Jump to content
Create New...
  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Dwindling Cobalt Supply Could Pose Problems For Electric Vehicles

      More electric vehicles mean more cobalt supply problems

    One of the key materials used in electric car batteries is cobalt. But there are growing concerns that the supply of cobalt is getting scarce as more and more automakers begin building electric cars.

    A new report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance says cobalt shortages are expected to happen earlier than previously forecast. This issue possibly brings a big challenge to the rollout of electric vehicles over the next five to seven years.

    "The long lead time to bring on new mines and the concentration of cobalt reserves in the Democratic Republic of the Congo mean there is a real possibility of supply shocks in the early 2020s," analysts from BNEF wrote.

    "If capacity does not grow as planned, cobalt prices could continue to spike and there could be a major cobalt shortage. This would have serious implications on the electric vehicle market."

    The price of cobalt has tripled within the past two years as more automakers begin building electric vehicles. Peter Deneen, the managing director at consultancy EV-Metals Resources Group said in an email that the market price for cobalt has risen in the "prospect of supply constraints". But the price doesn't include the potential risk of political upheaval in the Democratic Republic of the Congo - accounts for more than two-thirds of mined cobalt.

    Concerns have automakers accelerating development of batteries that have smaller amounts of cobalt. Chinese automaker BYD is expected to introduce batteries that have a nickel-manganese-cobalt ratio of 8:1:1 by the end of this year. BMW is expected to follow in 2021 with a similar ratio. According to BNEF's report, this chemistry will account for 57 percent of EV batteries by 2030.

    There is also the idea of recycling batteries that could provide 100,000 metric tons of cobalt a year by 2030. But the amount would have to mean all batteries from consumer electronics are recycled. Currently, the recycling rates around between 25 to 50 percent according to the report.

    Source: Bloomberg via Automotive News (Subscription Required)

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    The shortsighted plunge ahead into electric cars

    EVs comprise 1% of all new car sales, and that is optimistic. 

    Somebody in some lab will probably find a new way to create a battery without cobalt unless multiple new discoveries of cobalt ore are found and mined soon.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    EVs comprise 1% of all new car sales, and that is optimistic. 

    Somebody in some lab will probably find a new way to create a battery without cobalt unless multiple new discoveries of cobalt ore are found and mined soon.

     

    53 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

    Thinking they will find a way...

    There are new deposits, but it requires bringing into that country modern technology and of course no one but China is willing to put people into a place that is so unstable and China seems to want to keep it manual child labor to have total control.

    Lucky with Solid State both Japan and the US has solid state prototypes that do not need cobalt and could be in production by 2020. 

    Interesting times we live in and the fast changing world of auto's.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    7 hours ago, dfelt said:

     

    There are new deposits, but it requires bringing into that country modern technology and of course no one but China is willing to put people into a place that is so unstable and China seems to want to keep it manual child labor to have total control.

    Lucky with Solid State both Japan and the US has solid state prototypes that do not need cobalt and could be in production by 2020. 

    Interesting times we live in and the fast changing world of auto's.

    Yep, seems like everything is changing.....money, models, everything!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Support Chinese child labor, buy an EV! 

    Every electronic device that has a battery currently uses Cobalt. So in that regards you could say, Support Child Labor, buy a Smartphone. Support Child labor, buy a laptop, support child labor, pretty much any battery powered device that is Li based.

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/cobalt-precarious-supply-chain/

    This shows that while China is getting all their Cobalt from the DRC and supporting child labor, Japan and the US actually are getting their Cobalt from other sources with the main one being Cobalt Ontario, in the middle between the Nickel capital of the World and one of the most famous Gold camps.

    As I have stated around our Forum, Solid State batteries are the future and they DO NOT need Cobalt. In fact the Nickel based Solid State batteries could be totally handled just for the North America by Canada. So clean green EV auto's I still see as our future. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Stuff comes from various locations..just the nature of business..there is always unpleasant aspects to manufacturing, such is life.   most consumer electronics run on LI batteries; can't live like its 1699 like the Amish.  

    Sounds like an artificial substitute for cobalt needs to be created.  Maybe something that can be 3D printed en masse..

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, dfelt said:

    Every electronic device that has a battery currently uses Cobalt. So in that regards you could say, Support Child Labor, buy a Smartphone.

    The difference is everybody already has a smart phone and nobody is here saying they're the greatest thing trying to get more people to buy them, like EVs. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    They've already got R&D underway to replace it.  

    I would have assumed so if just to try and find something with more capacity in a smaller volume. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I would have assumed so if just to try and find something with more capacity in a smaller volume. 

    Exactly.  Even ignoring the potential rare earth mineral shortage, they are trying to get better energy density from batteries and it most cases that seems to be entirely different chemical compositions. 

    • Thanks 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    31 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    I would have assumed so if just to try and find something with more capacity in a smaller volume. 

     

    3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Exactly.  Even ignoring the potential rare earth mineral shortage, they are trying to get better energy density from batteries and it most cases that seems to be entirely different chemical compositions. 

    Currently the Nissan Leaf 2.0 uses No Cobalt as they use a Manganese / Lithium battery design. Tesla and GM are both looking at a Solid State replacement that would also not use Cobalt.

    I liked this story as it talks about Bye Bye Lithium / Cobalt, Hello Calcium Ion Batteries.

    Financial Post Story

    Yet while GM, Toyota, Hyundai, LG are all working on viable commercial production solid state Calcium Ion Batteries, the stepping stone seems to have come from a small start up in Tucson Arizona. Sion Power has come up with a commercial viable Lithium / Sulphur battery that provides double the energy density of existing Lithium-ion batteries today and improved safety.

    This company was infused in 2012 with a $50 million investment from German Chemical Major BASF to turn this idea into a commercial reality and they are now there. 2014 they tested the batteries with Airbus in a solar record breaking 14 flight using solar cells and these batteries for storage.

    Sion has now just LIcensed LG Chem TLD of Korea to start production of these new Lithium-Sulphur batteries for auto use. Example is that in a current Chevrolet Bolt battery pack at 238 miles of range for LIthium-Cobalt, now in a Lithium-Sulphur battery that would be 476 miles of range.

    Further info on Rechargeable Calcium-Ion Batteries can be found here: https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/web/2016/01/Rechargeable-Calcium-Ion-Battery.html

    So what was an Idea in 2012 for Lithium-Sulphur batteries, proven in 2014 and now in 2018 going into production for EV Auto's to come is what I believe we can see for Calcium-Ion Batteries. This means that we can possibly see these dense batteries in production for EV auto's around 2024 to 2026.

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Found this story published in August 2017 "10 Alternatives to Lithium-Ion batteries".

    https://dgit.com/10-alternatives-lithium-ion-batteries-4242/

    This covers both the pro's and con's of each one but the list goes as follows:

    1. Hydrogen fuel cells
    2. Lithium-Sulfur
    3. Graphene Supercapacitors
    4. Redox Flow Batteries
    5. Aluminum-Graphite Batteries
    6. Bioelectrochemical batteries
    7. Solar Panels
    8. Powered Roads
    9. Thin Film Batteries
    10. Solid State Batteries
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Seems recently a number of scientist are looking to replace the toxic Cobalt Cathode of Lithium-Ion batteries with a green solution that is actually plant based.

    https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/environmental-issues/green-battery-from-purpurn-04234324/

    Seems the Madder Plant which has been used for thousands of years as a dye also is an excellent cathode component.

    Cobalt requires a large amount of heat to melt and mold into the proper Cathode component of Lithium-Ion batteries. Now at room temperature, the Madder Root can be saves all the energy spent on cobalt in a green approach to a cleaner battery.

    They admit they are years from a commercial production solution, but right now the results they have gotten even in testing of this organic green battery have been very positive in charging / discharging cycles with stable results.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Found this story published in August 2017 "10 Alternatives to Lithium-Ion batteries".

    https://dgit.com/10-alternatives-lithium-ion-batteries-4242/

    This covers both the pro's and con's of each one but the list goes as follows:

    1. Hydrogen fuel cells
    2. Lithium-Sulfur
    3. Graphene Supercapacitors
    4. Redox Flow Batteries
    5. Aluminum-Graphite Batteries
    6. Bioelectrochemical batteries
    7. Solar Panels
    8. Powered Roads
    9. Thin Film Batteries
    10. Solid State Batteries

    Solar panels are not an alternative to batteries.

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Solar panels are not an alternative to batteries.

    That was my thinking too, but I do understand from the engineering process where they are hoping to increase the efficiency of solar panels to where an auto could gather light, convert it and power the auto.

    Yes big leap of SciFi thinking, but I see where they are coming from. :P 

    Dreams do some times become reality.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Just now, dfelt said:

    That was my thinking too, but I do understand from the engineering process where they are hoping to increase the efficiency of solar panels to where an auto could gather light, convert it and power the auto.

    Yes big leap of SciFi thinking, but I see where they are coming from. :P 

    Dreams do some times become reality.

    The only thing the solar panels that are on hybrids/EVs do today is keep the interior cool on hot days so that the main battery isn't drained by HVAC.

    But even then, it only runs while parked. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The only thing the solar panels that are on hybrids/EVs do today is keep the interior cool on hot days so that the main battery isn't drained by HVAC.

    But even then, it only runs while parked. 

    True, but think of efficient solar cells that send the power to a Graphene SuperCapacitor that they uses the stored energy for powering the auto. Possible ?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 hours ago, dfelt said:

    True, but think of efficient solar cells that send the power to a Graphene SuperCapacitor that they uses the stored energy for powering the auto. Possible ?

    Sure, if you let the car sit in the Arizona sun for about 4 months.  There just isn't enough surface area on the car to collect enough energy to do that. 

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Similar Content

  • Posts

    • Sending a Christmas eve chuckle your way: Here's Dyan Cannon, who has again poured herself into her clothing, to attend a Lakers game, which she does often. It looks like she can easily fit down many chimneys.  Maybe even into a Christmas gift stocking. I find the different chapters of Dyan Cannon humorous.
    • @Drew Dowdell @Robert Hall @trinacriabob @A Horse With No Name @ccap41 @surreal1272 @oldshurst442  And including all of the C&G members that are here that I do not interact with often enough or those I have forgotten their handles. Wishing each and every one of you a Merry Xmas Eve and Merry Xmas.  To those that do not celebrate Xmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, Happy time off. Wishing each and every person here a restful end to the year, one of love, respect, relaxation to you and your families. Wishing all the best!
    • MOU means that these companies have signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" to explore the participation, involvement and synergy sharing in relation to the business integration through a joint holding company. Back in August 1st, 2024 Nissan and Honda created a Joint Holding Company for the commencement of a strategic partnership focused on intelligence and electrification. This was to start the consideration towards integration of the two companies. Mitsubishi Motors has now signed onto this MOU to explore the possibility of achieving synergies at an increased level through business participation or integration. In basic terms, the three companies have agreed to join forces in sharing costs to move forward with EV platform R&D while they also look at the ICE "Internal Combustion Engine" gas side of having shared platforms to reduce costs and hopefully save the three auto companies by keeping them alive.  While Nissan and Honda have agreed to move forward in this integration of the two auto companies, Mitsubishi Motors will make a final decision by the end of January 2025 about possibly joining in with the integration of Mitsubishi Motors into this joint 3 auto company venture. Nissan and Honda have already agreed to a full SDV or Software-defined vehicles program moving forward that will allow them to have a solid crucial collaboration of intelligence and electrification for future products. Both companies have stated that the acceleration of technology and the rapid change of the auto industry will allow these two companies to maintain global competitiveness and deliver more attractive products and services for customers worldwide. Nissan global mobility product line merged with Honda four-wheel-vehicles, motor cycles and power products can allow both companies to become more attractive to shareholders and innovation of products to sell to customers worldwide according to the CEOs of both companies. Nissan and Honda have stated the following: Nissan and Honda aim to become a world-class mobility company with sales revenue exceeding 30 trillion yen ($190 Billion U.S. Dollars) and operating profit of more than 3 trillion yen ($19 billion U.S. Dollars). The expected synergies from the business integration at this time are: 1. Scale advantages by standardizing vehicle platforms By standardizing the vehicle platforms of both companies across various product segments, the companies expect to create stronger products, reduce costs, enhance development efficiencies, and improve investment efficiencies through standardized production processes. The integration is projected to increase sales and operational volumes, allowing the companies to reduce development costs per vehicle, including for future digital services, while maximizing profits. By accelerating the mutual complementation of their global vehicle offerings - including ICE, HEV, PHEV, and EV models - Nissan and Honda will be better positioned to meet diverse customer needs around the world and deliver optimal products, leading to improved customer satisfaction. 2. Enhancement of development capabilities and cost synergies through the integration of R&D functions In accordance with the MOU to deepen strategic partnership and the joint research agreement on fundamental technologies dated August 1, the two companies have started joint research in fundamental technologies in the area of vehicle platforms for next-generation software-defined vehicles (SDVs), which is the cornerstone of the field of intelligence. After the business integration, both companies will encompass more integrated collaboration across all R&D functions, including fundamental research and vehicle application technology research. This approach is expected to enable both companies to efficiently and swiftly enhance their technological expertise, achieving both improvements in development capabilities and reductions in development costs through the integration of overlapping functions.   3. Optimizing manufacturing systems and facilities The companies anticipate that optimizing their manufacturing plants and energy service facilities, combined with improved collaboration through the shared use of production lines, will result in a substantial improvement in capacity utilization leading to a decrease in fixed costs.   4. Strengthening competitive advantages across the supply chain through the integration of purchasing functions To fully leverage the synergies from optimizing development and production capacity, both companies intend to boost their competitiveness by improving and streamlining purchasing operations and source common parts from the same the supply chain and in collaboration with business partners.   5. Realizing cost synergies through operational efficiency improvements The companies expect that the integration of systems and back-office operations, along with the upgrade and standardization of operational processes, will drive significant cost reductions.   6. Acquisition of scale advantages through integration in sales finance functions By integrating relevant areas of sales finance functions of both companies and expanding the scale of operations, the companies aim to provide a range of mobility solutions, including new financial services throughout the vehicle lifecycle, to customers of both organizations.   7. Establishment of a talent foundation for intelligence and electrification The human resources of the companies are an invaluable asset, and establishing a strong human resource foundation is crucial for the transformation that will come with the business integration. After the integration, increased employee exchanges and technical collaboration between the companies are expected to promote further skill development. Moreover, by leveraging each company's access to talent markets, attracting exceptional talent will become more attainable. Method of business integration and stock listing Nissan and Honda, with the result of the consideration, plan to establish, through a joint share transfer, a joint holding company that will be the parent company of both companies. This will be subject to approval at each company's general meeting of shareholders and obtaining necessary approvals from relevant authorities for this business integration, based on the premise that Nissan's turnaround*1 actions are steadily executed. Both Nissan and Honda will be fully owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company*2. Additionally, the companies plan to continue coexisting and developing the brands held by Honda and Nissan equally. Shares of the newly established joint holding company under consideration are planned to be newly listed (technical listing) on the Prime Market of the Tokyo Stock Exchange (“TSE”). The listing is scheduled for August 2026. With the listing of the joint holding company, both Nissan and Honda will become wholly owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company and will be scheduled to be delisted from the TSE. However, shareholders of both companies will continue to be able to trade shares of the joint holding company issued during this share transfer on the TSE. The listing date of the joint holding company and the delisting date of both Nissan and Honda will be determined in accordance with the regulations of the TSE. Regarding the organizational structure of the joint holding company, and both companies which will become wholly-owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company after the business integration, the optimal structure for realizing synergies, including the integration of R&D functions, purchasing functions, and manufacturing functions, will be discussed and considered within the integration preparatory committee, with the aim of establishing an organizational structure that enables efficient and highly competitive business operations after the business integration. The CEO's of all three companies had the following to say: Marking the announcement, Nissan Director, President, CEO and Representative Executive Officer Makoto Uchida said: “Honda and Nissan have begun considering a business integration, and will study the creation of significant synergies between the two companies in a wide range of fields. It is significant that Nissan's partner, Mitsubishi Motors, is also involved in these discussions. We anticipate that if this integration comes to fruition, we will be able to deliver even greater value to a wider customer base.“ Honda Director and Representative Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe said: "At this time of change in the automobile industry, which is said to occur once every 100 years, we hope that Mitsubishi Motors' participation in the business integration discussions of Nissan and Honda will lead to further social change, and that we will be able to become a leading company in creating new value in mobility through business integration. Nissan and Honda will start the discussion from today onwards with an aim to clarify the possibility of business integration by around the end of January in line with the consideration of Mitsubishi Motors." Comment from Mitsubishi Motors Director, Representative Executive Officer, and President and CEO Takao Kato said: “In an era of change in the automotive industry, the study between Nissan and Honda about a business integration will accelerate synergy maximization effects, bringing high value also to the collaborative businesses with Mitsubishi Motors. In order to realize synergies and to make the best use of each company's strengths, we will also study the best form of cooperation.” Upon looking at the press releases, it makes total sense that these companies would look to merge as each company is having a challanging time. Nissan globally has seen a 33.7% reduction in sales taking the estimated 2024 market share to 5.2%.  Honda globally has seen a 9% reduction over all with a 32% reduction in the asian rim leaving them with a 2024 estimated 5.4% market share. Mitsubishi Motors globally has seen a reduction year over year of a 10.7% drop leaving them with a 2024 estimated market share of 4.6%. All three auto companies lag the industry in technology connected auto's, feature / functions and especially EVs. All three companies have seen their profits turn into negative earnings for their respective companies leaving them with no real ability to perform R&D in building EVs to compete in China or the U.S. let alone Europe that has mandates in place for the end of ICE by 2035. End result is it looks like for these companies to survive, merging into one company that shares platforms and technology especially in the software and battery sectors will be the only way to move forward. View full article
    • I think I'm dreaming ... this vehicle would be the oldest of my handful of favorite "blast from the past" cars. A Cutlass Salon coupe in perfect condition, the first year I liked the colonnade Cutlass (and it's last year, of 3, with round headlamps in the colonnade), those huge bucket seats, and, oddly, A/C is there, but with manual windows.  It featured the new but not as popular 260 (4.3L) V8.  It also featured the light enamel blue they didn't repeat.  If the exhaust system is tight, this car will be whisper quiet. 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (Numbers Matching Drivetrain) for sale: photos, technical specifications, description See anything odd?  Come on.  Quick. . . . It has Buick rally wheels instead of Oldsmobile rally wheels. * sigh ... I wonder what time frame this ad goes back to *
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search