Mercedes-AMG One Delayed

Reminds me of the Tesla having to warm its batteries for AN HOUR to achieve max accel in ludicrious mode. 

The case is certainly easily made that EVs are benchmarking ICs but are still falling well short.

I suspect that the engine involved will fail because F1 is not designed to actually meet emissions standards at all.  Back to the drawing board.

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

Gee, maybe the best or nothing just can’t do it. Vaporware waste. 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

You're an armchair engineer now?

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

I would recommend betting on it being canceled than continuing this NON-PROFITABLE project as the fines are just starting and while Europe may settle for $1 billion Euros, the US is going to hit hard like VW and it will be huge. 

Common sense says a company will cut its losses when it comes to surviving. I bet this gets canceled after all, better to invest it in an EV, Hybrid or current auto's that make money than a Halo auto that cannot even start yet without heating oil.

DEAD ON ARRIVAL!

There is a reason F1 is a dying sport and Formula E has taken over.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

It's way more than just displacement and exhaust. F1 cars idle at like 5000rpm. 

I know you've read or watched videos about the difficulties with using an F1 engine in a street car... 

17 minutes ago, dfelt said:

There is a reason F1 is a dying sport and Formula E has taken over.

Neither supply good  quality racing/competition and neither will last unless they do. Formula E does a much better job as of now but they also started all using the same exact equipment so it should be more competitive. I know they plan to allow each individual company build their own cars and I'm not sure if they are there yet. I actually think once they do that the quality of competition will drop as it will likely turn into the teams who spend the most VS the field, like F1. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're an armchair engineer now?

No but they will figure it out. 

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No but they will figure it out. 

Your ignoring the facts that MB is now facing multiple billions of dollars of fines due to their own FRAUD on Diesel. As such, I doubt this project will survive as they cut costs to stay profitable and alive.

VW currently is at $33.6 Billion in fines and still not done. https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/volkswagen-s-dieselgate-costs-top-336-billion

That kind of cash loss will HURT MB and make them look at projects like the AMG One and Kill it. Right now the Delay is just that, time to assess if they can really afford to spend money on it or just kill it and take their lumps and move forward.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

Very cool read, thanks for posting. Course unlike MB, this is a specialty build auto on a small company so they can get away with an F1 911 from the 80's unlike MB which is going to have to meet current year Spec emissions.

I honestly do not think the AMG One will make it to market as it was originally intended.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Your ignoring the facts that MB is now facing multiple billions of dollars of fines due to their own FRAUD on Diesel. As such, I doubt this project will survive as they cut costs to stay profitable and alive.

VW currently is at $33.6 Billion in fines and still not done. https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/volkswagen-s-dieselgate-costs-top-336-billion

That kind of cash loss will HURT MB and make them look at projects like the AMG One and Kill it. Right now the Delay is just that, time to assess if they can really afford to spend money on it or just kill it and take their lumps and move forward.

Very cool read, thanks for posting. Course unlike MB, this is a specialty build auto on a small company so they can get away with an F1 911 from the 80's unlike MB which is going to have to meet current year Spec emissions.

I honestly do not think the AMG One will make it to market as it was originally intended.

They aren't going to kill it, this is their moon shot vehicle.  This is their chance to build a car that it might take 20 years before anyone rivals it.  They are all in at this point, and the cost of developing the powertrain which is the expensive part is done.  This is a matter of spending money to get it emissions certified.  

They can eat a billion dollar fine too.  These big corporations sit on big cash reserves, they'll probably use the loss as a tax write off and move on.  Daimler lost way more on money on Chrysler than it will on these fines and they are still here, and still #1 luxury car producer.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

No one has done something like this, the current F1 engines are ridiculous, I've heard the power unit in an F1 car is about $5 million.  I imagine they are selling AMG One at a loss, unless the economies of scale have allowed them to turn a profit at $3 million. 

You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Four electric motors work in tandem, one for the turbocharger, one on the engine connected to the crankshaft, and two which drive the front wheels.

 

Wait: its front wheel drive??

10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

Wait: its front wheel drive??

All wheel drive, but the fronts are driven solely by electric. It's sort of a Lexus RX hybrid flipped in reverse.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

Wait: its front wheel drive??

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

No but they will figure it out. 

Figure it out? Really? Billions in fines for lying about diesels, model cute coming, billions lost in the past year, and you think they’ll just “figure it out”? 

Man you take blind fanboyism to the next level. 

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

 

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

In fairness the MB One can’t do corners right now either, at least not legally on the street unlike that Dodge you want to criticize. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

Don’t you get it ccap? If Mercedes can’t do it then no one can! All hail the mighty TriStar hood ornament!

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

 

If it ever sees a track...it will be just another garage queen hyper car that catches fire and means nothing.  Just another pointless exercise soon to be forgotten when the next faster thing appears.   

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

The EV-only range being quoted is a mere 25 miles. That's pretty pathetic.

58 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The EV-only range being quoted is a mere 25 miles. That's pretty pathetic.

25 more miles than the Bugatti Chiron, Lamborghini Aventator and Ferrari LaFerrari.  25 more than a Formula 1 car too.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

25 more miles than the Bugatti Chiron, Lamborghini Aventator and Ferrari LaFerrari.  25 more than a Formula 1 car too.

Which doesn't matter...no one buying a hypercar cares about the EV gimmick. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Figure it out? Really? Billions in fines for lying about diesels, model cute coming, billions lost in the past year, and you think they’ll just “figure it out”? 

 

Tobias Moers wants it built, they will get it done.  The hard part is done.  The car works, Mercedes is well on their way to a 6th consecutive F1 championship with this power unit.  It just doesn't pass an emissions test.

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Which doesn't matter...no one buying a hypercar cares about the EV gimmick. 

It doesn't really need any EV range, but nice that it is there.  The F1 car is a hybrid anyway, so why not throw in 2 extra motors and an extra battery.

If it's a million dollars or whatever and they're going to bother putting electric motors in it, shouldn't it be the first to go 500 miles on battery power, instead of less than every other car already in production?

I just read a news story from May of 2019 that Tobias Moers said they were close to getting this car to pass the WLTP emissions.  And the problem really is in getting it to pass AND making 1,000 hp.  If they wanted to sacrifice power they could probably get this thing to pass the new stricter emissions.

Also keep in mind also that a C7 Corvette fails the new World Light Vehicle Test Procedure emission standards the AMG One is trying to hit.   Where is the outcry of the Corvette not being able to hit the standard when it has a basic engine?

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 

Also keep in mind also that a C7 Corvette fails the new World Light Vehicle Test Procedure emission standards the AMG One is trying to hit.   Where is the outcry of the Corvette not being able to hit the standard when it has a basic engine?

Considering the C7 is out of production, it’s a moot point. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 

It doesn't really need any EV range, but nice that it is there.  The F1 car is a hybrid anyway, so why not throw in 2 extra motors and an extra battery.

It would be more compelling if it were a pure EV  than a passé hybrid....

..and that it makes 1000hp makes it an also-ran, the Chiron already makes 1500hp, without the hybrid gimmick.  

The AMG One is just a lot of hype that means nothing. AMG Zero would be a better name.  

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Tobias Moers wants it built, they will get it done.  The hard part is done.  The car works, Mercedes is well on their way to a 6th consecutive F1 championship with this power unit.  It just doesn't pass an emissions test.

It doesn't really need any EV range, but nice that it is there.  The F1 car is a hybrid anyway, so why not throw in 2 extra motors and an extra battery.

Your fandom is strong but your excuse is weak. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I just read a news story from May of 2019 that Tobias Moers said they were close to getting this car to pass the WLTP emissions.  And the problem really is in getting it to pass AND making 1,000 hp.  If they wanted to sacrifice power they could probably get this thing to pass the new stricter emissions.

Also keep in mind also that a C7 Corvette fails the new World Light Vehicle Test Procedure emission standards the AMG One is trying to hit.   Where is the outcry of the Corvette not being able to hit the standard when it has a basic engine?

Really? You use a standard that the C7 clearly doesn’t have to use as your excuse? Guess all those emission legal Vettes in US are just a sham huh? The new Vette certainly doesn’t have an emission problem so maybe it’s just Benz that can’t quite figure it out or maybe your comparison is bunk to begin with since Benz has to use EU standards to get on the road while the Vette does not since it originates here and sells the bulk of its cars here. Again that fandom clashes with simple logic. 

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't going to kill it, this is their moon shot vehicle.  This is their chance to build a car that it might take 20 years before anyone rivals it.  They are all in at this point, and the cost of developing the powertrain which is the expensive part is done.  This is a matter of spending money to get it emissions certified.  

They can eat a billion dollar fine too.  These big corporations sit on big cash reserves, they'll probably use the loss as a tax write off and move on.  Daimler lost way more on money on Chrysler than it will on these fines and they are still here, and still #1 luxury car producer.

No one has done something like this, the current F1 engines are ridiculous, I've heard the power unit in an F1 car is about $5 million.  I imagine they are selling AMG One at a loss, unless the economies of scale have allowed them to turn a profit at $3 million. 

Your Smoking CRACK if you think this is their MOON SHOT!

Already superior Hyper cars that go faster than the AMG One are built and shown off both EV and Hybrid and as @balthazar has pointed out, you can get an emission legal Hemi that does what this motor says it will do but cannot pass emissions.

This MB Halo car is already old news, old hat and old tech.

Plus if it was so close to passing emissions then why do they have to delay it by 2 years? ?

This is what all auto companies do to projects that are already on the possible chopping block due to economics and money lossing cash flow.

AMG One I am calling it now is DEAD!

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

model cute coming

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

Your Smoking CRACK

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

These big corporations sit on big cash reserves, they'll probably use the loss as a tax write off and move on

You can't take tax losses on fines. 

10 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

It would be more compelling if it were a pure EV  than a passé hybrid....

..and that it makes 1000hp makes it an also-ran, the Chiron already makes 1500hp, without the hybrid gimmick.  

The AMG One is just a lot of hype that means nothing. AMG Zero would be a better name.  

It weighs 2000 lbs less than a Chiron.  AMG One will decimate a Chiron on any track and will beat in in a 1/4 mile drag race which isn’t what the One is even made for.

AMG Two (if that happens) might be a pure EV since Mercedes is entering Formula E next year.

10 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Considering the C7 is out of production, it’s a moot point. 

The Camaro doesn’t meet WLTP either and is still in production and the C8 has the 6.2 V8 still, but since that car hasn’t been tested yet we don’t know if it passes or not.

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Your fandom is strong but your excuse is weak. 

Really? You use a standard that the C7 clearly doesn’t have to use as your excuse? Guess all those emission legal Vettes in US are just a sham huh? The new Vette certainly doesn’t have an emission problem so maybe it’s just Benz that can’t quite figure it out or maybe your comparison is bunk to begin with since Benz has to use EU standards to get on the road while the Vette does not since it originates here and sells the bulk of its cars here. Again that fandom clashes with simple logic. 

They are trying to meet an emissions standard that is tougher than US regulations.  The Camaro and Corvette currently don’t pass the standard that AMG is trying to meet.  

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It weighs 2000 lbs less than a Chiron.  AMG One will decimate a Chiron on any track and will beat in in a 1/4 mile drag race which isn’t what the One is even made for. 

That's all theoretical at this point, though...if it ever gets into production, then maybe such numbers might mean something...but who cares.    Outside of a few journos or M-B test drivers, it will never see a track.  

9 hours ago, dfelt said:

Your Smoking CRACK if you think this is their MOON SHOT!

Already superior Hyper cars that go faster than the AMG One are built and shown off both EV and Hybrid and as @balthazar has pointed out, you can get an emission legal Hemi that does what this motor says it will do but cannot pass emissions.

This MB Halo car is already old news, old hat and old tech.

Plus if it was so close to passing emissions then why do they have to delay it by 2 years? ?

This is what all auto companies do to projects that are already on the possible chopping block due to economics and money lossing cash flow.

AMG One I am calling it now is DEAD!

What superior hyper car?  The Nurburgring record is 6:47 and AMG One is shooting for under 5:30.  That is over a minute and a half quicker than the fastest Ferrari or Corvette ever tested.  

Well, as of now, the AMG One doesn't meet the WLTP standards either... ??‍♂️

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What superior hyper car?  The Nurburgring record is 6:47 and AMG One is shooting for under 5:30.  That is over a minute and a half quicker than the fastest Ferrari or Corvette ever tested.  

You genuinely think they will beat the all-time record by 40 seconds? You realize how absurd of a goal that is, right? I don't think it is bad to set a very high goal but there is only so much time to be taken off on such a bumpy and uneven track. 

22 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You genuinely think they will beat the all-time record by 40 seconds? You realize how absurd of a goal that is, right? I don't think it is bad to set a very high goal but there is only so much time to be taken off on such a bumpy and uneven track. 

1000 hp doesn't help you in turns. 

38 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

1000 hp doesn't help you in turns. 

No, that's what the light weight and high down force is for. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

You genuinely think they will beat the all-time record by 40 seconds? You realize how absurd of a goal that is, right? I don't think it is bad to set a very high goal but there is only so much time to be taken off on such a bumpy and uneven track. 

They think they can beat the all time record by 90 seconds.  Keep in mind an F1 car to a LaFerrari is like comparing a LaFerrari to a Golf GTI.

52 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

1000 hp doesn't help you in turns. 

Weight, active aero, grip and downforce will.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It weighs 2000 lbs less than a Chiron.  AMG One will decimate a Chiron on any track and will beat in in a 1/4 mile drag race which isn’t what the One is even made for.

AMG Two (if that happens) might be a pure EV since Mercedes is entering Formula E next year.

The Camaro doesn’t meet WLTP either and is still in production and the C8 has the 6.2 V8 still, but since that car hasn’t been tested yet we don’t know if it passes or not.

Again with the damn emissions comparisons. Let me say for you one more time. The Vette and Camaro don’t have $h! to worry about because they only need to meet US emissions guidelines. They have so little presence in Europe, that is does not matter that they don’t meet WLTP standards. The simple fact is that the One has more issues than just simple emissions of Benz is delaying it for two years (which by that time will make it old news). All of your fanboy defensive nonsense will not change those facts. 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They are trying to meet an emissions standard that is tougher than US regulations.  The Camaro and Corvette currently don’t pass the standard that AMG is trying to meet.  

See above post and stop deflecting. 

“Hey everyone! My vaporware car will run circles around any other car on the planet! Mercedes told me so it must be true! Fanboys rejoice!”

Thats pretty much your defense and deflection in a nutshell. 

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

 

 

Yeah, I realized the autocorrect error a little too late to correct it to “cuts” instead of “cute” but it does make it funnier. 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What superior hyper car?  The Nurburgring record is 6:47 and AMG One is shooting for under 5:30.  That is over a minute and a half quicker than the fastest Ferrari or Corvette ever tested.  

What superior hypercar? How about all the ones currently running said roads and not part of Daimler’s imagination right now, which is all the AMG One is right now. 

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They think they can beat the all time record by 90 seconds.  Keep in mind an F1 car to a LaFerrari is like comparing a LaFerrari to a Golf GTI.

I completely understand that part but I think the track surface will hold it back more than the performance capabilities themselves. 

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I completely understand that part but I think the track surface will hold it back more than the performance capabilities themselves. 

Sorry but he is hitting that pipe pretty hard to make such assumptions, even by his fanboy standards. 

Meanwhile Aston Martin is getting their seven chuckles over this while they ready their Hypercar for release. The One will be old news in 2021.

It also appears that the One’s issues extend beyond simple emission restrictions hence the two year delay.

https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-is-laughing-at-mercedes-amg-s-latest-struggle

51 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Meanwhile Aston Martin is getting their seven chuckles over this while they ready their Hypercar for release. The One will be old news in 2021.

 

It also appears that the One’s issues extend beyond simple emission restrictions hence the two year delay.

 

https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-is-laughing-at-mercedes-amg-s-latest-struggle

Starter Problem

Oil Heating problem

High RPM idle problem

Connection of having the F1 engine power 4 electric motors problem

Pathetic battery pack problem

AMG One is a Problem that I easily can see being killed off as MB has to pay billions for their Diesel FRAUD!

AMG One is DEAD AUTO before it even leaves the factory.

Moon Shot FAILED!

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Meanwhile Aston Martin is getting their seven chuckles over this while they ready their Hypercar for release. The One will be old news in 2021.

 

It also appears that the One’s issues extend beyond simple emission restrictions hence the two year delay.

 

https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-is-laughing-at-mercedes-amg-s-latest-struggle

 

 

They company that buys AMG engines and transmissions and Mercedes infotainment is laughing at Mercedes?

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They company that buys AMG engines and transmissions and Mercedes infotainment is laughing at Mercedes?

See dfelts post above outlining all the issues Mercedes is dealing with. And yes they are laughing because theirs is almost ready while Benz can’t figure out their own $h! so much so that they delayed it for two years while claiming “emissions problems” when that is clearly NOT the only issue. 

And the Valkyrie is using a Cosworth V12, not from AMG. 

I don't think it is dead at all and that's kind of odd to say it's dead while they just stated they're still working on it... Also to say it is old tech..? Huh? 

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it is dead at all and that's kind of odd to say it's dead while they just stated they're still working on it... Also to say it is old tech..? Huh? 

Yes, I take the risk of an ASSumption that at a 2yr delay, Auto technology will leap frog this auto and be old tech at the rate MB is going to attempt to address the issues.

I might end up being an ASS  if they really deliver it in 2 years, but how would it be relevant when others are surpassing them already?

I something that was shown off 2 years ago and now delayed another 2 years being 4 years old not old tech?

I do not see F1 or Formula E stopping yearly development to wait for AMG to get their Halo Car built and working.

AMG One will be a 4yr old concept if they get it working to deliver to their customers. 

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yes, I take the risk of an ASSumption that at a 2yr delay, Auto technology will leap frog this auto and be old tech at the rate MB is going to attempt to address the issues.

I might end up being an ASS  if they really deliver it in 2 years, but how would it be relevant when others are surpassing them already?

I something that was shown off 2 years ago and now delayed another 2 years being 4 years old not old tech?

I do not see F1 or Formula E stopping yearly development to wait for AMG to get their Halo Car built and working.

AMG One will be a 4yr old concept if they get it working to deliver to their customers. 

What else is in the auto pipeline that'll be pumping out 1200hp and weighing 2,600-2,800lbs? There is one thing for sure, I don't think it would be irrelevant even in 2 years. People are still talking about the McLaren F1 20 years later... even though it's been surpassed with technology long ago. 

I would agree if it was only ICE but with it being a full plug-in hybrid with all of that technology, I can't see it being irrelevant in 2 years or even 5 years. Unless there are skunkworks programs from other major automakers, this will still be 1 of 1 in it's "segment". 

Personally, I am not a fan of the whole stripped out full blown race car made street legal. It just doesn't suit my driving style or "needs". I think a true GT car would be best for me if money wasn't an issue but this thing will rip, if they get everything sorted out. 

^ Agreed with the above principal; tech just doesn't move nearly fast enough to make anything 4 years old 'irrelevant'. Most production redesigns are on a 7 year window as it is. I don't feel that a 2-yr delay does anything other than cause a dozen serious buyers a longer wait.
That said; the car as a marketing tool IS irrelevant. Not going to sell a single 'nuther A- or C-class if this thing eventually sees the light of day.

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

See dfelts post above outlining all the issues Mercedes is dealing with. And yes they are laughing because theirs is almost ready while Benz can’t figure out their own $h! so much so that they delayed it for two years while claiming “emissions problems” when that is clearly NOT the only issue. 

 

And the Valkyrie is using a Cosworth V12, not from AMG. 

The Valkerie is Cosworth but all those Vantages they are selling are AMG powered, and rumor is their SUV is AMG powered too.