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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    By Drew Dowdell •

    CES 2019: Harley-Davidson Livewire

      Harley-Davidson's first production electric bike is now available for pre-order, but it will cost you.

    At the Consumer Electronics Show on Monday, Harley-Davidson announced the production version of the Livewire all-electric bike would go on sale in August of 2019 and pre-orders are open now.  The Livewire starts at $29,799.

    The estimated riding range for the Livewire is approximately 110 miles on an urban cycle.  With the onboard level 1 charger (a standard household outlet), the bike will charge overnight. Level 2 and Level 3 DC fast charging is available while out on the road, but charging time has not been released.  Harley has stated that all dealers that sell the Livewire will have chargers on-site for public use.

    Harley states that the Livewire can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. That sounds fast for a car, but merely mid-pack for a motorcycle. 

    Harley-Davidson in investing heavily in electric motorcycles and expects to have a full portfolio of EV bikes available by 2022.

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    Drew Dowdell

    I'm a fan of its looks, not of the price.  Level 3 charging should be really quick.  If the Bolt gets 90 miles of range in 30 minutes on DC fast charging, this should do the same amount of range in a fraction of that... I would guess no more than 15 minutes max to get 90% of range.

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    G. David Felt
    51 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Well this won't sell at 30k. 

    I agree that this will sell in very limited numbers. I am now thinking this is a stop gap measure till they get a new global Electric Bike Platform out. More that this will be used to allow a bunch of test drives for people to get used to the idea of an Electric Bike and allow the dealerships to install their charging systems till the full family is ready to roll out in 2022.

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, dfelt said:

    I agree that this will sell in very limited numbers. I am now thinking this is a stop gap measure till they get a new global Electric Bike Platform out.

    They've been working on this platform since 2014. I think they're going to put a few bikes on it.

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    balthazar

    The only EVs, either automotive or 2-wheel, that are affordable / close to the median pricing of a new one, are those offered by mainstream corporations heavily invested in IC product that covers the EV loses.
    The livewire is not priced high to gouge the fan base, it's priced high because it costs so much to build.
    I now am of the opinion that it's pricing, not infrastructure or range anxiety that is the tallest obstacle to mainstream EV acceptance.

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    Drew Dowdell
    21 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    The only EVs, either automotive or 2-wheel, that are affordable / close to the median pricing of a new one, are those offered by mainstream corporations heavily invested in IC product that covers the EV loses.
    The livewire is not priced high to gouge the fan base, it's priced high because it costs so much to build.
    I now am of the opinion that it's pricing, not infrastructure or range anxiety that is the tallest obstacle to mainstream EV acceptance.

    The problem with that theory is Zero motorcycles . They have a bike that has roughly the same spec of the Livewire but is only $14,595.  Much more reasonable for a bike.

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    ccap41
    42 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I agree that this will sell in very limited numbers. I am now thinking this is a stop gap measure till they get a new global Electric Bike Platform out. More that this will be used to allow a bunch of test drives for people to get used to the idea of an Electric Bike and allow the dealerships to install their charging systems till the full family is ready to roll out in 2022.

    This isn't a global bike platform? If not, why in the hell wouldn't it be? This is their first production electric bike and they didn't make a global platform? That makes no sense to me at all. 

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    G. David Felt
    24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    This isn't a global bike platform? If not, why in the hell wouldn't it be? This is their first production electric bike and they didn't make a global platform? That makes no sense to me at all. 

    Yup I would totally agree, but then who knows, like Drew said, they have been working on this since 2014, so one would hope it is a global platform, but then companies have made major mistakes before.

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    Drew Dowdell
    37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    This isn't a global bike platform? If not, why in the hell wouldn't it be? This is their first production electric bike and they didn't make a global platform? That makes no sense to me at all. 

    At the moment, they are only targeting this for sale in the US and Europe.... I think partially due to prices. Would be hard to sell a $30k (plus tariff) H-D in China I would expect.

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    ykX
    53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The problem with that theory is Zero motorcycles . They have a bike that has roughly the same spec of the Livewire but is only $14,595.  Much more reasonable for a bike.

    It would be really interesting if somebody will do a comparison when Livewire comes out with the Zero.  Probably the only thing HD has over Zero is dealer network, and I think it looks a little but better.  But it costs double.

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    Drew Dowdell
    10 minutes ago, ykX said:

    It would be really interesting if somebody will do a comparison when Livewire comes out with the Zero.  Probably the only thing HD has over Zero is dealer network, and I think it looks a little but better.  But it costs double.

    I'd love to do such a comparison.

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  • Posts

    • G. David Felt
      Subaru News: Subaru Reveals new 2026 Subaru Trailseeker

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      Interesting, according to the website your Navigator has a 23 gallon tank compared to the 32 gallon tank my escalade has. Looked up the certified fuel pump filling speed, 23 gallons take 7 min. The gas industry has stated that the average 20 to 24 gallon fuel fill up take on average 8 minutes due to temperature, pump speed, how clean the fuel filter is in the pump equipment, etc. of course they also say the larger the tank the longer the fueling. So depending on how much gas you have in your tank it could be much shorter. So if you have a quarter tank of gas and are filling up, I can see this taking 5 min.
    • ccap41
      Subaru News: Subaru Reveals new 2026 Subaru Trailseeker

      By ccap41 · Posted

      We live in different worlds, brother. It does not take more than 5 minutes at a pump to fill my Navigator. If I decide to walk inside and grab something to eat or drink, sure the time goes up. Just filling a tank though, 5 minutes. 
    • G. David Felt
      Subaru News: Subaru Reveals new 2026 Subaru Trailseeker

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      Refill time is only true if your driving a Subcompact or compact, much longer for mid size and especially full size ICE fuel tanks and then if you fuel at Costco or Walmart with their fuel discount, plan to spend 10 to 15 min in line if not longer before getting to the pump. Published paper from Standford University shows the average EV battery will also last 38% longer than current expected life as stated by the auto industry with the University requesting that auto companies test more realistically their battery packs. Dynamic cycling enhances battery lifetime | Nature Energy
    • ccap41
      Subaru News: Subaru Reveals new 2026 Subaru Trailseeker

      By ccap41 · Posted

      I get that some are worse than others but a general 30% is pretty standard for the industry, as a whole. Yes, I'd need independent research for something I'd actually be buying, but most of those numbers aren't all that great.  Yes, I also realize that ICE vehicles lose about the same efficiency in the winter months as well. But, we also all know it only takes 5-10 minutes to replenish an ICE tank in the winter.
    • G. David Felt
      Subaru News: Subaru Reveals new 2026 Subaru Trailseeker

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      You have one problem here; your generalized 30% loss is not true for all EVs. More current testing shows that depending on the maker the range can be big like you stated but also very small. Hyundai and Kia showing the smallest battery loss in winter extreme weather and Tesla showing some of the largest loss. Even other stories where extreme testing was done in some of the most extreme Northern European countries showed at most around a 20% range hit on the latest EVs and of course up to 57% hit on 5-year-old EVs. Which brings up the value of a Heat Pump over traditional ICE heater, enhanced insulation of the battery pack, liquid temp managements and so many other new technologies that have been applied to the latest models. We have changed in 10 years what took Ice 50 years to do. This will continue to improve. Keep in mind that Tesla was the golden yard stick that every auto maker took and built to be equal or exceed them Testing reported in December 2024 New Study Reveals Which EV Models Lose the Least Range in Winter - Vehicle Research - Automotive Fleet Here a story from February 2025 of independent testing also showing the losses not as bad as you generalized depending on who you pick https://cleantechnica.com/2025/02/10/recurrent-data-clarifies-ev-range-loss-in-cold-conditions/

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