Silverado Confirmed with Hummer SUV and Truck to be built at gm's Factory ZERO Plant

1 hour ago, David said:

The Green Drive to one million EV's by 2025

What is this; every BE producer in every automotive market & country, or...?

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What is this; every BE producer in every automotive market & country, or...?

See the part in bold. 
 

“The Green Drive to one million EV's by 2025 with recognized leadership in North America will happen using gm's new Ultium Platform and Silverado's proven capability. GM confirmed”

400 miles would be a lot of range for a pickup, I assume that will be a big battery, so that one will probably be pricey.  But I imagine they will also have  a smaller battery pack at a lower price point also, and there is a market that will pay big money for a pickup.

Shareholders want EV's so car companies are going to build them no matter what.

51 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

See the part in bold. 
 

“The Green Drive to one million EV's by 2025 with recognized leadership in North America will happen using gm's new Ultium Platform and Silverado's proven capability. GM confirmed”

'GM confirmed' was part of the next sentence; it still wasn't clear if GM was part of that, or it was all GM.

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

'GM confirmed' was part of the next sentence; it still wasn't clear if GM was part of that, or it was all GM.

Press release is from gm, so I have to assume that number they put in their press release is them.

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

'GM confirmed' was part of the next sentence; it still wasn't clear if GM was part of that, or it was all GM.

Okay so maybe it just seems obvious to me that they are referring to GM's numbers only.

OK, that may well be what was meant. 

Only reason I'm wondering is- '1 million units in the U.S. by GM by 2025' is awful ambitious; seeing's how they sold 2.9 million in 2019 AND the Lyric isn't due until fall of '22 and is only the 2nd GM BE. Hummers aren't going to contribute much in the way of volume... so 1. where's all the product to achieve this, and 2. will consumers buy them?

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

OK, that may well be what was meant. 

Only reason I'm wondering is- '1 million units in the U.S. by GM by 2025' is awful ambitious; seeing's how they sold 2.9 million in 2019 AND the Lyric isn't due until fall of '22 and is only the 2nd GM BE. Hummers aren't going to contribute much in the way of volume... so 1. where's all the product to achieve this, and 2. will consumers buy them?

They won't even come close but BEV will become more mainstream.

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

OK, that may well be what was meant. 

Only reason I'm wondering is- '1 million units in the U.S. by GM by 2025' is awful ambitious; seeing's how they sold 2.9 million in 2019 AND the Lyric isn't due until fall of '22 and is only the 2nd GM BE. Hummers aren't going to contribute much in the way of volume... so 1. where's all the product to achieve this, and 2. will consumers buy them?

I suspect that Silverado is but the tip of mass production of BEV and we will see a wider release of various sized SUV/Truck BEV's that come in a much wider assortment of price and options.

You do bring up a very valid point and makes me wonder when they mention FLEET how much they might be counting on government, state, county and cities purchasing fleet EV Trucks to make up that number.

Lyric debuted a month or so ago, and it’s a ‘23. Hummer is also about that far off (different trims launch at different times). But have we even seen a camo’d test Silverado EV, nevermind a reveal? That has to be a ‘24 at this point.

Where’s this “million sales” possibly going to come from?

I agree that Gov’t sales will be a huge proportion, since Gov’t basically has no budget restrictions, but the entire federal fleet is only 650K as it is.

Unless GM is sitting on a dozen unseen-but-production-ready BE’s, they’re not going to hit 250K by 2025.

Green Car Reports does a fair assessment of what the Silverado will be and have and since the base platform being used for the Hummer is what the Silverado will use, they make some fair assessments on this truck.

Here’s what the Hummer EV tells us about the Chevy Silverado EV (greencarreports.com)

19 hours ago, balthazar said:

OK, that may well be what was meant. 

Only reason I'm wondering is- '1 million units in the U.S. by GM by 2025' is awful ambitious; seeing's how they sold 2.9 million in 2019 AND the Lyric isn't due until fall of '22 and is only the 2nd GM BE. Hummers aren't going to contribute much in the way of volume... so 1. where's all the product to achieve this, and 2. will consumers buy them?

They have to say that and aim for it, because GM could sell 3 million gas Silverados and Escalades this year and their stock price won't even move.    If they sell EV's investors will come and drive the stock price.   Electric is all investors care about, see Tesla as an example, they could go 10 more years without a profit and still be worth 20 times what Ford or GM are worth as a company.

I agree that it is ambitious, I am not sure where the sales will come from either.  Unless GM prices the EV Silverado the same as the gas Silverado and takes a loss on every one of them in the name of building stock price.   GM could take an income loss, use the loopholes in the tax code to basically make it not matter, and draw in investor money by the billions.

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

Lyric debuted a month or so ago, and it’s a ‘23. Hummer is also about that far off (different trims launch at different times). But have we even seen a camo’d test Silverado EV, nevermind a reveal? That has to be a ‘24 at this point.

Where’s this “million sales” possibly going to come from?

I agree that Gov’t sales will be a huge proportion, since Gov’t basically has no budget restrictions, but the entire federal fleet is only 650K as it is.

Unless GM is sitting on a dozen unseen-but-production-ready BE’s, they’re not going to hit 250K by 2025.

I don't think they will find a million sales either, but they have to blow smoke to Wall Street.  

They also aren't going to find it with delivery trucks or driverless Uber vehicles, that self drive tech won't be ready for prime time by 2025.

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM could sell 3 million gas Silverados and Escalades this year and their stock price won't even move.    If they sell EV's investors will come and drive the stock price.

Uhhh, you're in the past on this one. GM sells only IC Silverados & Escalades, and the stock is ALREADY up over 300% over the last 12 months.

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Uhhh, you're in the past on this one. GM sells only IC Silverados & Escalades, and the stock is ALREADY up over 300% over the last 12 months.

Tesla net income in 2020 was $721 million and they are worth $645 billion.

GM net income in 2020 was $6.25 billion and they are worth $85 billion.

And GM's stock price is probably up because they are saying they are going to be an EV company and changed their logo. 

27 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla net income in 2020 was $721 million and they are worth $645 billion.

GM net income in 2020 was $6.25 billion and they are worth $85 billion.

And GM's stock price is probably up because they are saying they are going to be an EV company and changed their logo. 

All based on nothing but cocktails and dreams

Lets be honest... 

GM is worth a helluva lot more than 85 billion.  Just the factory at Bowling Green Kentucky where they build the Corvette is worth 93 million dollars...   JUST the factory

How do I figure?

 The factory is 1 milllion sq. feet.   In Kentucky...sq foot is worth 93 bucks.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-facilities/gm-usa-facilities/gm-bowling-green-plant/

https://www.homes.com/kentucky/what-is-my-home-worth/

                                (Homes...not factories.  Just a quick research to prove a point)

93 million only for the damned building.  Robots and paints and tools and tables and chairs could fetch more money.   Then there is something called the Corvette...   THAT name ALONE is worth MORE than what Tesla has as vehicles all together...

Wallstreet up sellers and short sellers and fast money makers and con artists and thieves and get rich quick scammers and shyte disturbers and filth of the earth have set a price for Tesla that is high and set a price for gm that is low.  

Nothing more. Nothing less.

While Tesla is hot as a brand, the Mustang Mach E is currently cleaning Tesla's clock, in regards to the hot EV of the moment...

Ford...another company that Wallstreet wants to ignore...

Dont go there about stock price worth. 

Its smoke and mirrors.

53 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

All based on nothing but cocktails and dreams

 

Dont go there about stock price worth. 

Its smoke and mirrors.

 

Sure it is cocktails and dreams.

But CEO's of most companies are compensated in stock, and get bonuses based on stock price gains.  10% of Marry Barra's pay is salary, 90% is stock and bonus, so what is her top priority?  Drive the stock price.  She got $15.6 million in stock in 2019, if that stock price goes up, her net worth goes up.  

Investors don't care about ICE vehicles, they want EV's and self driving.  Case in point, Lucid Motors is expected to be worth $57 billion at their IPO, while they haven't even sold (or at least not delivered) a single car yet.  Meanwhile Ford is worth $49 billion, because Ford is the past, not the future, and investors put money on the future.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Investors don't care about ICE vehicles

They why do investors hold 1.5 billion shares of GM?

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

what is her top priority?  Drive the stock price.

That's a blind assumption on your part.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

so what is her top priority?  Drive the stock price.

And? That makes her just like EVERY OTHER company head, including companies like Daimler.

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But CEO's of most companies are compensated in stock, and get bonuses based on stock price gains.

Maybe true, for today's world.  Performance metrics are thrown out the window.  I wonder how long that kind of debauchery will last though.  Last time I checked, sales derived profits are what makes a business, any business, stay alive...

I wonder when all that imaginary money dries up, and there are no more idiot investors trying to make a quick buck STOP the money faucet, I wonder what all those  Wallstreet up sellers and short sellers and fast money makers and con artists and thieves and get rich quick scammers and shyte disturbers and filth of the earth will do?

Tesla is not going anywhere.  But they might NOT be an EV producin' entity though, if they do NOT give the world a gen two  Model S and Model X and gen two Model  3 and Model Y.   The Ford Mach E is getting conquest sales from Tesla...   

So when YOU are tooting Tesla's  stock market number right now, but when GM and VW and others start rolling their EVs Tesla is still rolling with their gen one Model S, Model X, Model 3 and , It wont mean much and  Im afraid Wallstreet WILL have to start lookin' at sales performance stats again...

Tesla IS ahead of everybody else in EV tech. Mostly in software programming of the battery metrics.  But THAT gap is QUICKLY closing from what I see Ford is doing (with the Mach E) and what GM is capable of doing with the Hummer EV.    By the time the full on EV Corvette comes on about, Im thinking that is when GM would have surpassed Tesla's tech.  

I keep on saying it, shyte on GM all you want, but the Corvette is proof positive of what the General is capable of doing.  And even Tesla hasnt accomplished what the C8 has both in terms of speed performance (The C8 is on the Model S' heels on a BASE model), mass production on an extremely expensive architecture AND turning a profit on it...   You know...what Wallstreet stock prices SHOULD be judged on...

In no time, GM will have plenty of EV models...  doubling and almost tripling Tesla's offerings. And then what do we talk about concerning  Wallstreet types wanting to see EVs and yelling from the rooftops Tesla Tesla Tesla???

I find this interesting, clearly some problems in mixing up numbers such as dealerships listed as I think they flipped the GM and Tesla dealership / store numbers.

Interesting reading and I do not agree with this writers assessment especially in regards to Tesla. Yet he does make some valid points and Tesla might only have 13 billion on the books as debt, but then the stock value is what has driven the ability for Tesla to do what it is doing.

Is Tesla's Stock Overvalued? Key Comparisons to GM and Ford (tradestation.com)

Interesting that every year we seem to find some news outlet that compares Tesla to gm and Ford. From Jan 9th 2020 as a comparison over a year ago to the story above that was done today, April 8th 2021.

Tesla's Market Value Is Now Higher Than GM And Ford Combined (insideevs.com)

^ Yes, the # of dealerships figures are switched.

Yes; Tesla's stock is terrifically over-weighted.

What's interesting is that Tesla has 50% of GM's employees but only builds 7% of GM's volume.

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Yes, the # of dealerships figures are switched.

Yes; Tesla's stock is terrifically over-weighted.

What's interesting is that Tesla has 50% of GM's employees but only builds 7% of GM's volume.

Yes, unless they can truly get profitable with much more production over the next 24 to 36 months, the OEMs of the Auto Industry are going to eat Tesla alive and they will not survive as an independent company.

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And? That makes her just like EVERY OTHER company head, including companies like Daimler.

Right, every car company is going to push EV, regardless of whether consumers want them or ask for them, because shareholders want EVs, and self driving.  

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Maybe true, for today's world.  Performance metrics are thrown out the window.  I wonder how long that kind of debauchery will last though.  Last time I checked, sales derived profits are what makes a business, any business, stay alive...

I wonder when all that imaginary money dries up, and there are no more idiot investors trying to make a quick buck STOP the money faucet, I wonder what all those  Wallstreet up sellers and short sellers and fast money makers and con artists and thieves and get rich quick scammers and shyte disturbers and filth of the earth will do?

Tesla is not going anywhere.  But they might NOT be an EV producin' entity though, if they do NOT give the world a gen two  Model S and Model X and gen two Model  3 and Model Y.   The Ford Mach E is getting conquest sales from Tesla...   

So when YOU are tooting Tesla's  stock market number right now, but when GM and VW and others start rolling their EVs Tesla is still rolling with their gen one Model S, Model X, Model 3 and , It wont mean much and  Im afraid Wallstreet WILL have to start lookin' at sales performance stats again...

Tesla IS ahead of everybody else in EV tech. Mostly in software programming of the battery metrics.  But THAT gap is QUICKLY closing from what I see Ford is doing (with the Mach E) and what GM is capable of doing with the Hummer EV.    By the time the full on EV Corvette comes on about, Im thinking that is when GM would have surpassed Tesla's tech.  

I keep on saying it, shyte on GM all you want, but the Corvette is proof positive of what the General is capable of doing.  And even Tesla hasnt accomplished what the C8 has both in terms of speed performance (The C8 is on the Model S' heels on a BASE model), mass production on an extremely expensive architecture AND turning a profit on it...   You know...what Wallstreet stock prices SHOULD be judged on...

In no time, GM will have plenty of EV models...  doubling and almost tripling Tesla's offerings. And then what do we talk about concerning  Wallstreet types wanting to see EVs and yelling from the rooftops Tesla Tesla Tesla???

 

But a company like Lucid, that will be lucky to sell 10k vehicles a year, is worth more than Ford selling 4 million a year.  If the Mach-E is positive influence on share price, and even if you say the Mach-E is just as impactful to investors as the Lucid Air is, then the rest of Ford Motor Company has a negative value.  

I think GM will dive in hard on EV's, they have said that is their mission, that is what investors want, that is what they are going to do.  This will push the price of cars up, will probably reduce sales, I don't know if consumers want a flood of EV's, but that is what they are going to build.  

In reference to the Corvette, I predict the C8 will be the last Corvette with a gas engine.   Also Tesla will not be easy to beat.

1 hour ago, David said:

Yes, unless they can truly get profitable with much more production over the next 24 to 36 months, the OEMs of the Auto Industry are going to eat Tesla alive and they will not survive as an independent company.

Amazon barely turned profit from 1996 to 2016, and yet they are the most valuable company in the world now.  

I actually don't think Tesla needs to turn much profit, as long as they aren't sustaining losses, investors will buy.  Tesla will be able to do more in self drive, ride share, subscriptions, selling insurance, etc that GM and Ford won't get into.   GM and Ford sell a product get revenue once and it is over, Tesla will find ways to monetize a vehicle for years and have higher revenue streams.

• Ride share & subscription programs have been tried by numerous brands; consumers don't want them.
• The vast bulk of Tesla's existence has been "sustaining losses".
• Stock is only a paper asset. It's a loan that is payable upon demand, with no advance notice or conditions.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

• Ride share & subscription programs have been tried by numerous brands; consumers don't want them.
• The vast bulk of Tesla's existence has been "sustaining losses".
• Stock is only a paper asset. It's a loan that is payable upon demand, with no advance notice or conditions.

Uber had 6.9 billion rides in 2019.  What if half that many get done by a driverless Tesla at $20 per ride, that is $70 billion of revenue for them.

Subscription programs failed because they cost too much and the car isn’t shared.  A driverless car could serve 5-10 people per day, meaning it could be cheaper to be driven around in a Model S than to buy a Chevy Trax.  

Uber is a taxi service, serving 1 or 2 passengers. It's not technically 'ride-sharing', and Uber doesn't own the vehicles.

Who owns the so-called 'driverless' Teslas in your scenario?

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

Uber is a taxi service, serving 1 or 2 passengers. It's not technically 'ride-sharing', and Uber doesn't own the vehicles.

Who owns the so-called 'driverless' Teslas in your scenario?

Tesla would own the car and sell the rides.  Basically they could earn $350,000 of revenue over 5 years out of a Model 3 rather than sell one for $50,000 and be one and done with the revenue stream.   And most of that is revenue is all profit, they would just pay maintenance of the vehicle, setting up possibly a $250,000 profit margin on a Model 3.

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Basically they could earn $350,000 of revenue over 5 years out of a Model 3

That works out to $70 grand per year. Except the average Uber driver only makes $29K- might want to recalculate.

And until the true level 5 driverless tech is ready, tested & approved, Tesla will have to also pay drivers to drive all those unsold Model 3s. 

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

That works out to $70 grand per year. Except the average Uber driver only makes $29K- might want to recalculate.

And until the true level 5 driverless tech is ready, tested & approved, Tesla will have to also pay drivers to drive all those unsold Model 3s. 

They can make $50-70 grand per year on a level 5 car.  Tesla will never have drivers.  Uber is another company that loses money, but is worth more than Ford and GM because of the prospect of driverless cars, and then that is where the money is.

Where's the evidence for that figure?

Tesla's cannot drive autonomously right now, no car can or will within 10 years - there has to be a driver. 

If the car makes about what Uber cars make, and you have to pay a driver salary+benefits, there's no potential to earn anything.

Fantasy.

On 4/10/2021 at 5:04 PM, balthazar said:

Where's the evidence for that figure?

Tesla's cannot drive autonomously right now, no car can or will within 10 years - there has to be a driver. 

If the car makes about what Uber cars make, and you have to pay a driver salary+benefits, there's no potential to earn anything.

Fantasy.

10 rides per day at $10 per ride average cost is $100 per day, $36,500 per year.  Double that to $70k if they can get get $20 average ride faire.  Also Tesla could sell advertising on the inside of the car that is giving rides and also sell that data, so even with a $36,500 ride revenue, they could make up another $13,500 with ad sales to get them to $50k per year.  The money is there if the car drives itself.  

Investors will pump money into Tesla because of this.  When the car is self driving is the issue, and how quickly they can get there.  The 2022 S-class has level 3 autonomy, with the hardware built in for level 4, it will be level 4 in this decade, if they can do it, I don't see why Tesla can't.

^ Like I thought; no evidence, only conjecture.
Why not broadcast current movies inside, serve Starbucks and charge $50/ride? That'd be $182,500 per year per car.

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The money is there if the car drives itself.  

50 years off for full door-to-door AD. Lot can change in that much time.