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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    California Mulls Ban On Combustion Engines

      Come on, don't tell us you didn't see this coming

    California is considering joining France and Great Britain in banning the sale of gas and diesel-powered vehicles.

    Governor Jerry Brown has been expressing an interest in banning the sale of internal-combustion engines according to Mary Nichols, chariman of the California Air Resources Board.

    “I’ve gotten messages from the governor asking, ‘Why haven’t we done something already?’ The governor has certainly indicated an interest in why China can do this and not California,” she said to Bloomberg.

    As we reported earlier this month, China is also considering a ban on internal combustion engines.

    California has set an ambitious goal reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 80 percent from 1990 levels by 2050.

    “To reach the ambitious levels of reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, we have to pretty much replace all combustion with some form of renewable energy by 2040 or 2050. We’re looking at that as a method of moving this discussion forward,” said Nichols.

    If California was to go forward with this, it would send massive shockwaves in the automotive industry due to the size of state's auto market. Last year, more than 2 million new passenger vehicles were registered, topping countries like France and Spain. Automakers would be under new pressure on making EVs the standard.

    But that doesn't mean California will have an easy time with this. While the state has the authority of writing its own pollution rules thanks to the 1970 Clean Air Act, they cannot be enacted with getting waivers from the EPA. With the Trump administration going on record that it would challenge California on any new environmental act, the state is looking for alternative ways to get what they want.

    “We certainly wouldn’t expect to get a waiver for that from EPA. I think we would be looking at using some of our other authorities to get to that result,” said Nichols.

    Nichols did say it will be a long time before something like this is implemented.

    “There are people who believe, including who work for me, that you could stop all sales of new internal-combustion cars by 2030. Some people say 2035, some people say 2040. It’s awfully hard to predict any of that with precision, but it doesn’t appear to be out of the question.”

    Source: Bloomberg

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    ccap41

    And my personal biggest reason, is my location's charging network is sh!t still. It's home or nothing. Okay, there are some places but they're out of the way and unrealistic to charge at even if I am in that town/city(city hall, banks, or Joe Schmo's house). 

    Would you prefer we all just hoot and holler for EV's and say how great they are and how they're the most practical vehicles? 

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    G. David Felt
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    And my personal biggest reason, is my location's charging network is sh!t still. It's home or nothing. Okay, there are some places but they're out of the way and unrealistic to charge at even if I am in that town/city(city hall, banks, or Joe Schmo's house). 

    I understand your Personal reason. Yet you could Choose if you wanted to change your habits if one wanted to embrace an EV. Then at the same time lead the complaints to your local representatives about investing in the charging infrastructure to get more.

    The west coast did this years ago and now we have a growing and well established network.

    Personal Choice I get, change is harder for some than others. It is a choice.

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    Drew Dowdell
    11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    And my personal biggest reason, is my location's charging network is sh!t still. It's home or nothing. Okay, there are some places but they're out of the way and unrealistic to charge at even if I am in that town/city(city hall, banks, or Joe Schmo's house). 

    Would you prefer we all just hoot and holler for EV's and say how great they are and how they're the most practical vehicles? 

    Do you regularly drive over 250 miles in a day?  I'm talking anything more than 2% of your driving.

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    ccap41

    Why would I want to go out of my way THAT MUCH to charge my car? Why wouldn't I wait for the infrastructure to grow?

    The vehicle's aren't anything that is so desirable that I would want to do that, yet. 

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, ccap41 said:

    Why would I want to go out of my way THAT MUCH to charge my car? Why wouldn't I wait for the infrastructure to grow?

    The vehicle's aren't anything that is so desirable that I would want to do that, yet. 

    You don't go out of your way... that's the point I'm trying to make.  How often do you go over 250 miles round trip in a single day?

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    ccap41
    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Do you regularly drive over 250 miles in a day?  I'm talking anything more than 2% of your driving.

    Sh!t no. I've already said multiple times here that a Volt's 50ish mile range would be perfect for me and I'd only using gas, realistically, once a week. But I have the option and ability to just do whatever or go wherever I want because it also has a gas engine. 

    2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You don't go out of your way... that's the point I'm trying to make.  How often do you go over 250 miles round trip in a single day?

    I would absolutely have to think differently(aka go out of your way) with a 100% EV than a gas engine. I'd have to make sure it is "topped off" daily for "just in case" stations where I have to drive 100 miles round trip because THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS SH!T AROUND HERE. 

    Edited by ccap41
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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, ccap41 said:

    Sh!t no. I've already said multiple times here that a Volt's 50ish mile range would be perfect for me and I'd only using gas, realistically, once a week. But I have the option and ability to just do whatever or go wherever I want because it also has a gas engine. 

    Then that right there is my point.  You would plug in your EV every night when you were done... you'd start each morning with a 250 mile range. You'd NEVER stop for charging EVER in your daily routine.  If you're going on a longer trip, you're already out of your routine, and there are apps to plan your trip for charging if you're going to need it. 

    You "fill up" literally every night, in the morning, unplug the car with a full charge and go. If your daily usage is less than 50 miles, you could go the entire work week without plugging it in. 

    You would save so much in fuel costs, that if you absolutely needed to do a trip the EV couldn't do (and that factor is diminishing daily), that the money saved in fuel would rent you a nice car for the trip.

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    G. David Felt

    @ccap41 If you would, I would love to know your zip code and current auto your driving.  I can then look at the average cost of gas and the average cost of a kWh of Electricity and post the comparison of you driving your car a month to an EV. It would be interesting to see plugging in at home with no more trips to the gas station versus your current routine.

    I know for me, the Trailblazer SS AWD goes through $400 a month in Gas for 1200 miles driven a month. The Chevy Bolt would cost just under $30 a month. So the change not only covers the cost of the auto especially with some of the deals going on but I save big time.

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    ccap41

    I've already posted my zip here yesterday or the day before but it's 62249. Currently still in my kickass(LOL)2016 Focus Hatch. 

     

    39 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Then that right there is my point.  You would plug in your EV every night when you were done... you'd start each morning with a 250 mile range. You'd NEVER stop for charging EVER in your daily routine.  If you're going on a longer trip, you're already out of your routine, and there are apps to plan your trip for charging if you're going to need it. 

    You "fill up" literally every night, in the morning, unplug the car with a full charge and go. If your daily usage is less than 50 miles, you could go the entire work week without plugging it in. 

    You would save so much in fuel costs, that if you absolutely needed to do a trip the EV couldn't do (and that factor is diminishing daily), that the money saved in fuel would rent you a nice car for the trip.

    Or... Just by a Volt and never have to worry about that. And it looks better than a Bolt, imo. 

    But then we're past the whole drag racing thing that was brought up..

    My statement there still holds true, unless they have a charger at the track for EVs they're not very practical for the sport quite yet. 

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    G. David Felt
    5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    About 1000

    OK, based on your zip code and I see you can choose who your power supplier is, here is the info I found and the costs of your ICE versus a Chevy Bolt.

    ELECTRIC Rates for the Top 3 providers:

    Constellation rate average 5.39 cents per kWh

    Public Power rate average 5.95 cents per kWh

    Direct Energy rate average 6 cents per kWh

    Based on 24 month contract for an average of 5.78 cents per kWh across the 3 companies.

     

    Gas price for Regular average cost per gallon - $2.64

     

    Figure 12,000 miles a year

     

    2016 Ford Focus Hatch rated at 26 city 36 highway EPA average of 30 mpg

    12,000 / 30 = 400 gallons of gas a year or a cost of $1,056

    Monthly cost of $88.00 for gas

     

    Chevy Bolt 238 mile 60 kWh battery pack.

    12,000 / 238 = 50.42 charges of the battery pack

    60 * .0578 = $3.468 per battery pack charge at home.

    Monthly cost for 1000 miles = $14.57

    Yearly cost for 12,000 miles = $174.86

    Course if I went with the Cheapest only rather than an average, then you are looking at the following:

    60 * .0539 = $3.23 per battery pack charge.

    Monthly Cost = $13.57

    Yearly Cost = $162.86

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    ykX

    @dfelt Actual electrical rates including taxes will be around $0.10 - $0.12 per kWh.

    Bolt on regular power outlet charges about 4 miles of range per one hour, so 10 hours of charge will only provide 40 miles of range, 12 hours - 48 miles.  So realistically you need fast charger that provides 25 miles of range per one hour of charge time.  That is an upfront expense that has to be included as well.

    Bolt is still will be cheaper then Focus but not by that much realistically.

    Edited by ykX
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    ccap41

    Good information dfelt!

    Couple small things.. gas in my area is ~$0.20 cheaper. I paid $2.46/gallon last night and my average over the course of 7000 miles of driving has been 32.X mpg. I understand one can only realistically compare based on ratings but between those two things it tightens the gap some. 

    All of this is also for a car that MSRP'd at 24k vs 37k(30k if you qualify for all of the fed tax credits. Which, I don't think I would qualify for all $7500).

    Changing to 32mpg(I'll round down) and $2.50/gal

    12,000/32 = 375 gallons x 2.50 = 937.50

    $937 is nowhere near $162.86 but I'd have to own that car for... 

    I'd save ~$774 a year owning the Bolt. 

    6000/774 = 7.75 years. Plus, the additional cost of adding a charger to the home of(I might be off because I don't remember at this point) about $1000 to have it wired and the charger itself/ 

    7000/774 = 9.04 years. It might be more economical but it is not saving me money, yet. 

    Even at your $893 savings(1056 - 163) it would take me 7000/893 = 7.83 years to pay itself off.

    For some who puts more miles on their vehicle or has steeper fuel prices to swing that payoff down to more like 5 years, TOTALLY worth it. Like yourself, who'd be replacing something getting less than 20mpg. That's also a huge factor. If I still had my Escape the number of years for payoff would come down drastically. 

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    G. David Felt
    1 hour ago, ykX said:

    @dfelt Actual electrical rates including taxes will be around $0.10 - $0.12 per kWh.

    Bolt on regular power outlet charges about 4 miles of range per one hour, so 10 hours of charge will only provide 40 miles of range, 12 hours - 48 miles.  So realistically you need fast charger that provides 25 miles of range per one hour of charge time.  That is an upfront expense that has to be included as well.

    Bolt is still will be cheaper then Focus but not by that much realistically.

    Yet saving you trips to the local gas station and the ease of coming home, plugging in and enjoying your evening, then unplug in the morning, this is a change in habit from ICE auto's but also a nice change of not having to run out to fill up when you realize your day tomorrow just got longer in driving around due to some needed appointments or errands to do.

    In regards to the tax thing, the prices I quote is off their web sites that says it includes local and state taxes. Same here in Washington, the figure quoted per kWh is with all taxes.

    If you are seeing that big of a jump from 6 to 10 or more cents per kWh then you are over taxed and that is crazy. I will admit, I have seen some crazy stupid kWh rates on the east coast.

    Big difference is when you compare the bolt cost to a compact CUV and the savings get even bigger.

    Convenience of not having to run out, touch dirty pump handles and stand in the cold compared to coming home plugging in and enjoying your evening is a big win for me and the wife.

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    G. David Felt

    @ccap41

    Yes not knowing the local area, I compared it to the online average gas price for the area but I understand locally you can find cheaper gas.

    So I know every state is different but it is worth looking into and finding out if you get any type of sales tax exemption for buying an EV over ICE. Here in Washington State you pay no sales tax on an EV auto. The Local power company will put in a 220V level 2 charger, the fastest allowed at any residential home in the US for only the installation cost and they will make it a simple 12 month interest free payment plan.

    I would expect you to get the full $7,500 write off as GM has not hit the point yet where they have to start reducing the federal tax credit yet.

    Here is the current list of all federal rebates for EV's and Hybrids:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

    Here is the site where you can click on a state and it shows you the available incentives for Hybrid and EV auto's:

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/state-electric-vehicle-incentives-state-chart.aspx

    Very Cool all residents of IL are allowed to apply for and finance all PEV auto's at .5% 60 month loan. Other info there too.

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    ccap41

    I would argue that plugging your car in every night and un plugging it every morning isn't saving you any more time in your week than going to the gas station. I fill up about every 10 days.. at 5-8 minutes.. It's about a wash with one's own time. Granted, I do understand one is at your home and one it not but overall time spent is about the same for unraveling a chord and raveling it back up. 

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    ccap41
    5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/state-electric-vehicle-incentives-state-chart.aspx

    Very Cool all residents of IL are allowed to apply for and finance all PEV auto's at .5% 60 month loan. Other info there too.

    That's a very cool link and I think this one will be a huge leap for EVs. 

    "Highway EVSE Installation Requirements: The Illinois Department of Transportation must install at least one EVSE at each interstate highway rest area where electrical service will reasonably permit by Jan. 1, 2016, or as soon as possible thereafter. "

    Just across the river in Missouri: 

    "Alternative Fueling Infrastructure Tax Credit: Between Jan. 1, 2015 and Jan. 1, 2018, S.B. 729 (2014) provides an income tax credit for the cost of installing a qualified alternative fueling station. The credit provides up to $1,500 for a residential applicant" 

     

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    ykX

    @dfelt

    I live in NJ so our electric rates indeed higher but on the other hand I don't have to pump my own gas :)

    In any case I am all for electrical vehicles, especially considering I am an electrical engineer.  However, current battery technology make them still not completely ready for widespread use IMO.

    I think in 5, maybe 10 years max we should see a real breakthrough in battery technology which will really make EVs take over.

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    G. David Felt
    32 minutes ago, ykX said:

    @dfelt

    I live in NJ so our electric rates indeed higher but on the other hand I don't have to pump my own gas :)

    In any case I am all for electrical vehicles, especially considering I am an electrical engineer.  However, current battery technology make them still not completely ready for widespread use IMO.

    I think in 5, maybe 10 years max we should see a real breakthrough in battery technology which will really make EVs take over.

    I cut that time in Half as I truly think Batteries are hitting on Moores Law and we already have amazing tech now, just look at EGO electric devices for the yard. 

    https://egopowerplus.com/

    EGO Mower, Blower and weed wacker are just awesome. I own them all and I love the AI monitoring of the battery to extend the Lio Life. I think this is what all EV auto's will do.

    FYI, worked for a year and half in Princeton. Like Oregon the only two places left where they consider auto owners too stupid to pump their own gas. I found way to many idiots working the pumps with splashing gas on my auto to smacking it with the pump and scratching. 

    Prefer to pump myself and be responsible for my own actions in that regards.

    Glad you love not having to pump gas.

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    ykX
    23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I cut that time in Half as I truly think Batteries are hitting on Moores Law and we already have amazing tech now, just look at EGO electric devices for the yard. 

    https://egopowerplus.com/

    EGO Mower, Blower and weed wacker are just awesome. I own them all and I love the AI monitoring of the battery to extend the Lio Life. I think this is what all EV auto's will do.

    FYI, worked for a year and half in Princeton. Like Oregon the only two places left where they consider auto owners too stupid to pump their own gas. I found way to many idiots working the pumps with splashing gas on my auto to smacking it with the pump and scratching. 

    Prefer to pump myself and be responsible for my own actions in that regards.

    Glad you love not having to pump gas.

    EGO products use standard Lithium Ion batteries, nothing groundbreaking about them.  I recommended the mower to my friend and he is pretty happy with it so far.

    Batteries need a completely new technology that currently exists, and a lot of universities and companies are working on it currently, some with pretty promising results.  However, it will take time until they become commercially available.

     

    And I didn't say I love not having to pump my gas, just that I don't have to.  Though, occasionally when there is a particularly nasty weather, I am happy I don't have to pump myself :)

    Edited by ykX
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    ccap41
    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    EGO Mower, Blower and weed wacker are just awesome. I own them all and I love the AI monitoring of the battery to extend the Lio Life. I think this is what all EV auto's will do.

    Not trying to sound like a dick but I'm lad you put your money where your mouth is. 

    I'll likely seriously consider an electric weed wacker but my lawn is too large for an electric push mower. 

    This will be the EV lawn mower I'd be investing in... http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-lawn-mowers/

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    ccap41
    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    I found way to many idiots working the pumps with splashing gas on my auto to smacking it with the pump and scratching. 

    That would piss me off so much. 

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    G. David Felt
    25 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Not trying to sound like a dick but I'm lad you put your money where your mouth is. 

    I'll likely seriously consider an electric weed wacker but my lawn is too large for an electric push mower. 

    This will be the EV lawn mower I'd be investing in... http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-lawn-mowers/

    I have a total of 1 acre to mow. I love to work out but still I bought the EGO Mower with the self driving wheels to I just direct it and get my steps in. :P Gotta keep the wife happy with a fit me.

    Gotta Say that Robotic Mower is very COOL! :D

    4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    That would piss me off so much. 

    Yup, I am a bit OCD about how clean my auto's are and I like them show room new shiney even with hundred of thousands of miles on them. :)

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    ccap41
    19 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I have a total of 1 acre to mow. I love to work out but still I bought the EGO Mower with the self driving wheels to I just direct it and get my steps in. :P Gotta keep the wife happy with a fit me.

    Gotta Say that Robotic Mower is very COOL!

    Ohhhhh definitely! It really is a good workout even with them being self propelled. Just get out, throw some headphones in, and just get some alone time in cutting the grass. That's why I don't mind cutting the grass. I just get a little time to myself where nobody bothers me and I ignore my phone going off. 

     

    20 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Yup, I am a bit OCD about how clean my auto's are and I like them show room new shiney even with hundred of thousands of miles on them. :)

    Absolutely! I know my car gets dirty but I don't like it when it's somebody else's carelessness. When it's my fault, that's fine. When I let it get into somebody else's hands and they get it dirty... that's a gear grinder. 

    Oh and that robotic Husqvarna lawn mower is awesome. Even the price isn't that bad when a quality rider will cost 2-3k anyway. For what I would want to cut my grass it would cost roughly the same for the robotic mower to do it for me AND it'd be electric. I'd have to look up how much it would cost to put up the parameter boundary to see if it's really equivalent or not. 

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    oldshurst442

    So @ocnblu

    You think that induction motors are NOT tough motors capable of repeated drag racing?

    You think that induction motors are less capable?

    And you think that I shouldnt express my displeasure over such stupid thought processes, even though in high school all over the world, students learn about Nicolas' little secret and in this forum, we have grown adults spewing stupidity?

    So...you would rather I accept such idiocy and lunacy and not say a word and just let you folk continue to spew such uneducated drivel?

    I gotcha!

    With that down vote...I understand where your intellect resides!

     

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    Drew Dowdell

    Induction motors are every bit as capable as internal combustion and power some of the fastest land based vehicles on the planet for millions of miles of travel at 180 miles an hour.

    ICE4_Front.jpg

     

     

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    oldshurst442
    On 9/28/2017 at 1:38 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

    I mean really... must every debate on EV's be reduced to strawman arguments?  Are we really arguing over supercharger/DCFC locations relative to drag strips now as a knock against EVs? We're talking a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of EV drivers that will ever do such driving.

     

    On 9/28/2017 at 2:46 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

    I understand the "why", I'm just venting the frustration that every time EV's come up there is some obscure reason they'd never work large scale because (insert highly specific and uncommon occurrence here). 

     

    @ocnblu

     

    DREW explained for me by explaining it for himself why I behaved the way I did!

    Just read what Drew said...then go back and read what I said!

    Ya know...

    You dont have to like EVs...NOBODY is telling you to like EVs...

    You dont have to ACCEPT EVs either...NOBODY is telling you to accept them or buy them or ride in them or look at them...

    But at least grow the phoque up...

    Ya know...

    admitting to their advantages over ICE is NOT admittance of you liking or accepting them!

    Ya know!

    You sound even dumber than you really are when you try to spew and exaggerate the lies you wanna believe about EVs...

    No amount of downvotes on my posts will change REALITY!!! So downvote away...Ill continue to be aggressive this way in sticking it you!!!

    Call it man-o-pause...call it me getting my panties in a knot...and downvote this post away!

    quodque initium novum alio initio finito evenit

     

     

     

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    ocnblu
    10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

     

    @ocnblu

     

    DREW explained for me by explaining it for himself why I behaved the way I did!

    Just read what Drew said...then go back and read what I said!

    Ya know...

    You dont have to like EVs...NOBODY is telling you to like EVs...

    You dont have to ACCEPT EVs either...NOBODY is telling you to accept them or buy them or ride in them or look at them...

    But at least grow the phoque up...

    Ya know...

    admitting to their advantages over ICE is NOT admittance of you liking or accepting them!

    Ya know!

    You sound even dumber than you really are when you try to spew and exaggerate the lies you wanna believe about EVs...

    No amount of downvotes on my posts will change REALITY!!! So downvote away...Ill continue to be aggressive this way in sticking it you!!!

    Call it man-o-pause...call it me getting my panties in a knot...and downvote this post away!

    quodque initium novum alio initio finito evenit

     

     

     

    Hmm... now I get it.  You enjoy pain.  So I will deny you the pain of a downvote from now on.  But wait... you might like the pain of not receiving your deserved downvote and that would defeat the whole purpose, for me, which is to please your twisted need for pain.  So now I am completely frozen in place, not knowing which way to turn.  SEE WHAT YOU DO TO ME?

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      MOU means that these companies have signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" to explore the participation, involvement and synergy sharing in relation to the business integration through a joint holding company. Back in August 1st, 2024 Nissan and Honda created a Joint Holding Company for the commencement of a strategic partnership focused on intelligence and electrification. This was to start the consideration towards integration of the two companies. Mitsubishi Motors has now signed onto this MOU to explore the possibility of achieving synergies at an increased level through business participation or integration. In basic terms, the three companies have agreed to join forces in sharing costs to move forward with EV platform R&D while they also look at the ICE "Internal Combustion Engine" gas side of having shared platforms to reduce costs and hopefully save the three auto companies by keeping them alive.  While Nissan and Honda have agreed to move forward in this integration of the two auto companies, Mitsubishi Motors will make a final decision by the end of January 2025 about possibly joining in with the integration of Mitsubishi Motors into this joint 3 auto company venture. Nissan and Honda have already agreed to a full SDV or Software-defined vehicles program moving forward that will allow them to have a solid crucial collaboration of intelligence and electrification for future products. Both companies have stated that the acceleration of technology and the rapid change of the auto industry will allow these two companies to maintain global competitiveness and deliver more attractive products and services for customers worldwide. Nissan global mobility product line merged with Honda four-wheel-vehicles, motor cycles and power products can allow both companies to become more attractive to shareholders and innovation of products to sell to customers worldwide according to the CEOs of both companies. Nissan and Honda have stated the following: Nissan and Honda aim to become a world-class mobility company with sales revenue exceeding 30 trillion yen ($190 Billion U.S. Dollars) and operating profit of more than 3 trillion yen ($19 billion U.S. Dollars). The expected synergies from the business integration at this time are: 1. Scale advantages by standardizing vehicle platforms By standardizing the vehicle platforms of both companies across various product segments, the companies expect to create stronger products, reduce costs, enhance development efficiencies, and improve investment efficiencies through standardized production processes. The integration is projected to increase sales and operational volumes, allowing the companies to reduce development costs per vehicle, including for future digital services, while maximizing profits. By accelerating the mutual complementation of their global vehicle offerings - including ICE, HEV, PHEV, and EV models - Nissan and Honda will be better positioned to meet diverse customer needs around the world and deliver optimal products, leading to improved customer satisfaction. 2. Enhancement of development capabilities and cost synergies through the integration of R&D functions In accordance with the MOU to deepen strategic partnership and the joint research agreement on fundamental technologies dated August 1, the two companies have started joint research in fundamental technologies in the area of vehicle platforms for next-generation software-defined vehicles (SDVs), which is the cornerstone of the field of intelligence. After the business integration, both companies will encompass more integrated collaboration across all R&D functions, including fundamental research and vehicle application technology research. This approach is expected to enable both companies to efficiently and swiftly enhance their technological expertise, achieving both improvements in development capabilities and reductions in development costs through the integration of overlapping functions.   3. Optimizing manufacturing systems and facilities The companies anticipate that optimizing their manufacturing plants and energy service facilities, combined with improved collaboration through the shared use of production lines, will result in a substantial improvement in capacity utilization leading to a decrease in fixed costs.   4. Strengthening competitive advantages across the supply chain through the integration of purchasing functions To fully leverage the synergies from optimizing development and production capacity, both companies intend to boost their competitiveness by improving and streamlining purchasing operations and source common parts from the same the supply chain and in collaboration with business partners.   5. Realizing cost synergies through operational efficiency improvements The companies expect that the integration of systems and back-office operations, along with the upgrade and standardization of operational processes, will drive significant cost reductions.   6. Acquisition of scale advantages through integration in sales finance functions By integrating relevant areas of sales finance functions of both companies and expanding the scale of operations, the companies aim to provide a range of mobility solutions, including new financial services throughout the vehicle lifecycle, to customers of both organizations.   7. Establishment of a talent foundation for intelligence and electrification The human resources of the companies are an invaluable asset, and establishing a strong human resource foundation is crucial for the transformation that will come with the business integration. After the integration, increased employee exchanges and technical collaboration between the companies are expected to promote further skill development. Moreover, by leveraging each company's access to talent markets, attracting exceptional talent will become more attainable. Method of business integration and stock listing Nissan and Honda, with the result of the consideration, plan to establish, through a joint share transfer, a joint holding company that will be the parent company of both companies. This will be subject to approval at each company's general meeting of shareholders and obtaining necessary approvals from relevant authorities for this business integration, based on the premise that Nissan's turnaround*1 actions are steadily executed. Both Nissan and Honda will be fully owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company*2. Additionally, the companies plan to continue coexisting and developing the brands held by Honda and Nissan equally. Shares of the newly established joint holding company under consideration are planned to be newly listed (technical listing) on the Prime Market of the Tokyo Stock Exchange (“TSE”). The listing is scheduled for August 2026. With the listing of the joint holding company, both Nissan and Honda will become wholly owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company and will be scheduled to be delisted from the TSE. However, shareholders of both companies will continue to be able to trade shares of the joint holding company issued during this share transfer on the TSE. The listing date of the joint holding company and the delisting date of both Nissan and Honda will be determined in accordance with the regulations of the TSE. Regarding the organizational structure of the joint holding company, and both companies which will become wholly-owned subsidiaries of the joint holding company after the business integration, the optimal structure for realizing synergies, including the integration of R&D functions, purchasing functions, and manufacturing functions, will be discussed and considered within the integration preparatory committee, with the aim of establishing an organizational structure that enables efficient and highly competitive business operations after the business integration. The CEO's of all three companies had the following to say: Marking the announcement, Nissan Director, President, CEO and Representative Executive Officer Makoto Uchida said: “Honda and Nissan have begun considering a business integration, and will study the creation of significant synergies between the two companies in a wide range of fields. It is significant that Nissan's partner, Mitsubishi Motors, is also involved in these discussions. We anticipate that if this integration comes to fruition, we will be able to deliver even greater value to a wider customer base.“ Honda Director and Representative Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe said: "At this time of change in the automobile industry, which is said to occur once every 100 years, we hope that Mitsubishi Motors' participation in the business integration discussions of Nissan and Honda will lead to further social change, and that we will be able to become a leading company in creating new value in mobility through business integration. Nissan and Honda will start the discussion from today onwards with an aim to clarify the possibility of business integration by around the end of January in line with the consideration of Mitsubishi Motors." Comment from Mitsubishi Motors Director, Representative Executive Officer, and President and CEO Takao Kato said: “In an era of change in the automotive industry, the study between Nissan and Honda about a business integration will accelerate synergy maximization effects, bringing high value also to the collaborative businesses with Mitsubishi Motors. In order to realize synergies and to make the best use of each company's strengths, we will also study the best form of cooperation.” Upon looking at the press releases, it makes total sense that these companies would look to merge as each company is having a challanging time. Nissan globally has seen a 33.7% reduction in sales taking the estimated 2024 market share to 5.2%.  Honda globally has seen a 9% reduction over all with a 32% reduction in the asian rim leaving them with a 2024 estimated 5.4% market share. Mitsubishi Motors globally has seen a reduction year over year of a 10.7% drop leaving them with a 2024 estimated market share of 4.6%. All three auto companies lag the industry in technology connected auto's, feature / functions and especially EVs. All three companies have seen their profits turn into negative earnings for their respective companies leaving them with no real ability to perform R&D in building EVs to compete in China or the U.S. let alone Europe that has mandates in place for the end of ICE by 2035. End result is it looks like for these companies to survive, merging into one company that shares platforms and technology especially in the software and battery sectors will be the only way to move forward. View full article
    • oldshurst442
      Beautiful Cars Appreciation Thread

      By oldshurst442 · Posted

    • trinacriabob
      Beautiful Cars Appreciation Thread

      By trinacriabob · Posted

      I think I'm dreaming ... this vehicle would be the oldest of my handful of favorite "blast from the past" cars. A Cutlass Salon coupe in perfect condition, the first year I liked the colonnade Cutlass (and it's last year, of 3, with round headlamps in the colonnade), those huge bucket seats, and, oddly, A/C is there, but with manual windows.  It featured the new but not as popular 260 (4.3L) V8.  It also featured the light enamel blue they didn't repeat.  If the exhaust system is tight, this car will be whisper quiet. 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (Numbers Matching Drivetrain) for sale: photos, technical specifications, description See anything odd?  Come on.  Quick. . . . It has Buick rally wheels instead of Oldsmobile rally wheels. * sigh ... I wonder what time frame this ad goes back to *

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