Carlos Ghosn To Step Down As Nissan CEO

So basically he is still in charge of everything.

Alliance, huh?  Why not a real merger between those three brands instead?

Hmmmm....

U'mmmmmmmmmmmm So in reality nothing is really changing. Just a puppet to do what he says as Chairman. I agree with Riviera74, why not just merge the 3 brands into one company and maximize savings and profits. Reduce waste through a better single focus brand globally.

I never saw the value of this man as some have. 

I was never a fan.

34 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

I never saw the value of this man as some have. 

I was never a fan.

Agree, I put him 1 step better than Sergio, but otherwise just another political player with no real auto passion. All about putting maximum money in his pocket.

Nissan would have been bankrupt and possibly out of business if not for him though.  In the 90s their fate was looking really bleak.  He might eventually merge these companies into one, especially if PSA buys Opel and gets a stronger hold in Europe, he might want to consolidate his own operation.  Nissan already owns 34% of Mitsubishi, in time maybe they will buy the rest out.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Nissan would have been bankrupt and possibly out of business if not for him though.  In the 90s their fate was looking really bleak.  He might eventually merge these companies into one, especially if PSA buys Opel and gets a stronger hold in Europe, he might want to consolidate his own operation.  Nissan already owns 34% of Mitsubishi, in time maybe they will buy the rest out.

And they are doing so well now. Nissan is not more than an afterthought. Mitsubishi should have been shut down a while ago and when was the last time you could say damn I could have had a Renault.

He may have saved them but has he done other than that?

35 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

And they are doing so well now. Nissan is not more than an afterthought. Mitsubishi should have been shut down a while ago and when was the last time you could say damn I could have had a Renault.

He may have saved them but has he done other than that?

Nissan and Renault are making multi-billion a year profits now, compared to out of business that is a pretty big turn around in 15 years.  Especially when most auto makers needed a bailout in 2009.  I am not saying Nissan-Renault is the gold standard, but they would be with Saturn, Oldsmobile, Saab and Plymouth without Ghosn.

Interesting, how you turn a 3 billion profit to a 1 billion profit due to clearly book numbers playing. As Drew has said about Opel and GM, clearly there is a shell game afoot with these companies.

http://media.renault.com/global/en-gb/renaultgroup/Media/PressRelease.aspx?mediaid=87144

http://amigobulls.com/stocks/NSANY/income-statement/annual

Nissan was stronger the Renault but they did drop in 2016 from 2015. 

Interesting shell game of the numbers.

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Nissan and Renault are making multi-billion a year profits now, compared to out of business that is a pretty big turn around in 15 years.  Especially when most auto makers needed a bailout in 2009.  I am not saying Nissan-Renault is the gold standard, but they would be with Saturn, Oldsmobile, Saab and Plymouth without Ghosn.

Yet they remain on unstable ground with far too little volume for the future. 

Who ever joined Mitsubishi was a sign of desperation.

Nissan-Renault just may belong to the dead name crowd. 

Again what have they done lately that really mattered?

Just showing a profit is only part of the equation here. High cost of labor and overhead, lack of future investment in new technology. over capacity of plants, and the lack of a strong partner to help with future rising production and development cost. 

At a time GM partners with Honda and Ford on cost savings measures and BMW with Toyota we have Nissan buying Mitsubishi.. Even the WRX is not what it once was. 

You can put up a front but the overall fincaial picture is not all that great if you take in to consideration all the issues ahead..

Everyone is going to either need a dance partner or a ton of volume to control future cost in labor, development and technology. It is going to be a majorly different auto market ahead and only a few will survive it well. 

Even Benz will feel the burn if they do not increase volumes. That is not easy to do if you do not have many low cost models and then once you have them it cheapens the image. They too will need a dance partner on systems development and cost savings. 

Only VW can go it alone as they have so many brands. But even then with the cost of the Diesel deal it has put a crunch in their cash flow for now. VW means Volume Motors and they are trying to go it alone. GM. Ford, Honda, Toyota, BMW and a couple others are trying some volume but selected partnerships even with cross town rivals. 

FCA, Suzuki, Isuzu, Nissan/Renault/Mitisubishi, Mazda and a couple others need to find a partner or they will be at risk in the future. The wild card is getting bought by China like Lotus is on the verge of now. 

We have yet to see the last brand die, 

It may require a serious auto recession to really clear out dead names and shutter factories in a way that the last recession did not, at least outside the USA.  Ghosn did save Nissan from becoming Plymouth, but who will save Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi from going the way of Studebaker in 1963?  I doubt we will have half of these car brands around in the next 8-10 years.  The only question is who will be RIP.

Even in good market with two healthy companies like Ford and GM they are working together on transmissions. 

This is really telling of the high cost of development today and how much damage or limitation can be placed on an automaker.

With the even higher cost of technology will drive it even higher while making It more difficult in keeping vehicles affordable. 

This is why companies are hedging their bets on ride sharing. 

It is ether find a partner, merge or die for about all but VW.

I do think there will be more mergers or some brands going away as time goes on.  Most industries have consolidation, especially once such as auto manufacturing.

However, Nissan made $3.7 billion in profit first 3 quarters last year, which puts them on pace for about $5 billion for the year, and Renault made $3.74 billion in profit for all of 2016.  So together they are pulling in near $9 billion a year in profit.  GM in 2016 posted a $9.43 billion profit for the year.  Ghosn's alliance is doing well, although I think they'd be better off fully merged and dumping Mitsubishi car line and using them only has commercial trucks and the Electric business.  Mitsubishi lost money last year.

Daimler did $9.28 billion in profit last year, so they don't really need a partner to survive, even more so since they just said they are going to sacrifice profit to spend more on R&D.  Ford with all their volume only did $7.4 billion.

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I do think there will be more mergers or some brands going away as time goes on.  Most industries have consolidation, especially once such as auto manufacturing.

However, Nissan made $3.7 billion in profit first 3 quarters last year, which puts them on pace for about $5 billion for the year, and Renault made $3.74 billion in profit for all of 2016.  So together they are pulling in near $9 billion a year in profit.  GM in 2016 posted a $9.43 billion profit for the year.  Ghosn's alliance is doing well, although I think they'd be better off fully merged and dumping Mitsubishi car line and using them only has commercial trucks and the Electric business.  Mitsubishi lost money last year.

Daimler did $9.28 billion in profit last year, so they don't really need a partner to survive, even more so since they just said they are going to sacrifice profit to spend more on R&D.  Ford with all their volume only did $7.4 billion.

You tend to just think profits alone are the key..... sorry that is any part of it.

The other issues are controlling cost and that takes volume and sharing cost if you lack volume.

to do development moving forward you need to reduce the cost of it either by selling a ton of new cars over many brands like VW. Or you can do limited partnerships on components or systems. Or you can merge with other makes but too often the other brands are damaged.

Benz could sell components and systems but the odds are they will partner in a limited degree with someone to provide volume to reduce future cost.

Smk you need to look ahead here not just what you did this year.

The cost of new technologies is going to continue to increase but they are limited on how much more they can charge for a car.

Just look at what EV cars cost and how important it is to drive down cost. This is why a car like the Bolt is a very important stepping stone to get cost down.

i was in a Bolt today and I was shocked how nice and roomy it was. Now if they can only find a way to make it nicer looking on the out side.

Speaking of Volume, found this news article from this month.  Seems that Ghosn could overtake GM this year, especially when Opel drops off GM.  Nissan was going to be bankrupt before him.  If he merges these 3 into one big company he might steer this ship to #1 in the world with VW in decline.

"Nissan Motor Co., Renault SA and Mitsubishi Motors Corp. combined delivered 9.96 million vehicles last year, the alliance said in an emailed statement. The three automakers chaired by Ghosn finished fewer than 4,000 cars and trucks short of GM’s deliveries in 2016 and within about 350,000 units of new worldwide leader Volkswagen AG."

Here is the link.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170208/OEM01/170209830/renault-nissan-nears-gm-global-sales-after-mitsubishi-rescue

1 hour ago, hyperv6 said:

Smk you need to look ahead here not just what you did this year.

The cost of new technologies is going to continue to increase but they are limited on how much more they can charge for a car.

Just look at what EV cars cost and how important it is to drive down cost. This is why a car like the Bolt is a very important stepping stone to get cost down.

i was in a Bolt today and I was shocked how nice and roomy it was. Now if they can only find a way to make it nicer looking on the out side.

Is Chevy going to have 10 EV's by 2025?  Mercedes plans to.  And we know Tesla will never have 10 models.  Takes them 4 years to come up with 1.  You do have to look long term, that is why when you look at the big R&D spenders you have a good idea of who will have the leading products of the future.

The formula is different for every company so tossing numbers out means little. Even then the real numbers to tell the tail are not out for us in the public sector so stop trying to make a point that you can not prove.

As for EV cars Benz and Tessa could make 100 EV cars but till someone can make one that  can be sold in the $20k-$30k range that most buyers can afford with out goverment kick backs and give it range and shorter charging times to where it does not alter you life style it means nothing. 

Anyone could make and sell a limited numbers of $100k EV cars for the wealthy to play with but to this point only a GM has even come close to offering one and even the profits may not be seen yet.

You either chose to ignore the complexity of things are just do not grasp the big picture.

EVs aren't even a niche segment yet tho. Percentages don't drive profits.

2016 U.S. EV sales soared like 37% IIRC (half are sold in CA due to that's state mandate), but that 37% growth only equated to 

POINT ZERO NINE PERCENT of all U.S. vehicle sales. (160,000 units out of 17,550,000 total).

Want to bring on 10 EV models?? Sure, go ahead, but no one is buying.

Again you refuse to see past the end of your nose.

Come back when you get the big picture.

I do not question the eventual commonality of EVs, merely the purported timeline of such.
That is all I have ever stated WRT EVs. Some here think they will be 50% of the market in 10 or 15 years.

There are brands which are still scrambling to serve up CUVs and the penetration there is 100s of times that of EVs. OEMs cannot ignore the business cases for product planning.

33 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I do not question the eventual commonality of EVs, merely the purported timeline of such.
That is all I have ever stated WRT EVs. Some here think they will be 50% of the market in 10 or 15 years.

There are brands which are still scrambling to serve up CUVs and the penetration there is 100s of times that of EVs. OEMs cannot ignore the business cases for product planning.

The thing is you can not put a time line on development and discovery.

We still lack a real battery to make the transition. The key is to charge in the time you can fill a tank of gas and we are not there. Also the range could still use more work too.

We could be one week from a major discovery or we could be 10 years but the key it to invest in this so there is a discovery and improvement in the product as with no investment and no building of the market it will never exist.

I do not see Electric replacing ICE entirely unless some wacko Euro government would make it a law. There are just some applications that it will never replace soon.

But to ignore the market would be a total failure of a company at some point as they all will need an alternative just do to pending regulations.

Right now the key is to get the price down and provide a product that will make a profit even when sold to the common buyer. We get closer with each gen but we are not there yet.

Also key is the acceptance by the average customer. They generally do not want a vehicle they have to altered their life style over and that is what we have now. Recharge times and range are key and we have made progress but not everyone wants to take an Hour a Half piss break to make it home on a trip. Then you have the charging issue. Not everyone has a place they can put in a charger or recharge at home. Then the cost of the charging station on top of that.

I built my new garage with 220 outlets and the box near the normal parking spots. I did it mostly for a welder but also if I ever have to have a charger I have a spot for it. Not that I am in a hurry to get a EV car. I really am looking for the ZR2 in the next six months.

Mercedes thinks 20% of their global sales will be EV in 2025.   So they will be ready in case it happens.  Just like they were ready for the crossover boom since they have been building them since the 90s. 

There's a lot of room between "ignoring the [EV] market" and 'making an EV variant of most models and selling 20% of total production as EV in 8 short years'.

Honestly, I expect the BOLT to be the game changer once it is in all states. I expect it to sell out all year long as people want to not bother with fuel and the maintenance of an ICE auto. This will drive people and just as people are used to plugging their phone in at night when they go to bed, plugging in their auto for the night to charge will be no big deal. 

Washington state you are now seeing gas stations add a section for rapid charging level 3. Yes it is still a 15-20 min charge time to get 80% of capacity, but for many that is more than enough to finish their trip to point B.

I agree with Hyper that once we get true Rapid Charging in place to reduce this to minutes like fueling an ICE auto, that EV's will take off.