Mercedes bringing A-Class to US; heads further down market

Mercedes keeps topping themselves in exercises of the pointless.

Do they have some sort of convoluted marketing research that is telling them a CLA is too large for some buyers, so another shorter model on the same dopey chassis is some sort of answer? The CLA already requires amputees-only in the rear seat, can't WAIT to read review of how utterly useless a shorter CLA is going to be. And looky-gee- the s-class coupe is going to share the same nose with yet a CHEAPER crapbox. But it's all OK because: SALESSALESSALESSALESSALES!

47 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Mercedes keeps topping themselves in exercises of the pointless.

Do they have some sort of convoluted marketing research that is telling them a CLA is too large for some buyers, so another shorter model on the same dopey chassis is some sort of answer? The CLA already requires amputees-only in the rear seat, can't WAIT to read review of how utterly useless a shorter CLA is going to be. And looky-gee- the s-class coupe is going to share the same nose with yet a CHEAPER crapbox. But it's all OK because: SALESSALESSALESSALESSALES!

Sorry for being philosophical but....when you are a kid you assume the world will be run by adults when you yourself become and adult.

Mercedes may well sell a lot of cars, but I am not really convinced they are run by adults...this marketing decision kind of backs up that feeling IMHO.

An A-class sedan makes no sense unless it is to replace the CLA.   It would be selling 2 of the same model basically.  What they need to do is give us this:

Why not? They make the Eclass and the CLS. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Why not? They make the Eclass and the CLS. 

They don't really need the CLS, but at least at that price point they are getting a pretty good up charge over the E-class.  The new E-class coupe looks stunning and it is larger than the old one since it isn't on a C-class chassis anymore.  Maybe they'll do a V8 in the CLS550 since there is no E550 anymore, I don't know, but there are some ways they can make it different from the E-class.  And they do more volume on the E-class than they do on the CLA/GLA.

The CLA and A-class sedan would be basically same size, same space, same power, similar body since the A-class sedan concept is sort of swoopy design anyway.  I'd rather see the hatchback to a 2nd sedan.

Hope they fit the rear seat/legroom issue on the clone!

It does seem odd to do a 2nd sedan off the A-class platform, unless the distinction is that the CLA is the 4dr 'coupe' and the new sedan will be more sedanish--more upright and have framed door glass...

7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

An A-class sedan makes no sense unless it is to replace the CLA.   It would be selling 2 of the same model basically.  What they need to do is give us this:

Gotta agree, if they are they going to waste the time to send it over here, might as well be different.

Not sure how well it is going to sell either way though.....

Lol, this is stupid.

1 hour ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Lol, this is stupid.

That has not stopped them before....I love German cars but for some reason cannot warm up to Benz.

Benz really needs a marque below the main brand.  Keep SMART even... just expand it to an actual lineup of real cars that people will buy. Platform share with real benz if needed. 

I liked my sister's old Benzes, even though they were high mileage money pits.  When they were in good running order, they had a bank vault solidity about them..

Of today's Benzes, the only ones I really like styling-wise are the CLS and AMG GT coupe. 

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Benz really needs a marque below the main brand.  Keep SMART even... just expand it to an actual lineup of real cars that people will buy. Platform share with real benz if needed. 

Maybe they should buy the Chrysler brands from FCA---have the Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and RAM brands below M-B...wait, they already tried that...

43 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Benz really needs a marque below the main brand.  Keep SMART even... just expand it to an actual lineup of real cars that people will buy. Platform share with real benz if needed. 

I like this idea, but I don't know about using the SMART name. I don't think it's looked upon very favorably or has much equity.

That said, I don't have any alternative ideas.

2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

I like this idea, but I don't know about using the SMART name. I don't think it's looked upon very favorably or has much equity.

That said, I don't have any alternative ideas.

I'm sure somewhere in the history of the company they have an old nameplate the can resurrect.  With SMART, there is no need for a new dealership network. No new logos.  Just an increase in inventory.  So few people know about SMART to care.

That said, I'd also suggest they re-launch as an exclusively EV and Plug-in Hybrid brand ala Prius or Ionq, with no purely gasoline models at all. 

I'm not sure if they need another brand..they just need to bring more A-class and B-class variants to the US if they want to cover the entry level market.   Outside the US, they have long been a broad-spectrum car maker from A-class to S-class and beyond, and then they have the whole range of commercial truck and bus models...

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I'm not sure if they need another brand..they just need to bring more A-class and B-class variants to the US if they want to cover the entry level market.   Outside the US, they have long been a broad-spectrum car maker from A-class to S-class and beyond, and then they have the whole range of commercial truck and bus models...

Nouveau riche and pseudo riche Americans are a funny lot.  They don't mind if their aspirational brands come down to meet their already stretched wallets, but don't go any lower than that.  With this new A-Class, Mercedes is now playing in mid-range Civic and Altima territory.  Sure, both of those cars are larger, but for social climbers who only see the badge, that won't matter.  And that will mean that a bunch of hoi polloi are devaluing the brand when they should be driving Civics.

It really should have been Benz who bought Opel, not PSA. 

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Benz really needs a marque below the main brand.  Keep SMART even... just expand it to an actual lineup of real cars that people will buy. Platform share with real benz if needed. 

There could be money to be made if Smart expanded and used the A-class platform for a compact sedan and a CLA size sedan, but in the $18k and $23k range respectively.  I am sure they could get a 1.4 liter turbo off Renault for the motor, and they could do a little crossover, maybe some EV versions of those.

I don't know if they really want to expand the range out that far though, or put money into that brand.  They are pretty busy with the Mercedes line as it is.  They are bringing the AMG GT sedan to the USA with possible 805 hp hybrid V8 powertrain.  Their future is really hybrid and electric rather than Smart brand.

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

There could be money to be made if Smart expanded and used the A-class platform for a compact sedan and a CLA size sedan, but in the $18k and $23k range respectively.  I am sure they could get a 1.4 liter turbo off Renault for the motor, and they could do a little crossover, maybe some EV versions of those.

I don't know if they really want to expand the range out that far though, or put money into that brand.  They are pretty busy with the Mercedes line as it is.  They are bringing the AMG GT sedan to the USA with possible 805 hp hybrid V8 powertrain.  Their future is really hybrid and electric rather than Smart brand.

That's assuming they could sell to the mouth breeding mouth breathing unwashed that pollute our highways with trash like the Sentra...not sure anyone ever built anything other than a trailer park or political party by aiming for the lowest possible point.

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 With this new A-Class, Mercedes is now playing in mid-range Civic and Altima territory.  Sure, both of those cars are larger, but for social climbers who only see the badge, that won't matter.  

The current CLA starts at a higher price than a Maxima or Lacrosse, and loaded goes higher than either of them also.  The CLA starts $300 less than an Acura TLX (their middle sedan) and $1,250 less than an Infiniti Q50.  They are playing low for Mercedes, but above the non-lux brands top offering, and right in line with the mid-range Acura and Infiniti.  

And there are some that will only see a badge, however if it was just a badge that mattered the CLA wouldn't get outsold by the C-class and E-class and I think even the S-class was close to outselling it last year.  And the GLC, GLE, and GLS all outsell the GLA.  

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The current CLA starts at a higher price than a Maxima or Lacrosse, and loaded goes higher than either of them also.  The CLA starts $300 less than an Acura TLX (their middle sedan) and $1,250 less than an Infiniti Q50.  They are playing low for Mercedes, but above the non-lux brands top offering, and right in line with the mid-range Acura and Infiniti.  

And there are some that will only see a badge, however if it was just a badge that mattered the CLA wouldn't get outsold by the C-class and E-class and I think even the S-class was close to outselling it last year.  And the GLC, GLE, and GLS all outsell the GLA.  

Acura TLX is infinitely nicer...

4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

That's assuming they could sell to the mouth breeding mouth breathing unwashed that pollute our highways with trash like the Sentra...not sure anyone ever built anything other than a trailer park or political party by aiming for the lowest possible point.

Well as I said, I don't think they have any interest in main stream product.  They could do a main stream brand, but why bother.  They pouring money into electric cars, they don't need a distraction.  I think it is a waste of time to offer two 4-doors off the front drive platform, they should have a 4-door, a hatchback and a GLA and GLB crossover, because crossovers are what sell.  The GLB is supposed to look like the off roader concept they had a couple years ago.  

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well as I said, I don't think they have any interest in main stream product.  They could do a main stream brand, but why bother.  They pouring money into electric cars, they don't need a distraction.  I think it is a waste of time to offer two 4-doors off the front drive platform, they should have a 4-door, a hatchback and a GLA and GLB crossover, because crossovers are what sell.  The GLB is supposed to look like the off roader concept they had a couple years ago.  

Actually the GLB might be something I find appealing...

Mercedes IS a mainstream brand.

Remember when MB was meant to be aspired to here in the States, with the prices to match?  Ever since the CLA was released to us here, it is as if MB is trying to be GM or VW without the mainstream brands to pull off.  The obvious question is: why would MB whore itself out just for a few more measly sales?

MB's largest market by far is China, and China is still has the largest potential for growth, I believe. Remember- 1 out of 2 S-classes are sold in China- it's why the model is stylistically bland & stoic.

The sales-focused MB wants to be at toyota-level sales numbers, and 'carpet bombing' every segment helps them get there. The A has been out in other markets prior to the U.S., but globally; if they have it they're going to stuff it in every market's catalog to boost numbers. So while there's absolutely no 'need' OR call for either the CLA or the A here, here they come.

I don't know off hand what the low-end Chinese market does in numbers, but obviously Mercedes knows.

11 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Remember when MB was meant to be aspired to here in the States, with the prices to match?  Ever since the CLA was released to us here, it is as if MB is trying to be GM or VW without the mainstream brands to pull off.  The obvious question is: why would MB whore itself out just for a few more measly sales?

Younger buyers.  Brands like Harley Davidson have a greying demographic, Benz wants to avoid the same fate.

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

Younger buyers.  Brands like Harley Davidson have a greying demographic, Benz wants to avoid the same fate.

The last number I saw for MB was 54 years old- solidly over the average of 51-52. CLA isn't appealing to buyers like Daimler thought, so whatever it's ABA may be, it's not shifting the overall much, if any.

Nobody gets young buyers. Young buyers can't afford new cars.

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Nobody gets young buyers. Young buyers can't afford new cars.

Younger, not young...

The A-class in China sells for higher price than any Buick except the Enclave and Volt.  This is why Buick sells a million units a year in China, they have 6 or 7 products below CLA.

Western Europe is actually Mercedes largest market but largest country sales would be China.  About 500k a year there and 380k in USA.

While everyone was concerned with Mercedes move down market, they forgot the other half of this story, also coming in 2018 is this nice 805 hp V8 hybrid sedan.  Which is actually the 2nd most powerful car they are releasing in 2018, and also when what ever the track record on the Nurburgring is goes down.

But "no one is going to buy it".

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

While everyone was concerned with Mercedes move down market, they forgot the other half of this story, also coming in 2018 is this nice 805 hp V8 hybrid sedan.  Which is actually the 2nd most powerful car they are releasing in 2018, and also when what ever the track record on the Nurburgring is goes down.

 

Looks as bland as the rest of the product line. MB continuation of being the Toyota of the World known as Benz.

This will help their luxury badge snobs, but giving more plastic blah products that are just as unreliable as the rest.

Boring, bland lineup, yes.  

I hope they can find some more excitement to compete with all the fun over at Audi or the spindle grills and front drive crossovers at Lexus. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Boring, bland lineup, yes.  

 

I hope they can find some more excitement to compete with all the fun over at Audi or the spindle grills and front drive crossovers at Lexus. 

 

Yes all auto companies have built limited production halo auto's, but the rest of the line up of same look from bottom to top speaks volumes.

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Boring, bland lineup, yes.  

 

I hope they can find some more excitement to compete with all the fun over at Audi or the spindle grills and front drive crossovers at Lexus. 

 

You are handling this all wrong.

Instead of slut shaming Cadillac for what they do and don't do...

Start a Benz club using the Club feature here.

We are all car guys...we would welcome a robust discussion of the AMG cars or the Benz F1 efforts...

I can't speak for the other guys...but yeah I will happily learn about the actual cars if you want to discuss them.

...and Don't feel bad if people don't want to discuss them at some point. I love Mazda, Mini and Subaru...not exactly everyone's favorite brand around here.

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and Don't feel bad if people don't want to discuss them at some point. I love Mazda, Mini and Subaru...not exactly everyone's favorite brand around here.

Always liked the looks of the Mini Clubman and Countryman. Sadly I just do not fit in them. Not big enough. But they are cool cars. Just wish their reliability was better. Having a record of 104 defects per 100 mini's built is not good knowing they come off the assembly line with a defect from the get go. I have always wondered why BMW and MB have not been able to have better reliability. Asians have for the most part not counting China and the US seems to have gotten there, but European Auto companies seem to have slid backwards. Wonder if this is due to the crazy Socialist Union heavy handed attitude there.

Time will tell if down market and over saturation of Mercedes Benz in every drive-way will affect Mercedes perception in the US and Canada.

Let it be known that that strategy did not bode well for Cadillac in the 1980s and Cadillac is still hurting from that decision (not the only misstep though) and BMW is hurting NOW because of those decisions made in the beginning of the 2000s.

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Time will tell if down market and over saturation of Mercedes Benz in every drive-way will affect Mercedes perception in the US and Canada.

Let it be known that that strategy did not bode well for Cadillac in the 1980s and Cadillac is still hurting from that decision (not the only misstep though) and BMW is hurting NOW because of those decisions made in the beginning of the 2000s.

Spoke for Truth, BMW does not for sure hold the badge thing that it once did and I suspect MB will be there too in a few years as they will be no different than going to a Toyota Dealer. You already have MB commercial vans at the front of the lot next to S, E, and C versions. With A&B versions cluttering up the lot at cheap ass prices, people are going to question why is the E&S a luxury auto sitting next to this blah A version?

Like you say, time will tell.

On 6/20/2017 at 6:55 PM, smk4565 said:

The current CLA starts at a higher price than a Maxima or Lacrosse, and loaded goes higher than either of them also.  The CLA starts $300 less than an Acura TLX (their middle sedan) and $1,250 less than an Infiniti Q50.  They are playing low for Mercedes, but above the non-lux brands top offering, and right in line with the mid-range Acura and Infiniti.  

And there are some that will only see a badge, however if it was just a badge that mattered the CLA wouldn't get outsold by the C-class and E-class and I think even the S-class was close to outselling it last year.  And the GLC, GLE, and GLS all outsell the GLA.  

Fuck it.. I'm just gonna ask MOFO.. Would U want to own a CLA??? Seriously.. Would U pull up in a CLA and try to hob nob with the S-Class owners.. (not talking about the ones driving a used 5+ year old model that they could have got for less than $19K with your brand spankin new CLA?? See I'd do it in a C-Class.. definetely in an ATS.. but a CLA??? Fuck no.. I'd feel more confident pulling up to them in a damn Civic. That be fact

The current CLA starts at a higher price than a Maxima or Lacrosse...

They're like $300 apart- or in other words identical.

LaCrosse U.S. May sales were 3183 to the CLA's 1310, however.

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Boring, bland lineup, yes.  

 

I hope they can find some more excitement to compete with all the fun over at Audi or the spindle grills and front drive crossovers at Lexus. 

 

I'll display LUXURY HI Performance with Class..

and since we don't have a Cadillac Sports car.. I call in this $100K monster as an honorary ringer:

After another WIN

Notice all Cadillac's "exciting" cars are 4 door sedans.   And the Escalade can't go off road, it is GLS competitor.  The AMG GT R can beat any Corvette ever made on the Nurburgring and a faster Black Series is coming.  Which is why Cadillac needs a sports car above Corvette.

Pretty sure this isn't a sedan:

Neither is this:

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Pretty sure this isn't a sedan:

I suppose by using old-time designations it could be called a 2dr sedan. 

^ Yes, technically; it absolutely is. The only American 2-dr coupes that come quickly to mind are the Corvette & Viper.
SMK thinks a "4-dr coupe" is an actual thing, and all 2-doors are 'coupes'.

11 hours ago, dfelt said:

Always liked the looks of the Mini Clubman and Countryman. Sadly I just do not fit in them. Not big enough. But they are cool cars. Just wish their reliability was better. Having a record of 104 defects per 100 mini's built is not good knowing they come off the assembly line with a defect from the get go. I have always wondered why BMW and MB have not been able to have better reliability. Asians have for the most part not counting China and the US seems to have gotten there, but European Auto companies seem to have slid backwards. Wonder if this is due to the crazy Socialist Union heavy handed attitude there.

My Mini is much more reliable than my sister's Odyssey, my father's Highlander, my Nephew's Pathfinder, my neighbors F-150,  my Brother in laws Pilot...

Asian vehicles are wildly over rated in terms of reliability...

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Yes, technically; it absolutely is. The only American 2-dr coupes that come quickly to mind are the Corvette & Viper.
SMK thinks a "4-dr coupe" is an actual thing, and all 2-doors are 'coupes'.

He also thinks in terms of a zero sum game...he finds down talking Cadillac to be more uplifting of Benz than actually talking about Mercedes cars.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Notice all Cadillac's "exciting" cars are 4 door sedans.   And the Escalade can't go off road, it is GLS competitor.  The AMG GT R can beat any Corvette ever made on the Nurburgring and a faster Black Series is coming.  Which is why Cadillac needs a sports car above Corvette.

Subaru has one exciting sedan and they sell more cars in the USA than Benz...

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I'll display LUXURY HI Performance with Class..

 

 

and since we don't have a Cadillac Sports car.. I call in this $100K monster as an honorary ringer:

After another WIN

But....it's not German!

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Yes, technically; it absolutely is. The only American 2-dr coupes that come quickly to mind are the Corvette & Viper.
SMK thinks a "4-dr coupe" is an actual thing, and all 2-doors are 'coupes'.

Those are 2 seaters, I'd consider the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger also as coupes....I think the loose definition of coupes today (2dr or 4dr) seems to be frameless door glass with a lower/sleeker roofline than regular 'sedans'...

The Olds Aurora would have been likely been labeled a 4dr coupe today, as it had frameless door glass and was sleeker than the Olds 88/98 sedans of it's time..

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

f@#k it.. I'm just gonna ask MOFO.. Would U want to own a CLA??? Seriously.. Would U pull up in a CLA and try to hob nob with the S-Class owners.. (not talking about the ones driving a used 5+ year old model that they could have got for less than $19K with your brand spankin new CLA?? See I'd do it in a C-Class.. definetely in an ATS.. but a CLA??? f@#k no.. I'd feel more confident pulling up to them in a damn Civic. That be fact

Ill answer this as well!

Nope. The CLA is not a car I EVER aspire to own. Not even the AMG. Id rather the Fusion Sport and the Malibu Premier. Yes over the AMG  version also!

Nope. The CLA does NOT make me aspire to own any other  Mercedes car. In fact, it  makes me question my aspirations to own a higher price tag M-B...quite the opposite effect of what  M-B CEOs want of  me.

I do like the S-Class and if I was a high profile businessman in fear of getting kidnapped, Id get me a fortified, bomb proof S-Class...but then again, Cadillac does not offer a car in this class and THAT is why Id go for the S-Class....

I did say car....I am not a SUV guy so the Escalade is out unfortunately...Id take President Obama's now Trump's Beast though in a heartbeat...and yes its a truck underneath....it looks like a car though!

About the ATS....nope...I dont aspire to own that either!

I  made a thread about it!

The ATS still does not make  me feel like singing this song out loud!

The CT6 kinda does...and the CTS V! Not the ATS!

And like the CLA, the ATS....a Fusion Sport and  Malibu Premier or Impala is what Id buy over the small ''entry level" shytes!