Jump to content
Create New...
  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Carbon Motors Says DOE Rejected Their $310 Million Loan


    William Maley

    Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

    March 8, 2012

    Carbon Motors, the company behind the purpose-built E7 police vehicle will not be getting any of the $310 million in U.S. Department of Energy loans under the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing (ATVM) program that it applied for almost three years ago. Carbon Motors CEO William Santana Li says the company is a victim of politics.

    “We are outraged by the actions of the DOE and it is clear that this was a political decision in a highly-charged, election year environment. Since Solyndra became politicized last fall, the DOE has failed to make any other loans under the ATVM program, has pulled back one loan that it previously committed and, as of this month, the DOE has pushed aside the three remaining viable loans under active consideration," said Santana in a press release.

    "Each of these applicants has been caught for several years in a costly and extensive DOE due diligence process. Carbon Motors simply appears to be the last victim of this political gamesmanship. In failing to deploy the tax dollars that Congress allocated for the creation of advanced technology manufacturing jobs in the U.S., the DOE ATVM program represents a glaring failure of the Obama Administration to create jobs that are clearly within its power to create.”

    Back in December, Carbon Motors sent a letter to President Obama's Cabinet. The letter went point by point explaining why they should push the Department of Energy into approving their loans.

    When asked for comment, DOE Spokesman Damien LaVera said,

    “Over the last two and a half years, the department has worked with Carbon Motors to try to negotiate a deal that supported their business while protecting the taxpayers. While we were not able to come to an agreement on terms that would protect the taxpayers, we continue to believe that Carbon Motors is an innovative company with an interesting project and we wish them luck.”

    Carbon Motors says in their press release they're looking for alternatives to help them.

    Source: Bloomberg

    Press Release is on Page 2


    Carbon Motors Announces That ATVM Loan Caught in DOE Political Crossfire

    States Decision Not to Proceed with ATVM Loan is a Failure of Leadership

    Company Exploring Strategic and Financing Alternatives

    CONNERSVILLE, Ind.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today Carbon Motors Corporation, a homeland security technology company, announced that the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has indicated that it will not proceed with Carbon's $310 million application for a direct loan under the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing (ATVM) program. The ATVM program was established during the Bush administration and continued under the Obama administration.

    "Similar to the experiences of other applicants, we spent over 30 months responding to every request made of us by the DOE – many of which were at best challenging and at worst, unnatural"

    "We are outraged by the actions of the DOE and it is clear that this was a political decision in a highly-charged, election year environment. Since Solyndra became politicized last fall, the DOE has failed to make any other loans under the ATVM program, has pulled back one loan that it previously committed and, as of this month, the DOE has pushed aside the three remaining viable loans under active consideration," said William Santana Li, chairman and chief executive officer, Carbon Motors Corporation. "Each of these applicants has been caught for several years in a costly and extensive DOE due diligence process. Carbon Motors simply appears to be the last victim of this political gamesmanship. In failing to deploy the tax dollars that Congress allocated for the creation of advanced technology manufacturing jobs in the U.S., the DOE ATVM program represents a glaring failure of the Obama Administration to create jobs that are clearly within its power to create," commented Li.

    General Motors, Chrysler, Next Auto, Aptera, Bright Automotive and Carbon Motors all suffered through the horrendous DOE process that ended in nothing but a vote against the American worker. It clearly indicates an irrational pattern of rejecting or forcing withdrawals of viable applications of all sizes, both from established companies and promising manufacturing start-ups, according to Li.

    "Similar to the experiences of other applicants, we spent over 30 months responding to every request made of us by the DOE – many of which were at best challenging and at worst, unnatural," said Li. "During the past year we were in almost daily contact with the DOE staff and were neither advised that our application was coming up short in any way, nor told that there was anything we would need to do in order to finalize the loan that we did not satisfy. On the contrary, up until we were told the DOE would no longer work on our application, we had been assured that it was a top priority for the DOE and encouraged to continue with the multi-million dollar due diligence and negotiation process. Our experience, when viewed in light of the situation with other applicants, makes it hard to conclude that this action is anything other than a political decision to avoid further scrutiny of the ATVM loan program and of DOE officials," described Li.

    The Company noted that in recent months the DOE had gone so far as to send members of its loan monitoring team to meet with Carbon Motors in Indiana, and then subsequently requested a follow-up meeting in Washington DC. The loan monitoring team's role is to monitor DOE loans and work with borrowers after the loan has closed. These professionals do not play a material role in the process until a loan is finalized, which supported the Company's view that the DOE had not identified any material issues with the Carbon business plan that would impede the approval of the loan. In addition, in recent months the DOE staff held several meetings with Carbon's key partners, suppliers, investors and state and local officials and in each case, these parties were left with the impression that a positive decision on the loan was imminent. The Company expected the DOE to negotiate in good faith and, after several years of positive assurances, advise the Company if there were any real substantive issues with the plan that would need to be addressed in order to close the loan. The Company was not given any indication of any substantive issues and instead feels blindsided by government officials that simply failed to exhibit any real leadership in the face of typical election year political mudslinging.

    Carbon Motors is developing the world's first and only purpose-built law enforcement patrol vehicle, amid strong interest in its breakthrough "E7" product from law enforcement both domestic and foreign. The Company has received over 20,000 reservations for the "E7" vehicle from over 500 law enforcement agencies spread across all 50 U.S. states, in addition to interest in the product for export received from over 35 foreign law enforcement jurisdictions.

    As a truly purpose-built product, the E7 represents a substantial innovative step over the retail passenger vehicles that have historically been retrofitted in the aftermarket, with great improvements in areas such as occupant safety, operating cost, mission effectiveness and environmental impact, to mention just a few. "The E7 has been designed to meet all Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards with all law enforcement equipment installed, will increase fuel efficiency by up to 40% over the gas-guzzlers used today and, importantly, will satisfy substantially all requirements of the law enforcement mission," said Li.

    The Company's product strategy includes a state-of-the-art fuel-efficient clean diesel engine mated to an 8-speed transmission, and has been supported by over 50 world-class development partners and suppliers – many of whom have had their businesses materially impacted by this failure of leadership by the DOE, according to Li. The ATVM loan, together with the equity and other funding dedicated to the project was to be used to complete the development work on the vehicle in the U.S., as well as the tooling and facility costs necessary to produce the E7.

    The Company's plan submitted to the DOE included the creation of over 1,550 direct jobs in Connersville, Indiana, one of the areas hardest hit by the prevailing economic malaise, and approximately 10,000 total direct and indirect jobs throughout the country. "Bureaucrats in Washington may view inaction as the safest bet for them personally, but those who are without jobs today in Connersville and facing a very uncertain future have a very different view. Sadly, many of the people who are now in desperate need of a job in our country's heartland had contributed their hard earned tax dollars to the very fund that the DOE now appears unwilling to distribute to qualified candidates," said Li. The Company noted that the ATVM legislation passed by Congress and the Bush Administration included a loan loss assumption of 30% on the entire portfolio, which is reflective of the fact that there is always some inherent risk in funding a business of any size and new jobs will not be created in a risk-free environment – that is the essence of "Advanced Technology" reflected in the name of the program.

    "Although the DOE's new found focus on protecting taxpayer interest may be a good talking point for the media, in this particular case, it fails to ring true. The highly efficient Carbon E7 vehicle would have had dramatic savings for the U.S. taxpayer and every city, county and state struggling with budget deficits. The DOE's thoughtless decision just cost the U.S. taxpayer over $10 billion dollars of potential savings," noted Li.

    The Company sourced approximately $200 million of matching funds from a variety of private and state and local government sources, which, together with the ATVM loan, would put into effect one of the Company's stated goals of creating a true public-private partnership. "The truth is, government funds are already being used to pay for law enforcement vehicle substitutes – many of which function very effectively as retail passenger cars and none of which function well for the unique law enforcement mission," stated Stacy Dean Stephens, co-founder of Carbon Motors Corporation and a former law enforcement officer. "It is a basic role of government to protect its citizens. The Carbon ATVM loan (which would have been paid back with interest) would simply have ensured that the taxpayers were getting their money's worth as law enforcement end users would benefit from using safe and efficient products that actually work well for their mission," Stephens said.

    The decision is made even more puzzling when viewed in light of two of President Obama's Executive Orders: one calling for a 30% improvement in fuel efficiency among federal vehicle fleets, and one for coordinating policies on automotive communities and workers recovering from the Great Recession. "These goals are not going to be satisfied by simply wishing them to be – they require leadership by those in a position to deliver results," noted Stephens. By approving Carbon's ATVM loan, the DOE would have supported both of these Presidential Executive Orders putting 10,000 Americans back to work and reducing the fuel consumption of the 500,000+ law enforcement vehicles by up to 40%. The merits of the loan application were detailed in a letter to the President's Cabinet on December 15, 2011 (click here for letter).

    Carbon Motors has received substantial bipartisan political support of its business plan and mission to support the nearly 1 million law enforcement first responders in the U.S. "Our plan cuts across party lines and would have a positive impact on every highway, every street, every city, town, airport, road, port and congressional district. We remain honored to have had received so much support from leaders of all political stripes from around the country," said Li.

    The Company is actively examining its strategic and financing alternatives in support of its goal to provide law enforcement first responders with a purpose-built tool suitable for their critical mission.

    "Our country was not built by those who stood on the sidelines or by those who hid behind political convenience or by those too scared to lead. Our country was built by relentless entrepreneurs that despite the odds, despite the severity of the challenge, despite the roadblocks and despite the naysayers, rose to the occasion, led where there was no leader, and through innovation turned the impossible into the possible – no matter how long it took. We will continue the fight. We at Carbon Motors choose this path not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because it is just, because it is honorable and because we are Americans," exclaimed Li.

    About Carbon Motors Corporation

    Carbon Motors Corporation is a bold homeland security technology company on a critical mission to design, develop, manufacture, distribute, service, and recycle, the world's first and only portfolio of purpose-built law enforcement patrol vehicles. Learn more at www.carbonmotors.com.

    Contacts

    Carbon Motors Corporation

    Stacy Dean Stephens, 765-207-4044 ext. 718

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    While the police car prototype showed allot of promise, All the interviews and answers from the talking heads for this company were vague at best.

    Yes I laugh abot the ov looking out for the tax payer.

    This is more that in a politically charged election year, many are covering their arse to make sure they have jobs next year.

    I also though do challange their business plan which they have never really revealed in much detail even the places that want to order their cars. This makes me hesitate about wanting to sink money into this car.

    GM should consider partnering with them to build this car or some other auto company. I bet they could make a good profit on these cars.

    Nice Police car, they should work harder to find a way to build it.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    This is how the whole Carbon Motors thing can work...

    The idea of a purpose build law enforcement vehicle with suicde doors, plastic door panels, a water proof interior and integrated siren lights and compartment divider is a good one. The idea of trying to build a grond up vehicular platform and manufacturing infrastructure as a STARTUP company is a horrible one. $310 million is not enough to go down that road, $3.1 billion may not be enough for that matter.

    The way they can do is it to partner with a major automaker like Ford or GM. Pick one of their RWD platforms and existing powerplant. Alpha Platform + an Opel diesel six will get pretty close to what they are trying to do. Work the composite bodyshell and all the design features into the existing lower dorminant structure. Secure the manufacturing contract which subcontracts the manufacturing to the automaker. Obtain an Authority to Offer from their board and partner(s). Then go out there and book orders for a few thousand vehicles to boot. With ab out 5000~10000 firm orders, they can then initiate manufacturing in an established factory.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    This is how the whole Carbon Motors thing can work...

    The idea of a purpose build law enforcement vehicle with suicde doors, plastic door panels, a water proof interior and integrated siren lights and compartment divider is a good one. The idea of trying to build a grond up vehicular platform and manufacturing infrastructure as a STARTUP company is a horrible one. $310 million is not enough to go down that road, $3.1 billion may not be enough for that matter.

    The way they can do is it to partner with a major automaker like Ford or GM. Pick one of their RWD platforms and existing powerplant. Alpha Platform + an Opel diesel six will get pretty close to what they are trying to do. Work the composite bodyshell and all the design features into the existing lower dorminant structure. Secure the manufacturing contract which subcontracts the manufacturing to the automaker. Obtain an Authority to Offer from their board and partner(s). Then go out there and book orders for a few thousand vehicles to boot. With ab out 5000~10000 firm orders, they can then initiate manufacturing in an established factory.

    I totally agree, you should send the CEO a note on this. Yea he might have thought of ths also, but my gut tells me he was hoping for pulling the wool over the eyes of the GOV and taking the money and running.

    They can complain all they want but informed people see just how shady this deal is for the GOV/Tax payer.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    they need to partner with another automaker, like GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan.. etc... then offer to lease a shuttered GM or Ford assembly plant.. Fords plant in wixom Mich, there is a closed GM plant in Moriane Ohio,

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Posts

    • Sending a Christmas eve chuckle your way: Here's Dyan Cannon, who has again poured herself into her clothing, to attend a Lakers game, which she does often. It looks like she can easily fit down many chimneys.  Maybe even into a Christmas gift stocking. I find the different chapters of Dyan Cannon humorous.
    • @Drew Dowdell @Robert Hall @trinacriabob @A Horse With No Name @ccap41 @surreal1272 @oldshurst442  And including all of the C&G members that are here that I do not interact with often enough or those I have forgotten their handles. Wishing each and every one of you a Merry Xmas Eve and Merry Xmas.  To those that do not celebrate Xmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, Happy time off. Wishing each and every person here a restful end to the year, one of love, respect, relaxation to you and your families. Wishing all the best!
    • MOU means that these companies have signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" to explore the participation, involvement and synergy sharing in relation to the business integration through a joint holding company. Back in August 1st, 2024 Nissan and Honda created a Joint Holding Company for the commencement of a strategic partnership focused on intelligence and electrification. This was to start the consideration towards integration of the two companies. Mitsubishi Motors has now signed onto this MOU to explore the possibility of achieving synergies at an increased level through business participation or integration. In basic terms, the three companies have agreed to join forces in sharing costs to move forward with EV platform R&D while they also look at the ICE "Internal Combustion Engine" gas side of having shared platforms to reduce costs and hopefully save the three auto companies by keeping them alive.  While Nissan and Honda have agreed to move forward in this integration of the two auto companies, Mitsubishi Motors will make a final decision by the end of January 2025 about possibly joining in with the integration of Mitsubishi Motors into this joint 3 auto company venture. Nissan and Honda have already agreed to a full SDV or Software-defined vehicles program moving forward that will allow them to have a solid crucial collaboration of intelligence and electrification for future products. Both companies have stated that the acceleration of technology and the rapid change of the auto industry will allow these two companies to maintain global competitiveness and deliver more attractive products and services for customers worldwide. Nissan global mobility product line merged with Honda four-wheel-vehicles, motor cycles and power products can allow both companies to become more attractive to shareholders and innovation of products to sell to customers worldwide according to the CEOs of both companies. Nissan and Honda have stated the following: Nissan and Honda aim to become a world-class mobility company with sales revenue exceeding 30 trillion yen ($190 Billion U.S. Dollars) and operating profit of more than 3 trillion yen ($19 billion U.S. Dollars). The expected synergies from the business integration at this time are: 1. Scale advantages by standardizing vehicle platforms By standardizing the vehicle platforms of both companies across various product segments, the companies expect to create stronger products, reduce costs, enhance development efficiencies, and improve investment efficiencies through standardized production processes. The integration is projected to increase sales and operational volumes, allowing the companies to reduce development costs per vehicle, including for future digital services, while maximizing profits. By accelerating the mutual complementation of their global vehicle offerings - including ICE, HEV, PHEV, and EV models - Nissan and Honda will be better positioned to meet diverse customer needs around the world and deliver optimal products, leading to improved customer satisfaction. 2. Enhancement of development capabilities and cost synergies through the integration of R&D functions In accordance with the MOU to deepen strategic partnership and the joint research agreement on fundamental technologies dated August 1, the two companies have started joint research in fundamental technologies in the area of vehicle platforms for next-generation software-defined vehicles (SDVs), which is the cornerstone of the field of intelligence. After the business integration, both companies will encompass more integrated collaboration across all R&D functions, including fundamental research and vehicle application technology research. This approach is expected to enable both companies to efficiently and swiftly enhance their technological expertise, achieving both improvements in development capabilities and reductions in development costs through the integration of overlapping functions.   3. Optimizing manufacturing systems and facilities The companies anticipate that optimizing their manufacturing plants and energy service facilities, combined with improved collaboration through the shared use of production lines, will result in a substantial improvement in capacity utilization leading to a decrease in fixed costs.   4. Strengthening competitive advantages across the supply chain through the integration of purchasing functions To fully leverage the synergies from optimizing development and production capacity, both companies intend to boost their competitiveness by improving and streamlining purchasing operations and source common parts from the same the supply chain and in collaboration with business partners.   5. Realizing cost synergies through operational efficiency improvements The companies expect that the integration of systems and back-office operations, along with the upgrade and standardization of operational processes, will drive significant cost reductions.   6. Acquisition of scale advantages through integration in sales finance functions By integrating relevant areas of sales finance functions of both companies and expanding the scale of operations, the companies aim to provide a range of mobility solutions, including new financial services throughout the vehicle lifecycle, to customers of both organizations.   7. Establishment of a talent foundation for intelligence and electrification The human resources of the companies are an invaluable asset, and establishing a strong human resource foundation is crucial for the transformation that will come with the business integration. After the integration, increased employee exchanges and technical collaboration between the companies are expected to promote further skill development. Moreover, by leveraging each company's access to talent markets, attracting exceptional talent will become more attainable. Method of business integration and stock listing Nissan and Honda, with the result of the consideration, plan to establish, through a joint share transfer, a joint holding company that will be the parent company of both companies. This will be subject to approval at each company's general meeting of shareholders and obtaining necessary approvals from relevant authorities for this business integration, based on the premise that Nissan's turnaround*1 actions are steadily executed. Both Nissan and Honda will be fully owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company*2. Additionally, the companies plan to continue coexisting and developing the brands held by Honda and Nissan equally. Shares of the newly established joint holding company under consideration are planned to be newly listed (technical listing) on the Prime Market of the Tokyo Stock Exchange (“TSE”). The listing is scheduled for August 2026. With the listing of the joint holding company, both Nissan and Honda will become wholly owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company and will be scheduled to be delisted from the TSE. However, shareholders of both companies will continue to be able to trade shares of the joint holding company issued during this share transfer on the TSE. The listing date of the joint holding company and the delisting date of both Nissan and Honda will be determined in accordance with the regulations of the TSE. Regarding the organizational structure of the joint holding company, and both companies which will become wholly-owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company after the business integration, the optimal structure for realizing synergies, including the integration of R&D functions, purchasing functions, and manufacturing functions, will be discussed and considered within the integration preparatory committee, with the aim of establishing an organizational structure that enables efficient and highly competitive business operations after the business integration. The CEO's of all three companies had the following to say: Marking the announcement, Nissan Director, President, CEO and Representative Executive Officer Makoto Uchida said: “Honda and Nissan have begun considering a business integration, and will study the creation of significant synergies between the two companies in a wide range of fields. It is significant that Nissan's partner, Mitsubishi Motors, is also involved in these discussions. We anticipate that if this integration comes to fruition, we will be able to deliver even greater value to a wider customer base.“ Honda Director and Representative Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe said: "At this time of change in the automobile industry, which is said to occur once every 100 years, we hope that Mitsubishi Motors' participation in the business integration discussions of Nissan and Honda will lead to further social change, and that we will be able to become a leading company in creating new value in mobility through business integration. Nissan and Honda will start the discussion from today onwards with an aim to clarify the possibility of business integration by around the end of January in line with the consideration of Mitsubishi Motors." Comment from Mitsubishi Motors Director, Representative Executive Officer, and President and CEO Takao Kato said: “In an era of change in the automotive industry, the study between Nissan and Honda about a business integration will accelerate synergy maximization effects, bringing high value also to the collaborative businesses with Mitsubishi Motors. In order to realize synergies and to make the best use of each company's strengths, we will also study the best form of cooperation.” Upon looking at the press releases, it makes total sense that these companies would look to merge as each company is having a challanging time. Nissan globally has seen a 33.7% reduction in sales taking the estimated 2024 market share to 5.2%.  Honda globally has seen a 9% reduction over all with a 32% reduction in the asian rim leaving them with a 2024 estimated 5.4% market share. Mitsubishi Motors globally has seen a reduction year over year of a 10.7% drop leaving them with a 2024 estimated market share of 4.6%. All three auto companies lag the industry in technology connected auto's, feature / functions and especially EVs. All three companies have seen their profits turn into negative earnings for their respective companies leaving them with no real ability to perform R&D in building EVs to compete in China or the U.S. let alone Europe that has mandates in place for the end of ICE by 2035. End result is it looks like for these companies to survive, merging into one company that shares platforms and technology especially in the software and battery sectors will be the only way to move forward. View full article
    • I think I'm dreaming ... this vehicle would be the oldest of my handful of favorite "blast from the past" cars. A Cutlass Salon coupe in perfect condition, the first year I liked the colonnade Cutlass (and it's last year, of 3, with round headlamps in the colonnade), those huge bucket seats, and, oddly, A/C is there, but with manual windows.  It featured the new but not as popular 260 (4.3L) V8.  It also featured the light enamel blue they didn't repeat.  If the exhaust system is tight, this car will be whisper quiet. 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (Numbers Matching Drivetrain) for sale: photos, technical specifications, description See anything odd?  Come on.  Quick. . . . It has Buick rally wheels instead of Oldsmobile rally wheels. * sigh ... I wonder what time frame this ad goes back to *
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search