Mercedes-Benz USA Announces Pricing and Packaging Options for All-New EQS SUV

Interesting to see that Mercedes has posted to their Instagram account an EQS/EQB picture and wow, talk about a styling failure when at a quick glance one cannot tell the difference.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfFcH01v-3t/

2 hours ago, David said:

talk about a styling failure when at a quick glance one cannot tell the difference.

That's absolutely no different than glancing at an XT4/XT5 or CT4/CT5/CT6. That's how these luxury automakers have been doing it for well over a decade now. Mercedes isn't the only one guilty of their family of vehicles sharing a very similar design language. 

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's absolutely no different than glancing at an XT4/XT5 or CT4/CT5/CT6. That's how these luxury automakers have been doing it for well over a decade now. Mercedes isn't the only one guilty of their family of vehicles sharing a very similar design language. 

True, yet at least Cadillac to me has a better generic style than the Mercedes EQ series of auto's. Has to be one of the worst ever I think.

I am hoping we see better with the Cadillac EV line.

25 minutes ago, David said:

True, yet at least Cadillac to me has a better generic style than the Mercedes EQ series of auto's. Has to be one of the worst ever I think.

I am hoping we see better with the Cadillac EV line.

Yeah, the EQ line is not very attractive, in my eyes either. 

I think the EQ look works better on the SUVs than it does the sedans.  

I sort of like the regular screen more than the hyper screen because you get wood trim on the dash and actual materials, just not a mega screen.  I do like having buttons and things to touch and not having all the controls in a screen like Tesla does.  Although the piano black in the center console of non-hyper screen cars is lame, piano black sucks in all cars, it looks bad and attracts fingerprints, they should have an option to replace that with wood trim like in the hyper screen car.

Mercedes EV styling is horrendous. SUV or sedan, no difference in the amount of horrendousness. 

Actually, nothing they sell now, ICEV or EV, could be considered as pleasant.

In recent years, they have managed to uglify even their most compelling designs of just a mere decade ago. 

The only Mercedes vehicles I personally like are the Sprinter vans and all their iterations.

Electric versions intrigue me.

With that said, not very inspiring when the only thing I see myself drive or be driven in is a van.  It wouldnt have been a big deal if we were talking about GMC with its black and dark grey coloured 1983 Vandura from a certain TV show.  But its Mercedes we are talking about.  

You know, the company that was inspired to do a Formula One 1.6 liter V6 hybrid supercar for the streets.  But they phoqued up the looks of that as well...

But that is just my lowly opinion. Many folk love the modern look of a Mercedes-Benz.

I still think Mercedes' ICE sedans and SUVs look plenty good. Those EV sedans and SUVs though... are rough to look at. They just went as bland as they possibly could have with damn near literal jellybean styling. 

The ICE cars look better than the EV's.  I think most car companies feel they need to make EV's look futuristic or different so early adopters buy them or they scream EV.  But people like how the S-class looks, they like the GLE, just make the electric versions look like that.  I think Ford did that well with the Lightning, the F150 formula works, no need to mess it up, they know buyers like the F150, you don't have to reinvent it.  

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The ICE cars look better than the EV's.  I think most car companies feel they need to make EV's look futuristic or different so early adopters buy them or they scream EV.  But people like how the S-class looks, they like the GLE, just make the electric versions look like that.  I think Ford did that well with the Lightning, the F150 formula works, no need to mess it up, they know buyers like the F150, you don't have to reinvent it.  

At the same time, give an EV style and it will sell well, just look at the success that the Kia and Hyundai EVs are having.

Out of all the German brands, VW is Blah, Mercedes is Blah, BMW is butt ugly, Audi is the only one with a style that is nice and fits in with the ICE family. That same approach can win and that is why I think the Chevrolet EVs will do well. Be interesting to see what else Ford brings out and Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram as well as Buick/GMC. We know the style of Cadillac.

Will be an interesting rest of this decade to see how the EV wars play out.

10 hours ago, David said:

At the same time, give an EV style and it will sell well, just look at the success that the Kia and Hyundai EVs are having.

I feel like that's because they didn't just make them quirky just to be quirky. For the most part, they look like regular small SUVs. 

11 hours ago, David said:

Audi is the only one with a style that is nice and fits in with the ICE family. That same approach can win and that is why I think the Chevrolet EVs will do well.

I don't think GM is exactly doing the same with Chevy EVs. 

Silverado vs Silverado EV and Equinox vs Equinox EV, you can clearly tell the EV version is quite different. I completely disagree that they're taking the same approach as Audi. 

The Blazer is different, too, but their "grille" area was given a little more of a "conventional" approach...just by blacking it out. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I feel like that's because they didn't just make them quirky just to be quirky. For the most part, they look like regular small SUVs. 

I don't think GM is exactly doing the same with Chevy EVs. 

Silverado vs Silverado EV and Equinox vs Equinox EV, you can clearly tell the EV version is quite different. I completely disagree that they're taking the same approach as Audi. 

The Blazer is different, too, but their "grille" area was given a little more of a "conventional" approach...just by blacking it out. 

Agree that the whole Quirky to be Quirky is over for most buyers and that Kia and Hyundai choose to stay close to their current styling.

I feel for GM, they started the Style of the EV on their ICE and the EV is the next generation of it. Much like how Cadillac started with Arts & Science style and evolved that before the blah current design of the CUV/SUV. 

I do like the new style of the LYRIQ EVs.

Will be interesting to see how things evolve this decade as the auto industry moves into EVs and air streaming for battery efficiency plays out.

6 hours ago, David said:

Agree that the whole Quirky to be Quirky is over for most buyers and that Kia and Hyundai choose to stay close to their current styling.

I feel for GM, they started the Style of the EV on their ICE and the EV is the next generation of it. Much like how Cadillac started with Arts & Science style and evolved that before the blah current design of the CUV/SUV. 

I do like the new style of the LYRIQ EVs.

Will be interesting to see how things evolve this decade as the auto industry moves into EVs and air streaming for battery efficiency plays out.

What I am wondering is if any of the mainstream brands can top Tesla, or if Tesla will eventually bring out some cheaper models and just put several legacy car companies out of business.  

So far in 2022 the Model Y and Model 3 each outsell any product from Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda or Subaru.  The Model Y is outselling the Explorer and Wrangler and is on pace with the Equinox.  And the Model Y is like a $60,000 car.  We've seen how pitiful the sales volumes are on stuff like the iD4, the EV6 and Ionic 5 are pretty low and slowing in sales already, Nissan Ariya is a bust waiting to happen.  So how do those companies survive when they are EV only?  They are going to need cars like the Ionic 5 selling 200,000 units a year, and they are struggling to hit 25k units a year.

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What I am wondering is if any of the mainstream brands can top Tesla, or if Tesla will eventually bring out some cheaper models and just put several legacy car companies out of business.  

So far in 2022 the Model Y and Model 3 each outsell any product from Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda or Subaru.  The Model Y is outselling the Explorer and Wrangler and is on pace with the Equinox.  And the Model Y is like a $60,000 car.  We've seen how pitiful the sales volumes are on stuff like the iD4, the EV6 and Ionic 5 are pretty low and slowing in sales already, Nissan Ariya is a bust waiting to happen.  So how do those companies survive when they are EV only?  They are going to need cars like the Ionic 5 selling 200,000 units a year, and they are struggling to hit 25k units a year.

So again you do not look at the big picture. The Kia and Hyundai only just this year started production and sales. The EV credit being up in the air for those not produced here, sales are solid.

Tesla is not all that and I have posted about this before as Musk is an Idiot in thinking he can speak the trash out of his mouth and not affect the company. Many are turned off from Tesla. On top of this is Tesla always being 3 to 5 years late in actually delivering product and this year the company even said they have no interest in producing a cheaper model at this time.

Then add in that NO ONE has brought on massive battery capacity yet and are just starting production. VW  also only started local production this year to make more ID EVs. 

You have a perfect Chicken and Egg issue here where companies are working to bring online both production of EVs and Battery capacity. Once all gets up to speed and any component shortages which even Tesla has been affected by are ironed out and then we will see true competition.

Wait and see before you speak the same trash that Tesla is it and Musk is god crap.

Your FAILED Mercedes has NOT Delivered on The Best or Nothing in the EV industry. Currently Next to NOTHING!

No the EQS is not a Volume production auto for the masses, EQE only last month started production here in the U.S. and is not even to dealerships yet. EQB is not even here and struggling to get going in Europe and Asia.

What is the Excuse for Mercedes Failure?

2 hours ago, David said:

Many are turned off from Tesla.

And yet many more love them. Their sales really are impressive for a four vehicle lineup. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

And yet many more love them. Their sales really are impressive for a four vehicle lineup. 

Yes, but even on my company Slack channel for social-autos it is amazing to see people post how fed up they are with Tesla. The sales process to repairs under warranty. Clearly Tesla needs a Leader who can focus on the business and communicate with out bringing in their own personal agenda.

Elon Musk’s Antics Turn Owners and Would-Be Buyers Against Tesla (yahoo.com)

As I posted this in Random, will now also post it here. People are holding off and waiting for other OEMs. Tesla might have the backlog on sales, but I would question just how well they will do in 2023 as other OEMs get both battery capacity and auto production online in quantity.

We have also see plenty of posts by people for Mach-e that they liked it over Tesla, missed a few things Tesla did, but over all fit n finish to driving was superior in many ways. Now we have plenty of reports by past Tesla owners who have bought the Kia/Hyundai twins and say it is the new standard.

I am willing to bet this time next year, Tesla will not be in the same position it is today.

Like with Politicians, the public is fed up and with Musk, this is becoming very clear, the public is getting fed up and the love of Tesla is being affected.

1 minute ago, David said:

Yes, but even on my company Slack channel for social-autos it is amazing to see people post how fed up they are with Tesla. The sales process to repairs under warranty. Clearly Tesla needs a Leader who can focus on the business and communicate with out bringing in their own personal agenda.

It isn't like GM's EV rollout has been any smoother, Bolt and Hummer issues. 

3 minutes ago, David said:

As I posted this in Random, will now also post it here. People are holding off and waiting for other OEMs. Tesla might have the backlog on sales, but I would question just how well they will do in 2023 as other OEMs get both battery capacity and auto production online in quantity.

Oh i completely agree with you here. I'm just saying that Tesla has still been crushing it. Without a doubt, I believe their sales will stumble once there are 30-50 other EV options available. 

But, right now, they clearly are the winners with their infrastructure. Every single review I've watched of non-Teslas complain about the charging network and how piss-poor the systems are compared to the simplicity of Tesla's. 

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't like GM's EV rollout has been any smoother, Bolt and Hummer issues. 

Oh i completely agree with you here. I'm just saying that Tesla has still been crushing it. Without a doubt, I believe their sales will stumble once there are 30-50 other EV options available. 

But, right now, they clearly are the winners with their infrastructure. Every single review I've watched of non-Teslas complain about the charging network and how piss-poor the systems are compared to the simplicity of Tesla's. 

True, there are plenty of challenges for all OEMs right now as they enter into the EV world.

Tesla is the leader, but I will be surprised if by the end of 2023 they still are especially with how well Kia/Hyundai has been doing. GM/Ford should have paid attention to the details like Kia/Hyundai did for their EVs. 

I admit that the dealership experience even at Kia/Hyundai has been up and down like everyone else. Some Dealerships are all in on EV and others hate em. So, this will still be a problem I believe over this decade during the transition.

I expect more dealerships to get in line with the OEMs once they have like you said 30 to 50 alternative EVs available to sell and customers look at going EV.

GM family of EVs all include a 220V charger installed in one's garage or you get a charging card for the first 3 years if you are in an Apartment or condo and have no way to have the charger.

Pretty much anywhere you are, the world is in a catch up with charging for EVs.

We Took Australia’s Cheapest EV on a 1,000km Road Trip and We Have Some Thoughts (msn.com)

While this story is interesting, I do have to shake my head at the person. It does prove that not all charging is fast or working and also there is much for the public to learn about to ensure that they can be successful with an EV.

I rented an electric car for a 4-day road trip. I spent more time charging it than I did sleeping. | Fox Business

I will say that I think GM is right in having this FYI website for EVs.

GM EV Live | Virtual Showroom

5 hours ago, David said:

So again you do not look at the big picture. The Kia and Hyundai only just this year started production and sales. The EV credit being up in the air for those not produced here, sales are solid.

Tesla is not all that and I have posted about this before as Musk is an Idiot in thinking he can speak the trash out of his mouth and not affect the company. Many are turned off from Tesla. On top of this is Tesla always being 3 to 5 years late in actually delivering product and this year the company even said they have no interest in producing a cheaper model at this time.

Then add in that NO ONE has brought on massive battery capacity yet and are just starting production. VW  also only started local production this year to make more ID EVs. 

You have a perfect Chicken and Egg issue here where companies are working to bring online both production of EVs and Battery capacity. Once all gets up to speed and any component shortages which even Tesla has been affected by are ironed out and then we will see true competition.

Wait and see before you speak the same trash that Tesla is it and Musk is god crap.

Your FAILED Mercedes has NOT Delivered on The Best or Nothing in the EV industry. Currently Next to NOTHING!

No the EQS is not a Volume production auto for the masses, EQE only last month started production here in the U.S. and is not even to dealerships yet. EQB is not even here and struggling to get going in Europe and Asia.

What is the Excuse for Mercedes Failure?

I agree that we haven’t seen true competition yet but buyers are spending $50k on small Hyundai and VW crossovers and I suspect they never will.  Do either they need to get the iD4 and Ioniq 5 down under $35,000 like the Equinox EV or they are screwed.

Mercedes EQB, EQS,EQS SUV are available at dealers now, EQE by the end of the year and EQE SUV early next year.  That will be 5 EV’s on sale, they are moving as fast or faster than anyone else.  

Tesla has sold 300,000 Model 3/Y so far on 2022 in the USA.  EV6 and Ioniq5 combined for 36,000.  I wouldn’t say Hyundai/Kia are doing well when getting outsold 9 to 1 and Hyundai just lost the tax credit and Tesla is about to get it back.

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I agree that we haven’t seen true competition yet but buyers are spending $50k on small Hyundai and VW crossovers and I suspect they never will.  Do either they need to get the iD4 and Ioniq 5 down under $35,000 like the Equinox EV or they are screwed.

Mercedes EQB, EQS,EQS SUV are available at dealers now, EQE by the end of the year and EQE SUV early next year.  That will be 5 EV’s on sale, they are moving as fast or faster than anyone else.  

Yes low prices will allow more to move to EVs.

Wrong, Mercedes has only the EQS sedan at dealerships. There is NO EQB or EQS SUV at least here on the west coast as the dealerships show none in inventory. They do have pre-orders that are being taken along with the EQE SUV that is supposed to be on dealership lots by the end of this year.

I also just checked the mbusa.com website and for new vehicles, the only available inventory is for the EQS sedan. 

Even if I go by class there is no EQB listed on their website and again as I stated above, pre-orders are being taken, but while Mercedes has stated fall 2022 for importing the EQB into the U.S., there seems to not be any actually here yet.

Maybe the parts shortage is to blame.

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla has sold 300,000 Model 3/Y so far on 2022 in the USA.  EV6 and Ioniq5 combined for 36,000.  I wouldn’t say Hyundai/Kia are doing well when getting outsold 9 to 1 and Hyundai just lost the tax credit and Tesla is about to get it back.

Again, Tesla has had 3 years to ramp up production of both auto and battery packs. Kia/Hyundai started this year in Korea building for a global market. 36,000 year to date for 2022 sales here is great compared to what GM and others have done in their first year.

Yes, they are losing their tax credit as to why they are moving production to the U.S. next year. This is even better than the initial actual deliveries of the Mach-e for their first year.

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes EQB, EQS,EQS SUV are available at dealers now, EQE by the end of the year and EQE SUV early next year.  That will be 5 EV’s on sale, they are moving as fast or faster than anyone else.

It's just unfortunate how they look. 

I'm a Merc fan but I'd skip right over their lot if I wanted an EV. They're just the worst things to look at. 

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla has sold 300,000 Model 3/Y so far on 2022 in the USA.  EV6 and Ioniq5 combined for 36,000.  I wouldn’t say Hyundai/Kia are doing well when getting outsold 9 to 1 and Hyundai just lost the tax credit and Tesla is about to get it back.

Didn't they JUST start production of them a handful of months ago? I assume production wasn't up to 100% capacity, like everything that's brand new. I think a full year's worth of production would be a much better comparison. 

7 minutes ago, David said:

There is NO EQB or EQS SUV at least here on the west coast as the dealerships show none in inventory.

There are a lot of EQB's within 100 miles of me but I see zero EQS SUV's within all of Autotrader's reach. 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=656795677&allListingType=all-cars&makeCodeList=MB&city=Highland&state=IL&zip=62249&location=&requestId=2281868035&searchRadius=50&seriesCodeList=EQB_CLASS%2CEQS_CLASS&marketExtension=include&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&dma=&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Fhighland-il-62249%3FrequestId%3D2281868035%26dma%3D%26searchRadius%3D50%26seriesCodeList%3DEQB_CLASS%2CEQS_CLASS%26location%3D%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26numRecords%3D25&clickType=listing

This is the closest MB dealer to me. 

11 minutes ago, David said:

Even if I go by class there is no EQB listed on their website and again as I stated above, pre-orders are being taken, but while Mercedes has stated fall 2022 for importing the EQB into the U.S., there seems to not be any actually here yet.

Maybe the parts shortage is to blame.

If you go to Autotrader, I see plenty in the Seattle area at dealerships. 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=657524199&allListingType=all-cars&makeCodeList=MB&seriesCodeList=EQB_CLASS&city=Seattle&state=WA&zip=98101&location=&searchRadius=100&marketExtension=include&isNewSearch=false&showAccelerateBanner=false&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&requestId=EQS_CLASS&dma=&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Feqb-class%2Fseattle-wa-98101%3Fdma%3D%26searchRadius%3D100%26location%3D%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse%26showAccelerateBanner%3Dfalse%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26numRecords%3D25%26requestId%3DEQS_CLASS&clickType=listing

@ccap41 I did not think to check Autotrader for the EQB. One would think Mercedes if really vested in the EVs would have their website current with models and inventory.

The EQB is as ugly as the rest of the family. Interesting is why does the local Mercedes dealership website not show this model or inventory but Autotrader does for the EV.

That I find very interesting and telling of Mercedes upper management and lack of commitment to their EVs when the company website and dealership websites do not show it as an available model.

Just now, David said:

@ccap41 I did not think to check Autotrader for the EQB. One would think Mercedes if really vested in the EVs would have their website current with models and inventory.

I'd wager good money that there's just too many moving parts for manufacturers to keep accurate inventory numbers for dealerships on their websites. 

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'd wager good money that there's just too many moving parts for manufacturers to keep accurate inventory numbers for dealerships on their websites. 

I would give you that as correct, but Mercedes USA does not even list the EQB as a model. That is pretty bad, they have had plenty of time to have updated the website that the EQB is a model you can buy or pre-order.

14 minutes ago, David said:

I would give you that as correct, but Mercedes USA does not even list the EQB as a model. That is pretty bad, they have had plenty of time to have updated the website that the EQB is a model you can buy or pre-order.

What? Yes, they do. I was just on their site a few minutes ago. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

What? Yes, they do. I was just on their site a few minutes ago. 

I see your looking at vehicles which I did not look at, I looked at new inventory which only shows the Mercedes-EQ option and under it EQS, so for inventory it is off from the Vehicles.

Thanks,

5 hours ago, David said:

Yes low prices will allow more to move to EVs.

Wrong, Mercedes has only the EQS sedan at dealerships. There is NO EQB or EQS SUV at least here on the west coast as the dealerships show none in inventory. They do have pre-orders that are being taken along with the EQE SUV that is supposed to be on dealership lots by the end of this year.

I also just checked the mbusa.com website and for new vehicles, the only available inventory is for the EQS sedan. 

Even if I go by class there is no EQB listed on their website and again as I stated above, pre-orders are being taken, but while Mercedes has stated fall 2022 for importing the EQB into the U.S., there seems to not be any actually here yet.

Maybe the parts shortage is to blame.

Again, Tesla has had 3 years to ramp up production of both auto and battery packs. Kia/Hyundai started this year in Korea building for a global market. 36,000 year to date for 2022 sales here is great compared to what GM and others have done in their first year.

Yes, they are losing their tax credit as to why they are moving production to the U.S. next year. This is even better than the initial actual deliveries of the Mach-e for their first year.

Fletcher Jones Mercedes in San Diego has the EQB in stock, 39 EV's on the lot or in transit out of there 500 cars in stock.

Bobby Rahal Mercedes has 4 EQS SUV's in stock, so if you want one you can get it today, no waiting 6 months for your Tesla to show up.  I think this is how traditional OEM's beat Tesla, the ability to buy it today (or custom order if you want).  Although nothing Tesla makes has the luxury of a Mercedes, even the EQE blows away the Model S/X interior and you get a real steering wheel.  

If they could get the EQB produced in the USA to get the tax credit, all of a sudden that looks like a pretty temping vehicle, because the GLB is a strong seller and is pretty well received, but you can get one for $10-15k less than n EQB, I didn't look to see how the options and equipment line up to compare the 2 exactly.  But with a tax credit, to get the EQB under $50k, that's a pretty good deal, when you look at something like a Toyota BZ4X is near $50k in the all wheel drive XLE trim.

One of the first EQS SUV reviews out and I have to say I laughed at the excuses Mercedes gave for this EV only having a 400V electrical system. They were also quick to point out that the next generation system will be a 800V system that will come out in 2024 for all EVs globally then.

This tells me Mercedes is not ready unlike Porsche, Audi, BMW and American and Korean auto companies that are currently building to the 800V specification of charging.

2023 Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV First Drive: Commodious, Luxurious, Capable (insideevs.com)

Interesting ?

23 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If they could get the EQB produced in the USA to get the tax credit, all of a sudden that looks like a pretty temping vehicle, because the GLB is a strong seller and is pretty well received, but you can get one for $10-15k less than n EQB, I didn't look to see how the options and equipment line up to compare the 2 exactly.  But with a tax credit, to get the EQB under $50k, that's a pretty good deal, when you look at something like a Toyota BZ4X is near $50k in the all wheel drive XLE trim.

After reading the insideev review of the EQS SUV, I would have to tell people to hold off on buying a Mercedes and if they wanted an EV now, buy Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Audi, VW, Porsche or BMW if they want a full 800V charging system.

Yes GM is also in the system, but at this time only the GMC Hummer is 800V and not readily available.

BOLT is a 350V system equal to Tesla.

This makes me wonder if the Chevrolet Equinox will replace the BOLT or if Chevrolet will go with a BOLT on the Ultium platform down the road. ?

Excellent read on the pros and cons of an 800V system.
Why 800V High Voltage System makes more sense for EVs? - Wheels On Roll
After reading this, it tends to imply that an auto company that is not building 800V EVs is due to NOT having the required components in place for production due to the need for higher quality SIC and GaN MOSFET inverters.
Why 800V High Voltage System makes more sense for EVs? - Wheels On Roll

4 hours ago, David said:

After reading the insideev review of the EQS SUV, I would have to tell people to hold off on buying a Mercedes and if they wanted an EV now, buy Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Audi, VW, Porsche or BMW if they want a full 800V charging system.

Yes GM is also in the system, but at this time only the GMC Hummer is 800V and not readily available.

BOLT is a 350V system equal to Tesla.

This makes me wonder if the Chevrolet Equinox will replace the BOLT or if Chevrolet will go with a BOLT on the Ultium platform down the road. ?

You don't really need 800V, most chargers don't go that fast and if you are charing a home, you are talking like 10 kWh charge rates, so then it really doesn't matter.  Going 400 vs 800 can save on cost and cooling needs, etc.

The big problem with EV's (other than production constraints) is if you look at a generic ICE small crossover they go 0-60 in about 8 seconds, have 300-400 mile range, cost $30-35k.  And car companies sell millions of these per year.  Then when they get to EV's they think it needs 500 hp and a sub 4-second 0-60 time and costs $70,000.  Ford would never in a million years put a 500 hp V8 in an Escape and charge $70,000 for it because they know no one would buy it.  But when it comes time for an EV crossover, throw 500 hp in it and change $65,000.

I think Mercedes and GM are the only 2 that have it figured out, mirror your ICE line with IV's because then you are marketing to your current customer base and your potential cross shops.  

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You don't really need 800V, most chargers don't go that fast and if you are charging a home, you are talking like 10 kWh charge rates, so then it really doesn't matter.  Going 400 vs 800 can save on cost and cooling needs, etc.

The big problem with EV's (other than production constraints) is if you look at a generic ICE small crossover they go 0-60 in about 8 seconds, have 300-400 mile range, cost $30-35k.  And car companies sell millions of these per year.  Then when they get to EV's they think it needs 500 hp and a sub 4-second 0-60 time and costs $70,000.  Ford would never in a million years put a 500 hp V8 in an Escape and charge $70,000 for it because they know no one would buy it.  But when it comes time for an EV crossover, throw 500 hp in it and change $65,000.

I think Mercedes and GM are the only 2 that have it figured out, mirror your ICE line with IV's because then you are marketing to your current customer base and your potential cross shops.  

First of all, 800V is well supported for those fast chargers and EVs that support it as they do charge in a fraction of the time and weight less than a 400V system. Yes, 800V costs more now, but like all things, economy of scale brings it down. GM, Porsche, VW, Audi and BMW have all acknowledge it as well as Kia and Hyundai and why Honda went with the Ultium 800V system for their EVs.

The reason the Equinox will start around $30,000 is due to the mass production bringing costs down.

As far as Charging at home, yes if you're only going CHEAP with 110V charging, you will be lucky to pull down 10kWh charging.

If you have a proper 220V charger installed, they are 50 AMPs and do charge much, much faster.

Yes, there are 220V 38/40 AMP chargers, but the ones from the OEMs as well as ChargePoint that are sold or included are all 220V 50 AMP chargers.

Even Amazon sells them, but you get what you pay for.

This is in its infancy and so nothing is perfect yet, but we have specs to get there and those that do invest get out of it what they expected. Those that go cheap, well, your mileage will vary.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You don't really need 800V, most chargers don't go that fast and if you are charing a home, you are talking like 10 kWh charge rates, so then it really doesn't matter.

Why do I feel like this would not be an issue at all if Benz was actually capable of exploiting 800V chargers. 

Fact is that is where it is heading and the "best or nothing" is already behind that curve.

15 hours ago, David said:

After reading the insideev review of the EQS SUV, I would have to tell people to hold off on buying a Mercedes and if they wanted an EV now, buy Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Audi, VW, Porsche or BMW if they want a full 800V charging system.

I just read a EQB review and have to say the same thing, but not for the 800v system. I'm less concerned about the max capacity charging, as there aren't a million super fast chargers around plus I don't think most owners will/should charge publicly anyway. But a max charge rate of 100kw is low, 150kw should be minimum for anything coming out in 2022 and beyond, imo.

It just sounded quite half baked for 50-70k. I think it was only rated for like 227 miles of range, didn't seem all that quick for an EV (like the Lyriq) but not actually slow, and the floor was raised to interior room was slightly decreased. 

I just couldn't even consider it when the Q4 e-Tron and Lyriq exist.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I just read a EQB review and have to say the same thing, but not for the 800v system. I'm less concerned about the max capacity charging, as there aren't a million super fast chargers around plus I don't think most owners will/should charge publicly anyway. But a max charge rate of 100kw is low, 150kw should be minimum for anything coming out in 2022 and beyond, imo.

It just sounded quite half baked for 50-70k. I think it was only rated for like 227 miles of range, didn't seem all that quick for an EV (like the Lyriq) but not actually slow, and the floor was raised to interior room was slightly decreased. 

I just couldn't even consider it when the Q4 e-Tron and Lyriq exist.

Yes, you nailed it for the EQB. To me, it would seem a half-baked product that is already behind the rest of the market. I just do not get why but have to assume Mercedes does not have the suppliers in place, R&D is not ready yet and as we have learned, their 800V platform will not be out till 2024 when it will make the 2025 models that year.

Not sure who, but clearly someone at Mercedes let the ball slip through their fingers and has missed what the rest of the auto industry is already doing.

Right now, I would say Kia/Hyundai have surpassed Tesla with their EVs and GM is one to be watched as if they hit everything on time. The online production of battery cells and the various Chevrolet EVs will allow them to ramp fast and possibly lead the industry.

Interesting times we live in for sure with the auto industry revolution.

8 minutes ago, David said:

Not sure who, but clearly someone at Mercedes let the ball slip through their fingers and has missed what the rest of the auto industry is already doing.

Yeah, you can't charge 50-70k for a vehicle with a maximum range of 227 miles with a max charge rate of 100kw. 227 miles alone keeps it off a list I'd consider. 

9 minutes ago, David said:

Right now, I would say Kia/Hyundai have surpassed Tesla with their EVs and GM is one to be watched as if they hit everything on time. The online production of battery cells and the various Chevrolet EVs will allow them to ramp fast and possibly lead the industry.

IMO, I think it'll be a couple years before Tesla really gets passed. Hyundai's/Kia's products seem great thus far but they're still really new and still only two vehicles that can compete with Tesla. They're very good but they're not something that stops on anything Tesla's doing. I'd say they appear to be on par with Tesla. 

11 minutes ago, David said:

Interesting times we live in for sure with the auto industry revolution.

Things are changing SOOOO fast. It's pretty crazy to think what the industry will look like in only five years. 

If you asked, "what will the auto industry look like in five years?" twenty years ago, people likely would have just said, cars will be a little quicker, a little more fuel efficient, a little larger, etc. The last year plus the next ten years, things will look drastically different than today. 

@ccap41 I understand that you could think that Kia/Hyundai are on par with Tesla and that Tesla will have a few more years before someone passes them. 

Consider this:

Kia will be launching 2 new EVs every year starting 2023. They will go from one to three EVs by the end of 2023. EV6 and two others. A car and another SUV is what is expected. They also will have another SUV and Truck in 2024. That will be 5 EVs two Tesla 4, maybe 5 if the Cyber truck truly gets going. Yet, interior and fit n finish have been praised by many over Tesla. Kia presents 2030 roadmap to become global sustainable mobility leader (kiamedia.com)

Hyundai has the IONIQ 5 SUV, IONIQ 6 Sedan in both standard and long rang models to compete with Tesla 3. They have stated the IONIQ 7 will be out in 2024 as they focus on the Genesis line with the GV70 EV out end of this year and adding to it with two more models in 2023 and then 2024 will be the final change over as all 2025 Model year Genesis cars and SUVs will be electric. https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-motor-accelerates-electrification-strategy.html

That is allot more EVs than Tesla has been able to design, test, ramp up production and bring to market. This is why Tesla days are numbered. As American, Asian and European Legacy auto makers bring capacity online for cell production and auto production. Their experience will ramp faster than Tesla has been able to. 

Tesla, I suspect will be in the news due to their electric Semi, Roadster, Home roof solar cells and their Powerwall more than their autos by 2025.

Reviews and Comparisons are starting already on the EQB and they are just equal in some areas, failing in others and in the end there are better options out there than the EQB. End result is a fan boy who has to have the badge will buy it, but the general public that is informed will pass on this EV.

2023 Mercedes-Benz EQB vs. 2022 Tesla Model Y Comparison (jdpower.com)

2022 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-EQ EQB: Choosing the Right Trim - Autotrader

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB Class vs Genesis GV60, Jaguar I-Pace, Tesla Model Y - The Car Connection

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB Prices, Reviews, & Pictures | U.S. News (usnews.com)

Kia EV6 vs Mercedes-Benz EQB vs Ioniq 5 Price, Specs And Feature Details Comparison | Wapcar

5 hours ago, David said:

@ccap41 I understand that you could think that Kia/Hyundai are on par with Tesla and that Tesla will have a few more years before someone passes them. 

Consider this:

Kia will be launching 2 new EVs every year starting 2023. They will go from one to three EVs by the end of 2023. EV6 and two others. A car and another SUV is what is expected. They also will have another SUV and Truck in 2024. That will be 5 EVs two Tesla 4, maybe 5 if the Cyber truck truly gets going. Yet, interior and fit n finish have been praised by many over Tesla. Kia presents 2030 roadmap to become global sustainable mobility leader (kiamedia.com)

Hyundai has the IONIQ 5 SUV, IONIQ 6 Sedan in both standard and long rang models to compete with Tesla 3. They have stated the IONIQ 7 will be out in 2024 as they focus on the Genesis line with the GV70 EV out end of this year and adding to it with two more models in 2023 and then 2024 will be the final change over as all 2025 Model year Genesis cars and SUVs will be electric. https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-motor-accelerates-electrification-strategy.html

That is allot more EVs than Tesla has been able to design, test, ramp up production and bring to market. This is why Tesla days are numbered. As American, Asian and European Legacy auto makers bring capacity online for cell production and auto production. Their experience will ramp faster than Tesla has been able to. 

Tesla, I suspect will be in the news due to their electric Semi, Roadster, Home roof solar cells and their Powerwall more than their autos by 2025.

None of what Hyundai and Kia are bringing to market matter if they aren't Hyundai and Kia prices and they don't do Hyundai and Kia volume.  The Ioniq 5 has declining sales right now, they are getting outsold 10 to 1 by the Tesla Model Y.    And what is an Ioniq 7 going to cost?  $50-70k?  Cadillac Lyriq money for a Hyundai of the same size?

The Equinox is about the size of an Ioniq 5 and will be $10k cheaper plus get a tax credit.   I don't see how Hyundai wins that battle.

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

None of what Hyundai and Kia are bringing to market matter if they aren't Hyundai and Kia prices and they don't do Hyundai and Kia volume.

Both of them sell two highly sought after vehicles that are both priced well above $50K (Palisade and Telluride) and that's just for starters. Clearly most folks have accepted that they can play in a higher price bracket so long as it is a worthwhile product. Maybe you need to rethink how Kia and Hyundai can market their wares seeing as how your view of them is still stuck in a 1990s mindset about them.

Googled the EQB, the local Benz dealers are listing them for $60-66k...all black, gray or white..what a dull looking turd.  Couldn't imagine spending that much on such a nothing vehicle. 

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Both of them sell two highly sought after vehicles that are both priced well above $50K (Palisade and Telluride) and that's just for starters. Clearly most folks have accepted that they can play in a higher price bracket so long as it is a worthwhile product. Maybe you need to rethink how Kia and Hyundai can market their wares seeing as how your view of them is still stuck in a 1990s mindset about them.

The 2023 Telluride starts at $36k though, loaded up they can go over $50k.     But the EV6 is $6k more than a Telluride and sized like a Sportage.  YTD Kia has sold 17,000 EV6, 90,000 Sportage and 72,000 Telluride.   Tesla has sold 163,000 Model Y.   And the EV6 had a tax credit until last month, now that it's gone I could see sales of it dropping.  I don't see Kia becoming majority EV by 2030 as they say they want to be, partly due to the slow take rate on the current EV, secondly the EV6 doesn't fit their line up.  Do they make EV5, EV6, EV7 and kill off well known products like Sportage, Sorrento and Telluride?

For as much as a roll as Hyundai Kia were on in the 2011-2021 time frame, I could see that progress stalling or falling back in the 2022-2032 decade.

37 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Googled the EQB, the local Benz dealers are listing them for $60-66k...all black, gray or white..what a dull looking turd.  Couldn't imagine spending that much on such a nothing vehicle. 

A Genesis GV60 starts at $59,290 has 314 hp, 248 mile range while the GLB350 starts at $58,050, has 288 hp and 227 mile range, but is larger and offers a 3rd row and has a Mercedes interior, not a Hyundai Ioniq 5 interior with quilted leather seats.  I don't think they are that off base with $60k for an EQB, although I wish it looked more like the GLB's front end and headlights since those look better, and it should have another 25-30 miles of range at that price.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The 2023 Telluride starts at $36k though, loaded up they can go over $50k.     But the EV6 is $6k more than a Telluride and sized like a Sportage.  YTD Kia has sold 17,000 EV6, 90,000 Sportage and 72,000 Telluride.   Tesla has sold 163,000 Model Y.   And the EV6 had a tax credit until last month, now that it's gone I could see sales of it dropping.  I don't see Kia becoming majority EV by 2030 as they say they want to be, partly due to the slow take rate on the current EV, secondly the EV6 doesn't fit their line up.  Do they make EV5, EV6, EV7 and kill off well known products like Sportage, Sorrento and Telluride?

For as much as a roll as Hyundai Kia were on in the 2011-2021 time frame, I could see that progress stalling or falling back in the 2022-2032 decade.

They now have five different trims of the Telluride in SX term and ALL are above $50K now, which means they are selling plenty at that price hence the aging of more trims in that price range. 

The rest of your sidesteps your assertion that somehow Hyundai and Kia can't sell cars in that price when they clearly can. What Tesla does is 100% irrelevant to your claim about Kia and Hyundai so bringing them up was pretty pointless IMO.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

A Genesis GV60 starts at $59,290 has 314 hp, 248 mile range while the GLB350 starts at $58,050, has 288 hp and 227 mile range, but is larger and offers a 3rd row and has a Mercedes interior

GTFO here! That Benz interior has already been sharply criticized as being cheap.

And I quote (via MT)...

"The cabin is well-made, but the materials are decidedly entry-level, which makes some sense as it shares its innards with the less expensive—and gas-powered—GLB SUV. Aside from faux-leather seating and some soft-touch surfaces, there's a lot of black, ordinary plastic. The flimsy temperature control switches are especially disappointing."

Oh and this...

And it can keep that useless 3rd row. No one in their right mind is using that. You will not find those same criticisms of the GV60. Face it. The EQB is literally outclassed by the faster charging, better looking, longer range, new kid from S. Korea but you keep on trying to sell that sizzle lol.

A third row makes no sense in something as small as the EQB...remember, this thing is smaller than an Equinox. 

39 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

A third row makes no sense in something as small as the EQB...remember, this thing is smaller than an Equinox. 

Exactly! It is sold as a gimmick (not just the EQB, but pretty much anything smaller than mid-size) for "growing families" while thinking nothing of the actual space back there plus the fact that with the 3rd row allegedly being used, you have killed what little cargo space there is in a vehicle that small. Just dumb for any maker to do that but because it's Benz, the resident fan gives them a pass without regard for actual usability. .

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

YTD Kia has sold 17,000 EV6,

Tesla has sold 163,000 Model Y. 

Yes, let's compare this to your BOMB of an EQB.

Mercedes-Benz EQB China auto sales figures (carsalesbase.com)

EQB - Sold 473 in all of China for 2021

EQB - Sold 3,629 YTD in all of China for 2022

Tesla posts record numbers in China by selling 70,602 vehicles locally in Dec 2021 (teslarati.com)

Tesla sold 319,102 units in all of China for 2021

Tesla sold 83,135 in September 2022 alone: Tesla sells record China-made vehicles in September following Shanghai factory upgrade (cnbc.com)

To base it on Facts, MERCEDES is FAILING to build desirable EVs. The numbers of NEGATIVE Sales rates for 2022 is terrible.

Mercedes-Benz Almost Doubled All-Electric Car Sales In Q2 2022 (insideevs.com)

So before you say KIA and HYUNDAI cannot compete in the EV space, I would first be asking why MB is FAILING to deliver desirable auto's to the masses. KIA and HYUNDAI are on track to far outsell Mercedes.