Mercedes bringing A-Class to US; heads further down market

5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ill answer this as well!

Nope. The CLA is not a car I EVER aspire to own. Not even the AMG. Id rather the Fusion Sport and the Malibu Premier. Yes over the AMG  version also!

 

Both of us are way too old for the CLA--it's aimed clearly at Millenials... the only current Mercedes I really like strongly is the CLS---out of my price range new, and I wouldn't seriously consider one as a CPO without a really long, full warranty... 

Agree almost entirely with Olds... Malibu premier over CLA... Fusion Sport also...

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Both of us are way too old for the CLA--it's aimed clearly at Millenials... the only current Mercedes I really like strongly is the CLS---out of my price range new, and I wouldn't seriously consider one as a CPO without a really long, full warranty... 

The last Mercedes products I really liked were from the 60s and 70s...fair to say the factory warranty on every last one of those things is long since expired.

I hear you, but under the traditional descriptors, the Mustang, Camaro & Challenger are actually 2-dr sedans; they have rear quarter windows.  "Coupe' is a derivative of 'close-coupled'; a truncated or short greenhouse.  

It's not that a Mustang may have frameless side glass, it's that it has rear quarter windows (and a back seat). It's not 'close-coupled' at all. But all the terms are bastardized now.

Tho the below was called out in marketing, ("2-dr sedan" vs. "hardtop coupe"), how different were they really?

21 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Both of us are way too old for the CLA--it's aimed clearly at Millenials...

According to an automotive marketing blog from April 2017 I just looked at, you're fine; the ABA of the CLA is 46 years old.

BTW, the same blog stated the overall average ABA of Mercedes is 57... but different sources report different numbers.

Just now, balthazar said:

According to an automotive marketing blog from April 2017 I just looked at, you're fine; the ABA of the CLA is 46 years old.

BTW, the same blog stated the overall average ABA of Mercedes is 57... but different sources report different numbers.

Interesting...I assumed the CLA's average age was about 30 at most.   It seems like an entry level youth model, like the BMW 2 series, Audi A3, etc.

39 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Both of us are way too old for the CLA--it's aimed clearly at Millenials... the only current Mercedes I really like strongly is the CLS---out of my price range new, and I wouldn't seriously consider one as a CPO without a really long, full warranty... 

I LOVE THE CLS MYSELF!!!

Every CLS ever made.

I like 4 door coupes in general. Like you though, I would never buy a used luxury car and I would never spend 100 000 had earned dollars on a car. Only on a classic as a retirement gift to myself!

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

I LOVE THE CLS MYSELF!!!

Every CLS ever made.

I like 4 door coupes in general. Like you though, I would never buy a used luxury car and I would never spend 100 000 had earned dollars on a car. Only on a classic as a retirement gift to myself!

I like both generations... a beautiful car, IMO..esp. in profile..love the arched roofline.  very dramatic..and they've been available in brown.   

29 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Interesting...I assumed the CLA's average age was about 30 at most.   It seems like an entry level youth model, like the BMW 2 series, Audi A3, etc.

I don't think there's a single model anywhere with an ABA of 30. Maybe the Can Am Spyder.
Mustang ABA of a few years ago is around 50- and that's a far 'younger appealing' car than the appliance CLA.

Mercedes is an old fart brand, CLA is not going to turn that around; there's nothing about it to do so (especially price).

EDIT :: Found this from April '17 RE Ford :

>>"While the average age of a new Fiesta buyer is 45 years old, the average age of a Fiesta ST customer is a good 10 years younger.  Buyers of Ford Focus follow the same pattern; the average age of a regular Focus buyer is 46, while the Focus RS customer is 41 on average and the Focus ST buyer is 36. Fusion customers are 48 on average, while Fusion Sport buyers are an average 45 years old."<<

So the best number there is about 36 for a specific model/trim. Same source also reported that the average income for the Fiesta buyer was $59K, but for the Fiesta ST is was $102K.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Yes, technically; it absolutely is. The only American 2-dr coupes that come quickly to mind are the Corvette & Viper.
SMK thinks a "4-dr coupe" is an actual thing, and all 2-doors are 'coupes'.

No, a 4 door coupe is pretty much a sedan.   But Cadillac has 1 coupe and 0 convertibles.   Mercedes has 4, 2-door coupes and 6 convertibles, which I even think is a bit excessive.  Hard to criticize Mercedes as bland though, when they have ten 2-door cars, 20 some AMG products, hard core off roaders, etc.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

  And the Escalade can't go off road, it is GLS competitor.  

Wrong, Totally Wrong, you are really blowing blue smoke past your butt ring of a so called piston. Escalades CAN and DO go off road. Just the badge snobs of even Cadillac think they are above going on dirt trails. I love my top of the line Escalade ESV Platinum and I DO take it off road.

I give you our trip in 2015 after my wife graduated from the UW here in Seattle, we went to the Canadian Rockies for a couple weeks, drove all over the national park and many dirt roads that you want a 4x4 or awd. We went to Swansea Mtn. exhibit A:

The drive up a dirt road that gets access to their mountain bike trails and while this does not seem bad here, there where many washed out places that you need to be aware of approach and departure angles especially with a big SUV like mine.

The road got you to the 5000 ft level of the mountain where you then had to hike the rest of the way to the top.

Exhibit B:

Trail Head to the top of Swansea Mtn. My lovely wife!

Exhibit C:

Steep trail to the top of the mountain.

Exhibit D:

Top of the mountain at 5665. 

They paraglide off this mountain. 

Exhibit E the crazy runway!  

Exhibit F: The View to the west.

Then we drove back down and off to the next crazy trail we could find as we explored local places most people do not go.

So Escalades can and do go off road.

50 minutes ago, balthazar said:

According to an automotive marketing blog from April 2017 I just looked at, you're fine; the ABA of the CLA is 46 years old.

BTW, the same blog stated the overall average ABA of Mercedes is 57... but different sources report different numbers.

That is probably very accurate.  Mercedes as brand has a high 50s buyer age and has for the past decade or so.  CLA at 46 makes sense, it is going for people that never bought a Mercedes and the younger buyer.  And the industry average new car buyer is near 50 as it is.  Young people can't afford new car prices.

54 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Interesting...I assumed the CLA's average age was about 30 at most.   It seems like an entry level youth model, like the BMW 2 series, Audi A3, etc.

No one that age can afford auto's today!   Too much debt from over living a non-sustainable lifestyle in college.

A few years back, Mercedes was in the lower 50s; 53-54, but like I said; different sources state different numbers (tho close). over a decades' time, EVERYBODY's numbers are inching up...tho the gap between mercedes & Cadillac is around only 2 years now.

The current U.S. ABA is 51 going on 52.

An Escalade has limited off road ability.  It doesn't have great approach or departure angles, it doesn't have locking differentials, and it even has a solid rear axle, doesn't have adjustable height suspension, etc.   Escalade would never keep up with a Range Rover or G-class in severe off roading.   I think only a Wrangler could match the G-class off road.

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

An Escalade has limited off road ability.  It doesn't have great approach or departure angles, it doesn't have locking differentials, and it even has a solid rear axle, doesn't have adjustable height suspension, etc.   Escalade would never keep up with a Range Rover or G-class in severe off roading.   I think only a Wrangler could match the G-class off road.

Escalade can keep up and beat pretty much everything MB had in the CUV class and except when well equipped, the only SUV MB has in the Dinosaur of a G-wagon, it pretty much can keep up with it too. G-Wagons are pretty much no different than any other much cheaper 4x4 in base form.

Just accept the fact that MB does not have anything that actually does compete Apple to Apple with the Escalade.

33 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

An Escalade has limited off road ability.  It doesn't have great approach or departure angles ...

Just looked at a Russian comparison test of the previous gen Escalade, Range Rover & GL500. GL & E have same departure angles (26 & 25 deg)- so the GL doesn't apparently have a great departure angle either. Front was markedly different (28 vs. 17) but the E had a far better side lift stability number (19" vs. 16").

They also had this to report (via Google translate) :

Cadillac with the all-wheel drive system through a free, asymmetrical center-to-center differential without a downshift and a low front bumper hardly thought of as a serious "rascal". Imagine our surprise when the "American" showed impressive moves of suspension and clearance, almost like the GL 500 with the top position of the air suspension!

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

An Escalade has limited off road ability.  It doesn't have great approach or departure angles, it doesn't have locking differentials, and it even has a solid rear axle, doesn't have adjustable height suspension, etc.   Escalade would never keep up with a Range Rover or G-class in severe off roading.   I think only a Wrangler could match the G-class off road.

Right... because serious off roaders always want a hundred grand vehicle for serious off road work...

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

No one that age can afford auto's today!   Too much debt from over living a non-sustainable lifestyle in college.

My wife works with people getting financial aid.  She routinely sees people graduating sixy grand in debt with an associate's degree from a community college.

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

Wrong, Totally Wrong, you are really blowing blue smoke past your butt ring of a so called piston. Escalades CAN and DO go off road. Just the badge snobs of even Cadillac think they are above going on dirt trails. I love my top of the line Escalade ESV Platinum and I DO take it off road.

I give you our trip in 2015 after my wife graduated from the UW here in Seattle, we went to the Canadian Rockies for a couple weeks, drove all over the national park and many dirt roads that you want a 4x4 or awd. We went to Swansea Mtn. exhibit A:

The drive up a dirt road that gets access to their mountain bike trails and while this does not seem bad here, there where many washed out places that you need to be aware of approach and departure angles especially with a big SUV like mine.

The road got you to the 5000 ft level of the mountain where you then had to hike the rest of the way to the top.

Exhibit B:

Trail Head to the top of Swansea Mtn. My lovely wife!

Exhibit C:

Steep trail to the top of the mountain.

Exhibit D:

Top of the mountain at 5665. 

They paraglide off this mountain. 

Exhibit E the crazy runway!  

Exhibit F: The View to the west.

Then we drove back down and off to the next crazy trail we could find as we explored local places most people do not go.

So Escalades can and do go off road.

But you are not doing hard core off roading...the Escalade is perfectly capable in it's element.

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

But you are not doing hard core off roading...the Escalade is perfectly capable in it's element.

Agreed- that dirt road is not what we're talking about RE 'off-roading'.

But what we ARE referring to- neither the Escalade or the g-wagoon ever see.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Agreed- that dirt road is not what we're talking about RE 'off-roading'.

But what we ARE referring to- neither the Escalade or the g-wagoon ever see.

...and if that is your thing....the Grand Cherokee has the Mercedes products beat at a price point they can't dream of touching in their wildest wet dream.

21 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and if that is your thing....the Grand Cherokee has the Mercedes products beat at a price point they can't dream of touching in their wildest wet dream.

...and keep in mind the Merc GLE (formerly ML) is based off of the WK2 Grand Cherokee platform...I'm not sure what all is in common--presumably floorplan, firewall, various dirty bits... there appear to be interior hard point similarities I've noticed as well (position of door releases, dash vents, light switch, etc)...I know MB has it's own engines and transmissions....  Don't know about the suspension, though.    The GLS (formerly GL) is on a stretched version of this platform, I think? 

You can get portal axles on the G550 and get 24 inches of ground clearance which I believe doubles what the F150 Raptor has.  Think about that, double the ground clearance of a Raptor which is made for off roading.  

The GLE and GLS share a platform updated in 2012 from a platform shared with the mid 2000s Grand Cherokee and ML.  I read GLE and GLS may move to a version of the MRA platform next year, which will cut serious weight.

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

Just looked at a Russian comparison test of the previous gen Escalade, Range Rover & GL500. GL & E have same departure angles (26 & 25 deg)- so the GL doesn't apparently have a great departure angle either. Front was markedly different (28 vs. 17) but the E had a far better side lift stability number (19" vs. 16").

They also had this to report (via Google translate) :

Cadillac with the all-wheel drive system through a free, asymmetrical center-to-center differential without a downshift and a low front bumper hardly thought of as a serious "rascal". Imagine our surprise when the "American" showed impressive moves of suspension and clearance, almost like the GL 500 with the top position of the air suspension!

The GL/GLS are probably similar to Escalade off road, but the G-wagen in unmatched.  A G550 has 30 degree approach and departure angles these go to 51 front and 43 rear on the 4x4 squared model.  G550 can wade 23.6 inches of water, 39.4 on the 4x4 squared.

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You can get portal axles on the G550 and get 24 inches of ground clearance which I believe doubles what the F150 Raptor has.  Think about that, double the ground clearance of a Raptor which is made for off roading.  

The GLE and GLS share a platform updated in 2012 from a platform shared with the mid 2000s Grand Cherokee and ML.  I read GLE and GLS may move to a version of the MRA platform next year, which will cut serious weight.

Actually up voting this as this is what I want,  actual automotive content, thank you.

Cool that Benz builds this....at the same time for serious off roading one can modify a much cheaper vehicle for much less than the Benz I would presume.

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

I don't think there's a single model anywhere with an ABA of 30. Maybe the Can Am Spyder.
Mustang ABA of a few years ago is around 50- and that's a far 'younger appealing' car than the appliance CLA.

Mercedes is an old fart brand, CLA is not going to turn that around; there's nothing about it to do so (especially price).

 

EDIT :: Found this from April '17 RE Ford :

>>"While the average age of a new Fiesta buyer is 45 years old, the average age of a Fiesta ST customer is a good 10 years younger.  Buyers of Ford Focus follow the same pattern; the average age of a regular Focus buyer is 46, while the Focus RS customer is 41 on average and the Focus ST buyer is 36. Fusion customers are 48 on average, while Fusion Sport buyers are an average 45 years old."<<

So the best number there is about 36 for a specific model/trim. Same source also reported that the average income for the Fiesta buyer was $59K, but for the Fiesta ST is was $102K.

...and word on the street is a lot of people with money who bought these (Fiesta ST) were expecting much better automobiles.  The gentleman in the profile pic with me owns an orange one...he is selling it as soon as it goes out of warranty due to the number of other Fiesta ST owners he knows who are having major issues with their cars.

Mercedes, where you can raise the bar by lowering it. 

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Mercedes, where you can raise the bar by lowering it. 

As the proud owner of a fifteen year old MINI Cooper S and a VW Beetle it's not often I get to look down on other vehicles with a smug sense of superiority...but given the Benz in the OP....I now have at least one...

11 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

As the proud owner of a fifteen year old MINI Cooper S and a VW Beetle it's not often I get to look down on other vehicles with a smug sense of superiority...but given the Benz in the OP....I now have at least one...

The Mini Cooper S is a cool enthusiast's car.

It handles extremely well. Its fun to drive.

Its fun to look at!

It puts a smile on your face whether you are behind the wheel or just a pedestrian looking at it!

Its got a loyal following! Its a CULT classic original AND modern retro.

The VW Bug too!

I wouldnt ever dare put these two cars down!

Well....the original VW KdF Wagen is a different story...but even then...it was built for the good people of Germany in mind....not a bad thing!

On 6/21/2017 at 9:23 PM, smk4565 said:

While everyone was concerned with Mercedes move down market, they forgot the other half of this story, also coming in 2018 is this nice 805 hp V8 hybrid sedan.  Which is actually the 2nd most powerful car they are releasing in 2018, and also when what ever the track record on the Nurburgring is goes down.

 

Who cares? They'll sell 20 of them... All to Saudi Arabia.

46 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Who cares? They'll sell 20 of them... All to Saudi Arabia.

Exactly...

I am much more into accessable cars I can have fun with.  Actually prefer the Miata to the Benz in question.

I have talked with so many coworkers and friends that have MB or BMW's and have gone to the other brand and not come back. Recently Cadillac is winning MB and BMW owners as I am seeing more new Cadillacs in the parking garage downstairs. 

I really challenge the thinking that those that buy the cheap Chevy / Toyota versions of MB will come back for a higher level trim version. I see this being like 1% at best.

I believe MB is watering down their image that they built here in the US. As such, it will come back to bite them as consumers find better products with better value from other vendors.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

I have talked with so many coworkers and friends that have MB or BMW's and have gone to the other brand and not come back. Recently Cadillac is winning MB and BMW owners as I am seeing more new Cadillacs in the parking garage downstairs. 

I really challenge the thinking that those that buy the cheap Chevy / Toyota versions of MB will come back for a higher level trim version. I see this being like 1% at best.

I believe MB is watering down their image that they built here in the US. As such, it will come back to bite them as consumers find better products with better value from other vendors.

Thankfully, yes...Cadillac is just so much more interesting visually than the Benz or BMW.

On 6/21/2017 at 7:23 PM, smk4565 said:

While everyone was concerned with Mercedes move down market, they forgot the other half of this story, also coming in 2018 is this nice 805 hp V8 hybrid sedan.  Which is actually the 2nd most powerful car they are releasing in 2018, and also when what ever the track record on the Nurburgring is goes down.

 

The fallacy of your argument is that you expect the higher end market from Benz, not an increase in the bottom feeder market. 

On 6/21/2017 at 7:23 PM, smk4565 said:

While everyone was concerned with Mercedes move down market, they forgot the other half of this story, also coming in 2018 is this nice 805 hp V8 hybrid sedan.  Which is actually the 2nd most powerful car they are releasing in 2018, and also when what ever the track record on the Nurburgring is goes down.

 

So few will be sold as it will essentially be another Halo auto in the multitude of Halo auto's mostly owned by the Arab rim.

Bigger discussion is the false assumption by Benz that having Cheap auto's that compete against Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota will give future sales of upgrading to more expensive auto's down the road.  Marketing has proven this to be a lie. Many people do not move up from Economy class to mid class to luxury class in the same family of auto's. This is why we have clear Luxury product lines. 

Down the road in 3-5 years I actually expect these low cost Eco box's from Benz to HURT their Luxury level here in the states.

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

The fallacy of your argument is that you expect the higher end market from Benz, not an increase in the bottom feeder market. 

Not just yes but hell yes....

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

So few will be sold as it will essentially be another Halo auto in the multitude of Halo auto's mostly owned by the Arab rim.

Bigger discussion is the false assumption by Benz that having Cheap auto's that compete against Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota will give future sales of upgrading to more expensive auto's down the road.  Marketing has proven this to be a lie. Many people do not move up from Economy class to mid class to luxury class in the same family of auto's. This is why we have clear Luxury product lines. 

Down the road in 3-5 years I actually expect these low cost Eco box's from Benz to HURT their Luxury level here in the states.

I could care less....I have absolutely zero interest in Benz....if every Benz factory on the planet shut down tomorrow and never re opened it would not bother me a bit.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

So few will be sold as it will essentially be another Halo auto in the multitude of Halo auto's mostly owned by the Arab rim.

Bigger discussion is the false assumption by Benz that having Cheap auto's that compete against Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota will give future sales of upgrading to more expensive auto's down the road.  Marketing has proven this to be a lie. Many people do not move up from Economy class to mid class to luxury class in the same family of auto's. This is why we have clear Luxury product lines. 

Down the road in 3-5 years I actually expect these low cost Eco box's from Benz to HURT their Luxury level here in the states.

Won't hurt them one bit.  C-class sales have gone up since the CLA launch, E-class sales are up this year, and this is when sedans at most luxury brands are down 25%.  S-class is still #1 in its segment by a comfortable margin.  2015 was a record years in sales and net profit for Mercedes, 2016 they broke the 2015 record.  So the numbers say the CLA has not hurt.  

What is important about the AMG GT sedan, and Project One, is that electrification is coming to AMG.  And what will spread through out the line, all the way down to the CLA eventually.  This will allow for smaller, more fuel efficient engines with more power.  So no, the high end hybrids won't sell big numbers, but they pave the way for the technology.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Won't hurt them one bit.  C-class sales have gone up since the CLA launch, E-class sales are up this year, and this is when sedans at most luxury brands are down 25%.  S-class is still #1 in its segment by a comfortable margin.  2015 was a record years in sales and net profit for Mercedes, 2016 they broke the 2015 record.  So the numbers say the CLA has not hurt.  

What is important about the AMG GT sedan, and Project One, is that electrification is coming to AMG.  And what will spread through out the line, all the way down to the CLA eventually.  This will allow for smaller, more fuel efficient engines with more power.  So no, the high end hybrids won't sell big numbers, but they pave the way for the technology.

Why did I know it would always come back to the S class being #1...

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Won't hurt them one bit.  C-class sales have gone up since the CLA launch, E-class sales are up this year, and this is when sedans at most luxury brands are down 25%.  S-class is still #1 in its segment by a comfortable margin.  2015 was a record years in sales and net profit for Mercedes, 2016 they broke the 2015 record.  So the numbers say the CLA has not hurt.  

What is important about the AMG GT sedan, and Project One, is that electrification is coming to AMG.  And what will spread through out the line, all the way down to the CLA eventually.  This will allow for smaller, more fuel efficient engines with more power.  So no, the high end hybrids won't sell big numbers, but they pave the way for the technology.

All achieved by increasing cheap Leases. Most of the gains are people that could not truly afford a Benz auto. Eventually this will cost them and hurt them more than help. Get ready for a glut of depressed prices once all the lease auto's come back in. The last few years MB has grown market share due to the reduced cost of leases that allowed people who would normally not be able to afford them drive one.  Be interesting to see the condition they come back in.

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

All achieved by increasing cheap Leases. Most of the gains are people that could not truly afford a Benz auto. Eventually this will cost them and hurt them more than help. Get ready for a glut of depressed prices once all the lease auto's come back in. The last few years MB has grown market share due to the reduced cost of leases that allowed people who would normally not be able to afford them drive one.  Be interesting to see the condition they come back in.

I wish them no harm but i don't really wish them well either.

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Won't hurt them one bit.  C-class sales have gone up since the CLA launch, E-class sales are up this year, and this is when sedans at most luxury brands are down 25%.  S-class is still #1 in its segment by a comfortable margin.  2015 was a record years in sales and net profit for Mercedes, 2016 they broke the 2015 record.  So the numbers say the CLA has not hurt.  

What is important about the AMG GT sedan, and Project One, is that electrification is coming to AMG.  And what will spread through out the line, all the way down to the CLA eventually.  This will allow for smaller, more fuel efficient engines with more power.  So no, the high end hybrids won't sell big numbers, but they pave the way for the technology.

C-Class sales have gone up since it is no longer terribly outdated.  It has nothing to do with the CLA. 

21 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

C-Class sales have gone up since it is no longer terribly outdated.  It has nothing to do with the CLA. 

Quoted for truth.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

All achieved by increasing cheap Leases. Most of the gains are people that could not truly afford a Benz auto. Eventually this will cost them and hurt them more than help. Get ready for a glut of depressed prices once all the lease auto's come back in. The last few years MB has grown market share due to the reduced cost of leases that allowed people who would normally not be able to afford them drive one.  Be interesting to see the condition they come back in.

But yet their ATP is higher than Cadillac, GASP!  And they sell more $100,000 cars than anyone else in the world, Double GASP!

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

C-Class sales have gone up since it is no longer terribly outdated.  It has nothing to do with the CLA. 

The C-class is a very well executed car, but it is also $5-7,000 more than some of its competitors and it outsells them all, since BMW split the 3 and 4 series up.   If the CLA was the only way Mercedes got sales then the C-class outsell the CLA 4 to 1 and the GLE wouldn't be the #2 seller at the brand.  You can't say the CLA hurts the brand, when the rest of the brand is doing well.

 The GLE is priced like a CT6.  If the CT6 had GLE volume, Mary Barra and Johan DeNysschen would be throwing wheel barrows of cash off the top floor of Renaissance Center and dancing in the streets because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

49 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The C-class is a very well executed car, but it is also $5-7,000 more than some of its competitors and it outsells them all, since BMW split the 3 and 4 series up.   If the CLA was the only way Mercedes got sales then the C-class outsell the CLA 4 to 1 and the GLE wouldn't be the #2 seller at the brand.  You can't say the CLA hurts the brand, when the rest of the brand is doing well.

 The GLE is priced like a CT6.  If the CT6 had GLE volume, Mary Barra and Johan DeNysschen would be throwing wheel barrows of cash off the top floor of Renaissance Center and dancing in the streets because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

I will quite happily grant you that the C class is a well executed car.

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

C-Class sales have gone up since it is no longer terribly outdated.  It has nothing to do with the CLA. 

don't forget the fact that it looks exactly like the S-Class, 'cept smaller.. 

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But yet their ATP is higher than Cadillac, GASP!  And they sell more $100,000 cars than anyone else in the world, Double GASP!

Their ATP is only SLIGHTLY higher than Cadillac's.. despite selling more $100K cars than anyone else in the world... That son son.. is a fuckin problem.. GASP ON THAT MOFO

I know it is high and that MB has been driving sales by lowering lease rates to get more people into their badge. With that said, 

Interesting read, from 2014 so 3 years old, but at this time Mercedes Benz was leasing 60% of new car sales and states they fear the hundreds of thousands of off lease auto's coming back will overwhelm their dealerships and as such they will have to dump them on the used 3rd party auto market.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140414/RETAIL/140419915/mercedes-dealers-in-u.s.-could-be-overwhelmed-by-wave-of-off-lease

Very interesting. I have to assume that they are still this high if not higher. Leasing is going to hurt at some time the market for their auto's.

Been looking, but I wish one could easily find the Percentage of Leasing to buying for each auto OEM.

47 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I know it is high and that MB has been driving sales by lowering lease rates to get more people into their badge. With that said, 

Interesting read, from 2014 so 3 years old, but at this time Mercedes Benz was leasing 60% of new car sales and states they fear the hundreds of thousands of off lease auto's coming back will overwhelm their dealerships and as such they will have to dump them on the used 3rd party auto market.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140414/RETAIL/140419915/mercedes-dealers-in-u.s.-could-be-overwhelmed-by-wave-of-off-lease

Very interesting. I have to assume that they are still this high if not higher. Leasing is going to hurt at some time the market for their auto's.

Been looking, but I wish one could easily find the Percentage of Leasing to buying for each auto OEM.

I think this bypasses the critical question-what do they have to offer us at a reasonable price as enthusiasts?

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I think this bypasses the critical question-what do they have to offer us at a reasonable price as enthusiasts?

Metris seems pretty reasonable...get the cargo van version for under 30k, add shag carpeting and a sofa bed, custom paint....

The Metris is pretty sweet.  You can get power heated seats, blind spot monitoring, active lane keep assist, radar cruise control, rain sense wipers, Sat-Nav turbo, 7-speed, alloy wheels for like $33k.

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Metris is pretty sweet.  You can get power heated seats, blind spot monitoring, active lane keep assist, radar cruise control, rain sense wipers, Sat-Nav turbo, 7-speed, alloy wheels for like $33k.

Yeah, pretty sweet. You get a Pacifica Touring L without an interior and with a 7-speed instead of a 9-speed. 

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Yeah, pretty sweet. You get a Pacifica Touring L without an interior and with a 7-speed instead of a 9-speed. 

Pacifica doesn't have the 3 pointed star, though.. that alone is worth an extra 10 grand, probably?   (j/k)

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Metris is pretty sweet.  You can get power heated seats, blind spot monitoring, active lane keep assist, radar cruise control, rain sense wipers, Sat-Nav turbo, 7-speed, alloy wheels for like $33k.

That will buy me a used Hemi Challenger,  a passable used 911, a clean used Cayman, a CPO BMW Z4, a Mustang GT brand new, a Miata with 5 or ten grand in the bank, a Jeep grand Cherokee, a Used CTS-V,  a killer vintage Mustang.....lots of things I would rather own as an enthusiast....

29 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Pacifica doesn't have the 3 pointed star, though.. that alone is worth an extra 10 grand, in terms of operating costs?   (j/k)

Fixed that for ya...

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Metris seems pretty reasonable...get the cargo van version for under 30k, add shag carpeting and a sofa bed, custom paint....

Somehow it lacks the early 70's vibe of the van on Scoby Doo though...