Average Age of Cars in the U.S. Climbs Again

I think at this point, many people who can work from home are deciding to hold off on buying ICE auto's awaiting the much lower maintenance and ease of charging from home selection of EVs that are coming.

EV's ROCK!

With work from home and self quarantining, I've managed to put less than 100 miles on my Jeep in the last 6 months.  I assume the next 6 months will be the same.

31 minutes ago, David said:

I think at this point, many people who can work from home are deciding to hold off on buying ICE auto's awaiting the much lower maintenance and ease of charging from home selection of EVs that are coming.

EV's ROCK!

I think it has nothing to do with EVs.

People who work from home don't put as many miles on their cars, so less reason to upgrade for something newer.  Secondary, a lot of people are out of a work now, so they definitely will hold on to whatever they got and will not purchase anything newer.

It may take another two or three years for NEW car sales to actually recover.  Then again, used car bargains are still available.  In general, few people actually need to buy a replacement vehicle these days.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

With work from home and self quarantining, I've managed to put less than 100 miles on my Jeep in the last 6 months.  I assume the next 6 months will be the same.

I can totally understand this, I have put on less than 400 miles in the first 6 months on the Escalade and only just over 800 on the SS. That gets a bit more as I shop for the senior parents and drop their groceries off at the door so out once a week for shopping, over to the other households and then home.

3 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

It may take another two or three years for NEW car sales to actually recover.  Then again, used car bargains are still available.  In general, few people actually need to buy a replacement vehicle these days.

I think the Global Pandemic will have a much bigger affect on auto sales globally as more and more companies figure out how to still be successful with a work force working from home. As such, I think we will see people hold off like you said globally for the next few years and this will also affect used auto sales.

Just looking at Hertz bankruptcy and how hard it has been as their sales of auto's to reduce the size of their auto fleet has not moved well.

Bigger picture is also evident in mass transit. Lite rail construction here is being pushed out over a longer time period, new bus purchases are being delayed. The mass transit support groups are sending out emails saying mass transit is threatened and needs more tax dollars from the public or else you will not have a way to get around easily without an auto.

Weird, but in places like Seattle where you have all the tech workers working from home, I see no reason to spend billions on mass transit that will get little use now or in the future as companies that can, will move away from office work to remote employment.

I then see EV sales picking up as those auto's come out with low maintenance, fuel at home, the benefits for a work from home workforce really do change the auto industry and I would not be surprised to never see auto sales hit the record they did in 2018 since 2019 was a reduction compared to 2018 if memory serves me correct.

I do think that mass transit will still be useful since not all jobs can be work from home.  At the same time, ridership will most likely stay down for a while.  Same with new car sales.

With work from home I might drive my car twice a week so what is the point of buying a a new car that will sit for all but maybe 2 hours a week?

Car prices are also going up and up, offering 7 years loans let automakers get away with that for a while but I don’t think we are going to see 9-10 year new car loans, so monthly payments will just keep rising.  And at a time when unemployment is rising.  
 

I am surprised car sales have done as well as they have, I wouldn’t be surprised by a 10-12 million SAAR in 2021.

I was sitting on an average age of almost 15 years on mine.... ?  But after so many years, we have a 19 and a 20 to go with my 06 and 04. 

But with little driving going on now- I might keep both of our leases for the long run.....

First two weeks of Wolf's shutdown, we were on a split schedule, each "team" working 3 days/week, but that soon changed, been back working 5 days as normal since then. 

This "working from home" debacle has been a bit of a disaster for my industry simply due to the fact that dealing with insurance companies has been haphazard at best.  They don't call back, payments have been in the wrong amounts, sent to the wrong place, the employees, we can tell, are not paying attention to business while The Price Is Right or Days Of Our Lives is on as they work from their living rooms.  I heard a screeching in the background as I was talking to an insurance rep the other day, I asked him if he was working from home, he said "yes".  Then I asked him if he has parakeets or parrots, he said "those are my KIDS".  Pure BS.

Cars are lasting longer because ppl have been demanding higher quality vehicles.  Ppl also have not been enticed by the new stuff.  A vehicle comes out and the design remains static for like 6 years at a time... where is the incentive to buy a new vehicle that looks the same as the old one?

And the notion that cash strapped Americans are waiting for ridiculous toy EVs at twice the price of their reliable ICE vehicles is PURE LUNACY.

The above post is not downvote worthy.  But it aint upvote worthy either. Its somewhere in between for me.

Ill give you my opinion sentence by sentence, if you want me to....

Tough noogies...you are getting it anyway.  

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

This "working from home" debacle has been a bit of a disaster for my industry simply due to the fact that dealing with insurance companies has been haphazard at best.  They don't call back, payments have been in the wrong amounts, sent to the wrong place, the employees, we can tell, are not paying attention to business while The Price Is Right or Days Of Our Lives is on as they work from their living rooms. 

True.  Many folk dont have good work ethic.  This is what I learned over the years from  my experience with owning and running a restaurant and managing people.  The good thing thing about that though, is that most of my employees are late teens and young adults. I get to mold them into good employees since many of them working at my restaurant is their first job.  Also, what I learned that, with my partner and I, is that at our restaurant at least, there are NO bad employees, just bad management.  Therefore, if we have problems with 1 or 2 employees not doing their duties properly, is that its our fault for not showing them what we want from from properly in the first place. Corrective measures HAVE to be in place and proper corrective action MUST be taken in order to prevent any further bad habits and wrong work ethic from these employees.  Usually, my partner and I, we succeed in maintaining an awesome working environment with all of our employees respecting their workplace, their colleagues and our clientele.  

That aside, I have also noticed though, that folk that have poor working habits IN a work environment will have POOR working habits working from home.  ESPECIALLY working from home.   I am just speculating here.  But if an employee takes pride in his/her work and takes his/her job seriously and respects his/her job, in a work environment, will probably reciprocate that working from home.   Again, just pure speculation here.  

Im also speculating here, but insurance companies, insurance salesmen and reps, are all about the $$$.  The industry itself doesnt really care too much about the little guy anyway.  Ive dealt with insurance companies and sales reps and adjustment pricks for my parents' home, my home, my car,  my restaurant (2 restaurants at one time) and Ive had good and honest and awesome representation on occasion, but overall, HORRIBLE...HORRIBLE service.  I phoquing cringe when I have to make an insurance call...   Like buying a phoquing car at a dealership type cringe.  I HATE the experience. 

In other words, what you experienced from that guy  that he was working from home, you would have had a similar shyte experience from him if he was working in his work office...   (putting you on hold several times, repeating to him MULTIPLE times what it is YOU need to communicate to him because he is not quite getting the "story" right...etc...) 

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

They don't call back, payments have been in the wrong amounts, sent to the wrong place, the employees, we can tell, are not paying attention

Not calling back.   Standard insurance practice?   Ive hadnt experienced that personally, I know plenty of folk who have though in the past.

Wrong amounts must be a working from home thing.  But...I personally never experienced having to wait for insurance money, I know plenty of people who have waited an eternity...   I understand that insurance companies have to make their due diligence  for fraud purposes...but, sometimes it seems like they deliberately stall to pay out.  (although the stories I hear from my friends might not be 100% truthful either... I understand that fully) 

Employees not caring.  Standard practice for employees not respecting their workplace. Happens. Especially in the insurance business...      THIS, I have experienced MANY MANY times.  The end results were painless, but the voyage to get there was cringe.  Full on cringe.   I have mastered the communication needed to cut to the chase when I need to file a claim.  

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Ppl also have not been enticed by the new stuff.

16- 17 million cars sold per year...every year...says otherwise.   I googled.  221.7 million licensed drivers in the USA. 

I googled.  24 to 36 months is the avg lease term and 70 months is the avg loan term for new cars in the USA.

I googled, for the last 3 years, 30% of the new cars are leased.  About 5 million cars in a 17 million cars per year sold cycle. 

That leaves 12 million cars sold new.  Which would last the owner at least 70 months...  6 years...  

5 times 3 for the year leases equals 15 million units... 

But...16-17 million units are sold each and every year since 2012...    Ill do 16 million units times 7 years would make  112 million cars sold or leased in the US since 2012...  

7 years since 2012.  That is two lease cycles on avg.  That would be 30 million units since 2012.   12 million cars sold new times 7 years since 2012 equals to 84 million units.   (I didnt include the 6 million units sold in 2020 so far)  

30 million leased PLUS the  84 million units sold equals to 114 units sold since 2012.   The math works both ways...   112 to 114 million cars any which way you slice it...

There are 221 million licensed drivers in the US.  About half of those licensed drivers have at leased bought or leased a new car since 2012....   In 7 years.  Half of these people have leased or bought new AT LEAST once... 

Dont forget. That every 3 years, a more or less new car, is thrown into the used car market. EVERY YEAR.  221 million licensed drivers and at least half of them, delve into the used car market.  BUT...the other half buy or lease new...

To say that people are NOT enticed simply doesnt make any sense...  I said earlier...that there are many many OLDER OLDER cars being held unto in the warmer, weather friendlier areas of the USA.  But to say that people are NOT enticed to buy new...is simply bupkis...  

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

A vehicle comes out and the design remains static for like 6 years at a time... where is the incentive to buy a new vehicle that looks the same as the old one?

Been like that since the last 45 years. Im 47,  and I dont remember seeing the planned obsolescence that was in the 1950s/1960s.  So...closer to 50 years.  Half a phoquing century.  A 1970 Bel Air/Impala looked the same, more or less as a 1976.  The 1977 version lasted until 1990 or 1991.  The Celebrity was introduced in 1982 and stopped in 1989.  7 years with minor headlight and rear taillight adjustments.    The other platform playmates had even LESS and even more minor refreshes. Not to mention they kinda all looked the same.  

The F-Body in the 1970s had minor changes too.  The 1980s.  The 1990s.   

The H Body FWD cars in 1986 lasted until 1991.  5 years with literally just headlight exterior changes.  They looked the same though.  3 different cars from 3 different brands, but all looked the same from one another... 

Dont get me started with the J platform.  OK...the 1988 Z24 coupe and Sunbird GT coupe had a very radical and cool styling. But the 4 doors...  ALL OF THEM...dont get me started.

The G Body.  From 1980 to 1988....    And Im just hovering in the 1980s.   The 1970s was a tad better, but I did mention a few cars that stayed the same.  And ONLY from GM...   Ford, Chrysler, Toyoter, Honda... If I get picky with them, you will see that they too, share the same stagnant styling woos as with GM.   Common practice.  Since 1970.  

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

And the notion that cash strapped Americans are waiting for ridiculous toy EVs at twice the price of their reliable ICE vehicles is PURE LUNACY.

Hard to argue with that.   The twice the price of ICE part.  And...well...yeah...  2021 will be a bad bad...bad year economically for many on this planet. NOT just the US. 

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

First two weeks of Wolf's shutdown, we were on a split schedule, each "team" working 3 days/week, but that soon changed, been back working 5 days as normal since then. 

This "working from home" debacle has been a bit of a disaster for my industry simply due to the fact that dealing with insurance companies has been haphazard at best.  They don't call back, payments have been in the wrong amounts, sent to the wrong place, the employees, we can tell, are not paying attention to business while The Price Is Right or Days Of Our Lives is on as they work from their living rooms.  I heard a screeching in the background as I was talking to an insurance rep the other day, I asked him if he was working from home, he said "yes".  Then I asked him if he has parakeets or parrots, he said "those are my KIDS".  Pure BS.

Cars are lasting longer because ppl have been demanding higher quality vehicles.  Ppl also have not been enticed by the new stuff.  A vehicle comes out and the design remains static for like 6 years at a time... where is the incentive to buy a new vehicle that looks the same as the old one?

And the notion that cash strapped Americans are waiting for ridiculous toy EVs at twice the price of their reliable ICE vehicles is PURE LUNACY.

“Reliable ICE vehicles”

Hello? Ocnblu? Yeah, we have Fiat on line one.

And F it! Just tell your work that you all want to go back to the office. That way, when half of your office and the office of your clients, gets COVID, you can come back on here and bitch about how unproductive folks there are and how it sucks to work short handed. 

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Hello? Ocnblu? Yeah, we have Fiat on line one.

What does FIAT want?  They owe me nothing because I did not have one warranty issue with my first-year 2017 Jeep Compass, I put around 37k miles on it in the short time I had it and for what it was, it served me very well.  So your clamor on "FIAT" means nothing to me.

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And F it! Just tell your work that you all want to go back to the office. That way, when half of your office and the office of your clients, gets COVID, you can come back on here and bitch about how unproductive folks there are and how it sucks to work short handed. 

Hey stop acting like a dummy.  I told you in the very same typical high quality post that I'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.  I cannot write estimates FROM HOME, bigshot.  Lord have mercy, talk about spoon feeding the illiterates.

On 7/30/2020 at 4:38 AM, ocnblu said:

First two weeks of Wolf's shutdown, we were on a split schedule, each "team" working 3 days/week, but that soon changed, been back working 5 days as normal since then. 

This "working from home" debacle has been a bit of a disaster for my industry simply due to the fact that dealing with insurance companies has been haphazard at best.  They don't call back, payments have been in the wrong amounts, sent to the wrong place, the employees, we can tell, are not paying attention to business while The Price Is Right or Days Of Our Lives is on as they work from their living rooms.  I heard a screeching in the background as I was talking to an insurance rep the other day, I asked him if he was working from home, he said "yes".  Then I asked him if he has parakeets or parrots, he said "those are my KIDS".  Pure BS.

Cars are lasting longer because ppl have been demanding higher quality vehicles.  Ppl also have not been enticed by the new stuff.  A vehicle comes out and the design remains static for like 6 years at a time... where is the incentive to buy a new vehicle that looks the same as the old one?

And the notion that cash strapped Americans are waiting for ridiculous toy EVs at twice the price of their reliable ICE vehicles is PURE LUNACY.

You know what is crazy right now.  Chevy dealers hardly have inventory, except for all those new 2021 3 cylinder trailblazers from NotMuhrica (funny how that works, huh).

And they are selling like crazy, i see a bunch of them out on the roads ALREADY.

with those 1.2 and 1.3 3 cylinder motors and all.   I'm pretty sure the salesman never says it a 3 cylinder, or that its a 1.2 or 1.3.  They just tell the customer its 'turbocharged' and all of sudden they believe its fast.  Turbo = racing ya know!!!  Who cares about the engine, tell me how i can play with my phone in the car!!!!

A coworker who loves his IMpreza Crosstrek manual, sounds like his wife is angling him to get rid of the small ride and stick....he was asking me about all the compact SUV's, including the Equinox.  He would want a 2.0, i told him get that 2.0 before the cancel culture cancels it in 2021.  We are conditioned to believe a 1.5 is a normal size motor, and pushing down to 3 cylinder 1.2 and 1.3,  Now, not I, I would want the Blazer with 3.6.  My ideal for next car is a twin turbo 6.  Will I find one, and one that I can afford?  Probably not, unless i can resolve the internal battle of CT5 C pillar or not....

Point being, maybe once they have beaten us all down into thinking a 1.3 litre subcompact CUV is luxury...then they will flip the switch and roll out the mass charging network and cheap EV's.....  By that point a 10 second 0-60 on that 3 cylinder won't seem so desirable vs an EV with some torque.  Maybe by then the Bolts will be selling like hotcakes!!!!

I hope all these hot Cadillacs will be great used car buys in 7-10 years before the brand implodes due to 200,000 dollar weird looking and weirdly named EV's that almost no one will buy......

On 7/30/2020 at 5:37 PM, ocnblu said:

What does FIAT want?  They owe me nothing because I did not have one warranty issue with my first-year 2017 Jeep Compass, I put around 37k miles on it in the short time I had it and for what it was, it served me very well.  So your clamor on "FIAT" means nothing to me.

Hey stop acting like a dummy.  I told you in the very same typical high quality post that I'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.  I cannot write estimates FROM HOME, bigshot.  Lord have mercy, talk about spoon feeding the illiterates.

Wait, you mean

STELLANTIS   now

right?

LOL  (cue the male enhancement music)

8 hours ago, regfootball said:

You know what is crazy right now.  Chevy dealers hardly have inventory, except for all those new 2021 3 cylinder trailblazers from NotMuhrica (funny how that works, huh).

And they are selling like crazy, i see a bunch of them out on the roads ALREADY.

with those 1.2 and 1.3 3 cylinder motors and all.   I'm pretty sure the salesman never says it a 3 cylinder, or that its a 1.2 or 1.3.  They just tell the customer its 'turbocharged' and all of sudden they believe its fast.  Turbo = racing ya know!!!  Who cares about the engine, tell me how i can play with my phone in the car!!!!

A coworker who loves his IMpreza Crosstrek manual, sounds like his wife is angling him to get rid of the small ride and stick....he was asking me about all the compact SUV's, including the Equinox.  He would want a 2.0, i told him get that 2.0 before the cancel culture cancels it in 2021.  We are conditioned to believe a 1.5 is a normal size motor, and pushing down to 3 cylinder 1.2 and 1.3,  Now, not I, I would want the Blazer with 3.6.  My ideal for next car is a twin turbo 6.  Will I find one, and one that I can afford?  Probably not, unless i can resolve the internal battle of CT5 C pillar or not....

Point being, maybe once they have beaten us all down into thinking a 1.3 litre subcompact CUV is luxury...then they will flip the switch and roll out the mass charging network and cheap EV's.....  By that point a 10 second 0-60 on that 3 cylinder won't seem so desirable vs an EV with some torque.  Maybe by then the Bolts will be selling like hotcakes!!!!

I hope all these hot Cadillacs will be great used car buys in 7-10 years before the brand implodes due to 200,000 dollar weird looking and weirdly named EV's that almost no one will buy......

Interesting to see how people seem to think there are no lower priced EVs when there are. The big issue is that most people do not want the base EVs, they want the fully loaded all the bells and whistles and as such, we are not seeing those sell.

I agree that as the charging networks expand and prices come down, that we will see more adoption of the lower maintenance longer lasting EVs over the high maintenance ICE auto's.

I also agree with you that the whole push for ICE auto's with 3 banger motors is a joke. Turbo all they want, the life of those engines are going to be short.

I agree with reg in that ICE vehicles are getting short shrifted in development on purpose to force ppl into inferior, impractical EVs.  Barra, for example, has all but admitted this BS and is actually proud of it.  What folly.

Encore GX/Trailblazer should have had the 1.3t standard, and the 1.5t optional... or better yet, a NA 4 of larger displacement.

21 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I agree with reg in that ICE vehicles are getting short shrifted in development on purpose to force ppl into inferior, impractical EVs.  Barra, for example, has all but admitted this BS and is actually proud of it.  What folly.

Encore GX/Trailblazer should have had the 1.3t standard, and the 1.5t optional... or better yet, a NA 4 of larger displacement.

the Trailblazer and Encore GX should have the 1.5 litre motor and 9 speed auto spec that is currently in the Terrain.  Higher hp and the 9 speed compared to the Malibu.

I guarantee you those little mites would actually get the same real world or better mpg....not working as hard.

Reality is, a 3 cylinder has only 3 expensive pistons and 12 expensive valves and their operating parts, vs. 16.  Look at all the money saved on fuel injection also etc.  It's a scam to save money, that's why they do it.  Build it outside the US also, more and more.

If they can make the engine as smooth, 3 vs 4, i have no issues with that...but please bump the displacement to 1.5 and add some horsepower and more torque so its a good roadworthy vehicle.

When the newer design 2.0 is offered in the Equinox and Terrain, that automatic makes them worthy of consideration again.  The Malibu would benefit from the new 2.0 also.  Why they can't be low cost powertrain only options, shows you the restrictions and regulations getting in the way of offering products.

On 7/29/2020 at 2:56 PM, David said:

I think at this point, many people who can work from home are deciding to hold off on buying ICE auto's awaiting the much lower maintenance and ease of charging from home selection of EVs that are coming.

EV's ROCK!

Or we have so many people unemployed or under employed that they are trying to keep a 2003 Pontiac on the road. 

On 8/3/2020 at 6:33 PM, ocnblu said:

I agree with reg in that ICE vehicles are getting short shrifted in development on purpose to force ppl into inferior, impractical EVs.  Barra, for example, has all but admitted this BS and is actually proud of it.  What folly.

 

It would seem to be the case...

On 8/3/2020 at 8:38 AM, David said:

 

I also agree with you that the whole push for ICE auto's with 3 banger motors is a joke. Turbo all they want, the life of those engines are going to be short.

Very few new cars interest me and none with three bangers. 

On 7/29/2020 at 3:30 PM, ykX said:

I think it has nothing to do with EVs.

People who work from home don't put as many miles on their cars, so less reason to upgrade for something newer.  Secondary, a lot of people are out of a work now, so they definitely will hold on to whatever they got and will not purchase anything newer.

Yep, it may take us 5 years to recover from this mess, if we ever do. 

On 8/3/2020 at 12:32 AM, regfootball said:

You know what is crazy right now.  Chevy dealers hardly have inventory, except for all those new 2021 3 cylinder trailblazers from NotMuhrica (funny how that works, huh).

And they are selling like crazy, i see a bunch of them out on the roads ALREADY.

with those 1.2 and 1.3 3 cylinder motors and all.   I'm pretty sure the salesman never says it a 3 cylinder, or that its a 1.2 or 1.3.  They just tell the customer its 'turbocharged' and all of sudden they believe its fast.  Turbo = racing ya know!!!  Who cares about the engine, tell me how i can play with my phone in the car!!!!

A coworker who loves his IMpreza Crosstrek manual, sounds like his wife is angling him to get rid of the small ride and stick....he was asking me about all the compact SUV's, including the Equinox.  He would want a 2.0, i told him get that 2.0 before the cancel culture cancels it in 2021.  We are conditioned to believe a 1.5 is a normal size motor, and pushing down to 3 cylinder 1.2 and 1.3,  Now, not I, I would want the Blazer with 3.6.  My ideal for next car is a twin turbo 6.  Will I find one, and one that I can afford?  Probably not, unless i can resolve the internal battle of CT5 C pillar or not....

Point being, maybe once they have beaten us all down into thinking a 1.3 litre subcompact CUV is luxury...then they will flip the switch and roll out the mass charging network and cheap EV's.....  By that point a 10 second 0-60 on that 3 cylinder won't seem so desirable vs an EV with some torque.  Maybe by then the Bolts will be selling like hotcakes!!!!

I hope all these hot Cadillacs will be great used car buys in 7-10 years before the brand implodes due to 200,000 dollar weird looking and weirdly named EV's that almost no one will buy......

You are far too optomistic about the current automotive scene. Far too optomistic. 

I have a hard time considering a 6-cylinder (instead of 8), have only owned 2 out of 23 vehicles.

Jonsing for a new SIlverado/Sierra, and would go either with a 3.0L DuraMax 6 or a 5.3 V-8, despite the 2.7L T having the same HP rating as my 6.6L Duramax (tho it's down by 215 TRQ, it's also not pushing 6500 lbs).
From another conversation elsewhere; Chevy/GMC just aren't building hardly any 2.7L trucks anyway.

On 7/29/2020 at 2:56 PM, David said:

I think at this point, many people who can work from home are deciding to hold off on buying ICE auto's awaiting the much lower maintenance and ease of charging from home selection of EVs that are coming.

EV's ROCK!

I'm doubtful a still niche product like BEVs are causing people to hold off buying a new vehicle. 

EVs do Rock nonetheless. 

1 hour ago, carman21 said:

I'm doubtful a still niche product like BEVs are causing people to hold off buying a new vehicle. 

EVs do Rock nonetheless. 

Your right that in specific east coast and mid west areas they are not, but I do know many on the west coast are holding off awaiting the many various EVs that have been announced as these are the ones like myself that have no interest in Tesla. As such, I will keep doing everything to keep my ICE auto's going till I can replace them.

Just filled up with gas today as I had to run to Costco for my wives prescription and noticed I will turn over some time this month 170,000 in my 2008 Trailblazer SS AWD. Still looks good, but wow, did the time fly.

"I know of many in my area' = statistically utterly meaningless in a circa 15 million unit volume.

There are many vehicles in many areas

On 8/13/2020 at 5:23 PM, balthazar said:

"I know of many in my area' = statistically utterly meaningless in a circa 15 million unit volume.

Bingo!

Not only do you have people working from home, but have you seen the price of a new car lately? Right now lots of families are struggling just to put food on the table. And in Michigan (where I live) full-coverage insurance is almost as much as the car payment. I suspect that new car sales are going to continue to drop until the economy begins to recover.

1 hour ago, Gregory Lynn said:

Not only do you have people working from home, but have you seen the price of a new car lately? Right now lots of families are struggling just to put food on the table. And in Michigan (where I live) full-coverage insurance is almost as much as the car payment. I suspect that new car sales are going to continue to drop until the economy begins to recover.

I have to agree there.....even the base model prices are getting silly....

And I’ve noticed in MI that the insurance really did not get cheaper on July 1st either.......