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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    By Drew Dowdell •

    Trump Raises Tariffs on All Mexican Goods

      ... 5%, to 10%, to 25% by October...

    Not content with a trade war just with China, Donald Trump has opened a second front in what is slowly turning into a trade world war.   Yesterday evening, Trump announced that beginning June 10th a 5% tariff would be slapped on all Mexican products coming into the country. That tariff would increase to 10% by July 1st and then go to its 25% maximum in October.  For automakers with razor thin margins, there is absolute certainty that the American consumer will end up paying these tariffs. 

    The White House said in a statement:

    Quote

    If the illegal migration crisis is alleviated through effective actions taken by Mexico, to be determined in our sole discretion and judgment, the Tariffs will be removed. If the crisis persists, however, the Tariffs will be raised to 10 percent on July 1, 2019. Similarly, if Mexico still has not taken action to dramatically reduce or eliminate the number of illegal aliens crossing its territory into the United States, Tariffs will be increased to 15 percent on August 1, 2019, to 20 percent on September 1, 2019, and to 25 percent on October 1, 2019. Tariffs will permanently remain at the 25 percent level unless and until Mexico substantially stops the illegal inflow of aliens coming through its territory.

    Goods from Mexico account for 13.6 percent of all imported goods to the U.S, totaling about $346.5 billion. Automobiles and their components are high on the list of goods that are imported from Mexico.  Further complicating matters is that components can move over the border up to 20 times before reaching their final assembly location. 

    General Motors and other domestic manufacturers are going to be hit especially hard.  GM imported 811,000 vehicles from Mexico last year. One of their recent vehicles, the Chevrolet Blazer, caused a stir for being Mexican built when it was put on display at Comerica Park in Detroit at a time when GM was closing five U.S. manufacturing facilities. General Motors eventually took the display down and replaced it with a US built Traverse. 

    Stocks fell sharply Friday morning in response to the tariff announcement. 

    Edited by Drew Dowdell

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    surreal1272

    I love how you laugh but you have no reasonable counter argument to the facts, just like everything else that has been presented to you here @ocnblu  

     

    Funny how it’s so similar to your ignorance towards EVs.

     

    Reality will not be kind to the ignorant. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    ocnblu

    Please quit trying to egg me on.  I am tired of fooling with you in this thread.  Please settle yourself.  I have to work tomorrow and I can't stay on here, nor do I feel like arguing with the tolerant left.

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    surreal1272
    14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Please quit trying to egg me on.  I am tired of fooling with you in this thread.  Please settle yourself.  I have to work tomorrow and I can't stay on here, nor do I feel like arguing with the tolerant left.

    Again, no one forced you to respond so stop acting like a baby. I presented multiple angles to this issue while you present “just build the damn wall”. 

     

    And for your information, I am neither left or right so maybe you should keep your childish assumptions to yourself before responding since it’s clearly such a burden to you and you are being forced to respond somehow. 

    “Please quit trying to egg me on”

     

    Now you know how everyone here feels when you troll endlessly and needlessly on EV threads you claim to have no interest in. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    oldshurst442
    On 6/1/2019 at 7:50 PM, ocnblu said:

    Is this going to keep going after his re-election?  Because there is no one on the horizon who can touch him in 2020.  Try to find some common ground.  Wish for congress to work for us, and not this obsession with Trump.  This obsession is damaging our country, and probably more important to the Dems, it is damaging their chances.  He is always two steps ahead, from the very start of his campaign.

     

    14 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I also said the Mexican government needs to step it up.  A third world country directly adjacent to the best country on the planet just does not work.  This is why we need border walls.  Canada is not third world, so that is why we don't need a northern border wall.  They have plenty of moose though, I suspect, and Trudeau wants to apologize to everyone and let anyone in, so there is that... hmmm... please, let me STOP, it is like the damn Chinese buffet, I love it when I am going up there time after time, but it gets to a point of regret, and then a promise to myself never to go back...

     

    21 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Please quit trying to egg me on.  I am tired of fooling with you in this thread.  Please settle yourself.  I have to work tomorrow and I can't stay on here, nor do I feel like arguing with the tolerant left.

     

    What obsession are you talking about?

    What is it you are talking about when you say is this going to continue?

    Then you bring in Trudeau from a whole different country and you accuse people from another country and your own countrymen of the "tolerant left", if that was an insult and a bad thing...yet YOU are the one to insult, accuse of ruining the country for not being united? 

    Like WTF dude??!!!

    Take a look in the mirror, man...intolerance is what is killing your country...and see who truly is the one NOT to want to get along...

     

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    G. David Felt

    (Reuters) - Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc could cover the cost of President Donald Trump's proposed tariffs on Mexican imports by raising burrito prices by around 5 cents for customers, it said on Monday.

    The Mexican-themed restaurant chain said costs could go up by about $15 million in 2019 and reduce its margins by 20-30 basis points if the tariffs suggested by Trump are enacted, Chief Financial Officer Jack Hartung said in an emailed statement to Reuters.

    Trump said last Thursday the United States would impose a 5% tariff on all goods coming from Mexico unless the flow of illegal immigrants across the United States' southern U.S. border.

    "We could also consider passing on these costs through a modest price increase, such as about a nickel on a burrito," Hartung said.

     

    (Reporting by Uday Sampath in Bengaluru; editing by Patrick Graham)

    Continuing the GLUM NEWS is that a Global Recession is REAL! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-economy/global-recession-fears-grow-as-factory-activity-shrinks-idUSKCN1T40EI

    Goldman Sachs says the chance of ratifying the new trade agreement has now fallen to 35% from 60% due to Trumps Tariffs. This will cause a contraction in the US economy.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-goldman/goldman-sachs-sees-u-s-trade-war-with-china-and-mexico-escalating-idUSKCN1T40OQ

    All around this is not a good policy and the US is being hurt big time long term with the Auto industry and electronics taking the biggest hit.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-mexico-threats/mexico-u-s-business-groups-urge-trump-to-back-down-on-tariff-threat-idUSKCN1T11K3

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    ccap41
    13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Please quit trying to egg me on.  I am tired of fooling with you in this thread.  Please settle yourself.  I have to work tomorrow and I can't stay on here, nor do I feel like arguing with the tolerant left.

    I'd say you triggered some quite well... ?

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    surreal1272
    2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    I'd say you triggered some quite well... ?

    He was the only one triggered with his name calling and political assumptions while offering not one source, cite, or reasonable argument to support his stance. It’s the same tactic he uses when trolling EV threads and he’s just mad that he got a taste of his own medicine. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    surreal1272

    Here’s he “skinny” of this whole tariff situation. It flies in the face of the current NAFTA arrangement and almost guarantees that the future USMCA deal or “NAFTA 2.0” will be dead in the water and it’s easy to see why. What country will want to make a deal with a man that just reneges on it at a moments notice just to satisfy his own ego? He has a forty year history of this so no one should be surprised that a deal won’t actually happen. Guess there’s always the North Korea deal though. Oh wait. 

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    ccap41
    10 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    He was the only one triggered with his name calling and political assumptions while offering not one source, cite, or reasonable argument to support his stance. It’s the same tactic he uses when trolling EV threads and he’s just mad that he got a taste of his own medicine. 

    OKAY. 

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    surreal1272
    6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

     

    So is this the song that you sing to yourself every morning yet don’t actually follow? Explains a lot about the “tolerant right” (see, it’s to label someone on the internet). 

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    Robert Hall
    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    So is this the song that you sing to yourself every morning yet don’t actually follow? Explains a lot about the “tolerant right” (see, it’s to label someone on the internet). 

    I don't think there is any such thing as a 'tolerant right', at least not these days...

    20 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Spent a lot of years in Florida and that is the exception not the rule. Now imagine trying cover thousands of miles of coastline and nearly endless water. 

    <sarcasm>

    Build that wall along the beaches!   :)   

    </sarcasm>

     

    (I am surprised the MAGA hat wearers haven't hollered about building walls or dams along the coastline of Florida and other Gulf Coast states). 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    surreal1272
    38 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I don't think there is any such thing as a 'tolerant right', at least not these days...

    Build that wall along the beaches!   :)

    The “tolerant right” remark was a tongue in cheek response to blu referring to me as the “tolerant left” because of you disagree with Trump and his supporters you’re somehow intolerant rather than just being a concerned individual is tired of being lied to by both parties and doesn’t just buy the latest bull&#036;h&#33; uttered by our current president. 

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    G. David Felt

    So then should we just build walls between the states and require special visa's to move state to state then? ?

    After all the art of the deal is dead, dictator for life is the focus here as well as killing the economy, increasing costs to use consumers.

    The Art of political negotiation compromise seems to be going the way of the endangered species around the world.

    We seem to be heading back to the ignorant days of caste system of have and have nots with those born into wealth thinking they are the rightful rulers of everyone else.

    Education is the great equalizer that is failing the leadership to learn from history and improve on the future as a global society!

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    ccap41
    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    I don't think there is any such thing as a 'tolerant right', at least not these days...

    Or left. 

    Everybody is blindly irrational. 

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    Robert Hall
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Or left. 

    Everybody is blindly irrational. 

    I don't know, I find the left more rational as their arguments/positions are more based in rational thought and science, while the right is based on religion and fake shit. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    G. David Felt

    Interesting story, Washington state is considered to have the best economy in the US right now plus the worst unemployment rate for those not college educated.

    https://www.king5.com/article/news/state/washington-has-best-economy-in-us-study-says/281-650f8fcc-d58e-4d9e-9ee1-375fc513755b

    One does have to wonder how Tariffs are affecting our ability to export products. Washington leads the country in Export of fruit, yet the asian rim is taking less exports than they used too due to the tariffs.

    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    I don't know, I find the left more rational as their arguments/positions are more based in rational thought and science, while the right is based in religion and fake shit. 

    History is riddled with religious leadership attempting to control through ignorance the population. Religion would rather have everyone stupid and poor to blindly follow them.

    I totally agree that rational thought and science from educated individuals usually brings calmer heads. We do not need another holy war on a global scale.

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    oldshurst442
    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

     

    Build that wall along the beaches!   :)

    No no no no...

    Winston Churchill said that we will shall FIGHT on the beaches...

    So...no walls on the beaches, please!

     

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    Robert Hall
    8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    No no no no...

    Winston Churchill said that we will shall FIGHT on the beaches...

    So...no walls on the beaches, please!

     

    I was being facetious, which should have been obvious.  I'll add sarcasm tags.

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    ccap41
    30 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I don't know, I find the left more rational as their arguments/positions are more based in rational thought and science, while the right is based on religion and fake &#036;h&#33;. 

    Seeing both sides go at it over various subjects and various people, I completely disagree. 90% of both parties blindly fling crap at each other and are completely unwilling to even listen to the other side. 

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    Robert Hall
    26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Seeing both sides go at it over various subjects and various people, I completely disagree. 90% of both parties blindly fling crap at each other and are completely unwilling to even listen to the other side. 

    The right, though has a lot of religious fanatics, anti-science, anti-education, bigots, racists, homophobes, xenophobes, technophobes, white nationalists, confederate flag wavers, puppy mill owners, gun nuts, etc...a lot of unsavory people--the lowest of humanity.  

    There used to be sane people in the Republican party--the moderates and pro-business, pro-military people but it seems they have been pushed out by the lunatics from the extreme right.

       The right/left sides aren't exactly equally comparable.  There is definitely some crazy stuff on the left too, but NOT REMOTELY to the scale of that coming from the right.  The right has lost it's mind in recent years...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    ccap41
    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    The right, though has a lot of religious fanatics, anti-science, anti-education, bigots, racists, homophobes, confederate flag wavers, etc...a lot of unsavory people. 

    And the left is filled with perfect saints? 

    If you're only seeing one side being irrational, I'm just going to stop now because there are problems all over the place and one side is not to blame for everything. In fact, pointing blame is exactly what the opposing sides like to do best. All a bunch of he-said, she-said bullsht(I hope somebody now has Limp Bizkit in their head!). 

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    Robert Hall

    I can't imagine the automakers would be thrilled about tariffs on products from Mexico...aren't a lot of pickups from GM and Ram built in Mexico, as well as engines?   And VW builds a fair bit in Mexico also..

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    G. David Felt
    1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

    I can't imagine the automakers would be thrilled about tariffs on products from Mexico...aren't a lot of pickups from GM and Ram built in Mexico, as well as engines?   And VW builds a fair bit in Mexico also..

    Yes, top end models are built in Texas, but the middle and low end models are built in Mexico and this is going to hurt the blue collar labor force more than the white collar.

    No matter what, Tariffs are not the way to go to solve social issues by hurting your own citizens with higher costs. 

    Tariffs are the tool of ignorant individuals.

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    ccap41

    ccap41 5,874

    Posted (edited)

     

    30 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    The right, though has a lot of religious fanatics, anti-science, anti-education, bigots, racists, homophobes, xenophobes, technophobes, white nationalists, confederate flag wavers, puppy mill owners, gun nuts, etc...a lot of unsavory people--the lowest of humanity.  

    There used to be sane people in the Republican party--the moderates and pro-business, pro-military people but it seems they have been pushed out by the lunatics from the extreme right.

       The right/left sides aren't exactly equally comparable.  There is definitely some crazy stuff on the left too, but NOT REMOTELY to the scale of that coming from the right.  The right has lost it's mind in recent years...

    I will politely, and completely, disagree with you. 

    10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I can't imagine the automakers would be thrilled about tariffs on products from Mexico...aren't a lot of pickups from GM and Ram built in Mexico, as well as engines?   And VW builds a fair bit in Mexico also..

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/31/automaker-shares-plunge-after-trumps-surprise-mexico-tariffs-gm-shares-fall-5percent.html

    Edited by ccap41
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    G. David Felt
    12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

     

    I will politely, and completely, disagree with you. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/31/automaker-shares-plunge-after-trumps-surprise-mexico-tariffs-gm-shares-fall-5percent.html

    Thanks for posting the news link. Appreciate that.

    I will politely and completely, disagree with you in regards to the scary right mental cases. Left has plenty too, both have lost their educated minds hung up on ignorant party line rather than looking to fix american working together.

    America's Extremist parties of the Left and Right, AKA Democrats and Republicans. 

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    ccap41
    2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    both have lost their educated minds hung up on ignorant party line rather than looking to fix american working together.

    Exactly. That is my point. 

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    balthazar
    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Tariffs are the tool of ignorant individuals.

    Gotta wonder why the soon-to-be global superpower China leans so incredibly heavy on them...

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    G. David Felt
    3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    And the left is filled with perfect saints? 

    If you're only seeing one side being irrational, I'm just going to stop now because there are problems all over the place and one side is not to blame for everything. In fact, pointing blame is exactly what the opposing sides like to do best. All a bunch of he-said, she-said bullsht(I hope somebody now has Limp Bizkit in their head!). 

    I give ya the remake ;)

    Yet some people are more like this:

    Then you have me which is more like this:

    or this:

     

    17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Gotta wonder why the soon-to-be global superpower China leans so incredibly heavy on them...

    So True, Dictators love power and Tariffs tend to allow them to stay in power. Freedom needs to break it.

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    Drew Dowdell
    5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Seeing both sides go at it over various subjects and various people, I completely disagree. 90% of both parties blindly fling crap at each other and are completely unwilling to even listen to the other side. 

    If someone said you had to do / better not do something because their imaginary friend in the sky said so, you wouldn't listen to them either. 

    If they wandered around saying the sky was purple, regardless of all evidence to the contrary, you wouldn't listen to them either.

    people can have their own opinions, but facts are facts. And when someone can't see facts because of their religion or political affiliation... then yes, you wouldn't listen to them either.

    I wish I could re-open the politics section on this site...  but I would require factual conversation, and too many people here can't handle it.  It would mostly be me and @Robert Hall looking at each other going "yep."...... "yep".

    5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    And the left is filled with perfect saints? 

    If you're only seeing one side being irrational, I'm just going to stop now because there are problems all over the place and one side is not to blame for everything. In fact, pointing blame is exactly what the opposing sides like to do best. All a bunch of he-said, she-said bullsht(I hope somebody now has Limp Bizkit in their head!). 

    No one said the left is filled with saints. But the cuckoo left is a lot less dangerous than the cuckoo right.  Oh no! They might try to get you to try a vegan burger! ??

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    riviera74
    3 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Gotta wonder why the soon-to-be global superpower China leans so incredibly heavy on them...

    Because China uses mercantilism as a means to essentially take over the world economically.  Tariffs are just one tool in their mercantile arsenal.  The liberal trade order has been under attack by China since at least 1990 and few have actually done much to stop them.  As much as I am a free trader (simply because consumers gain the most out of free trade), somebody is going to have to make China yield to the trade order already established.  I hate trade wars because of the consequences, but it may well be the only way to make China yield.  One problem: China can outlast any trade wars initiated by the United States since their leader basically answers to absolutely nobody.  Can the US sustain this trade fight for the next 6-8 years?  I highly doubt it.

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    Drew Dowdell
    8 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Because China uses mercantilism as a means to essentially take over the world economically.  Tariffs are just one tool in their mercantile arsenal.  The liberal trade order has been under attack by China since at least 1990 and few have actually done much to stop them.  As much as I am a free trader (simply because consumers gain the most out of free trade), somebody is going to have to make China yield to the trade order already established.  I hate trade wars because of the consequences, but it may well be the only way to make China yield.  One problem: China can outlast any trade wars initiated by the United States since their leader basically answers to absolutely nobody.  Can the US sustain this trade fight for the next 6-8 years?  I highly doubt it.

     

    All of this right here.  They undercut everyone else in the market to drive them out of business, then they take over the sector.  They've largely already done that with solar panels. China plays a very long game... not just quarter to quarter like us "silly capitalists". 

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    surreal1272

    Here’s what I know in regards to discussing politics. For eight years under Obama, I was criticized left and right over my displeasure with some of his policies (if only one could view the old MT forum archives). Now I catch hell for criticizing Trump. Both sides need to get the hell over it, if you ask me but I have noticed that the Trump camp seems to have a much tougher time accepting that than the old Obama camp. Just my observation. 

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    Robert Hall
    1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

    Here’s what I know in regards to discussing politics. For eight years under Obama, I was criticized left and right over my displeasure with some of his policies (if only one could view the old MT forum archives). Now I catch hell for criticizing Trump. Both sides need to get the hell over it, if you ask me but I have noticed that the Trump camp seems to have a much tougher time accepting that than the old Obama camp. Just my observation. 

    45 and his supporters seem to be extraordinarily thin-skinned and unable to handle any criticism, and fact-based truths.   It doesn't help that we don't really have a functioning Congress either...

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    surreal1272
    8 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    45 and his supporters seem to be extraordinarily thin-skinned and unable to handle any criticism, and fact-based truths.   It doesn't help that we don't really have a functioning Congress either...

    These downvotes and laugh emojis seems to back up that assessment lol. All bluster, no substance. ?

    Edited by surreal1272
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    dwightlooi

    GOOD! Buy American and you don't have to pay the tariffs. Free Trade = Suicide.

    And, for GM and all, the risk of tariffs now and in the future will make them hesitate to move production to Mexico. You cannot ask for a minimum wage, worker protection, environmental regulation, healthcare, unions and all the other stuff that jack up costs on the one hand, while on the other hand tell companies they don't have to pay any of that by just moving the jobs overseas and importing it to the USA without tariffs. 25% is not sufficient. Tariffs must be high enough and universal enough to negate ANY wage and regulatory advantage in offshore manufacturing.

    Trade which produces perpetual deficits is not in the best interest of the country and should be corrected or ended.

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    surreal1272
    29 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

    GOOD! Buy American and you don't have to pay the tariffs. Free Trade = Suicide.

    And, for GM and all, the risk of tariffs now and in the future will make them hesitate to move production to Mexico. You cannot ask for a minimum wage, worker protection, environmental regulation, healthcare, unions and all the other stuff that jack up costs on the one hand, while on the other hand tell companies they don't have to pay any of that by just moving the jobs overseas and importing it to the USA without tariffs. 25% is not sufficient. Tariffs must be high enough and universal enough to negate ANY wage and regulatory advantage in offshore manufacturing.

    Trade which produces perpetual deficits is not in the best interest of the country and should be corrected or ended.

    Tariffs implemented with China in the last year have increased our deficit with them. Tariffs are not the answer because no matter how much you tariff, we will never be able to compete with the cheap labor of China and many other countries. Innovation and creating new industry are the first steps in increasing our exports to others without the need of growth constricting tariffs.

     

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/03/06/us-china-trade-deficit-record-1242498

     

    To further illustrate how just implementing tariffs is an oversimplification that ignores far bigger problems. 

    https://www.econlib.org/tariffs-and-the-trade-deficit/

    Edited by surreal1272
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    oldshurst442
    3 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

    GOOD! Buy American and you don't have to pay the tariffs. Free Trade = Suicide.

    And, for GM and all, the risk of tariffs now and in the future will make them hesitate to move production to Mexico. You cannot ask for a minimum wage, worker protection, environmental regulation, healthcare, unions and all the other stuff that jack up costs on the one hand, while on the other hand tell companies they don't have to pay any of that by just moving the jobs overseas and importing it to the USA without tariffs. 25% is not sufficient. Tariffs must be high enough and universal enough to negate ANY wage and regulatory advantage in offshore manufacturing.

    Trade which produces perpetual deficits is not in the best interest of the country and should be corrected or ended.

    You see...

    I agree with all that what you posted!

    But...

    3 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

    You cannot ask for a minimum wage, worker protection, environmental regulation, healthcare, unions and all the other stuff that jack up costs on the one hand, while on the other hand tell companies they don't have to pay any of that by just moving the jobs overseas and importing it to the USA without tariffs.

    THIS right there!

    Are us North American consumers PREPARED to let go of our avarice for always consuming?

    Are we prepared to cut our ties with buying on credit, to be patient in not getting what we want right now, but by saving for it and if takes takes several years to acquire what it is that we desire, are we ready for that?

    Are we ready for paying our workers, our minimum wage workers a salary that they could actually live by and raise a family with?  And by that same token, are we ready to pay for our consumer products EXUBERANT prices and are we ready to learn how to cook again and STOP eating out because eating out will now be out of reach?

    Are we ready to do this?

    Because THIS is what it takes...

    Because THAT is how life really was back when America was truly great...

    Because free trade is what really opened up the doors for you and I to consume iPhones every 2nd year, to buy 55/65/75 inch TVs every other year  and each year the price of TVs drop by 500 bucks.

    Are we ready to put plastic protective sheets on our 1 good couch, to keep it as a family heir loom forever to pass it down through the generations  because carpenters and  upholsterers will now command dear dear salaries (the way it used to be)?

    Are we ready to learn how to sew, to learn how to cobble our old shoes and not throw out clothes just because and our we ready to NOT buy into brand names like Michael Korrs and Louboutin shoes?

    Because THIS is what it will take...

    Are we ready to live life with humbleness instead of excess?

    Dwight...

    I bet you overconsume yourself...

    I really dont think you live life the way your parents or my parents lived life for you to be dissing free trade the way you do...

    If you tell me that you live life very conservatively, that you do NOT eat out every other day, if you accepted your parent's old furniture and have NOT bought everything brand new on credit. then and only then will I give you some slack for this point of view....but if you do like every other Canadian and American the last 20-30 years and live life on credit, no saving what so ever, get a scratch on whatever thing-a-ma-jig you got, toss it out and buy another one or just plainly get the new  thing-a-ma-jig just because its the new shiny thing...then please, dont BS me...

     

     

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    balthazar

     

    10 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Tariffs implemented with China in the last year have increased our deficit with them. Tariffs are not the answer because no matter how much you tariff, we will never be able to compete with the cheap labor of China and many other countries. Innovation and creating new industry are the first steps in increasing our exports to others without the need of growth constricting tariffs.

    OR….. perhaps 'we' can start paying workers 22 cents/hr and work them 75 hrs/wk. That might help.

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    oldshurst442
    16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

     

    OR….. perhaps 'we' can start paying workers 22 cents/hr and work them 75 hrs/wk. That might help.

    This is the other flip side of what Im saying.

    We could blame China all we want.

    But we should blame ourselves too.  We let our politicians tell us that (over)consumption is a good thing. We got fooled into believing that living a good life is JUST about consumption. To consume, consume, consume products that will cost us less and less and less and we have created a throw-out society, voraciously consuming...and we let our corporate world tell us how and when we should consume and we let out corporations  leave to go where labour is cheap....and in our own countries, we let politicians and corporate big wigs tell us that we shouldnt be getting high wages either...for the menial jobs because  capitalism works best if CEOs get to buy helicopters to go to work but a minimum wage worker needs additional food stamps just to feed his family...

    Yes...THIS is what free trade done to us...

    But...for those that do have a decent wage job...there is still 2-3 cars outside his too big for what he needs house mostly fully furnished (some peeps have no furniture at all in their McMansions though) but all on credit...

    So...some of us actually done well with free trade...we got all the trinkets we want...and we get them on the cheap...and we use other people's money to get them, but we are 5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 paychecks indebted to them...

    So...blame China all you want...but we must take a look in the mirror when we do blame China...

    Free trade is not a bad thing...

    Its how as a people, choose to use free trade...

    Tariffs...

    Maybe the North American people needs an overhaul in their thinking about how they consume consumer products...maybe they should start consuming...less...

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    G. David Felt

    One thing that is overlooked is that countries like Spain, Greece, France, etc. where they do have tariff's but also have high wages, unions, etc. also have a very high unemployment especially in the youth ranks.

    Spain runs 20-30% import Tariff, as such, debt is higher and unemployment rates are crazy high.

    Tariffs are NOT the answer.

    image.png

    Here is a good read on the Tariffs of Spain: https://www.export.gov/article?id=Spain-Import-Tariffs

    Here is a good read on the debt to income in Spain due to Tariffs: https://www.magnuscmd.com/tariff-deficit-how-expensive-will-it-be/

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    balthazar

    Despite the fact that personal consumerism is 67% of GDP, there's no question in my mind that Corporate/Government VASTLY over-consume. And since the VAST bulk of Government's monies comes from personal consumers (IE: it's citizens, and by mandate), it is THERE I place any blame.

    I, for one, certainly do not over consume. In fact, I'm sure on a individual level I fail to meet the median rate.

    I agreed with dwight above; perhaps some would find the term 'balanced trade' better than 'free'. 

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    surreal1272
    39 minutes ago, balthazar said:

     

    OR….. perhaps 'we' can start paying workers 22 cents/hr and work them 75 hrs/wk. That might help.

    Sure. I’ll do that as soon as it costs $100 to buy a new car lol!

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    G. David Felt
    5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Despite the fact that personal consumerism is 67% of GDP, there's no question in my mind that Corporate/Government VASTLY over-consume. And since the VAST bulk of Government's monies comes from personal consumers (IE: it's citizens, and by mandate), it is THERE I place any blame.

    I, for one, certainly do not over consume. In fact, I'm sure on a individual level I fail to meet the median rate.

    I agreed with dwight above; perhaps some would find the term 'balanced trade' better than 'free'. 

    I also know that I under consume as I hate to shop compared to most it would seem, I also feel Balanced Trade is a better term for what all countries should strive to achieve.

    I also agree that our Federal, State, County and city governments all FAIL to live within a balanced budget and over consume to a point of hurting American society.

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    dwightlooi
    3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Tariffs implemented with China in the last year have increased our deficit with them. Tariffs are not the answer because no matter how much you tariff, we will never be able to compete with the cheap labor of China and many other countries. Innovation and creating new industry are the first steps in increasing our exports to others without the need of growth constricting tariffs.

     

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/03/06/us-china-trade-deficit-record-1242498

     

    To further illustrate how just implementing tariffs is an oversimplification that ignores far bigger problems. 

    https://www.econlib.org/tariffs-and-the-trade-deficit/

    Actually, yes you can. If the cost of an iPhone in China is $10 Labor and $200 materials, whereas in the USA it's $100 labor and $200 materials because US wages are 10x higher than China (it actually is NOT 10x more like 3~4x), then a 43% tariff will COMPLETELY eliminate any motivation to produce in China and export to the USA. $210 x 1.43 = $300.3

    A country like the USA has all the natural resources, manpower and technology to make EVERYTHING we need and want. Do do not need ANY trade. But we should be open to trade where is enriches out country. That requires that we export as much as import or more than we import.

    We can easily implement a tariff policy whereby we look at each country separately. If we have a surplus or no deficits we can have free trade. If we have a deficit, we raise tariffs progressively until there is ZERO deficit or a surplus. Any country who wishes to export to the USA with low tariffs or no tariff must find ways and adopt policies to buy more US goods. Or, they can choose to basically not trade with the USA, that's fine too. Trade volume is not important. Trade that generates deficit is not in the best interest of the nation and must be corrected or ended. Of course this is totally against WTO rules which is why we should withdraw from the WTO -- a treaty designed to favor developing countries and transfer wealth globally, just like we ended our participation in the Paris Climate Ripoff.

    Trade is BUSINESS. SURPLUSES are PROFITS that enriches a country. DEFICITS are LOSSES that impoverish a country. It is called MERCANTILISM.

    Not rocket Science. Orange Man understands it very well, so sleep well tonight knowing that for the first time in 50 years we are not lead by total morons.

    Edited by dwightlooi
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