Midsize Sedans Are Experiencing Sales Freefall

Very true, most people are fatter than they used to be, getting up out of a low sitting sedan is not what people want to do when they can just slide their rump in across the seats in a CUV. Taste has gone to fully support this but more than anything, people want space and the sedans do not give it compared to a CUV or SUV. It will be interesting to see how people support EV's like the bolt. Does the spacious interior drive sales or not?

It is good that Tesla brought out the model X....

The Fusion and Altima are not cars that are high on my list any ways...Wish jeep had done a better job with reliability in the Renegade, I would love to own one.

I suspect fuel prices are playing into this as well. I believe that Midsizers are going to whittle down going forward and eventually be a niche.

One problem is there are 16 mid-size sedans in one segment.  This is a huge segment, but you have so many players in it, some will fade away like the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Dart which small, but is dropping off in sales too and discounts won't save it.  There is a war of attrition going on in this segment, only the strong will survive.

A 2nd problem is outside of Subaru, it is hard to find all wheel drive on a mid-size or small sedan, but every crossover offers it, and the marketing people have convinced buyers that AWD = Safety and that they need it.

And most people aren't driving like they are on the Nurburgring, to plod along in traffic or around town a crossover handles just as well as most mid-size sedans, and you get the added space and higher seating position.  

And related to that, think of some of the crap sedans that people are trading in now.  If you have an 2006-2009 Malibu, Fusion, Sonata, W-body Impala, etc, and go drive a 2016 crossover, the 2016 crossover probably rides and handles better, might even get better gas mileage than that V6 family sedan of 10 years ago.  The consumers are just flocking to crossovers like crazy.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

One problem is there are 16 mid-size sedans in one segment.  This is a huge segment, but you have so many players in it, some will fade away like the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Dart which small, but is dropping off in sales too and discounts won't save it.  There is a war of attrition going on in this segment, only the strong will survive.

A 2nd problem is outside of Subaru, it is hard to find all wheel drive on a mid-size or small sedan, but every crossover offers it, and the marketing people have convinced buyers that AWD = Safety and that they need it.

And most people aren't driving like they are on the Nurburgring, to plod along in traffic or around town a crossover handles just as well as most mid-size sedans, and you get the added space and higher seating position.  

And related to that, think of some of the crap sedans that people are trading in now.  If you have an 2006-2009 Malibu, Fusion, Sonata, W-body Impala, etc, and go drive a 2016 crossover, the 2016 crossover probably rides and handles better, might even get better gas mileage than that V6 family sedan of 10 years ago.  The consumers are just flocking to crossovers like crazy.

Yeah, noticed most of the sedans are are moving here (Fusion) are because of the good leases out here. One thing I have noticed is that small sedans are taking a beating. Focus and new Cruze seem to be taking the brunt. But at least the Focus has the hatchback, while Chevy is only going to provide a "limited" amount of hatchback Cruzes, mostly being built as high end ones. Bonehead move on GM's part....I would jump on a no frills Cruze hatchback IF they offered one....

It's just wagon madness all over again, but this time they're a bit taller and have AWD.  AMC Eagle and the Dodge Colt Vista were ahead of their time. 

Only Subaru can really sell wagons these days, but over at Chevy, give the Sonic hatchback a 2 inch lift, AWD, and a new name, and suddenly Chevy can sell basically the same vehicle for $5k more. (The Trax shares platform, engine, transmission, and a substantial chunk of its interior bits with the Sonic).  Lux up the interior a bit, use nicer soft touch buttons from the Astra, and some active noise control, and Buick can sell it for $10k, $15k, or $20k more. 

Do you really blame auto manufacturers for going this route?

FCA's already killed the 200 and Dart, I've heard rumors the 300 may not get redesigned. On their latest five year plan update there's mention of Chrysler getting a couple crossovers. That leave just the Charger, Challenger, and apparently a convertible (Barracuda) for cars.

11 minutes ago, Intrepidation said:

FCA's already killed the 200 and Dart, I've heard rumors the 300 may not get redesigned. On their latest five year plan update there's mention of Chrysler getting a couple crossovers. That leave just the Charger, Challenger, and apparently a convertible (Barracuda) for cars.

 

I wish Sergio would just pull the rip-cord on his golden parachute already....

Seriously, in the last several years he's gone from being a leader to admire to one you can't figure out what on earth he's doing and how that seems like a good idea.

Fusion is doing okay because it is a good product and because Taurus is basically dying.  Chevy has too many sedans, they can probably consolidate too.  

These crossovers were once though as more of a premium car or more desireable I think because not as many people had them.  When 60% of the vehicles sold are crossovers and they are a commodity just like the CamCord I wonder if they will still be thought of that way.

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's just wagon madness all over again, but this time they're a bit taller and have AWD.  AMC Eagle and the Dodge Colt Vista were ahead of their time. 

Only Subaru can really sell wagons these days, but over at Chevy, give the Sonic hatchback a 2 inch lift, AWD, and a new name, and suddenly Chevy can sell basically the same vehicle for $5k more. (The Trax shares platform, engine, transmission, and a substantial chunk of its interior bits with the Sonic).  Lux up the interior a bit, use nicer soft touch buttons from the Astra, and some active noise control, and Buick can sell it for $10k, $15k, or $20k more. 

Do you really blame auto manufacturers for going this route?

They are basically selling highly profitable lifted hatchbacks, so no, I cannot blame them at all.

21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I wish Sergio would just pull the rip-cord on his golden parachute already....

Oh, I would go out on a limb and say we'll see him yanking that string with all his might when gas prices move beyond $2.50 to $3 a gallon again.

On 9/6/2016 at 10:43 PM, Intrepidation said:

Seriously, in the last several years he's gone from being a leader to admire to one you can't figure out what on earth he's doing and how that seems like a good idea.

Yep....

On 9/6/2016 at 9:42 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

It's just wagon madness all over again, but this time they're a bit taller and have AWD.  AMC Eagle and the Dodge Colt Vista were ahead of their time. 

Only Subaru can really sell wagons these days, but over at Chevy, give the Sonic hatchback a 2 inch lift, AWD, and a new name, and suddenly Chevy can sell basically the same vehicle for $5k more. (The Trax shares platform, engine, transmission, and a substantial chunk of its interior bits with the Sonic).  Lux up the interior a bit, use nicer soft touch buttons from the Astra, and some active noise control, and Buick can sell it for $10k, $15k, or $20k more. 

Do you really blame auto manufacturers for going this route?

Yeah.. I was about to say that the Tall Sonic U speak of is already being sold as the Trax/Encore. Two vehicles that are doing quite well in sales right now. The latter taking a hit because I'm betting the Envision is grabbing some of its sales. As much as my ex loves her Encore.. when she saw the Envision recently.. she instantly asked me if I would consider helping her trade. I told her to wait a few months for the vehicle to have a more choices.

On 9/6/2016 at 10:56 PM, smk4565 said:

Fusion is doing okay because it is a good product and because Taurus is basically dying.  Chevy has too many sedans, they can probably consolidate too.  

These crossovers were once though as more of a premium car or more desireable I think because not as many people had them.  When 60% of the vehicles sold are crossovers and they are a commodity just like the CamCord I wonder if they will still be thought of that way.

I agree with this. Walking into a dealership one will see the Impala, an exemplary vehicle, on the large side.. and new Malibu.. perfectly sized in the middle.. and I'm also betting good money that they are picking the Malibu. Seriously. Look at these two and U would swear that they are the same size, with one having a cheaper price. They have virtually the same WHEELBASE. Look at the sales. The Malibu is up 14.4% while the Impala is down 11.8% YTD. The next Impala would be a better fit merging itself with the Chevy SS/Caprice. It could then do other HD duties without bumping heads with the Malibu. I declare again.. the next Impala should be Omega (or L-Alpha) based, rwd/awd, and sport a V6 and V8 only. 

9 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Yeah.. I was about to say that the Tall Sonic U speak of is already being sold as the Trax/Encore. Two vehicles that are doing quite well in sales right now. The latter taking a hit because I'm betting the Envision is grabbing some of its sales. As much as my ex loves her Encore.. when she saw the Envision recently.. she instantly asked me if I would consider helping her trade. I told her to wait a few months for the vehicle to have a more choices.

 

 

She'll want to wait till at least the 2017 model.  The 2016s that are sitting on lots today don't have Apple CarPlay nor Android Auto. 

I think the Encore is taking a hit because it's about to get its refresh. 

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

She'll want to wait till at least the 2017 model.  The 2016s that are sitting on lots today don't have Apple CarPlay nor Android Auto. 

I think the Encore is taking a hit because it's about to get its refresh. 

Yeah. I told her the same. The Encore is well loved by her and the kids, but the larger Envision is very desirable as well.. especially to those who have awaited a larger tweener not as big as the Enclave.

12 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Yeah.. I was about to say that the Tall Sonic U speak of is already being sold as the Trax/Encore. Two vehicles that are doing quite well in sales right now. The latter taking a hit because I'm betting the Envision is grabbing some of its sales. As much as my ex loves her Encore.. when she saw the Envision recently.. she instantly asked me if I would consider helping her trade. I told her to wait a few months for the vehicle to have a more choices.

 

 

It's overly simplistic to say it.... but a $35k loaded Encore is really just a $15k Sonic with about $10k in upgrades.  GM's gotta be making lots of profit on these cars.

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's overly simplistic to say it.... but a $35k loaded Encore is really just a $15k Sonic with about $10k in upgrades.  GM's gotta be making lots of profit on these cars.

Billions. The dealership we bought the Encore from was a Chevy/Buick store. The Trax and Encore were sitting right next to each other. The exterior is certainly different.. and the interior is easily seen as an upgrade. I honestly bet good money that the upgrades don't even cost them $10K. That being said.. I'd put the Encore interior on Acura level at this point

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Billions. The dealership we bought the Encore from was a Chevy/Buick store. The Trax and Encore were sitting right next to each other. The exterior is certainly different.. and the interior is easily seen as an upgrade. I honestly bet good money that the upgrades don't even cost them $10K. That being said.. I'd put the Encore interior on Acura level at this point

The Envision interior is even a bigger step above the Encore / Acura.

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Billions. The dealership we bought the Encore from was a Chevy/Buick store. The Trax and Encore were sitting right next to each other. The exterior is certainly different.. and the interior is easily seen as an upgrade. I honestly bet good money that the upgrades don't even cost them $10K. That being said.. I'd put the Encore interior on Acura level at this point

Depends on the Acura.  I would say that no Acura currently built exceeds the 2017 Encore on interior quality, but there are more than a few Acuras that don't even measure up to it, including those priced well above the Encore's entry point. 

Acura interiors are on par with Honda interiors for the most part.  But an MDX is nicer than an Encore, that isn't really close.

Buick could use a 4th crossover in between Envision and Enclave, GMC needs a crossover below Terrain, they could get 10 crossovers/SUVs in that dealership channel.  

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Acura interiors are on par with Honda interiors for the most part.  But an MDX is nicer than an Encore, that isn't really close.

Buick could use a 4th crossover in between Envision and Enclave, GMC needs a crossover below Terrain, they could get 10 crossovers/SUVs in that dealership channel.  

I am gonna have to disagree with you. Coworker has a new MDX and I compared my other Coworker who just traded in his leased Encore for a new Encore and big difference. The current Encore beats the interior on the current selling MDX.  It really is surprising and nice. MDX does not win here. It truly boils down to what you like more than anything but to me, Encore wins over the MDX in quality of interior.

This:

Is better than this:

I wouldn't buy an Acura, and I think the MDX interior lags behind any German or the Lexus RX or even XT5, but the MDX is better than an Encore.  Look at all the plastic in the Encore, the lack of a center console, lack of real wood or aluminum trim, etc.

Still like this Encore interior better than the mess of the MDX.

having just gotten into my 16 Malibu i love that i was able to upgrade from the compact class to the midsize.  To me, the midsize sedan segment is sort of the 'luxury economy class' now.  You don't get punished with the small interior and sometimes lackluster and choppy ride of the small car.  For our second car the midsize option is large enough to hold family, but it's a lean athletic car with good ride and handling with great fuel economy.  Crossovers are all still heavy, tall, and few of them have much more than 20 mpg to offer.  Midsizers can offer what is now a comparatively sporty driving experience.  The Malibu with its new lighter weight feels nimble for its size.

Perhaps 16 options is too many in this class now but i think to thin the herd, the brands would die off first before they would vacate a staple segment.

I've said this in other threads here but I don't consider that the Malibu fulfills all that it would cannibalize the Impala.  The Impala has that solid robust deluxe feel and heft that many drivers still prefer.  The Malibu doesn't have that same complete feel that the Impala has.  GM's classic demographic still likes large cars too.  The new LaCrosse should do well.  GM may keep selling more crossovers but they will still move enough of the full sizers that Malibu + Regal won't eliminate the large ones.  If i had had more $$$ I certainly would have upgraded to an Impala or LaCrosse etc.

If gas hits 4.50 soon and if there is another killer recession, then people will not buy 60,000 dollar crossovers that get 18 mpg as much and the midsize class will be well positioned to move buyers down in price but give great mpg and better room and space than the compacts.  Let the market cycle before we predict midsizers demise.

I think we need to see the crossovers split into a sports crossover class and the regular crossover class.  something where you like have a crossover sitting on a Fusion chassis but it not as upright or high to sit in as an Edge.  Seat H point is maybe halfway between  and its got a more aggressive shape.

I think a couple of the midsizers could try to spruce the market up by offering the hatch or wagon options too.  Regal and Mazda6 would be great to try this.  Mazda6 wagon looks good.  Insignia liftback would be a very good market experiment here.

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This:

 

Is better than this:

 

I wouldn't buy an Acura, and I think the MDX interior lags behind any German or the Lexus RX or even XT5, but the MDX is better than an Encore.  Look at all the plastic in the Encore, the lack of a center console, lack of real wood or aluminum trim, etc.

I'm gonna call bulshit on your Encore Premium vs MDX comparison.. furthermore.. I like how U thru in the "even XT5" comment as the XT5 has been a favorite of all in having one of the best interior, if not the best interior in the segment it rolls.

7 hours ago, regfootball said:

having just gotten into my 16 Malibu i love that i was able to upgrade from the compact class to the midsize.  To me, the midsize sedan segment is sort of the 'luxury economy class' now.  You don't get punished with the small interior and sometimes lackluster and choppy ride of the small car.  For our second car the midsize option is large enough to hold family, but it's a lean athletic car with good ride and handling with great fuel economy.  Crossovers are all still heavy, tall, and few of them have much more than 20 mpg to offer.  Midsizers can offer what is now a comparatively sporty driving experience.  The Malibu with its new lighter weight feels nimble for its size  

 

Every one of the compact class has over 20mpg city ratings. The economy engines get up to like 34mpg highway(i think the cx5 does). 

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Acura interiors are on par with Honda interiors for the most part.  But an MDX is nicer than an Encore, that isn't really close.

Buick could use a 4th crossover in between Envision and Enclave, GMC needs a crossover below Terrain, they could get 10 crossovers/SUVs in that dealership channel.  

I was specifically thinking of the RLX interior which would feel right at home as a 2017 W-Body Impala.  I actually put it far below an Accord in terms of quality of materials and build. The 2016 Lacrosse was much better than the RLX and the 2017 increases the distance. The ILX, even the new one, is behind even the outgoing Verano in that same measure. Had Buick decided to bring Der Neu Astra over from Germany, it would have been no contest.  2016 MDX v. 2017* Encore?  I'd put them about even in material and build.  I haven't seen a production 2017 MDX yet to be able to compare. 

*Note the year.

The Impala needs to become the next SS/Caprice replacement as someone said. There's no point for the car to exist in it's current state. The Malibu is a better car. The Sonic could honestly go away. It's caught in the middle ground between Cruze and Spark- which is now a fine little car- outdated, and offers nothing compelling compared to similar rivals.

Regarding sedans in general, I think most makers would do best to condense their sedans into two segments. Make a full-size car- the size of the roomier midsizers on the market now- and compact- the size of Cruze, Corolla, Jetta, etc. Sedans are just too small to go further below that. Make a small hatch if you will- Fiesta, Polo, Spark, etc.

It'd be nice to see makers start focusing on making sedans sportier with a higher emphasis on driving dynamics that way they have something to offer to separate them from crossovers. Imagine if the new mainstream sedan race was who could build the sharpest, most fun, fastest car.

The Sonic is still one of my favorites in the segment despite being a bit outdated (though it got a refresh for 2017). It just feels like more car than the Fiesta or Rio... more solid and rides like a bigger car.  It also has the distinction of being one of the safest cars in the class. 

Going on a road trip in a Sonic is not a punishment on the ears and butt like it is in a Spark, Fiesta, or Rio.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Sonic is still one of my favorites in the segment despite being a bit outdated (though it got a refresh for 2017). It just feels like more car than the Fiesta or Rio... more solid and rides like a bigger car.  It also has the distinction of being one of the safest cars in the class. 

Going on a road trip in a Sonic is not a punishment on the ears and butt like it is in a Spark, Fiesta, or Rio.

Interesting take.

I wasn't too impressed with either of the two Sonics my last job used as delivery cars. I thought the ride was crashy and the brakes were too grabby.

3 minutes ago, Blake Noble said:

Interesting take.

I wasn't too impressed with either of the two Sonics my last job used as delivery cars. I thought the ride was crashy and the brakes were too grabby.

It's no Lacrosse... but compared to its segment competition, yes, it does feel more solid. 

For those of you wondering, right now you can nab a brand-new 2016 Chevrolet Malibu LS for around $17,000, or about $6,000 off sticker. That's actually roughly what you'd pay for a smaller Chevrolet Cruze LS.

Here's a dealer local to me selling a 2016 Malibu LS for $16,986, and another selling one for $17,995.

That really illustrates just how desperate some manufacturers are to move mid-sized sedans.

Hmmm... I wonder how cheap the Chrysler 200 is right now, especially considering they were desperate to give those away before everyone else?

I think Chrysler 200s are selling for $9,995 right now.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think Chrysler 200s are selling for $9,995 right now.  

I think you missed a one, please post the ad if you can find one as the cheapest I could find a 200 was a fully loaded 2016  200 Limited for $19,205. 2017 start at $22,995. This was on the west coast.

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I think you missed a one, please post the ad if you can find one as the cheapest I could find a 200 was a fully loaded 2016  200 Limited for $19,205. 2017 start at $22,995. This was on the west coast.

It was meant to be a joke.   I have no idea how big a discount they are shoveling on Darts and 200s.  

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It was meant to be a joke.   I have no idea how big a discount they are shoveling on Darts and 200s.  

Got it, I will correct your post then:

If you could pick up a loaded 200C for like $27k, that would be a very satisfying and comfortable way to spend that kind of money. Torquey V6, AWD, UConnect, heated and cooled seats, active cruise control.....  You're not going to get all that at Honda, Toyota, or even Chevy. 

But the Camry won't break down all the time or lose 50% of it's value in 1 year like a 200 will.

On September 9, 2016 at 0:26 PM, Blake Noble said:

For those of you wondering, right now you can nab a brand-new 2016 Chevrolet Malibu LS for around $17,000, or about $6,000 off sticker. That's actually roughly what you'd pay for a smaller Chevrolet Cruze LS.

Here's a dealer local to me selling a 2016 Malibu LS for $16,986, and another selling one for $17,995.

That really illustrates just how desperate some manufacturers are to move mid-sized sedans.

Hmmm... I wonder how cheap the Chrysler 200 is right now, especially considering they were desperate to give those away before everyone else?

No. Those are dealer service demos with miles on them at that price. Or 'limiteds'

44 minutes ago, regfootball said:

No. Those are dealer service demos with miles on them at that price. Or 'limiteds'

Nope.

Well, not in the case of the first car I linked to at least, anyway.

Full disclosure: I just took a job with that dealership and I can confirm that car, to my knowledge, was not a service demo.

By 'limited' are you referring to the Malibu Limited, the previous generation car that GM has kept around to sell alongside the new car for fleet buyers? If so, both cars I linked to are new generation models.

13 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

If you could pick up a loaded 200C for like $27k, that would be a very satisfying and comfortable way to spend that kind of money. Torquey V6, AWD, UConnect, heated and cooled seats, active cruise control.....  You're not going to get all that at Honda, Toyota, or even Chevy. 

Eh, you'd have to pay me $27k to put up with that nervous nine-speed nincompoop Chrysler uses as a gearbox in that car.

That's a shame, really. Aside from the transmission, I think the 200 is still a charming car and something of a tragic lost opportunity for the brand.

7 hours ago, Blake Noble said:

Eh, you'd have to pay me $27k to put up with that nervous nine-speed nincompoop Chrysler uses as a gearbox in that car.

That's a shame, really. Aside from the transmission, I think the 200 is still a charming car and something of a tragic lost opportunity for the brand.

Paired with an engine that actually has torque, it's not bad at all after they reflashed it. Behind the 2.4, the 9speed hunts for torque it will never find.

On September 9, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

It's no Lacrosse... but compared to its segment competition, yes, it does feel more solid. 

I have not driven the new Sonic but I drove a rental 2014 LT 5 door model (don't remember which engine it had right off the top of my head) when I was in NC two years ago. I rather enjoyed that little car. Took some getting used to the fact that I wasn't driving my Magnum (duh) but the handling on it was the first thing I noticed. It was actually quite nice and the steering was also very responsive for a car in that class. The cluster took getting used too but I had no problem with it like some magazine reviewers did. Overall it was a very nice car for the class and if I were twenty years younger, it would have been on the top of the list. I wil say this about the new Sonic. I don't like the new nose and headlights on it compared to the outgoing model. Just doesn't look as "sporty" to me and shows its Korean looks a little too much for taste. Nothing wrong with Korean car mind you, but the look does not work here. 

Well the Sonic is American made.  Anybody who has been here for any period of time knows I trade early and often.  Here's my current list of possibilities:

Mazda CX-3 Touring AWD

(without Bose radio that takes up precious cargo room).  This would make me a company man, as I work at our Mazda/Hyundai location.  We also sell all American brands of FCA and Buick/GMC.  We have a dark blue 2017 CX-3 Touring right now with no options for $24k MSRP.

Chevy Spark 1LT manual

Very worthy little car.  Heck, even Car & Driver loves it and calls it far and away the best in its class.  This could be bought and paid for with no payments.  Imagine that!

Chevy Cruze LT/RS hatch manual

All the latest GM small car thinking in a fine, practical form.  A larger car than the Spark with nearly comparable mileage ratings for about $7k more.  Stylish little beast, this one.

Chevy Trax Premiere AWD

Sliding my butt horizontally into and out of the seat has merit, and the AWD with 27 MPG average MPG rating, plus the upgraded 2017 style make it a real contender in a hot segment.  I would customize it with 2016 Trax Midnight Edition wheels.

Chevy Sonic Premiere RS 1.4t hatch manual

Very nearly the same cargo space as the Cruze hatch for about $2500 less money than the LT Cruze.  Very youthful appearance with the black wheels and whatnot, plus I really like the new 2017 style inside and out.

Buick Encore Essence AWD 153 hp 1.4t

Clearly upscale from its brother Trax, I think I could swing one of these with an employee discount.  Besides the price, only other thing I don't like is the stop/start business on the newer engine.

Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

I love the looks of these in Trailhawk form.  They drive like a bigger vehicle, they're comfortable and practical.  Plus I love the "baby butch" image they exude.  Two things though:  no green available on the 2017 model...  plus I went over to Edmunds' owner reviews for the 2015 (first model year) Renegade, and frankly there were too many frighteningly bad experiences, especially with electrical issues.  Disappointing.

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

I love the looks of these in Trailhawk form.  They drive like a bigger vehicle, they're comfortable and practical.  Plus I love the "baby butch" image they exude.  Two things though:  no green available on the 2017 model...  plus I went over to Edmunds' owner reviews for the 2015 (first model year) Renegade, and frankly there were too many frighteningly bad experiences, especially with electrical issues.  Disappointing.

Well, I mean, it's a Jeep. Electrical problems have been standard issue on all Jeeps since the late '90s.

True enough I guess.  Point to posting my very own wonderful list was... no sedans to be found.  If the Sentra SR Turbo with six speed manual came in a hatch, it may have made the list.

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

True enough I guess.  Point to posting my very own wonderful list was... no sedans to be found.  If the Sentra SR Turbo with six speed manual came in a hatch, it may have made the list.

When is the last time you bought a sedan?  I can't think of one in the entire time you've been here. 

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well the Sonic is American made.  Anybody who has been here for any period of time knows I trade early and often.  Here's my current list of possibilities:

Mazda CX-3 Touring AWD

(without Bose radio that takes up precious cargo room).  This would make me a company man, as I work at our Mazda/Hyundai location.  We also sell all American brands of FCA and Buick/GMC.  We have a dark blue 2017 CX-3 Touring right now with no options for $24k MSRP.

Chevy Spark 1LT manual

Very worthy little car.  Heck, even Car & Driver loves it and calls it far and away the best in its class.  This could be bought and paid for with no payments.  Imagine that!

Chevy Cruze LT/RS hatch manual

All the latest GM small car thinking in a fine, practical form.  A larger car than the Spark with nearly comparable mileage ratings for about $7k more.  Stylish little beast, this one.

Chevy Trax Premiere AWD

Sliding my butt horizontally into and out of the seat has merit, and the AWD with 27 MPG average MPG rating, plus the upgraded 2017 style make it a real contender in a hot segment.  I would customize it with 2016 Trax Midnight Edition wheels.

Chevy Sonic Premiere RS 1.4t hatch manual

Very nearly the same cargo space as the Cruze hatch for about $2500 less money than the LT Cruze.  Very youthful appearance with the black wheels and whatnot, plus I really like the new 2017 style inside and out.

Buick Encore Essence AWD 153 hp 1.4t

Clearly upscale from its brother Trax, I think I could swing one of these with an employee discount.  Besides the price, only other thing I don't like is the stop/start business on the newer engine.

Jeep Renegade Trailhawk

I love the looks of these in Trailhawk form.  They drive like a bigger vehicle, they're comfortable and practical.  Plus I love the "baby butch" image they exude.  Two things though:  no green available on the 2017 model...  plus I went over to Edmunds' owner reviews for the 2015 (first model year) Renegade, and frankly there were too many frighteningly bad experiences, especially with electrical issues.  Disappointing.

Awesome list, I think you should do the Trax or Encore.  Those are nice rides, probably the Encore as my choice out of that list.