 had a huge stranglehold in Quebec.    Actually, GM's decision to close down their Quebec factory is what killed GM in Quebec.  (2002)  GM had a big, big market share in Quebec prior.  Cadillac was not exactly hindered by the German onslaught. Nor the Japanese...

BMWs, Audis and Mercedes cars really dont have the same respect factor they have in the US.  The French DO see these German luxury makes as uber luxury, but they dont have the same reverence...  

Who knows...maybe PSA will start eating away at Acura, Infiniti, Buick and those mid-level priced cars from BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz in Quebec?  

I think PSA French cars will be what Genesis is in Quebec.  Just another pretty face looking to be relevant.  I think they will take sales away from Buick, from Infiniti, from Genesis. From lease queen 3 Series Bimmers (and their CUV equivalents), C Class M-Bs(and their CUV equivalents)  and A4 Audis(and their CUV equivalents) , but not enough to be a staple on our roads long term. 

At best case scenario though, I fear for Buick.  I think Buick will die in Quebec if PSA does their Quebec marketing right. 

26 minutes ago, David said:

 

Where the hell was PSA in 1991? ?

 

They sold the 405 sedan in the US through 1991.   Though I don't recall seeing many...I think I saw a few in the early-mid 90s in the Boston area, and then in the late 90s in Denver.

25 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

At best case scenario though, I fear for Buick.  I think Buick will die in Quebec if PSA does their Quebec marketing right.  

And Buick is at a dead end in NA now, just peddling generic CUVs that have nothing special over the generic CUVs sold by Chevy and GMC..

A-aaaaannd PSA's CUVs will likewise be 'forgettable & generic appliances', but with no brand recognition, sketchy reliability / parts availability, no dealers, and a lingering negative perception. Likely with 'premium' pricing, because ; "European". Good luck.

I am excited for it.  Will be nice to see some new entrants and cars that the rest of the world gets that we don’t.  And Citroen and Peugeot make crossovers too.

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I am excited for it.  Will be nice to see some new entrants and cars that the rest of the world gets that we don’t.  And Citroen and Peugeot make crossovers too.

GARBAGE Crossovers, have not heard much positive about them, their rare time in North America was not good either.

12 hours ago, David said:

GARBAGE Crossovers, have not heard much positive about them, their rare time in North America was not good either.

Where exactly you heard bad things about these crossovers?  I am just curious, any examples?  Unless you read European magazines or have been to Europe and rented them how would you know anything about them?

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Where exactly you heard bad things about these crossovers?  I am just curious, any examples?  Unless you read European magazines or have been to Europe and rented them how would you know anything about them?

As ya know, I am a big person, lucky for me in the past before Dell bought EMC, I did travel and was able to rent. Not impressed, coworkers in Europe have not been impressed either. 

Much how people bash American Auto companies cars here for not being up to Asian or European cars, in europe PSA does not have the best rep outside of France by people and the auto's tend to come across when you see them in trashed condition.

Honestly if it was not for the past gov support to PSA I honestly doubt it would still be around. Socialism not showing it's best here in regards to PSA.

This is in addition to my own experience with them when they were here in the states and yes that was a Long LOng  LONG time ago. But then like an Elephant, I do not forget the poor experiences that I wish to NOT repeat.

17 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

And Buick is at a dead end in NA now, just peddling generic CUVs that have nothing special over the generic CUVs sold by Chevy and GMC..

Even though Buick sells 4 units in China to just 1 here, It is still here.  Sure, Buick CUVs are generally quieter than Chevy and GMC.  Buick could use something else to differentiate it from GMC especially; or GM could simply allow Buick to be China only.

12 minutes ago, David said:

This is in addition to my own experience with them when they were here in the states and yes that was a Long LOng  LONG time ago. But then like an Elephant, I do not forget the poor experiences that I wish to NOT repeat.

A little hypocritical to judge these cars from the 90s and than with the same breath say that GM of today is not nearly the same as GM of 90s.  My wife and father-in-law had such bad experiences with US cars from the 90s they will not touch them now with a stick.  People always criticize people like that here, but than they do exactly same thing when it comes to a brand different from their favorite brand.

Just want to add, when I traveled in Europe in previous years I had a ride in a few when we took Uber.  I can't say that they were bad.  Nothing exceptional but definitely not bad.  I guess it will be up to PSA which models and trims they decide to bring here and see how they compare to what we have on our market.

3 minutes ago, ykX said:

A little hypocritical to judge these cars from the 90s and than with the same breath say that GM of today is not nearly the same as GM of 90s.  My wife and father-in-law had such bad experiences with US cars from the 90s they will not touch them now with a stick.  People always criticize people like that here, but than they do exactly same thing when it comes to a brand different from their favorite brand.

? When have I criticized people like that? To each their own. I know my 90's experience is different than others and I never dealt with those car issues you and others have stated as I was driving a GMC Suburban I still own from that era. So I never have had those issues, but I understand some have.

We each only have our own experiences to fall back on and till PSA shows differently, rental experience in Europe, coworkers experience in Europe and my own interaction with PSA garbage from the 70's is what it is for now.

2 minutes ago, David said:

When have I criticized people like that?

You constantly criticize people or call them "sheep", people who buy Toyota or Honda over GM and Ford just because Japanese have better "reliability reputation".  

Well, as I said plenty of people had such bad experiences with older American cars and great experiences with Japanese, than they will not touch American cars now, justified or not. 

As I said very hypocritical to apply same argument differently just because it doesn't align with your views.

19 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

 

And Buick is at a dead end in NA now, just peddling generic CUVs that have nothing special over the generic CUVs sold by Chevy and GMC..

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Even though Buick sells 4 units in China to just 1 here, It is still here.  Sure, Buick CUVs are generally quieter than Chevy and GMC.  Buick could use something else to differentiate it from GMC especially; or GM could simply allow Buick to be China only.

To be fair to Buick.  Buick is gonna be adding to and refreshing  their US portfolio  in the next 2-3 years.   "Exciting" new (CUV) product.  2 EVs.  A couple of new models.  

One thing that we cant be pissy about with Buick is that at least  the interior quality of their vehicles is Buick worthy.   

2 hours ago, ykX said:

You constantly criticize people or call them "sheep", people who buy Toyota or Honda over GM and Ford just because Japanese have better "reliability reputation".  

Well, as I said plenty of people had such bad experiences with older American cars and great experiences with Japanese, than they will not touch American cars now, justified or not. 

As I said very hypocritical to apply same argument differently just because it doesn't align with your views.

Will agree to disagree as Toyota and Honda have a Perception of better reliability but far from it on appliance auto's. Have seen plenty of crap from those companies and I will agree with the term Sheep seem to be lazy in taking care of their auto's. 

Sheep need to drive EV's as they DO NOT want to deal with maintenance and taking car of their appliance auto's.

American auto's have not been perfect and have built some crap models, yet even the crap models can go long distance when owners follow the maintenance schedule. THIS is where the Sheep fail as their own laziness about oil changes, lubing points, brakes, etc. ended up giving them a broken down auto.

If you look at the Asian auto's who went in the 80's to 100,000 mile tune ups and 7,500 mile oil changes compared to American auto companies  who stuck with 30K tune ups and 3K oil changes and the sheep choose to NOT do the required maintenance, yes those autos failed.

Yes American Auto companies Executives screwed the public for profits, but then you find this in every company even Asian or German. 

End result is YOU and YOU alone the OWNER of the auto are responsible for reading the owners guide, following the defined maintenance schedule and paying for those things. 

This is the BITCH I have had all along on people who BITCH about American auto's and talk about their appliance Asian auto going 100,000 miles and have never cracked the owners guide. Asian Auto's build for a sheep society. 

As one who went to College and graduated from Kobe University, Kobe Japan, I can attest first hand to this Sheep mentality. This build it to have less maintenance took the American auto industry almost 20 years to get caught up to the Asian auto's.

You have a choice in this world, be a sheep and follow the crowd or take care of your stuff, look at what is required to take care of it and blaze your own path.

Choice is all YOURS!

@David  I am so sorry but you are so full of it.

The maintenance is about the same on Asian and American cars.  People either do the maintenance properly on WHATEVER autos they have or they don't.  And people I personally know that stay away from American autos because they had serious issues that have NOTHING to do to maintenance.  So cut the bullsh@t.

In the same way I can call people "sheep" that buy only GM or only Ford  "because ...".

Few times when I shopped for an auto for myself  or my relatives that had open requirements, I test drove as many autos as I could.  Guess what, Chevy or Ford simply were inferior to everything else I test drove.

17 minutes ago, ykX said:

@David  I am so sorry but you are so full of it.

The maintenance is about the same on Asian and American cars.  People either do the maintenance properly on WHATEVER autos they have or they don't.  And people I personally know that stay away from American autos because they had serious issues that have NOTHING to do to maintenance.  So cut the bullsh@t.

In the same way I can call people "sheep" that buy only GM or only Ford  "because ...".

Few times when I shopped for an auto for myself  or my relatives that had open requirements, I test drove as many autos as I could.  Guess what, Chevy or Ford simply were inferior to everything else I test drove.

Choice that is what you have and I have one Requirement that you probably never have to deal with as the US average woman height is 5'6" and average man is 5'8" currently.

As everyone knows, I am 6'6", my oldest sister is 6'2" average height across both sides of the family is 6'. 

As such setting the front drivers seat for my comfort and then getting out and getting in behind set drivers seat. If I cannot fit, then pretty much the whole family will not. As such, all auto's have to pass the seat test and here the Asian auto's FAIL.

You can say cut the Bullshit, but the fact is most people are lazy about taking care of their auto's. I will not waste my time as most people that are big into the auto scene know that most auto buyers ignore cracking their owner manual or even looking at the owners maintenance schedule. Asian auto's did move to 100,000 mile tune ups way before America did and so pretty much, oil change, tires, brakes was it compared to American auto's that required much more to be done.

Like I said nothing is perfect, but I have never scene people have bad experiences when they take care of a product to OEM requirements. That is where most humans fail at.

Agree to disagree, but that is the difference I see every time I hear about people bitching about one brand or another.

who's to say by then that everything won't be under the STELLANTIS moniker

yup, 'GROUPE' is spelled wrong.  HAHA

this isn't bad, the SUV coupe thing will grow in market, GM can't sell just all trucky Equinoxes

Even though Chrysler has the Pacifica platform now, this is not a bad looking passenger vessel

13 minutes ago, regfootball said:

this isn't bad, the SUV coupe thing will grow in market, GM can't sell just all trucky Equinoxes

 

Meh, I like the True SUV box back end over the damn coupe rear end.

CUVs are used exactly like sedans for the most part. As proof : the rear cargo area is often about 1.75 feet deep; basically useless. (not unlike most sedan trunks).

10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

CUVs are used exactly like sedans for the most part. As proof : the rear cargo area is often about 1.75 feet deep; basically useless. (not unlike most sedan trunks).

can't argue with that.  that's why we have a minivan instead of an SUV or CUV.  But CUV's are taller sedan replacements as you sort of allude to.

This Stellantis one is better looking of the Coupe CUV's than I've seen to date.  I could drive this.

The Atlas Cross Sport and Forde Edge have large cargo areas, they seem to be outliers in the market.  The Cross Sport in particular has a huge and flexible cargo hold area since the 2 row is on the same wheelbase as the 3 row.

On 8/24/2020 at 12:31 AM, regfootball said:

who's to say by then that everything won't be under the STELLANTIS moniker

yup, 'GROUPE' is spelled wrong.  HAHA

 

En Francais, my dear friend, group is spelled...groupe.

51 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

En Francais, my dear friend, group is spelled...groupe.

 

Guess it is all about the Menajahtwa! 

I do wonder what Stellantis/PSAFCA has in mind for their US CUV strategy.  Jeep is the established volume and off road CUV/SUV brand and continues to expand, Dodge is in there w/ the Durango, Alfa and Maserati dabble in performance/luxury SUVs,  so where do PSA brands come into play?   Some more car-like softroader CUVs?  With a brand that is largely unknown in the US (Peugeot or Citroen) ? 

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I do wonder what Stellantis/PSAFCA has in mind for their US CUV strategy.

Over-saturation and mass confusion, along with a healthy dose of 'we-don't-know-what-the-fuck-we're-doing'.