German Legislators Want To Ban Gas and Diesel Powered Vehicles By 2030

I was mentioning this in another thread, this is the wave of the future, you might as well adjust emotionally now.

Think this is quite a good idea actually.

Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

Pathetic.

  On 10/11/2016 at 2:32 PM, Wings4Life said:

 

 

Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

 

 

 

I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

 

Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

 

Pathetic.

 

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I feel just the opposite.  Fossil fuels are inherently dirty and nasty, and Europe has a high population density.  This is infinitely rational.

It would also be really nice if the Untied States would follow suit.  Allow older ICE cars to still roam, but everything sold from 2029 onward must be electric.

Grandfathering in the older stuff would ensure no ones essential rights to drive their current car were violated, and it would also get us away from importing oil-a huge source of our trade deficit.

Do not want this sent off to politics, but so very tired of personally supporting other countries every time I fill up.

  On 10/11/2016 at 2:32 PM, Wings4Life said:

Fools.  Someone(s) is clearly trying to get a leg-up in their political careers. I swear, politics will be the downfall of modern civilization.

I won’t even bother to read the article, because a headline like that angers me.

Banning ICE after they have become, so clean and will soon get cleaner yet, will mean literally squat in the global scenario.  And that must obviously include hybrids too.  Ban Diesel, perhaps, but not clean PZEV gas engines.  And what about motorsports and boats and……..So what’s left, EV and it’s many limitations?

Pathetic.

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Whether you like it or not, fossil fuel auto's and trucks are coming to the end of their life. I covered the MB Semi's and that Japan has medium duty EV trucks. This is a perfect solution for city delivery, no noise, no pollution in the face of people walking the streets. It will not end immediately, but even if they stop building fossil fuel auto's and trucks in 2030. they will still have them on the road for a while.

Yet the future is coming and change is going to happen.

As long as I can keep my gas-powered cars and still drive them freely, I honestly couldn't care less.

That said, it won't happen.

  On 10/11/2016 at 3:55 PM, dfelt said:

Whether you like it or not, fossil fuel auto's and trucks are coming to the end of their life. I covered the MB Semi's and that Japan has medium duty EV trucks. This is a perfect solution for city delivery, no noise, no pollution in the face of people walking the streets. It will not end immediately, but even if they stop building fossil fuel auto's and trucks in 2030. they will still have them on the road for a while.

Yet the future is coming and change is going to happen.

 

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Yeah, I recall hearing that we would run out of oil like 20 years ago too.

And that we would all be in solar powered flying cars.

Oil will be around for many generations after you and I.  Like, many, many generations.  This is extreme and radical thinking.

  On 10/11/2016 at 4:35 PM, Wings4Life said:

Yeah, I recall hearing that we would run out of oil like 20 years ago too.

And that we would all be in solar powered flying cars.

Oil will be around for many generations after you and I.  Like, many, many generations.  This is extreme and radical thinking.

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What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

  On 10/11/2016 at 5:06 PM, dfelt said:

What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

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Cleaner air.  Sounds good.  That is not radical, at all.  The ways of going about it are and they also, more importantly, won’t work.

I am also for curing or at least reducing the ill effects of the flu.  But not by cutting off someone’s head.

You just complained of stinky Diesel, yet cheered their idea of killing gas ICE.  How about they offer gas for cheaper in Eu, so that people start buying more, instead of Diesel which is cheaper and far more harmful to health and air.  There is a simple start.  Air is quickly improved without tearing the heart out of the industry, which is what a radical move would do.  Then allow a slow migration into more hybrids and EV’s, rather than criminalize one or the other.

  On 10/11/2016 at 5:39 PM, Wings4Life said:

Cleaner air.  Sounds good.  That is not radical, at all.  The ways of going about it are and they also, more importantly, won’t work.

I am also for curing or at least reducing the ill effects of the flu.  But not by cutting off someone’s head.

You just complained of stinky Diesel, yet cheered their idea of killing gas ICE.  How about they offer gas for cheaper in Eu, so that people start buying more, instead of Diesel which is cheaper and far more harmful to health and air.  There is a simple start.  Air is quickly improved without tearing the heart out of the industry, which is what a radical move would do.  Then allow a slow migration into more hybrids and EV’s, rather than criminalize one or the other.

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Valid point well taken, cheaper Petro rather than diesel would do wonders. Also changing how they tax engine size would help too.

Overall, I think they could come up with a much better tax solution than they currently have. But step in right direction would be to tax diesel higher and lower on petro.

I understand your desire to move slowly as people choose to buy hybrids / ev's.

  On 10/11/2016 at 3:56 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

As long as I can keep my gas-powered cars and still drive them freely, I honestly couldn't care less.

 

That said, it won't happen.

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It may not happen all the way but chances are good for a significant transition.

  On 10/11/2016 at 5:06 PM, dfelt said:

What is wrong with extreme and radical thinking? If it helps cool the planet and clean up the air, then why not change to a better way of transportation and help out the planet, help out those that have lung issues. Why not radically change to make things better?

I was behind two semi's this morning and 4 school buses going off to pick up their kids. Amazing the amount of Diesel smell and pollution that was sent out when the light turned green.

Why not remove this from the streets and have silent auto's that do not cause you to breath that toxic waste into your lungs?

End result, is not all radical extreme thinking is bad, especially when it comes to the health of my fellow man and woman. Cleaner air for all.

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Agree completely with this!

  On 10/11/2016 at 5:57 PM, dfelt said:

Valid point well taken, cheaper Petro rather than diesel would do wonders. Also changing how they tax engine size would help too.

Overall, I think they could come up with a much better tax solution than they currently have. But step in right direction would be to tax diesel higher and lower on petro.

I understand your desire to move slowly as people choose to buy hybrids / ev's.

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Thanks dfelt, and I too understand your desire to fix global problems quickly.  But they have to be carefully thought out, and before we take giant steps that impact so many people and industry, costing them untold billions to adopt and certainly hardships along the way…..why evaluate and try simple ideas.  It’s not like we have not done plenty in the last 20 years alone.  Who knows where we will be in another 20,

  On 10/11/2016 at 6:26 PM, Wings4Life said:

Thanks dfelt, and I too understand your desire to fix global problems quickly.  But they have to be carefully thought out, and before we take giant steps that impact so many people and industry, costing them untold billions to adopt and certainly hardships along the way…..why evaluate and try simple ideas.  It’s not like we have not done plenty in the last 20 years alone.  Who knows where we will be in another 20,

 

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And this is excellent, rational thinking. I wish I could up vote it ten times rather than just once. We need rational debate and thoughtful interaction.

That being said, with Britain out of the EU and Germany as the most powerful member, i do wonder how much impact this will have on the other countries and on EU policy as a whole.

As Germany goes, so will go the EU.  They have so much influence, they hold up the EU economy.  Sweden and Norway were looking at gas powered car sales bans around 2025, so other countries are on board.  I think 2025 is too soon, but 2030 is still 13+ years away, by then electric cars will be much more viable and affordable.  Eventually all cars will be EV, they are just pushing the envelop faster.

The other thing to consider is they can say by 2030 they will ban gas cars, then in 2025, they can say we'll push it back to 2032 to give automakers more time, but you have to put that deadline out there, you can always push back, but you can't pull a deadline ahead.

I am fine with an all EV car fleet, less pollution is great, less noise is great, less buying oil of all the corrupt governments and terrorists of the Middle East is great too.   It will be a big win all around when we all have EV cars.  The EV cars just have to be affordable, you have to have $20,000 EV cars for people.

  On 10/11/2016 at 11:12 PM, smk4565 said:

As Germany goes, so will go the EU.  They have so much influence, they hold up the EU economy.  Sweden and Norway were looking at gas powered car sales bans around 2025, so other countries are on board.  I think 2025 is too soon, but 2030 is still 13+ years away, by then electric cars will be much more viable and affordable.  Eventually all cars will be EV, they are just pushing the envelop faster.

The other thing to consider is they can say by 2030 they will ban gas cars, then in 2025, they can say we'll push it back to 2032 to give automakers more time, but you have to put that deadline out there, you can always push back, but you can't pull a deadline ahead.

 

I am fine with an all EV car fleet, less pollution is great, less noise is great, less buying oil of all the corrupt governments and terrorists of the Middle East is great too.   It will be a big win all around when we all have EV cars.  The EV cars just have to be affordable, you have to have $20,000 EV cars for people.

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Agreed!

automakers are currently working on 2020 and beyond. So basically, they would have less than 10 years to prepare.  It's ridiculous to push it so fast.  Nothing will change in 10 years. Nothing will likely change in 100 and I would bet, if possible, very little in 500.  So again, why 10 years.  That is just economic suicide, for absolutely nothing.

The Issue is battery technology, Lithium is not a renewable resource nor is it environmentally friendly to mine. The batteries themselves degrade over time and need replacement after 5 yrs. I know 13 years is a long time but long strides need to be made if we want to sustain our current standard expectations from our vehicles.

  On 10/15/2016 at 5:31 PM, Cremazie said:

The Issue is battery technology, Lithium is not a renewable resource nor is it environmentally friendly to mine. The batteries themselves degrade over time and need replacement after 5 yrs. I know 13 years is a long time but long strides need to be made if we want to sustain our current standard expectations from our vehicles.

 

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We will continue to make progress.