Spying: Lincoln Continental Transitions From Concept to Production

Sure, it is an decent enough ride functioning wise, and others will be happy to see it come on the market.  The design just does not appeal to me.  It looks too busy from the wheels, to the lights, and I do not like the large grill.

Merge two of those 3.0L V6 blocks to create a V12 for this beast!

Naw a smarter bet for Lincoln would be a VOLT like Power train that would rock the Germans World with V12 power equivalence.

Ugh... the prototype in camo belies its 2005 Ford Five Hundred roots.  Very close to sticking a fork in Lincoln if that holds true.  This car needed no less than a RWD chassis to return the brand to relevance.

Ugh... the prototype in camo belies its 2005 Ford Five Hundred roots.  Very close to sticking a fork in Lincoln if that holds true.  This car needed no less than a RWD chassis to return the brand to relevance.

I think they are getting rid of the old D3 platform and building this an the '16 Taurus on a variation of the Fusion platform...

MkZ so much nicer.....this is a dud

Where is this?

http://preview.netcarshow.com/Lincoln-MKR_Concept-2007-hd.jpg

^ MKR concept was the pinnacle of a Lincoln design/package/image, IMO, in the brand's entire history. That car, built as it was, would have been a giant killer.

Merge two of those 3.0L V6 blocks to create a V12 for this beast!

A transversely mounted V12 would certainly be an interesting feat!

Yup! That!

The car in an AWD configuration with the V12.

As stunning as that concept was, it had a 3.8L pushrod motor in it just to package an engine and have it roll.

But this Conti is so much more stunning.

And that stunning face.....soooo much nicer than MKR toothed concept.

The tinting glass roof by button, is just off the charts wickedly 'gotta have.'

One wonders why they didn't just use the 2.7EB... it's not like anyone would have known the 0.3 liters were missing

One wonders why they didn't just use the 2.7EB... it's not like anyone would have known the 0.3 liters were missing

Maybe a 3.0 is replacing the 2.7.  Wondering why the didn't use the existing 3.5 that Lincoln uses today..

3.0L is the new Lincoln exclusive variant of the nano.  400 plus hp and packages small, unlike the D35, which will be RWD application only in next upgrade.

As stunning as that concept was, it had a 3.8L pushrod motor in it just to package an engine and have it roll.

 

But this Conti is so much more stunning.

 

 

 

And that stunning face.....soooo much nicer than MKR toothed concept.

The tinting glass roof by button, is just off the charts wickedly 'gotta have.'

No, that other concept smokes this one without even trying.  They definitely picked the wrong concept to bring to market.

^

I don't see a big market for a large luxury coupe.  

Especially one that is buck toothed.

Are they replacing the MKS with the Continental?  or is the Continental supposed to be a $60,000 car above the MKS?  Which would make it more of a K900 or Equus competitor, or what is the expected price point?

The approved Continental is trying to hard to look like a Jaguar but with edge. I actually do like the MKR a bit more but not much more. both are cool concepts but not what I would want in production.

I like both.  I hope the Continental keeps its name and most of its look. 

Continental just bores me the more I look at it.  At first glance when it was revealed I thought it was okay, but nothing that really grabbed my attention, either.  As I keep seeing more and more pictures of it I find it hard to see anything that makes it other than another plain, uninspiring sedan design.  That MKR just looks like it actually has some style and panache, and yes a better looking front-end, no buck-tooth problems there.  I'm not buying a luxury anything anytime soon on what I make, but if I were in the market for a luxury vehicle the MKR would at least catch my attention, where the Continental just wouldn't even register.

I like both.  I hope the Continental keeps its name and most of its look. 

Name is set in stone.  Also set in stone, is that the 400hp AWD will be standard.  That is perfect.  I could care less how quickly this thing cuts an apex, as that is not what luxury cars do,  although with that hardware riding on large wheels....I doubt it will be leaning into it either.

The looks, from what little I have seen internally, appear very close to concept.  

I only wish they would tone down the chrome a bit, as that retro look might get a bit old in time.

For those who like the looks it will be fine-it'll do good business in China, which is its primary focus. But the underpinnings scream "Buick fighter." I'll wait for the new RWD platform before I get excited.

The ATS and CTS don't appear to be getting anyone very excited, based on sales, so perhaps RWD is not the solution.

Something tells me an $80K CT6 near identical clone of the CTS will not do much either.

So, perhaps Lincoln will have more luck with their approach.

I'm not sure how dragging Cadillac into the discussion accomplished anything. Lincoln competes with Buick, not Cadillac. That became immediately obvious when MT said the Escalade was better than a Range Rover, and Consumer Reports gushed over the Navigator's practicality.

That said, I'm glad you brought up the sales thing. I'll grant that the ATS and CTS could be doing better in that regard. However, in the case of both Cadillac and Lincoln the bigger picture must be considered. Cadillac sales are actually about par when you consider sales by platform (the old CTS stood alone, while both the all-new ATS and CTS both use Alpha) while the current Lincoln sedan sales darling uses Fusion bits (and based on Fusion sales drops versus MKZ gains, cannibalizes Fusion sales to boot-the Lincoln is up 3,000 units while the Ford is down 10,000. Oops). The Alpha platform is a fantastic bit of engineering that regularly pits the boots to Bimmers and Benzes. The Fusion platform is... a Fusion platform. And finally, that sweet Alpha platform is about to sell in the six figures thanks to the additional sales the Camaro will bring. In other words, trickle-down engineering is about to give GM some fantastic cars. Ford is about to give us... well, nicer Fusions

Of course you are glad I brought it up, as it gave you carte blanche to go much further off topic and truly rant.

You're welcome

No, I iust pointed out that Lincoln's approach to near-luxury cars is possibly worse than Cadillac's woes in the luxury segment. Don't get sniffy with me because I produced sales numbers to shoot down your speculation. Sheesh

Lincoln seems to be pursuing a similar approach to Buick,with softer, quieter, FWD/AWD sedans and CUVs.not that far out of line from where Lincoln has been for a long time..Cadillac has generally embraced the performance driven luxury approach of M-B and BMW..nothing wrong with that, near-lux and lux market is big enough to support many approaches.  Lexus, for example, used to be in a the soft, quiet precision niche but they are trying to move towards a more performance driven approach w/ their violent styling and F series models.

Did you really go into sales details.

Sorry, I might have 

Lincoln seems to be pursuing a similar approach to Buick,with softer, quieter, FWD/AWD sedans and CUVs.not that far out of line from where Lincoln has been for a long time..Cadillac has generally embraced the performance driven luxury approach of M-B and BMW..nothing wrong with that, near-lux and lux market is big enough to support many approaches.  Lexus, for example, used to be in a the soft, quiet precision niche but they are trying to move towards a more performance driven approach w/ their violent styling and F series models.

Yeah, that sounds best on a sales brochure, but apparently not so much in a sales report. 

I'm sorry that my facts trump your PR. No, not really.

Besides, if Dearborn truly believed in its approach to the new Continental, then why are they still going forward with an advanced platform designed primarily for (and initially exclusive to) Lincoln? Sounds pretty Caddy-ish to me.

Lincoln's rebirth plans were given the green light for phase II this year, with plans to expand further upmarket that will utilize all new platforms.  But that is about 4-5 years from completion.  And Lincoln has much higher sights planned than Cadillac, who is barely a couple rungs above them, at the bottom of the luxury ladder.

Oh, and Ford premium trim levels compete with Buick.

The ATS and CTS don't appear to be getting anyone very excited, based on sales, so perhaps RWD is not the solution.

Something tells me an $80K CT6 near identical clone of the CTS will not do much either.

 

So, perhaps Lincoln will have more luck with their approach.

RWD is the answer, it is just that Cadillac doesn't have brand cache and they just now are moving to 8-speed transmission and they don't have hybrids, diesels, DOHC V8, V12, convertible, etc.  Their product line is still thin and powertrains to reliant on what Chevy uses.

Lincoln will not be able to sell this car in the $60-80k range if that is the target price, too high for a fwd based car.  As far as China goes, The Continental or CT6 won't sell there because they don't have 4 rings on the grille.

Lincoln's rebirth plans were given the green light for phase II this year, with plans to expand further upmarket that will utilize all new platforms.  But that is about 4-5 years from completion.  And Lincoln has much higher sights planned than Cadillac, who is barely a couple rungs above them, at the bottom of the luxury ladder.

 

Oh, and Ford premium trim levels compete with Buick.

Lincoln's rebirth plan will be under funded.  Cadillac and Lincoln both face the problem of not enough R&D dollars.   Lincoln will never get into the tier 1 luxury brands, I am not even sure they'll still be selling Lincolns in 10 years.

Yeah, I'm completely disinterested with Lincoln, other than the fact that the MKZ looks breathtaking to me. The rest, meh.

As for the Continental. Great concept, but I predict a terrible production product. Because it's flawed in one key area: FWD based. Maybe they can massage a Fusion into something brilliant, but until the day comes and people drive it, it's a pretty sensible stance to take; that Ford or should I say Lincoln Motor Company will over-promise and under-deliver.

As a stop-gap, and I may catch flack for this, outside of the Focus RS, use HAT AWD tech on Lincolns and onl lincolns.  I know that would mean no performance FUsion, but it could reall help set the MKZ/Continental apart.

 

The ATS and CTS don't appear to be getting anyone very excited, based on sales, so perhaps RWD is not the solution.

Something tells me an $80K CT6 near identical clone of the CTS will not do much either.

 

So, perhaps Lincoln will have more luck with their approach.

RWD is the answer, it is just that Cadillac doesn't have brand cache and they just now are moving to 8-speed transmission and they don't have hybrids, diesels, DOHC V8, V12, convertible, etc.  Their product line is still thin and powertrains to reliant on what Chevy uses.

 

Lincoln will not be able to sell this car in the $60-80k range if that is the target price, too high for a fwd based car.  As far as China goes, The Continental or CT6 won't sell there because they don't have 4 rings on the grille.

 

If RWD is "The Answer™®©", why hasn't Infiniti, Genesis sedan, Jaguar, and the K900, taken off?  (and, in fact, the most growth Infiniti had experienced has come from FWD models)   Could it be that maybe there is more to it than a singular trait on the car?

It's a pretty significant trait tho.

Conversely, when is the last time ANY transversely-engined car has been considered "luxury?" The hardcore Swedish guys will bring up old Saabs and Volvos, but even those were a stretch.

Yeah, I'm completely disinterested with Lincoln, other than the fact that the MKZ looks breathtaking to me. The rest, meh.

 

As for the Continental. Great concept, but I predict a terrible production product. Because it's flawed in one key area: FWD based. Maybe they can massage a Fusion into something brilliant, but until the day comes and people drive it, it's a pretty sensible stance to take; that Ford or should I say Lincoln Motor Company will over-promise and under-deliver.

The lumps under the camouflage mules that are running around suggest that the exterior will be almost spot on with the concept in shape.  

Isn't AWD going to be standard o n the Continental?  IMHO, the future of luxury is AWD, yes more RWD based AWD, but FWD based can be made to be decent.  IMHO, until RWD is ready, they should just go standard AWD across the board. 

It's a pretty significant trait tho.

Conversely, when is the last time ANY transversely-engined car has been considered "luxury?" The hardcore Swedish guys will bring up old Saabs and Volvos, but even those were a stretch.

Clearly not.   There are currently plenty that are still failing in spite of it. 

But my point is that nobody is succeeding with it, assuming that the Lexus ES and similar ilk aren't what you consider true luxury cars. If you do consider them luxury cars then that's a whole 'nother thing.

Having said that I'm totally on board with the idea that you just can't go with an RWD chassis and call it. If it's styled like a turnip it probably won't sell. If it has clumsy handling, not so good. If it's overpriced you may have issues... and so on.

But as far as I'm concerned if it ain't RWD-based it's a non-starter. And if we are to go by the plethora of products Lincoln has sent off into the abyss since the LS sedans and Mark VIII went away I'd say it's a pretty sound argument.

It's OK to have a RWD preference, but to claim you can't have a luxury vehicle without RWD is just fanboy speak.  

I hear the new MKX from Lincoln is just an exceptional new CUV to drive.  There is absolutely no way that it would suddenly become more luxurious if Lincoln made it RWD.  So how on earth can someone conclude the same thing about the new Continental, when clearly it appears to have drop dead gorgeous styling (IMO), power and capability and luxury in spades?  They can't.  But they do try.  Over and over and over and over and...........

Camrys are front wheel drive.  Formula 1 cars are rear wheel drive.

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

Camrys are front wheel drive.  Formula 1 cars are rear wheel drive

Nobody drives F1 on the road.

Especially if they want luxury.

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

Meh, on your opinion about a Conti.

And I don't know where you get your news but, Ford is not developing a chassis that costs $5M.

 

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

Meh, on your opinion about a Conti.

And I don't know where you get your news but, Ford is not developing a chassis that costs $5M.

 

And there is the conversation done.  Once you've gotten to where your only argument is "meh" to what the other person has to say you've admitted that you have no valid answer, while trying NOT to admit that you were wrong.

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

FWD based and transverse mounting have nothing to do with the luxury of the car... and when 80% of BWW 1-Series owners think their car is FWD that should really tell you something. 

Your blame is misdirected.  You want to pin the failure of certain Lincoln models on the fact that they were front wheel drive, but in fact it was neglect on the rest of the car by Lincoln that caused the demise.   When the Continental switched from RWD to FWD in 1988 it went from Zero to Hero.  I owned an '85 Continental and really liked the car, but they were an absolute sales dud. When the FWD '88 Continental came on the scene, it was a huge sales surge and success for Lincoln.   What happened?   Lincoln neglected the car.  They left it without refreshes for too long and didn't offer an option of a V8 for the entirety of the first FWD generation.  A 140hp V6 in 1988 was questionable and a 160hp V6 in 1994 was suicide.  Even the Ford Tempo and Chevrolet Cavalier came with a 140hp V6 in 1994.   Also, Lincoln let the interiors of these cars age ungracefully.  That, along with wide spread issues with the air suspension turned off a lot of buyers when the 1995 model came around.   

The second FWD generation ran for 7 years... again neglected by Lincoln with only minor updates and a decidedly unluxury-like interior that could have served duty in the Windstar better than the Continental, the Continental name was put to rest in favor of the Lincoln LS.   The switch to RWD couldn't save that car from Lincoln's neglect and it was canceled after 6 years with basically zero updates.

The MKS is an embarrassment to the brand, not because of which wheels drive the car, but because of the so-called luxury appointments.

The same story repeats itself, nearly verbatim, over at Cadillac.   Though Cadillac had the sense to use 8-cylinder engines, the HT4100 was a reliability disaster on top of being low on power.  The downsized models in 1986 were not well received, but when the '92 Eldorado and '92 Seville came out, Cadillac was really back in the game.  Again sales soared. Again Cadillac ignored.  They let the Eldorado go for 10 years with only minor updates.  Imagine driving into a Cadillac dealership in 2002 in your 1992 Eldorado and driving out in basically the same car but with zero miles!!   The Seville fared better with a redesign and platform change in 1998, but by that time the drum beat for Cadillac to become the American BMW was too strong to overcome. 

The reasons these cars eventually failed has nothing to do with which wheels drove the car.  The Catera, the LS, the Mark VIII, the S-Type, the STS, the first SRX, the Q45, the M35/45, the J35, the GS, the K900, and I'm sure more that I'm not remembering, all have failed hard.... and they're all RWD.

What matters most is the experience.  If the Continental can deliver the luxury Lincoln is promising with AWD and sufficient performance. Buyers will come and not care which way the engine is facing.

 

 

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

Meh, on your opinion about a Conti.

And I don't know where you get your news but, Ford is not developing a chassis that costs $5M.

 

And there is the conversation done.  Once you've gotten to where your only argument is "meh" to what the other person has to say you've admitted that you have no valid answer, while trying NOT to admit that you were wrong.

 

The discussion was about IF FWD can be considered true luxury. I disagreed with his assertion that it can't, hence my 'meh.'

There is no right or wrong here to 'admit to.'

Nice try though.

 

Wings: as I said: if you consider a transverse-mount engine car to be true luxury, you're speaking a whole 'nother language. One, I may add, that has very few speakers.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to discuss the Continental's chances of getting Buick to up their game, if indeed such a thing is required.

And lest we forget, decades of futile FWD styling exercises by Lincoln (and three different styling languages in thirty-six months!) render any PR fluff utterly null.

Lincoln needs that five billion dollar Cadillac fighting platform ASAP. This thing ain't gonna cut it.

Again.

Meh, on your opinion about a Conti.

And I don't know where you get your news but, Ford is not developing a chassis that costs $5M.

 

oops, typo, I meant that there is no $5B chassis being developed.

There is however an amount floated about similar to that amount that is being invested in Phase II of Lincoln's rebirth.  But that money is being spent across the board on many vehicles, upgrades, etc.