Rumorpile: Mercedes-AMG To Add Mild Hybrid Setup to 53 Series

Meh -  Clearly MB has NOT learned from the Honda mess where people had a mild Hybrid system that added extra performance and no real MPG or pure ev only mode and as such did not really buy them in quantity to support production.

Benz first hybrid failure is how I see this. Wasted efforts that could go into better assembly, EV's and overall real Hybrids that actually give you this performance plus some battery drive time.

Benz's naming scheme is completely bonkers. 

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Benz's naming scheme is completely bonkers. 

Agreed, what the hell does 53 mean or represent? Why not call it what it appears to be a CLS AMG Hybrid? Why CLS 53? Makes ZERO sense to me! FAILURE is all I see with this car.

Weird...the current AMG CLS is a 63--not a 43, since 5.5L supercharged V8 = 63 (some mystery math).    So they are downgrading the CLS AMG from a 5.5L V8 to a 3.0 6?  weird...they probably didn't want to use 'hybrid' in the name as that implies green and clean, not high performance which the AMG brand is supposed to be about...calling something an 'AMG Hybrid' would be as repellent as a 'V-series Hybrid' or 'M series Hybrid'.... 

Maybe the article meant the C-class, which is new now, and has an AMG 43 model, and 3.0 turbo = 43. 

It's not mystery math, it's Daimler's convoluted "marketing displacement'.

IE: the 'S550' is ACTUALLY an 'S470'... so they can't call it a 'CLS AMG550' even tho it actually is a 5.5L - that's already taken.  Instead they jump out of their 'system' and use a nonsensical '63'.

IIRC, I read a few years ago they went with 63 as a reference back to the legendary 6.3. 

How does that explain the 43 in the CLA?

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How does that explain the 43 in the CLA?

It doesn't.   2.0 +turbo = 45.

I love the idea of the 48 volt with the inline engine, this is supposed to be 15-20% more efficient than the current 3.0 V6 which gets 18/25 mpg in the middle weight E-class.  So we are probably looking at 22/29 mpg on a 475 hp sedan.  They are adding this to the 4 cylinder too, which will be really good for the mainstream stuff.

As far as naming scheme goes, I always thought they could keep it simple with 300, 400, 500.  But then you run into a problem were an E500 has a 3 liter turbo 6 and an S500 has a V8.  So the AMG 63 and 53 thing sort of makes sense.  

48 volt will be standard on all Mercedes.  Plug in Hybrid and EV will have some sort of EQ Power badging.

Why does system voltage change the fuel economy of the car? (Honest question)

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Why does system voltage change the fuel economy of the car? (Honest question)

No alternator drain, since there is no alternator, saves some weight too.  The electric motor gives a boost from start, lowering rpm on the gas engine, makes the start/stop system smoother, regen braking powers the battery.  Not sure if it will be on all engines, but Mercedes is using an electric turbo on their hyper car, I think they can E-turbo with 48 Volt.

Audi A6, A7, A8 are going to 48 volt too

4 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

It doesn't.   2.0 +turbo = 45.

German math...

... it's why Hitler thought he had an army to invade Russia...

Obviously, Germans have not gotten any smarter either.

So the gain in mpg is not from the change to 48 volt but from the change to a mild hybrid system....  So Mercedes is following the 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line (36 battery / 42 volt charging system) 

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

So the gain in mpg is not from the change to 48 volt but from the change to a mild hybrid system....  So Mercedes is following the 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line (36 battery / 42 volt charging system) 

Makes sense actually...

The 48 Volt system lets you make it a mild hybrid though.  And a much better version than what is out there now, and for way cheaper than something like a Prius set up.  And you have an integrated starter/generator, you get rid of the alternator, get rid of drive belts, run everything off electricity.  That cuts parasitic losses, also improves packaging.  The E-turbo comes into play too, less plumbing, less turbo lag, etc.

Every car is going to do this, Mercedes and Audi are just the first ones.   Continental and Delphi have these systems in the works too and they think it will add 13% fuel economy at like $800 cost to the car.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 48 Volt system lets you make it a mild hybrid though.  And a much better version than what is out there now, and for way cheaper than something like a Prius set up.  And you have an integrated starter/generator, you get rid of the alternator, get rid of drive belts, run everything off electricity.  That cuts parasitic losses, also improves packaging.  The E-turbo comes into play too, less plumbing, less turbo lag, etc.

Every car is going to do this, Mercedes and Audi are just the first ones.   Continental and Delphi have these systems in the works too and they think it will add 13% fuel economy at like $800 cost to the car.

It's amazing.... Mercedes was the first with airbags too even though Oldsmobile came out with them 6 years prior...

Now Mercedes is the first to do a mild hybrid a full 10 years after General Motors and 18 years after Honda.

All of the mild hybrid systems that GM and Honda did were 36volt - 42 volt systems.... another 6 volts is immaterial. 

Yes, I know that a mild hybrid drops the alternator.. (not really, but I'll work with your error).  We did an article on it 5 years ago. 

but Mercedes is first. 

I don't see GM's BAS system adding 70 hp.  If so they could have the 2.5 inline 4 up to about 250 horsepower and the 2.0t up to 330-340 and then they could take the 3.6 V6 out of production.  And expand use of the 3.0 turbo and hybrid that.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don't see GM's BAS system adding 70 hp.  If so they could have the 2.5 inline 4 up to about 250 horsepower and the 2.0t up to 330-340 and then they could take the 3.6 V6 out of production.  And expand use of the 3.0 turbo and hybrid that.

The BAS system is just a matter of scale not voltage.  10 years ago when GM was first developing it, lithium ion batteries were not even an option from a cost perspective. 

Don't go walking around claiming Mercedes does something first when all they did was take a decade old proven concept and update it with some newer tech. 

And GM was already running everything but the A/C compressor off electric back then.  The eAssist engines have electric oil pumps, electric water pumps.  The belt in an eAssist car only has 3 stops.  Crank, A/C, and the Alternator-Starter

55 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The BAS system is just a matter of scale not voltage.  10 years ago when GM was first developing it, lithium ion batteries were not even an option from a cost perspective. 

Don't go walking around claiming Mercedes does something first when all they did was take a decade old proven concept and update it with some newer tech. 

I never said they were first, the 2017 Audi SQ7 has it now, they are actually first, it just isn't sold in the USA.  It has 2 turbos and an electric supercharger, on a 4 liter V8, but it is a diesel, we'll never get it here.  Audi says it gets 30-32 mpg US, and it has 435 hp and 664 lb-ft of torque.   But if they can do it, Mercedes can do it, they should be able to get 30 mpg on a GLE or GLS with a 3 liter straight six.