Holden Ute Not Coming Due To High Tarrifs

An El Camino doesn't have any competition - there is simply nothing like it on the market.

It won't be crossed-shopped with standard trucks.

It is itself in the same way that a Corvette or Camaro is.

It has an identity beyond segment.

People who love them do so because they are El Caminos, not because they compare well to competitors - there are none.

This vehicle has instant recognizability which is something GM sorely lacks.

Like Corvette, it sells itself.

Sure, when and if it comes to a NA plant, having other variants might broaden its appeal. A crewcab, AWD, other drivetrain and fuel options, but that is all beside the point - at least for now. GM needs to let it be what it is, make it available here, and capitalize on a well-loved nameplate with a true-to-form modern offering. It just so happens that they have just such an offering in their back pocket.

It's past time that they used it.

And that sub-30k (with incentives) truck? That's a stripper no one really wants that will have about the same payload as the Ute, be less comfortable, have less power, and get worse mileage.

Some deal, that.

Prior to 1982 sales were very good but after 82 and with the gowth of the smaller trucks it dropped each and every year. Even then they were around a 20,000 average. Now with the many other vehicles and small SUV's it will have even more compitition.

Consider how big the "small" truck has gotten these days. There's definitely room for something smaller than a Colorado, Tacoma, or Frontier. The Ute/El Camino is perfect to fill that role.

I could stand behind creating Ute variants, even sending a couple to GMC and possibly even Cadillac.

Prior to 1982 sales were very good but after 82 and with the gowth of the smaller trucks it dropped each and every year. Even then they were around a 20,000 average. Now with the many other vehicles and small SUV's it will have even more compitition.

Consider how big the "small" truck has gotten these days. There's definitely room for something smaller than a Colorado, Tacoma, or Frontier. The Ute/El Camino is perfect to fill that role.

I could stand behind creating Ute variants, even sending a couple to GMC and possibly even Cadillac.

Yep, it would make a fine platform for a next gen Escalade - much more appropriate for Cadillac than the GMT underpinnings ever were.

The CNG Ute is already on sale in Oz.

No adaptation required.

An Aus CNG system probably wouldn't work in NA, though.

Why?

Would the fittings be compatible? Is the fuel compatible? Different countries, different markets..not to mention trying to get it certified by the EPA.

Actually ALL CNG is standardized by the CSA International Governing body which the US has joined and goes by. Now you do have two different standards in PSIG, Canada does CNG auto's at 3000 PSIG as well as fork lifts, scissor lifts, etc at 3000. The US goes with the more common and efficient 3600 PSIG which Europe and Australia also follows. The other rare PSIG is 4200 which is more or less used in storage for fast fill solutions but some odd ball semi truck companies use it also.

End result is you can take a 3000 PSIG fueling system and fuel a 3600 or 4200 PSI system, though you will not get a full load. 3600 can fuel itself and 4200 but not 3000 and of course the rare 4200 systems which no one that I know of is building any longer can fuel anything less than itself. The connections are all a universal size, but the pressure and internal match up is the difference. I have taken a generalized approach to explaining this to keep it easy to understand.

Currently Canada and the few other countries that run the lower PSIG are considering changing, but then they are also running into resistance as the existing folks who have already invested in the older tech are fighting to keep it the same.

Long term they will have to change as the industry is being consolidated by a very well financed investment group out of NY who is buying up all the CNG major players and building one global power house to supply all countries. They have standardized on 3600 along with all auto companies and industry companies major players like Hyster have all moved to building 3600 PSIG products, so they can hold it off for a little bit as 3000 is still being produced but by 2015 it will become a dead product as the globe standardizes on 3600 PSIG I believe.

Now for my Conspiracy Theory, I suspect the Oil Companies are behind this major Investment firm who has been buying up all the major CNG players on each continent and consolidating to build a universal standard that everyone is jumping on. With North America having the worlds largest Natural Gas Reserves, Canada, US and Mexico have the biggest to gain in the new world order as Oil supplies dwindle to nothing.

I would be very excited to have the Holden Ute-based Chevrolet El Camino available in the US market (though I'd personally prefer a GMC Sprint/Caballero version better). I would glady hold onto my '06 GMC Envoy to tool around in a brand new EC, from work commuting, evening errands, or weekend cruising. I'd definitely be considered part of the target market for this vehicle.

An El Camino doesn't have any competition - there is simply nothing like it on the market.

It won't be crossed-shopped with standard trucks.

It is itself in the same way that a Corvette or Camaro is.

It has an identity beyond segment.

People who love them do so because they are El Caminos, not because they compare well to competitors - there are none.

This vehicle has instant recognizability which is something GM sorely lacks.

Like Corvette, it sells itself.

Sure, when and if it comes to a NA plant, having other variants might broaden its appeal. A crewcab, AWD, other drivetrain and fuel options, but that is all beside the point - at least for now. GM needs to let it be what it is, make it available here, and capitalize on a well-loved nameplate with a true-to-form modern offering. It just so happens that they have just such an offering in their back pocket.

It's past time that they used it.

And that sub-30k (with incentives) truck? That's a stripper no one really wants that will have about the same payload as the Ute, be less comfortable, have less power, and get worse mileage.

Some deal, that.

You are so emotional about this anymore it clouds your thinking. Sorry but it is showing because you make claims with this vehicle that you would not make otherwise.

Prior to 1982 sales were very good but after 82 and with the gowth of the smaller trucks it dropped each and every year. Even then they were around a 20,000 average. Now with the many other vehicles and small SUV's it will have even more compitition.

Consider how big the "small" truck has gotten these days. There's definitely room for something smaller than a Colorado, Tacoma, or Frontier. The Ute/El Camino is perfect to fill that role.

I could stand behind creating Ute variants, even sending a couple to GMC and possibly even Cadillac.

I agree the Colorado should be the size of the last gen S10. The Ranger as outdated as it was filled the market well till it was finally dropped.

But to think the Ute would fill this roll on a VF platform is off in size. The VF Ute would be around the same size bed as the Colorado just with lower sides. Now if they would move it to the Alpha that would help make it smaller.

I wish they would do the version they showed as the Denali 4 door show ute. I think that would play well with the present day market. this also would add more volume to the market to help keep the two door alive.

The greatest issue to the average buyer is the lack of utility in the 2 door with little inside storage and seating. The crew cab version already is being built and should also be offered.

An El Camino doesn't have any competition - there is simply nothing like it on the market.

It won't be crossed-shopped with standard trucks.

It is itself in the same way that a Corvette or Camaro is.

It has an identity beyond segment.

People who love them do so because they are El Caminos, not because they compare well to competitors - there are none.

This vehicle has instant recognizability which is something GM sorely lacks.

Like Corvette, it sells itself.

Sure, when and if it comes to a NA plant, having other variants might broaden its appeal. A crewcab, AWD, other drivetrain and fuel options, but that is all beside the point - at least for now. GM needs to let it be what it is, make it available here, and capitalize on a well-loved nameplate with a true-to-form modern offering. It just so happens that they have just such an offering in their back pocket.

It's past time that they used it.

And that sub-30k (with incentives) truck? That's a stripper no one really wants that will have about the same payload as the Ute, be less comfortable, have less power, and get worse mileage.

Some deal, that.

You are so emotional about this anymore it clouds your thinking. Sorry but it is showing because you make claims with this vehicle that you would not make otherwise.

Like what?

Trust me the emotion of this spent itself a while back, but the stupidity of the continuing saga requires me to speak out.

I agree the Colorado should be the size of the last gen S10. The Ranger as outdated as it was filled the market well till it was finally dropped.

But to think the Ute would fill this roll on a VF platform is off in size. The VF Ute would be around the same size bed as the Colorado just with lower sides. Now if they would move it to the Alpha that would help make it smaller.

I wish they would do the version they showed as the Denali 4 door show ute. I think that would play well with the present day market. this also would add more volume to the market to help keep the two door alive.

The greatest issue to the average buyer is the lack of utility in the 2 door with little inside storage and seating. The crew cab version already is being built and should also be offered.

The Ute is significantly shorter in every dimension except width.Plus, Holden has no problem selling the Ute and Colorado side by side in Australia, so I don't think that'd be a problem in truck-happy USA.

My father inlaws Silverado I drive often as it is the family truck was $21000 with the LT2 package 2WD, limited slip, extended cab, Aluminum wheels, CD and Satilite radio. V8 and towing package. The truck is far from stripped and was an easy buy for him with the Oct Chevy sale they have on trucks every year.

The hauling is better due to the larger and deeper bed also much more room and we can carry 6 people in it. The Ute may have more power but the 5.3 is more than enought to do anyhting needed. MPG will be a little less but in trucks most people don't care.

There is nothing on the market like it as the niche is small and not many companies could afford to do one. GM and Ford are the only ones that could pull this off.

I love this car as much as anyone. If priced right it could very well be my next car. I accept the limitations and all because I like the car like ride and uility. I also am used to living with a 2 seater car. But I also an not so bent on this car that I can look around and understand where the market is at and what most buyers are willing to accept. There is a small segment they can sell this too but I am affraid they could fill that segment in 2-3 years and end up seeing the car go away. To do this right GM needs to support it with other models with shared parts. Moving the VF to Canada would strengthen the model and help keep it alive.

A Plant making several VF models in Canada is just what they doctor ordered and could support several lower volume models.

It is ok to feel the emotion just don't let it over rule your judgment. It is a shame you and I are in a very small group of people that would be happy in a vehicle like this but I have learned to accept it and hope things still can be worked out but I am not putting all my hopes on it. I understand times are tough, GM is trying to save their ass with products the majority want and I know there is a group there that is not giving up on this car easy like Mark.

Utility is a prime thing for most buyers today. The fact that it has a bed does give it some utility but the car also has many issues in other areas of expected utility from todays American buyers. While this was a popular car in the States in the past it still was never to the level it was in OZ.

The bottom line is GM has a lot of things on their plate and most are more important than a low volume car. As GM gets stronger they can afford to move away to more special models but GM is still to a point that if they don't get their main line models right they could still fail.

I agree the Colorado should be the size of the last gen S10. The Ranger as outdated as it was filled the market well till it was finally dropped.

But to think the Ute would fill this roll on a VF platform is off in size. The VF Ute would be around the same size bed as the Colorado just with lower sides. Now if they would move it to the Alpha that would help make it smaller.

I wish they would do the version they showed as the Denali 4 door show ute. I think that would play well with the present day market. this also would add more volume to the market to help keep the two door alive.

The greatest issue to the average buyer is the lack of utility in the 2 door with little inside storage and seating. The crew cab version already is being built and should also be offered.

The Ute is significantly shorter in every dimension except width.Plus, Holden has no problem selling the Ute and Colorado side by side in Australia, so I don't think that'd be a problem in truck-happy USA.

Not that much.

Also the Oz market has had these vehicles longer than we have going way back before 59. They have already established market there and a love for the car we just lost here by the general buyer.

Even when I owned my GMC I would hear the comments on how impractical it was. It did not bother me but most people were troubled even then with the ability to carry only 2 people and nothing else inside. I even removed the spare for more room.

I'm not going to bother to address all of that, it's old ground we have been over before.

I'll just say this: I prefer a two seater - hauling other people around is not a priority,

And Oz may have been loving Utes longer, but one hell of a lot more of them have been sold here.

Bringing this vehicle here in no way takes away from the boring crap they have to sell, it doesn't impact those programs at all, and the notion that it would hurt Colorado is just laughable.

There is no downside to importing a few thousand of these - it simply doesn't exist.

I'm not going to bother to address all of that, it's old ground we have been over before.

I'll just say this: I prefer a two seater - hauling other people around is not a priority,

And Oz may have been loving Utes longer, but one hell of a lot more of them have been sold here.

Bringing this vehicle here in no way takes away from the boring crap they have to sell, it doesn't impact those programs at all, and the notion that it would hurt Colorado is just laughable.

There is no downside to importing a few thousand of these - it simply doesn't exist.

It is more about the regular auto buyer not just you or me that like this vehicle. We are not the average buyer anymore. Untility and ability to haul people is what most buyers look for and why even coupes outside a Camaro are a hard sell. Even Standard cab pickups are not what they used to be.

I think you will find that all things being equal the Ute has been sold in much greater numbers for as so many fewer buyers in OZ than here. Even back in the day the Camaino was not a car embraced by all.

As for protecting the Colorado it may be the other way around as I think the market will embrace the Colorado on a scale that it could hurt the sales of the Camino right out of the gate. I think releasing it after the first wave of the Colorado will not let it get lost in the whole deal.

Lets face it they need to give the Camino ever break they can as with the low volume it is the program could become a 2 year and out deal easily. You need to keep in mind there are a few in GM yet that don't want it and they will look for any excuse to pull it. This is one car they have to get right as if they F up the into and sales are not there we may never see it again.

There is no down side to importing it but given poor or lower than projected sales it could be a very short run. While a year or two may get you one now it may not get you one to replace it in the future.

Big picture bud I want this car to win the game not just make a few people happy for a year or two. I want it to be possible this could be my next 2 or three new cars in the future.

We don't need another flash in the pan SSR.

To dismiss the Ute as something just for El Camino enthusiasts is an error IMO. I get that GM needs to focus on its core products and enthusiasts aren't important and yadda yadda yadda, but the Ute does have the potential to nudge its way into Chevy's core. I've already said its a great "lifestyle" vehicle, but it's tidier proportions and fuel efficiency also perfect for fleet and "work truck" applications. If GM ends up doing a half dozen or so variants a la the prevous gen Ute (4dr, AWD, chassis cab, flatbed, Sandman) its chances for success will only increase.

Who says the Ute would have to be a high-volume seller here? Sales of the Ute in Australia, South Africa, and the Middle East would be enough to support sales of the Ute here. Like, duh.

Like I said earlier, Akerson is pushing hard for decentralization. That means, in layman's terms, taking GM completely global in order for better scales of economy ... which also means that "regional" models like the Ute have to become global. GM won't walk away from the Ute and the profits it generates before allowing it to be sold in North America. Expecting otherwise is ignorant and unrealistic.

Once again, the VF platform cars could be produced in Oshawa in the near future and, just to remind you guys, GM is pushing for Chevrolet and Holden to be completely aligned.

Take a good hard look at the facts. Seriously. The stars are aligning for the Ute to come to North America, but as with any galatic alignment, it takes a hell of a long time.

P.S. Before you necromance the G8 ST from its coffin, just stop and forget that ever happened. What ultimately stopped the Ute from coming here as a Pontiac was the massive cloud of uncertainty engulfing the brand, not that the Ute was wrong for the North American market or that it wouldn't sell a billion units a month.

GM could sell 10,000 of them a year here at full MSRP and additional dealer markup. It wouldn't make Camino happy moneywise, but if you're already throwing a bunch of PPVs on a boat, there is no harm sending over some Utes too. Advertising needs would be minimal because of pent up, 20 years worth of demand.

Who says the Ute would have to be a high-volume seller here? Sales of the Ute in Australia, South Africa, and the Middle East would be enough to support sales of the Ute here. Like, duh.

Like I said earlier, Akerson is pushing hard for decentralization. That means, in layman's terms, taking GM completely global in order for better scales of economy ... which also means that "regional" models like the Ute have to become global. GM won't walk away from the Ute and the profits it generates before allowing it to be sold in North America. Expecting otherwise is ignorant and unrealistic.

Once again, the VF platform cars could be produced in Oshawa in the near future and, just to remind you guys, GM is pushing for Chevrolet and Holden to be completely aligned.

Take a good hard look at the facts. Seriously. The stars are aligning for the Ute to come to North America, but as with any galatic alignment, it takes a hell of a long time.

P.S. Before you necromance the G8 ST from its coffin, just stop and forget that ever happened. What ultimately stopped the Ute from coming here as a Pontiac was the massive cloud of uncertainty engulfing the brand, not that the Ute was wrong for the North American market or that it wouldn't sell a billion units a month.

Akerson is pushing to CENTRALIZE, not decentralize...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120818/AUTO0103/208180317

GM could sell 10,000 of them a year here at full MSRP and additional dealer markup. It wouldn't make Camino happy moneywise, but if you're already throwing a bunch of PPVs on a boat, there is no harm sending over some Utes too. Advertising needs would be minimal because of pent up, 20 years worth of demand.

This is the only point that matters in the short run.

All of the other arguments are for tomorrow, after it makes its first run here.

It's all so simple, really.

Who says the Ute would have to be a high-volume seller here? Sales of the Ute in Australia, South Africa, and the Middle East would be enough to support sales of the Ute here. Like, duh.

Like I said earlier, Akerson is pushing hard for decentralization. That means, in layman's terms, taking GM completely global in order for better scales of economy ... which also means that "regional" models like the Ute have to become global. GM won't walk away from the Ute and the profits it generates before allowing it to be sold in North America. Expecting otherwise is ignorant and unrealistic.

Once again, the VF platform cars could be produced in Oshawa in the near future and, just to remind you guys, GM is pushing for Chevrolet and Holden to be completely aligned.

Take a good hard look at the facts. Seriously. The stars are aligning for the Ute to come to North America, but as with any galatic alignment, it takes a hell of a long time.

P.S. Before you necromance the G8 ST from its coffin, just stop and forget that ever happened. What ultimately stopped the Ute from coming here as a Pontiac was the massive cloud of uncertainty engulfing the brand, not that the Ute was wrong for the North American market or that it wouldn't sell a billion units a month.

Akerson is pushing to CENTRALIZE, not decentralize...

http://www.detroitne...O0103/208180317

I'm sorry. Contrary to what you're reading in the media, it still seems to me that "decentralization" still sounds more like the appropriate term to use overall and is still the overall goal.

The only thing that will truly be centralized in the future will be purchasing. GM's foreign interests (GM Europe, GM Australia, GM South Korea) will also have more "centralized" communication with home base in Michigan. That's pretty much where the word "centralization" both comes in and leaves and its just so that GM can keep better track of how it spends its money and what its employees are up to.

Read between the lines. It's all there.

It can and will be low volume but that does not mean they can just put it out there with out doing it right. They can mess this up because of the low volume in market here if they are not careful and make the short but sweet run. I want this to be a car that stays around. Just because they sell it else where does help it but will not excuse it for poor profit numbers here. Like I said it does have it's critics and they will be looking for any excuse.

20 years of demand minus too high of price minus many more choices on the market that have taken the type person who used to buy this away minus the people who want to carry more than 2 people and have inside storage. Just look at the crap people are buying just for utility anymore. Cool is not as much a factor anymore. This car would see 2-3 good years at best to start at 10,000 units but after that it will slow down and will need to rely on other product on the line. This is where Canada makes sense. after the second and third year this will be a 3K-5K unit car at best at the price point it will be at.

To make this a lifestyle vehicle would mean 4 doors and more utility. I could see a version of that to share volume but it will not work for the diehards.

Besides the last life style vehicle GM did was the Aztek and we know how that one went.

What would be interesting would be to use a cool Chevy nose on it. I have already seen the Camaro nose on these and it looked good. Chevy once used the Monte Carlo nose to good effect so I see no issue here. The original also used the nose of the Impala and Chevelle. Give it a true GM Sport face.

With this Camaro going away they could modify this nose with a new grill and use the ZL1 hood to make a special car since the Camaro will be moving to the Alpha anyway. I suspect many will not be happy with the nose on the new Super Sport anyways as it will still have a lot of Holden in it.

I think I prefer the Holden nose.

I'm fine with the chevy nose they are already using in production:

I think I prefer the Holden nose.

But then it is about more than you!

What one would sell better to the American public.

To be honest both would be low volume but it is something to consider as I don't want to see this car after 3 years tank at 3500 units. Few cars outside the Miata can do that and survive.

To prevent tanking, make it in the vein of the El Camino... with a good number of variants. Base model six cylinder manual steel wheels up to firebreather V8 automatic with buckets, leather, big rims, the works. The idea of selling this as V8, hi-po only limits its appeal. A vehicle like this could once again find success in the market if it is pitched to more than "one" customer.

A local mechanical home services company still has their fleet of El Caminos parked out in front of their building. It would be fantastic to see them be able to replace those late-80's vehicles with new ones.

This does not have to be another limited "halo" vehicle.

Of course not, but it has to actually get here first.

I think I prefer the Holden nose.

But then it is about more than you!

What one would sell better to the American public.

To be honest both would be low volume but it is something to consider as I don't want to see this car after 3 years tank at 3500 units. Few cars outside the Miata can do that and survive.

Not an issue, Holden can barely build more than that many per year.

To prevent tanking, make it in the vein of the El Camino... with a good number of variants. Base model six cylinder manual steel wheels up to firebreather V8 automatic with buckets, leather, big rims, the works. The idea of selling this as V8, hi-po only limits its appeal. A vehicle like this could once again find success in the market if it is pitched to more than "one" customer.

A local mechanical home services company still has their fleet of El Caminos parked out in front of their building. It would be fantastic to see them be able to replace those late-80's vehicles with new ones.

This does not have to be another limited "halo" vehicle.

I agree that some options or extentions of this model would be a good idea. Limiting it to one model could be limiting to its future. The key it ot make one with more utility for the modern buyer.

I think a GMC version like the Denali Show car based on many of the similar parts would help the model. V6 options would also help lower cost.

But all these ideas have to be balanced vs the cost of putting them into production vs expected sales or capacity to build them. These are numbers only GM can answer and have to answer for.

If this was as slam dumk as some want to thing it would already be here. Life and building cars sometimes is just not that simple.

Of course not, but it has to actually get here first.

I think I prefer the Holden nose.

But then it is about more than you!

What one would sell better to the American public.

To be honest both would be low volume but it is something to consider as I don't want to see this car after 3 years tank at 3500 units. Few cars outside the Miata can do that and survive.

Not an issue, Holden can barely build more than that many per year.

That may just be part of the issue. The point here is to make money not just build one guy in America a car.

Oh please.

This "bigger" plan you have to expand the model is the one that will cost money and be complicated, importing the Ute as is on the contrary, is dead simple ,easy, and already possible.

Let me repeat again the simple truth: selling every single one of these that Holden has the capacity to build is a walk in the park.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

For once, they need to just get on with it instead of beating the idea to death and angering those who have wanted this car for years.

It is simple - until someone makes it complex.

It should have been in motion the moment they decide to kill Pontiac.

Not every car has to appeal to every person, this car has a market that already exists at the levels Holden can build it.

It's a no-brainer.

Now, I'm not oppsed to variants when and if production moves to NA, but let's not put the cart before the horse.

Oh please.

This "bigger" plan you have to expand the model is the one that will cost money and be complicated, importing the Ute as is on the contrary, is dead simple ,easy, and already possible.

Let me repeat again the simple truth: selling every single one of these that Holden has the capacity to build is a walk in the park.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

For once, they need to just get on with it instead of beating the idea to death and angering those who have wanted this car for years.

It is simple - until someone makes it complex.

It should have been in motion the moment they decide to kill Pontiac.

Not every car has to appeal to every person, this car has a market that already exists at the levels Holden can build it.

It's a no-brainer.

Now, I'm not oppsed to variants when and if production moves to NA, but let's not put the cart before the horse.

It is a no bainer when you don't have to answer for it when it all goes bad.

It can't go bad, it's too small to go bad.

Ya right and GM's is too large to fail too.

There is no downside, no plants to set up, no development costs, no need for massive advertising, no new parts to develop (except an El Camino badge) . Hell, even the crash testing was already done for the G8ST. The import system is already in place, spare parts would only need to add Ute-specific bits...

It doesn't get much easier than that to introduce a new model to your lineup.

Or cheaper, for that matter.

If they can screw that up, they ought to take their ball and go home.

like the thought but really it won't sell enough or fast enough. Sure they could try for 10k sales but that would be the max.....5k is more like it.

If GM is going to get in on niches, then the full astra line should make the shores here. the adam, too. Corsa, Meriva, Or the commodore wagon, the insignia hatch and wagon, etc.

trax, orlando,........

i only see this happening if by some weird reason the SS sedan and the ute have the same model name in the US..... like SS and SSR.... body variations on one model.

Trust me, as long as GM nor their Chevy dealers price these things into the stratosphere Camino would not be the only person targeted for this vehicle in the States. I too would love to own one of these Ute's, be it a Chevy or a GMC. As a lifestyle vehicle, GM would need to offer accessories for it from the start. I'm sure Holden has a ton of stuff for it already, just rebrand it (Chevy or GMC logo instead of the Holden Lion's head) and ship it over before the Utes arrive. Everything from a slide-out cargo tray to bed-mounted bike/kayak racks to a tent (a'la Aztek)... I'm sure those who could use a 2-seater lifestyle vehicle that don't go offroad will be attracted to the Ute (it's not ugly as the Aztek!!). The loaded 6.0L or 6.2L V8 models will target those that want a modern day muscle car. Dodge can have the Challenger, Ford can have the Mustang, and though Chevy has the Camaro the Ute would be another impressive sport-performance model in the stable.

Crazy idea - bring it back as a modern-day GMC Syclone (albeit in RWD form only).

For those that don't remember the Sandman concept.

name one tradesman who couldn't make good use of a vehicle like this.

For those that don't remember the Sandman concept.

name one tradesman who couldn't make good use of a vehicle like this.

Now that is one to forget.

Seen cruising at Woodward this year:

See the whole AutoWeek gallery here: http://www.autoweek.com/section/woodward&template=photostream

So just do whatever that guy did Camino.

So just do whatever that guy did Camino.

He can't, unless he's General Motors.

On another forum, a member there happens to be friends with the Exec that had in his garage the Pontiac G8 ST you see above. It was one of few G8 STs in the country prior to the news Pontiac was being shuttered. This person was lucky to see it (and get some crappy shots), but mentioned on that forum that it was photographed at this year's Woodward Dream Cruise (note the manufacturer's plate on the rear). That is a rare car indeed, and one likely not to go to the Heritage Collection though it should (more than likely to the crusher).

It ought to go to my freakin' driveway!

They could at least let me drive one of them for a while - before they crush it.

Is there no way to potentially buy the vehicle, with certain provisions in place? There must be someone at C&G who could contact the appropriate people and arrange something?

Is there no way to potentially buy the vehicle, with certain provisions in place? There must be someone at C&G who could contact the appropriate people and arrange something?

Probably not due to liability issues - unless it goes to auction with a salvage title like some GM showcars did not long ago.

Generally they get crushed or go to the heritage center. Once at the Heritage center they do sometimes sell them off but they generally can not be titled for the road unless it was a full approved production vehicle. This one could pass as one but since it was never offically released it could be banned from the road. This one would be a gray area that would need to be clairified.

If they could sell it otherwise I am sure someone in GM would get it long before anyone here.

I have a few friends that have old Heritage cars and no way to drive them on the streets.

Generally they get crushed or go to the heritage center. Once at the Heritage center they do sometimes sell them off but they generally can not be titled for the road unless it was a full approved production vehicle. This one could pass as one but since it was never offically released it could be banned from the road. This one would be a gray area that would need to be clairified.

If they could sell it otherwise I am sure someone in GM would get it long before anyone here.

I have a few friends that have old Heritage cars and no way to drive them on the streets.

These would be a very grey area. Were all of the federal tests complete? Does the car have a VIN? Does it have a Pontiac VIN, or a Holden VIN? Lots of unknowns.

If any of these ever went to auction, I'd be out of luck anyway - no way I could compete with the well-heeled collectors.

Thinking about it a bit more, the timing was just about right for any of these that were here to have been Pontiac VINned. They were likely destined for the CTF fleet and for duty as press cars. So they just might be fully legal to own and drive.

Not that I have any shot - but it is interesting to think about.

For those that don't remember the Sandman concept.

name one tradesman who couldn't make good use of a vehicle like this.

For those that don't remember the Sandman concept.

name one tradesman who couldn't make good use of a vehicle like this.

Would work perfectly for me, albeit it would look stupid with ladder racks on top of it...

Thinking about it a bit more, the timing was just about right for any of these that were here to have been Pontiac VINned. They were likely destined for the CTF fleet and for duty as press cars. So they just might be fully legal to own and drive.

Not that I have any shot - but it is interesting to think about.

Sadly, they were probably all crushed a year or two ago....

I think I prefer the Holden nose.

But then it is about more than you!

What one would sell better to the American public.

To be honest both would be low volume but it is something to consider as I don't want to see this car after 3 years tank at 3500 units. Few cars outside the Miata can do that and survive.

By this justification, GM shouldn't build the CTS-V...Mazda sells about 4 Miatas for every CTS-V GM sells...

Apparently, not all of them have been crushed.

And, for one to be at Woodward it almost has to carry a Pontiac VIN.

By law, all of the Holden- VINned examples would have to have been shipped back or crushed by now.

It would be so cool for some of them to survive!

It would be so cool for some of them to survive!

Sure would.

Even if I can't have one.