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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    By Drew Dowdell •

    Trump Raises Tariffs on All Mexican Goods

      ... 5%, to 10%, to 25% by October...

    Not content with a trade war just with China, Donald Trump has opened a second front in what is slowly turning into a trade world war.   Yesterday evening, Trump announced that beginning June 10th a 5% tariff would be slapped on all Mexican products coming into the country. That tariff would increase to 10% by July 1st and then go to its 25% maximum in October.  For automakers with razor thin margins, there is absolute certainty that the American consumer will end up paying these tariffs. 

    The White House said in a statement:

    Quote

    If the illegal migration crisis is alleviated through effective actions taken by Mexico, to be determined in our sole discretion and judgment, the Tariffs will be removed. If the crisis persists, however, the Tariffs will be raised to 10 percent on July 1, 2019. Similarly, if Mexico still has not taken action to dramatically reduce or eliminate the number of illegal aliens crossing its territory into the United States, Tariffs will be increased to 15 percent on August 1, 2019, to 20 percent on September 1, 2019, and to 25 percent on October 1, 2019. Tariffs will permanently remain at the 25 percent level unless and until Mexico substantially stops the illegal inflow of aliens coming through its territory.

    Goods from Mexico account for 13.6 percent of all imported goods to the U.S, totaling about $346.5 billion. Automobiles and their components are high on the list of goods that are imported from Mexico.  Further complicating matters is that components can move over the border up to 20 times before reaching their final assembly location. 

    General Motors and other domestic manufacturers are going to be hit especially hard.  GM imported 811,000 vehicles from Mexico last year. One of their recent vehicles, the Chevrolet Blazer, caused a stir for being Mexican built when it was put on display at Comerica Park in Detroit at a time when GM was closing five U.S. manufacturing facilities. General Motors eventually took the display down and replaced it with a US built Traverse. 

    Stocks fell sharply Friday morning in response to the tariff announcement. 

    Edited by Drew Dowdell

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    riviera74

    I do not think the president cares if he hurts the auto industry or not.  More of these actions may lead our economy to a recession that is unwarranted.  Trade wars rarely go well for anyone.

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    smk4565
    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Trump is going to tax the American People because Mexico is not fixing crushing poverty and gang violence in El Salvador and Guatamala.

    K

    Exactly right.  Because either cost of goods goes up 5% and American consumers pay more, or companies like GM take a 5% hit in margin, and most auto companies are running 5% margin anyway.  He could impose a 50% tariff and immigration would not change at all.

    Even more stupid is the fact that we need more workers in this country and aren’t letting them in.

     

     

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    surreal1272

    Honestly it’s just too easy to point the endless stupidity involved with these tariffs especially with a neighboring country with which we have a pending NAFTA 2.0 deal that eliminates said tariffs. Just beyond a stupid move from the king of stupid moves. 

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    surreal1272
    32 minutes ago, Potluck said:

    But I thought we had a new NAFTA already.

    It hasn’t been ratified and it won’t even come to a vote until the fall at the earliest. It’s also not even likely to get passed at this rate. 

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    G. David Felt
    5 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    I do not think the president cares if he hurts the auto industry or not.  More of these actions may lead our economy to a recession that is unwarranted.  Trade wars rarely go well for anyone.

    He clearly does not care as he is not even capable of supporting America by buying and driving American. He used to brag about how great his Bentley or Rolls was, so let him move to those countries he loves to support and leave us alone.

    5 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    I do not think the president cares if he hurts the auto industry or not.  More of these actions may lead our economy to a recession that is unwarranted.  Trade wars rarely go well for anyone.

    So much for the Art of the Deal!, Clearly our current leadership is clueless on how to best lead America and show leadership to the world.

    Sadly, this is giving the Chinese the ability to take the new world leadership role from America. The future is grim on many fronts due to poor guidance and planning of America.

    Some have said with the Amount of US debt owned by China, 

    "Welcome to the Peoples Republic of America, a sovereign nation of China." 

    ?

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    FAPTurbo

    FAPTurbo 1,325

    Posted (edited)

    • Popular Comment

    i know white americans would throw their own mothers into a jet engine so they could continue being racist to hispanics ...

    but voting for someone who’ll raise the price on their pickup trucks? this must be one heckuva conundrum for the double-chinned Natty Ice and Oakley crowd.

    Edited by FAPTurbo
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    oldshurst442
    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    He clearly does not care as he is not even capable of supporting America by buying and driving American. He used to brag about how great his Bentley or Rolls was, so let him move to those countries he loves to support and leave us alone.

    Lets be fair though...

    Related image

    Related image

     

    But...once a liar...always a liar...

    Once a blowhard...always a blowhard...

    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/02/the-tale-of-donald-trumps-dotted-history-with-cadillac/

     

     

    Quote

     

    Donald Trump is a Cadillac kind of man it seems. According to Automotive News, during the unveiling of the current-generation Cadillac Escalade, Trump commented to an executive, “You did a great job. I think it’s beautiful. I want to buy one immediately.”

    The love affair dates back to the 1980s, when Trump, or so his side of the story goes, was approached by Cadillac to develop a super-stretch limousine bearing his name. Two versions were planned: the Trump Golden Series and the Trump Executive Series, the latter being slightly less lavish.

    In 1988, the two prototypes were completed, featuring every 1980s creature-comfort one could imagine, including a TV, VCR, fax machine, paper shredder and a cell phone.

    Then-Cadillac General Manager, John Grettenberger, remembers it a little differently.

    “He would input to the interior styling of the vehicle and allow Cadillac to use his name in promotional activity,” Grettenberger wrote in his 2011 book, Ready, Set, Go! My Life at General Motors, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Opel, and Isuzu.  “By doing so he intended to purchase fifty of them for his personal use. He was looking for means to transport high rollers from New York City to his hotel and casinos in Atlantic City and return.”

    After agreeing to build two prototypes, Grettenberger wrote of the happenings that took place after the fact.

    “The two prototypes were built but when it came down to approving the transaction and placing a purchase order for the fifty limos, nothing happened! Donald gave all sorts of reasons for a delay, purchased one for ‘his father,’ but no order for the remaining forty-nine. I’m not even sure what happened to the second prototype. … So much for the Trump limousine!”

    And so the tale ends of Trumps two Cadillac limousines.

     

     


     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    smk4565
    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     

    Carmakers See $18 Billion Wiped Out by Trump’s Mexico Threat

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/carmakers-see-18-billion-wiped-140214375.html

    No price too steep to stop rapists and murderers flooding our streets.  ?

    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Sadly, this is giving the Chinese the ability to take the new world leadership role from America. The future is grim on many fronts due to poor guidance and planning of America.

    Some have said with the Amount of US debt owned by China, 

    "Welcome to the Peoples Republic of America, a sovereign nation of China." 

    ?

    China will be the world super power within 20 years.  They have 1.5 billion people, and they spend their money on infrastructure and technology and not wars in the Middle East. 

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    riviera74

    The United States is more likely to lose its near-monopoly position on the world stage at this point.  China will benefit the most.  The USA (especially since we can get our own oil from the Permian Basin) can simply ditch the Middle East and leave them to Russia.  Of course, China has spent a lot of $$$$ on upgrading their military hardware too, not just technology and infrastructure.

    Too bad our president seems to think that bad 1980s solutions will solve the problems of the 21st Century, even against our allies and trading partners.

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    ocnblu

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    Too many of you guys don't want to put the blame where it belongs.

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    oldshurst442
    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    All this does NOT concern YOU or the United States OF America...

    You know what?

    THIS concerns YOU and the United States OF America...

    IRONY is that...those shythole countries YOU wanna talk about, well, a lot...a lot of similarities exist...

    Image result for homeless Americans

    Image result for homeless Americans

     

    Yet another public shooting...this one is fresh.  It happened YESTERDAY...

    From Fox news so YOU dont say to me its #fakenews...

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/at-least-12-deaths-and-several-injuries-at-virginia-beach-municipal-complex-police-say-shooter-also-dead-reports

    Image result for Virginia Beach shooting May 31 2019 Fox news

     

    Always looking at other's crap, while ignoring your own... I guess THAT is how you will get great moving forward...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    riviera74
    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    Too many of you guys don't want to put the blame where it belongs.

    You are right about conditions in Central America.  Tariffs will solve nothing because they are taxes on US importers, who will pass those taxes onto consumers.  Changing behavior requires something else that will directly affect Mexico, not torpedo the auto industry.

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    surreal1272
    8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    Too many of you guys don't want to put the blame where it belongs.

    I can put the blame where it belongs. Let’s start with all of our engagements and meddling in Central America since the 1930s that resulted in endless civil wars and despot leaders. Now, add in our failed “war on drugs” policies that started during the Nixon years and was amplified during the Reagan years, and you have the perfect recipe for the current disaster in that region. Maybe you should crack open a history book on it before spouting off pro-Trump propaganda. 

     

    https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9bea9ebc148

    4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Don't you get it, Canadian?  We don't need somebody else's crap.  We spend too much money on other people's crap.

    See above response. 

     

    Whats hilariously sad is that I never see folks labeling the Irish the same way as brown folks even though they also fled a $h!hole country situation for decades and we have tens of thousands of them here illegally in one fashion or another. Where’s our east coast wall that needs to be paid for by Ireland (that last part is clearly meant to be a joke btw)?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/psmag.com/.amp/social-justice/how-the-immigration-crackdown-is-hitting-the-irish-community

    Edited by surreal1272
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    surreal1272
    10 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    Too many of you guys don't want to put the blame where it belongs.

    Guess it’s a good thing you bought your Mexican made Jeep before those tariffs kick in. 

     

    Irony is definitely not without a sense of humor here. 

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    oldshurst442
    7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Don't you get it, Canadian?  We don't need somebody else's crap.  We spend too much money on other people's crap.

    I love the States, man!

    I love your country almost as much as I love my own!

    It pains me to see and hear all that is happening in your country.

    Ill stop with the political stuff. Only because reality of what our countries have done to other countries is hard to accept by some of us...yes...including Canada....

     

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    Drew Dowdell
    12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    What is Mexico doing at its southern border?  What is Central America doing to BETTER the lives of its citizens?  This is where the issues start.  The tariffs are a byproduct of decades of poor conditions in poorly run $h!hole countries.

    Too many of you guys don't want to put the blame where it belongs.

    That has nothing to do with raising taxes on citizens of the US!   It's like shooting yourself in the foot because your next door neighbor won't stop the guy two doors down from beating his wife. 

    All this is going to do is hurt the domestic economy. 

    8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Don't you get it, Canadian?  We don't need somebody else's crap.  We spend too much money on other people's crap.

    http://bfy.tw/NvKJ

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    ocnblu
    3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Guess it’s a good thing you bought your Mexican made Jeep before those tariffs kick in. 

    You've never heard me say I am against the car companies building vehicles in Mexico.  If Mexicans are employed, maybe they won't want to spill over.  But the Mexican government is weak, and conditions there are poor for too many Mexicans.  The Mexican government needs to step it up.

    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    raising taxes on citizens of the US

    That's the Dems' modus operandi

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    Drew Dowdell
    5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    You've never heard me say I am against the car companies building vehicles in Mexico.  If Mexicans are employed, maybe they won't want to spill over.  But the Mexican government is weak, and conditions there are poor for too many Mexicans.  The Mexican government needs to step it up.

    That's the Dems' modus operandi

    All of the tariffs are raising taxes on Americans. The tariffs have already exceeded the tax cuts for middle Americans. Now it's a GOP sop.

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    ocnblu

    Is this going to keep going after his re-election?  Because there is no one on the horizon who can touch him in 2020.  Try to find some common ground.  Wish for congress to work for us, and not this obsession with Trump.  This obsession is damaging our country, and probably more important to the Dems, it is damaging their chances.  He is always two steps ahead, from the very start of his campaign.

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    Drew Dowdell

    Not a chance. You think it's funny that he's raised taxes on most Americans? Just because it comes out of a different pocket doesn't mean it isn't still a tax.

    He's at his highest approval rating in his term and still has yet to break 50%.

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    surreal1272
    35 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Is this going to keep going after his re-election?  Because there is no one on the horizon who can touch him in 2020.  Try to find some common ground.  Wish for congress to work for us, and not this obsession with Trump.  This obsession is damaging our country, and probably more important to the Dems, it is damaging their chances.  He is always two steps ahead, from the very start of his campaign.

    GTFO. I could not stand Obama but I also know that these same folks would not work with him regarding anything. Where was your concern then? Oh that’s right. It only matters now that a republican is in office. Trump couldnt get $h! done with a GOP majority for the first two years and has literally lied about everything. This not an “obsession” as you call it. This is the truth. 

    54 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    You've never heard me say I am against the car companies building vehicles in Mexico.  If Mexicans are employed, maybe they won't want to spill over.  But the Mexican government is weak, and conditions there are poor for too many Mexicans.  The Mexican government needs to step it up.

    That's the Dems' modus operandi

    So you would have paid a 25% higher tax on that Compass just to prove your support for the president? Yeah, somehow I doubt that because then you would have to acknowledge the obvious flaw in the tariff game. 

     

    And please give a proper answer to the facts I gave earlier regarding this country’s role in making these $h!hole countries instead of down voting because it hurts that’s fragile little Trump supporting ego. 

     

    Don’t worry though blu. After these tariffs are implemented and our farmers start getting pinched even more, we can just have Trump throw another $15 Billion at them while deriding those “socialist democrats”. Making everyone but America great again. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    surreal1272
    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    That has nothing to do with raising taxes on citizens of the US!   It's like shooting yourself in the foot because your next door neighbor won't stop the guy two doors down from beating his wife. 

    All this is going to do is hurt the domestic economy. 

    http://bfy.tw/NvKJ

    LMAO! Love that link. Got to love the “America first” crowd that shows their support for it by buying a “Made in Mexico” car (that I’m sure they would have NOT paid a 25% tax on) and then whining about that same country because those people want to have a better life. Talk about “mixed messages”. 

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    oldshurst442

    WOW!

    Now I truly understand why all the downvotes...

    Anyway...

    Here is a little video I found a couple of months ago...maybe we could all laugh at the hilarity of this dude's editing!

    Its really funny.   I laugh my a$$ off every time I see it!

     

     

     

     

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    surreal1272

    I guess the truth really bothers some here if all they do is down vote you when you present facts while citing legitimate sources. Proof that gaslighting is real. 

     

    Here is a list of successful deals negotiated by the Trump Administration:

    1.

     

    Edited by surreal1272
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    smk4565

    This country has plenty of our own problems, drug addictions, gun addiction, I could go on and on.  And central American countries have problems too, yet I don't see us spending a trillion dollars there to fix help fix them like we did in Iraq so weapons contractors could get wealthy and we can save 50 cents a gallon on gas.    Blaming Mexico for problems is a lazy excuse for our own issues.  And I haven't seen any joint plan by USA and Mexico to clean up all the drugs, gangs and mess in central America in the past 20 years either.

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    surreal1272
    Just now, smk4565 said:

    This country has plenty of our own problems, drug addictions, gun addiction, I could go on and on.  And central American countries have problems too, yet I don't see us spending a trillion dollars there to fix help fix them like we did in Iraq so weapons contractors could get wealthy and we can save 50 cents a gallon on gas.    Blaming Mexico for problems is a lazy excuse for our own issues.  And I haven't seen any joint plan by USA and Mexico to clean up all the drugs, gangs and mess in central America in the past 20 years either.

    All problems this country helped create, from the remnants of the Monroe Doctrine to the useless war on drugs. How some folks don’t see that is simply beyond me. 

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    surreal1272

    @ocnblu—While you want Mexico to have these jobs so they stop coming here, please explain why Trump wants the opposite. Today, in support of his tariffs, one of his reasons for this was to get auto manufacturers to come back to the US. Now how can one support jobs for Mexico and support a policy that takes away those jobs?

    636C6690-D40B-465B-AE66-DBED07FC6144.jpeg

    Edited by surreal1272
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    G. David Felt
    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    That's the Dems' modus operandi

    WRONG, You really need to crack a history book to learn how much taxes the Republicans have raised on Americans. Taxes and approval of borrowing against pensions / SSA have been a two way street with both parties guilty of destroying the retirement plan of  America. Reagan actually did some of the worst damage against the SSA of all presidents. Clinton actually paid down more debt than any president.

    History page here if your interested in learning: https://www.ssa.gov/history/index.html

    PDF file for you to read the details of this history.

    SSA-History.pdf

    Throwing stones in a glass house when blame is equal on both sides of the coin and modus operandi you want to go over? How about the abuse and loss of rights to the LGBTQA. 

    This is the Modus Operandi of the Republican party!

    Our country has shown it's best in the last 40 years when both parties reached across the isle and worked on a balanced budget, paying down debt and living within the means of existing taxation. That was the Clinton Administration.

    Live within a budget, open competition for all and job growth.

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    balthazar

    balthazar 15,107

    Posted (edited)

    they BOTH suck and they BOTH raise taxes. All the time. Look at this mental defective I've got to live under :
    https://nypost.com/2019/02/09/new-jersey-wants-to-tax-the-rain/

    'Revenue streams' - that's the Prime Directive of Gov't in recent times. Look at the proposal to raise EV registrations to $1000 in one state. "How do we make up the lost revenue??" the lawmakers whine. YOU DON'T GET TO! ; there's zero guarantee you're going to get X-amount of dollars; there's no constitutional amendment that guarantees a fiscal influx. YOU'RE OUT OF FUCKING LUCK- MAKE IT WORK! Conditions fluctuate all the time and strong-arming your way to trillions of dollars because you can is legalized racketeering. And by the by- BALANCE THE FEDERAL BUDGET!

    Clinton lucked out because the economy was very good, internationally it was quiet, and he kept out of trouble chasing cheeseburgers & tail. He sucked, Bush sucked, Obama sucked, Trump sucks. I've listened to my mother rant about Trump, but when I asked her seriously who the last president she could say she really liked, she stopped, thought a long moment, and said 'Kennedy'. That's a lo-oooong assed dry spell.   

    Edited by balthazar
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    ocnblu

    God I hate talking politics.  Yes I will grant Drew the OP does involve cars, but look at this mess.  You guys know I do love to spark conversation in EV threads, but when it comes to politics, I'd just as soon not speak.  I was dragged in, and I should not have let it happen.

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    ocnblu
    7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Now how can one support jobs for Mexico and support a policy that takes away those jobs?

    I also said the Mexican government needs to step it up.  A third world country directly adjacent to the best country on the planet just does not work.  This is why we need border walls.  Canada is not third world, so that is why we don't need a northern border wall.  They have plenty of moose though, I suspect, and Trudeau wants to apologize to everyone and let anyone in, so there is that... hmmm... please, let me STOP, it is like the damn Chinese buffet, I love it when I am going up there time after time, but it gets to a point of regret, and then a promise to myself never to go back...

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    surreal1272
    7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    God I hate talking politics.  Yes I will grant Drew the OP does involve cars, but look at this mess.  You guys know I do love to spark conversation in EV threads, but when it comes to politics, I'd just as soon not speak.  I was dragged in, and I should not have let it happen.

    BS. No one drug you in. You chose to and only now seem to see you walked into a gunfight with a butter knife. 

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    surreal1272
    7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I also said the Mexican government needs to step it up.  A third world country directly adjacent to the best country on the planet just does not work.  This is why we need border walls.  Canada is not third world, so that is why we don't need a northern border wall.  They have plenty of moose though, I suspect, and Trudeau wants to apologize to everyone and let anyone in, so there is that... hmmm... please, let me STOP, it is like the damn Chinese buffet, I love it when I am going up there time after time, but it gets to a point of regret, and then a promise to myself never to go back...

    So no straight answer, no acknowledgement of our own country’s responsibility in the creation of these $h!hole nations you want to put down and now you think a damn wall is the solution? No wonder you don’t want to talk about this because you honestly have offered nothing of substance, just Trump talking points. Let me just say this about the wall. Go ahead and build the damn thing that Mexico was supposed to pay for and didn’t. After it’s done, I want you and every other Trump supporter to look at a map of the US and notice the over 10,000 miles of coastline. Are you going to put a wall around that too once everyone starts using these little thing called BOATS to get here?

     

    Having said that, how does Mexico step it up with jobs for their people if we are taking them away with tariffs, which again is Trumps states goal?

    Edited by surreal1272
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    ocnblu
    2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    Having said that, how does Mexico step it up with jobs for their people if we are taking them away with tariffs, which again is Trumps states goal?

    Sigh... riiiight... Trump ruined Mexico 100 years ago.  With tariffs.

    We don't need a border wall anywhere else except at our border with Mexico.  So, we're good.

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    surreal1272
    3 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Sigh... riiiight... Trump ruined Mexico 100 years ago.  With tariffs.

    Sigh...Good grief. Read the links to stories I posted yesterday as opposed to down voting the damn facts. And those tariffs are going to ruin us not Mexico.

     

    Maybe the reason why you can’t have political discussions is because you only want to discuss your politics while ignoring literally every damn thing else in front of you. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    ocnblu
    2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    little thing called BOATS

    Walls only work where people cross over on foot, Einstein.

    You are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours.  This is why politics cannot be discussed in a gentlemanly way.  #truthbomb

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    surreal1272
    12 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Walls only work where people cross over on foot, Einstein.

    Are you really this ignorant? Do you seriously. NOT think that they won’t start coming by sea? Please tell me you are not so foolish to believe that. Your cherry picking four words just shows how you clearly have no clue. 

     

    Putting up a wall there is like putting up a fence in front of your house but not around it. 

    Edited by surreal1272
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    surreal1272
    16 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Walls only work where people cross over on foot, Einstein.

    You are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours.  This is why politics cannot be discussed in a gentlemanly way.  #truthbomb

    No offense but you clearly wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you in the head with a brick. It’s what happens when you ignore history, facts, and empirical evidence, which is apparently the Trump way. “The Truth is not the truth”. 

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    ocnblu
    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    Are you really this ignorant? Do you seriously. NOT think that they won’t start coming by sea?

    Settle down.  We have other means of defending our sea borders.  Are you that willfully ignorant that you really think common sense dictates a wall at our sea borders?  You must be playing.  Please say so.

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    surreal1272
    30 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Settle down.  We have other means of defending our sea borders.  Are you that willfully ignorant that you really think common sense dictates a wall at our sea borders?  You must be playing.  Please say so.

    There is no playing here. It’s called reality. See Cuba and Florida before making that statement. We can’t even keep folks from crossing a 90 miles stretch of water.

     

     You also don’t get to tell anyone to settle down with your little “Einstein” remark. 

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    surreal1272
    11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    I dunno- the Coast Guard famously sunk an early 50s Chevy pickup AND a ‘59 Buick trying to cross to Florida. CG seems to be holding its line...

    Spent a lot of years in Florida and that is the exception not the rule. Now imagine trying cover thousands of miles of coastline and nearly endless water. 

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