Rumorpile: Lincoln Continental To Be One and Done?

WOW, based on looking at average sales price for the Continental you get $52,888 so with only 18,846 sold, that equals a total of $996,727,248. So here in the 3rd year they have not even fully recovered R&D costs let alone marketing and sales cost. Ouch, I would have to say then that auto that sell less than 25,000 a year are money losers.

This would imply many of the expensive high priced luxury cars that only sell a few hundred a month are losing money, not making it for the auto company.

but a neo-nazi homophobe told C&G this car would take wings and fight europe and make the bad ol' electrics go away

Well I think the Continental is a beautiful car.  They certainly catch the eye on the road.

Was behind one on the road the other night..they have a great taillight pattern...

Not surprised by this, but what terrible product planning by Ford, and it shows how the car was underdeveloped in the first place.  The Continental has zero when it comes to performance, and it doesn't have more luxury, more features or better build quality than anything else that price point, so it has nothing to win on.  Plus full size sedan isn't really a growing segment, really a Lincoln the size of the MKZ should be the $50,000 Lincoln and a car smaller than that should be the $35,000 Lincoln.

This goes to the overall poor execution of the Lincoln brand.  All of their product is a dressed up Ford and people aren't going to pay luxury money for Escape or Fusion under pinnings.  Even the new Navigator which they tout as a success gets outsold by an aging Escalade and the really aging GLS.  When the BMW X7 hits, the Audi Q8, the new GLS, Navigator sales will drop under 1,000 per month in 2019 and then they'll wait until 2024 to update it, if Lincoln is still around then.

It was bad when people inside Ford were questioning the release of this. It simply does not have a place-nor a price to justify it....

MKS was well below the target but at least it wasn't a cartoon show like this is.

the exterior i can live with but the interior just doesn't qualify as luxury.  it's a cobbled together discombobulated interior that maybe would be considered luxury compared to a 90's hyundai.

if ford replaces this it can only be good

The pricing on the Continental is terrible, I just went to their website, the Black Label 2.7L is $70k and there are some options you can add to that.  This car is easily $15,000 overpriced for what it is.   Probably what Lincoln should do to salvage some of this, is put this car's body, powertrain, interior, and features, etc and shorten overall length by 10 inches and make it the new MKZ,  and cut the base price to $37,950 and make the Black Label $49,950 with the 400 hp V6.  

I think Ford is having some issues selling the MKZ as well as the Continental.  Too bad neither car distinguishes themselves from the competition in any significant way.  Why would anyone switch to a Lincoln from a German car or a Cadillac?

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The pricing on the Continental is terrible, I just went to their website, the Black Label 2.7L is $70k and there are some options you can add to that.  This car is easily $15,000 overpriced for what it is.   Probably what Lincoln should do to salvage some of this, is put this car's body, powertrain, interior, and features, etc and shorten overall length by 10 inches and make it the new MKZ,  and cut the base price to $37,950 and make the Black Label $49,950 with the 400 hp V6.  

I agree the pricing is very high for what you get, but cutting the size down will not help as it already has a very tight interior for larger people.

At this point, drop the MKZ, then drop the price of this car by $15,000 and sales should fly.

Price it where everyone else in the mid level market has their mid priced auto's so that there is added value of a full size 4 door car at a mid size price giving it added value and a perceived mid-level luxury.

Yeah, this car was just DOA. Too much money for what it is. And playing in a drying up segment to boot.

You know, in hindsight this car probably wasn't worth it, but Lincoln tried the old nameplate routine, and it seems that it has failed. No Conti means definitely no Taurus ever again too. Tho I do remember mentioning how the Continental was just a bonus for USA and Canada, as it was really meant for China.

That explain why you conk your head and get a concussion every time you get in one DFelt!

50 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

You know, in hindsight this car probably wasn't worth it, but Lincoln tried the old nameplate routine, and it seems that it has failed. No Conti means definitely no Taurus ever again too. Tho I do remember mentioning how the Continental was just a bonus for USA and Canada, as it was really meant for China.

 

That explain why you conk your head and get a concussion every time you get in one DFelt!

Very True,

USA Average Man is 5'9" tall

China Average Man is 5'5" tall

4 inches makes a big difference in how an auto fits people. Wonder how many Conti are sold in China compared to the US? 

Found this video today.

Seems the Aviator is back to go with the Nautilus aka old name MKX.

I see some think this is all about trying to take the brand and grow it in China. Interesting

The Continental name wasn't the problem, the lackluster car built on a Fusion chassis was.  

I found the MKS to be an attractive car, once trailing one up along the 15 (Autoroute des Laurentides) to Mont-Tremblant, Quebec.  All the proportions and angles seemed just right and such an improvement for a marque that generally has never appealed to me compared to GM's Cadillac division.

As for this vehicle, I will have to say that it is a beautifully crafted car.  Some aspects of it are very nice, such as the imposing and classic grille as well as the nicely finished interior, especially in blue leather.

18 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

I found the MKS to be an attractive car, once trailing one up along the 15 (Autoroute des Laurentides) to Mont-Tremblant, Quebec.  All the proportions and angles seemed just right and such an improvement for a marque that generally has never appealed to me compared to GM's Cadillac division.

As for this vehicle, I will have to say that it is a beautifully crafted car.  Some aspects of it are very nice, such as the imposing and classic grille as well as the nicely finished interior, especially in blue leather.

I havent seen one Continental yet in La Belle Province....and I live here! 

Probably the only one sold in Quebec you saw...Id buy lottery tickets if I were you! 

And yes...I am happy that you get to visit our Province from time to time.

Mont Tremblant is such a great place. You dont even have to ski. Just take in the sights and sounds of the place.  (bars and restaurants and quite expensive boutiques...)

56 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I havent seen one Continental yet in La Belle Province....and I live here! 

Probably the only one sold in Quebec you saw...Id buy lottery tickets if I were you! 

 

And yes...I am happy that you get to visit our Province from time to time.

Mont Tremblant is such a great place. You dont even have to ski. Just take in the sights and sounds of the place.  (bars and restaurants and quite expensive boutiques...)

Yes, thank you.  I believe every time I've been there is in October.  To me, Mont-Tremblant is all about the seasonal change, mostly autumn.  I gave up skiing a while back.  To those in the states, there are actually Asian groups who charter wide body jets to fly to Quebec to see the leaves at peak color.  The funny thing is that Japan also has an impressive changeover into autumn, yet these folks still choose to fly to Quebec.  Whether in Canada or in Europe, it's always interesting to watch the demure yet very curious groups of Asian tourists.

I actually think the MKz is a nice looking car. Very distinctive. However it never has had a very good interior. They could keep the MKz, put a completely new interior in it and at least get some sales volume out of it for 3-4 more years as a brand entry device. 

On 3/15/2018 at 7:17 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Was behind one on the road the other night..they have a great taillight pattern...

Will be happy watching the tail end of this car go out the door...

On 3/16/2018 at 8:40 PM, smk4565 said:

The Continental name wasn't the problem, the lackluster car built on a Fusion chassis was.  

I would upvote this by a thousand if I could.

On 3/16/2018 at 11:58 AM, Frisky Dingo said:

Yeah, this car was just DOA. Too much money for what it is. And playing in a drying up segment to boot.

I have seen 2 on the road in the last month...and I have visited North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, South Carolina and a few other states by highway.

A few more years these will be as uncommon as an AMC Marlin. I ahve literally seen more Model A Fords out and about than modern contis.

On 3/15/2018 at 9:30 PM, daves87rs said:

It was bad when people inside Ford were questioning the release of this. It simply does not have a place-nor a price to justify it....

Again, if you and I can see it why could the people that run Ford Motor company not see this?

On 3/15/2018 at 7:12 PM, ocnblu said:

Well I think the Continental is a beautiful car.  They certainly catch the eye on the road.

Compared to an Altima, yes...I will give you that.

On 3/15/2018 at 3:55 PM, FAPTurbo said:

but a neo-nazi homophobe told C&G this car would take wings and fight europe and make the bad ol' electrics go away

This car is incapable of challenging Cadillac, much less Benz and the big boys.

9 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Will be happy watching the tail end of this car go out the door...

 

I would upvote this by a thousand if I could.

I have seen 2 on the road in the last month...and I have visited North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, South Carolina and a few other states by highway.

A few more years these will be as uncommon as an AMC Marlin. I ahve literally seen more Model A Fords out and about than modern contis.

Again, if you and I can see it why could the people that run Ford Motor company not see this?

Yep- Because any time the crowd gets a slight boner over something, Ford just has to get it out! 

They could have been much, much quicker on cashing in on the small truck craze....but no-the Ranger is coming out as things slow down...hope they don't expect these to just fly off the lots. Upside on this was that the investment was low...and I think small trucks will pick up again when they start leasing these like they do the big trucks....

A slow death this is going to have.

Lost in translation is what I think was the problem with this car.

It dont really matter on what platform FoMoCo decided to do this car on ....

What done this car in is that the car, did not keep the showcar quality dazzling details.

There are a plenty.

The stance.  Longer wheelbase. I think the Edge is on the same platform, right? And I think the Edge might have a longer wheelbase, right? So what gives?

The pristine and tight tolerances and the luxury car details. Concept down below.  Look at the hood. THAT hood and front area SCREAMS luxury. Tight tolerance. The hood closure is sealed shut and is one with the whole top front end. The bottom chrome trim. The back wheel arches have a certain presence with that bulge.  Muscular.

Just impeccable luxurious details.

What we got.

And front end hood and area that is the same as in a Ford Fusion.

No cleaned up chrome trim on the bottom. (That chrome trim was a helluva nice touch in my opinion.) No bulge at the rear wheel wells.

The actual production car just seems like a very ordinary ride. The production car we got should have been the MKZ...

Which low and behold...is what the MKZ actually is...(at least in the Continental and on the Fusion the hood area is more smoother...)

Had the Continental we got be exactly like the concept, Lincoln would have had a hit on their hands...instead, it was just a more expensive MKZ (for nothing) which in turn is a more expensive Ford Fusion...

Not good! (For the Continental and the Continental name plate...)

I, for one, think that the Continental is worth the money they are asking.  I also think that it does what Lincoln designed it to do.... bring back American luxury in a modern way.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it will workout from a sales perspective.  The segment is shrinking and the marketing (beyond to most people that are not into cars) has been limited.

The Navigator, on the same philosophy, is doing quite well.  There certainly has been more of a marketing effort for it, but it is in a more stable segment for sales.

Why would I pick the Continental over anything European or a Cadillac?  Because for the money, the Continental would check off every box I would be looking for.  I do not need or want all out performance in a full size (even though this is barely a full size car) sedan.  It looks better, to me, than almost anything else.  The Germans just don't style cars well to my eye and haven't since the 90's.  It is an American car.

The only other car I would seriously consider would be the Volvo.

I like the Continental, it's one of those cars I like a lot more after seeing in person than looking at just in pictures.   I've sat in them, seems like it would be a nice comfy cruiser. 

36 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I like the Continental, it's one of those cars I like a lot more after seeing in person than looking at just in pictures.   I've sat in them, seems like it would be a nice comfy cruiser. 

The price is a deterrent.  And it's not just the Continental.  One has to add the purchase price of such sleds plus all the pricey maintenance and complicated gizmos that could go sideways after the 7 year itch.  For one, I'm not sold on 100,000 mile transmission fluid change intervals under optimal conditions that automakers display in their manuals.  Cheap insurance:  do it about every 30,000 miles instead. 

I, too, am surprised that there are now FoMoCo and Chrysler products I like.  A decade ago, that would have been highly unlikely for me.

The key to owning something like the Continental is a lease...I wouldn't buy one.  Drive it 3 years then move on.  Or maybe a CPO w/ extended warranty. I wouldn't want to have any modern electronics-heavy vehicle out of warranty and aging.  I've learned from experience never keep anything from the 21st century past 100k miles, that's when the electronics tend to go to shit... 

11 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The key to owning something like the Continental is a lease...I wouldn't buy one.  Drive it 3 years then move on.  Maybe a CPO w/ extended warranty. I wouldn't want to have any modern electronics-heavy vehicle out of warranty and aging.

I agree. 

This opinion, for me, would apply to most any new vehicle purchase.

14 hours ago, dfelt said:

A slow death this is going to have.

The fallacy of sunk costs...they have already lost everything they need to loose...stop production and leave luxury to people like Benz, Cadillac and BMW who know what they are doing.

The only way to buy a Continental is in full zoot Black Label edition, but there is a lot of stiff competition at that price.  The Continental can certainly hold its own for what it delivers at that price but Lincoln has done nothing to convince buyers of vehicles in that price range why they should consider the car.  The Navigator is in a different boat, it has name brand recognition with those who may have bought one in the past and gives them a new reason to come back.  The people who bought Continentals new in the past have a good chance of being 6 feet under. 

On 3/16/2018 at 12:20 AM, riviera74 said:

I think Ford is having some issues selling the MKZ as well as the Continental.  Too bad neither car distinguishes themselves from the competition in any significant way.  Why would anyone switch to a Lincoln from a German car or a Cadillac?

This exactly.

This YouTube is almost half an hour long!  At times, I felt like I was listening to Chris Christie.

Here’s the real problem. Dearborn is delusional to think a one-and done will bring relevancy back to Lincoln. And they are stupid to believe Lincoln should relive the glory of the past. Fine, reuse old names, but do them justice. This car attracts no one who wants cutting edge and new fangled. It’s like the directive from up above was to maintain the old buyers while trying to cater to a new audience. What you get is a decent top end car while the rest is meant for fleet. What kind of model is that? No organic growth, no plan for a follow-up after this generation, and no clue about who their buyer actually is. They slapped a name on a car to get it attention, and then it’s moment was there, and now it’s gone.

If Lincoln was launched as a brand new car brand, and they had fresh ideas to deliver then that would mean something. But I’m almost.... heck I am eating my own words. This car...it has no momentum. It’s one of those things. Use it or you lose it. Lincoln forgot how to make a decent luxury car long ago. And this car is just not luxury even to me anymore. Whatever this car does well, a Hyundai that costs $15,000 equally equipped just does better.

28 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

Here’s the real problem. Dearborn is delusional to think a one-and done will bring relevancy back to Lincoln. And they are stupid to believe Lincoln should relive the glory of the past. Fine, reuse old names, but do them justice. This car attracts no one who wants cutting edge and new fangled. It’s like the directive from up above was to maintain the old buyers while trying to cater to a new audience. What you get is a decent top end car while the rest is meant for fleet. What kind of model is that? No organic growth, no plan for a follow-up after this generation, and no clue about who their buyer actually is. They slapped a name on a car to get it attention, and then it’s moment was there, and now it’s gone.

 

If Lincoln was launched as a brand new car brand, and they had fresh ideas to deliver then that would mean something. But I’m almost.... heck I am eating my own words. This car...it has no momentum. It’s one of those things. Use it or you lose it. Lincoln forgot how to make a decent luxury car long ago. And this car is just not luxury even to me anymore. Whatever this car does well, a Hyundai that costs $15,000 equally equipped just does better.

It makes you wonder if the real plan was that the One Ford Plan ultimately kills Lincoln since there is no true brand creator and advocate for the nearly 100 year-old marque.  Dearborn apparently has no vision for this marque, so the best thing to do I guess is to bury it like they Mercury a few years back.

The moral of this story is: GO BIG (Cadillac) or go home.  Stand for something or fall for anything (and eventually just fall).

The people who bought Continentals new in the past have a good chance of being 6 feet under. 

Well before this new one, they stopped selling the Continental in 2002, so sixteen years ago.  Some of those people may continue to survive.

41 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

The people who bought Continentals new in the past have a good chance of being 6 feet under. 

Well before this new one, they stopped selling the Continental in 2002, so sixteen years ago.  Some of those people may continue to survive.

The Conti probably won't though.

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well before this new one, they stopped selling the Continental in 2002, so sixteen years ago.  Some of those people may continue to survive.

True.

But...

The Continental then was not a huge hit amongst the young-uns.  The Lincoln LS, however, was.  So...Drew is right about that. OK...that statement was a tad over the top admittedly, doesnt change the fact that  what he said is not true, and what he said is:

16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Lincoln has done nothing to convince buyers of vehicles in that price range why they should consider the car.  The Navigator is in a different boat, it has name brand recognition with those who may have bought one in the past and gives them a new reason to come back.

 

The people who bought Continentals new in the past have a good chance of being 6 feet under. 

•  

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The people who bought Continentals new in the past have a good chance of being 6 feet under. 

Well before this new one, they stopped selling the Continental in 2002, so sixteen years ago.  Some of those people may continue to survive.

People who bought a 2002 Continental new were likely in their late 60s at the youngest.  I don't see the market for 84 year olds with a fondness for Continental being that large.

19 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

  For one, I'm not sold on 100,000 mile transmission fluid change intervals under optimal conditions that automakers display in their manuals.  Cheap insurance:  do it about every 30,000 miles instead. 

I can tell you as one who has a fair amount of auto's with the 100,000 mile transmission fluid change that these are not your 90's version Transmissions and from an Engineering standpoint do just fine. In fact worse thing you could do is take a modern transmission to a place that does not have the proper flush tools and just replaces the filter and puts a new gasket on and then refills the transmission. They actually are designed to go 100,000 miles with not being touched. All of my SUVs that do see off road have done just fine.

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

People who bought a 2002 Continental new were likely in their late 60s at the youngest.  I don't see the market for 84 year olds with a fondness for Continental being that large.

At 84 at the youngest, and assuming they are still alive and in health without them NOT being able to drive or medical bills stealing their life savings away...if an 84 year old was to buy a Lincoln today, Im assuming he/she would be sliding into one of these Lincolns...

MKC and MKX. And if Im not mistaken, these are selling well. Now, are 84 year olds buying these?

Yes...as a hater of SUVs, there is one thing I do understand, is that CUVs are easier to get in and out of compared to their sedan counterparts these days...so...I agree with you 100% Drew about the Continental!

The Continental had to show people WHY they should buy it over other cars in this segment. All that was said by everybody stating their reasons why the Conti failed are ALL VALID reasons and in my opinion...ALL REASONS GIVEN IN THIS THREAD ALL CONTRIBUTED TO THAT FAILURE one way or other!

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

At 84 at the youngest, and assuming they are still alive and in health without them NOT being able to drive or medical bills stealing their life savings away...if an 84 year old was to buy a Lincoln today, Im assuming he/she would be sliding into one of these Lincolns...

  

MKC and MKX. And if Im not mistaken, these are selling well. Now, are 84 year olds buying these?

Yes...as a hater of SUVs, there is one thing I do understand, is that CUVs are easier to get in and out of compared to their sedan counterparts these days...so...I agree with you 100% Drew!

Totally agree as most Boomers have stated they do not have the strength to sit down into a low riding car and would rather just slide their butts across the leather seats into a CUV..

Sitting low into a car is so overrated.

15 hours ago, riviera74 said:

The moral of this story is: GO BIG (Cadillac) or go home.  Stand for something or fall for anything (and eventually just fall).

What's interesting is that Cadillac was successful at reinventing itself while Lincoln has been far less so.  Could it be that there is room for only one American "standard?"  Nah.  Germany puts out several high-line brands:  Mercedes, BMW, Audi.  So, Lincoln could do it but hasn't pushed the envelope to the extent that Cadillac did.  It is amazing to look at who is behind the wheel of  a Cadillac anymore and see how far down the age demographic appears to have been pushed.  And, even if we're not talking about age, the drivers seem to exude a savvy that the modern day equivalent couple from "American Gothic" would not.

First time I saw the new Continental on the road, I thought it was a mishmash of MKZ and Taurus.  I'd rather they came out with something like a Toyota Century.

Random Lincoln comment that Olds' pictures reminded me.. I saw my first purple MKC the other day not 5 minutes after talking to the gf about how I wanted a purple MKC and I had never seen one. I love that color. It's so dark in person too... 

Too bad they were 2015's only and still had MFT so I'll never own one. 

47 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Random Lincoln comment that Olds' pictures reminded me.. I saw my first purple MKC the other day not 5 minutes after talking to the gf about how I wanted a purple MKC and I had never seen one. I love that color. It's so dark in person too... 

 

Too bad they were 2015's only and still had MFT so I'll never own one. 

Love that color too, Had no Idea they built these with that Color. Shame they do not offer it still on the current models.

What the auto company needs to do is build ALL AUTO's with a base paint job that is like in the Movie Total Recall where the secretary is able to tap a color pallet and change her fingernails to whatever color she wants.

This way you could give people a total custom color job with endless possibilities.

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

Love that color too, Had no Idea they built these with that Color. Shame they do not offer it still on the current models.

What the auto company needs to do is build ALL AUTO's with a base paint job that is like in the Movie Total Recall where the secretary is able to tap a color pallet and change her fingernails to whatever color she wants.

This way you could give people a total custom color job with endless possibilities.

Nice idea but too expensive to actually produce.

18 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Nice idea but too expensive to actually produce.

Economy of Scale always brings price down. Just takes a Dream, some work and eventually it becomes common.  

People can't find their car in a parking lot now, what would they do if a bird sits on their car and it goes from a deep, rich cranberry red to spruce green pearl effect mica metallic tint coat?