Jump to content
Create New...
  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    PSA Demanding Roughly 50% Refund From GM for Opel Purchase

      PSA claims GM misrepresented Opel's emissions troubles

    PSA Group is demanding a refund from General Motors of between $711 million and $948 million stemming from the purchase of Opel by PSA.  PSA is claiming that GM misrepresented Opel's emissions reduction strategy during the due diligence negotiations.  

    EU Emissions regulations for 2021 set a target reduction of 130 g/km to 95 g/km.  Regulators can fine manufacturers $113 per vehicle per gram over the limit. Any vehicle at the 130 g/km limit today would see fines of $3,955 per car sold. 

    PSA claims that GM's plan for reaching that target relied on unrealistically high sales of the Opel Ampera-E, the European model of the US built Chevrolet Bolt EV, and extra rosy forecasts of diesel sales.  Opel loses $11,850 per Ampera-E sold. PSA has already cut sales of the Ampera-E in Norway and raised its price at least $6,700 for the rest of Europe.  Adding to the trouble are falling diesel sales in Europe as consumers move to less efficient gasoline engines. 

    Even during the sale negotiations, PSA was was aware that GM was forecasting Opel to miss the 95 g/km target by 3.7 grams.  Take the Ampera-E forecast of 20,000 vehicles out out of the picture and that number jumps to 6 g/km. Adjusting for falling diesel sales and Opel will miss its target by 10 grams. Such a large miss could result in fines approaching the entire purchase price of Opel ($1.54 billion).

    PSA is now speeding into production electric or plug-in hybrid variants of Opel's mainstay cars, with the entire lineup being converted to PSA platform architecture by 2024.

    PSA must now go through GM lawyers and arbitration to determine if they will get any refund from GM.

     

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments

    :roflmao: PSA Idiots, this was their poor checking and to cut the Ampera-E so they do not have the loss of cash on an EV and blaming GM. Tough Luck, you guys had your chance, now deal with the fall out of your poor mgmt planning.

    • Haha 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I don't blame them for being mad after reading the reasons cited.  Currently (get it?) electric cars are a bust and gas cars are the natural fallback with the sad and unnecessary persecution of diesels.

    Edited by ocnblu
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

      On 12/1/2017 at 2:02 AM, ocnblu said:

    I don't blame them after reading the reasons cited.  Currently (get it?) electric cars are a bust and gas cars are the natural fallback with the sad and unnecessary persecution of diesels.

    Expand  

    They are not a bust and you know that. Do they make a profit? No, but then neither did Petro in the early years. Everyone knows this is the chicken or egg issue and PSA Idiots are looking to blame someone for their poor review of Opel.

    Business never says or shows anything up front. Everyone tries their best to make money and somethings do not work out. EVs are the future, the changeover will be hard for some that ignor that the climate is changing and the ocnblu (get it?) will flood their home area.

    If everyone took the head in the sand approach, change nothing, create nothing keep status quo, then we would still be living in a very dark era.

    • Thanks 1
    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    If GM intentionally misled, I do think they might owe the refund.

    That said, if the stats are true, there is quite possibly the largest reason for GM dumping Opel. They still had to pay the pension costs and such, but these issues would have made Opel intensely unprofitable.

    • Agree 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

      On 12/1/2017 at 11:43 AM, ocnblu said:

    Dfelt, Mother Earth will take care of herself to our detriment.  We cannot control her.

    Expand  

    Based on your attitude towards EVs, a very Baby Boomer mentality that Women are second class and must obey the men. So in this case, Mother Earth will do as the men say! ;):P 

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

      On 12/1/2017 at 2:02 AM, ocnblu said:

    I don't blame them for being mad after reading the reasons cited.  Currently (get it?) electric cars are a bust and gas cars are the natural fallback with the sad and unnecessary persecution of diesels.

    Expand  

    You have never been to Europe, huh?

    Because if you have been to Europe, you would NEVER be saying such nonsense as 

      On 12/1/2017 at 2:02 AM, ocnblu said:

    with the sad and unnecessary persecution of diesels.

    Expand  

     

    The earliest recollection I have of Athens, Greece....is not of the Parthenon. 

    Nor of the many peripteros that were.

    Image result for periptero

    But the distinct smell of diesels...

    I smelled this in 1977, 1979, 1985, 1987, 2001 and 2003 and I have NEVER forgotten it. In fact, when a diesel truck or bus (on occasion 'cause busses are no longer diesel in Montreal...) passes me by in Montreal and I get a whiff of that smell, I immediately go back to when I was 4,6,12 and 14 years old...

    And Im not the ONLY one to think this way. A quick google search...

    https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/ooo-ooo-that-smell.cfm

     

     
      Quote

     

    I love the smell of diesel fumes ever since my first trip to Europe in '85. It takes me back instantly. 

     

    Richard on Aug 23, 99 at 1:24pm

    The stinky smell of car exhaust in Paris

     

    Vickie on Aug 24, 99 at 9:33am

    Diesel exhaust fumes...London buses!

     

    There are many smells that remind me of Europe: 
    -the smell of coffee also reminds me of Amsterdam along with the smell of fresh pastries 
    -when I smell bread baking it reminds me of Paris 
    -Chocolate reminds me of Brussels 
    -Diesel fumes remind me of London 
    -Smell of seafood reminds me of Ireland 
    -The odor of scotch, of course, reminds me of Scotland 
    -The smell of sheep reminds me of Wales 

     

    ditto Diesel fumes - Europe
    Tube roses - bellas artes, Mexico City
    Sweet Olive Trees - New Orleans
    Cedar - Mexico City

     

    Diesel exhaust reminds me of Rome and the smell of rain in the air brings back memories of Paris.

     

     

     

    Expand  

     

    This is lovely Athens, Greece and her lovely...smog

    Image result for Athens smog

     

    Please...when you want to wax poetic about your preferred energy source...do it in a more intelligent manner because the way you currently present it to me...I aint convinced! Because I also have  experiences...my very own experiences that contradict yours!  So...choose another way to teach me, because your current way is a PURE fail! 

     

     

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I haven't been to Greece (been to several other European countries, though), but on her vacation to Greece and Turkey in 2000 my sister said Athens was beautiful but very polluted.. 

    I do recall the diesel trucks, taxis, cars, etc all around me in London, Paris, Milan, Rome, Naples, etc.. 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Yup for any of us that have traveled or do travel as I do for trade shows in Europe. The Diesel smell along with the damage from acid rain especially in Germany where I go allot for work shows how damaging Diesel is.

    I love Diesel and the clean diesel we have here in America is great compared to the unhindered mother earth destroying diesel that has been sold for ever in Europe.

    This is why Europe, China are all pushing so hard on EV is the need to clean up for health and so much more.

    • Agree 3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

      On 12/1/2017 at 7:31 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I haven't been to Greece (been to several other European countries, though), but on her vacation to Greece and Turkey in 2000 my sister said Athens was beautiful but very polluted.. 

    Expand  

    Sadly. The ONLY European country I have visited is Greece. I would LOVE to see ALL of Europe one day. 

    Athens is a mixed bag.

    On one hand, she is BEAUTIFUL and MAGESTIC. That would be her old ancient historic side. 

    Then on her other side, she is very ugly and gray and poor and dirty. That would be her growth from our freedom from the Turks. From the early 1900s to the 1970s. Lots of apartments were built during this time that housed the many Greeks that flocked to her when the Turks finally left Greece for good and the poor people from the other areas of Greece went to Athens to find work again. Many wars in the 70 year span did not do any good for the economics of Athens of this time also.  And just like many European cities during this time, beauty to re-build took a back seat. 

    However, in the 1990s, when Greece was finally on her feet again, Athens rejuvenated herself and she re-built herself with modern ideas that also had aesthetics in mind. This happened in other European cities way before Athens. I think we could safely say this started in the late 1970s and 1980s for the other cities. London and Berlin and Hamburg come to mind.  

    It all came to a peak during the 2004 Olympics. Now, Athens is on another decline. Decay in certain parts of Athens is starting up again. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    So our detour into history and pollution does make me wonder when do we leave history in the books and rebuild an area for the betterment of human life compared to trying to preserve all things old?

    With that question in mind, that brings us back to our core conversation of PSA and the refund asked of GM. With this we have two questions that come to my mind off the top of many:

    1. Is it cheaper to litigate this in the courts for ever or just come to some agreement and walk away from the mess that Opel is?
    2. Knowing the history and what the European gov is doing, limiting sales of the Amp-E by Opel at a time that PSA due to their own poor emissions record needs help, Is it really the smart thing to do? Versus move forward with moving all new and future product onto a PSA platform for Hybrid / EV and sell as much as you can get from GM of a rebadge Amp-E.

    One does wonder about the mgmt skill set of PSA.

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    PSA IS NOT THAT SMART.  Blaming others before finding fault within yourself is what failures and cowards do.  PSA needs to replace diesel ASAP and tend to Opel/Vauxhall rather than sue GM for a refund that they clearly do not deserve.  Successful managers find a way to succeed regardless of circumstance rather than refight battles that they already lost.

    OR PSA can simply dissolve all operations and return the net proceeds to shareholders.  Your move, PSA.

    • Thanks 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    The only factor here is if intentional deception occurred.

    There is no way GM didn't share forecasted sales of each car. If PSA felt they were too rosey, they should have said something during due diligence.  I don't need to be an expert to know that 20k Ampera-E is a bit optimistic for a car that the new Brand's owner would lose lots of money on per car.

    • Agree 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Totally agree with Drew, Due Diligence is every person/business responsibility when buying something.

    20K Ampera-E sales is totally doable and based on the huge pre-sales that PSA has since stopped taking since they are so far behind in getting the auto to customers. I would say PSA should be looking at selling more not less since they are complaining about the pollution fine on their existing sales of new diesel / petro. Having a product line that lacks clean efficiency in Europe with all the rapid changes happening for clean air and water and then stopping sales of a very successful EV auto is just stupid.

    PSA Knee Jerk reaction and their instant response is legal action rather than how do we turn this around  asap. Clearly some questionable mgmt. on PSA, the board, etc.. 

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

      On 4/8/2019 at 5:11 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

    I wonder whatever happened to this....

    Expand  

    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/03/psa-ceo-has-no-regrets-over-opel-vauxhall-purchase/

    Seems in 2018 the CEO of PSA says he has no regrets of the purchase but nothing about the request for refund. Does say that they will be replacing the Ampera-e immediately with a Opel Corsa EV.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites



    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
    Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

    Guest
    Add a comment...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • google-news-icon.png



  • google-news-icon.png

  • Subscribe to Cheers & Gears

    Cheers and Gears Logo

    Since 2001 we've brought you real content and honest opinions, not AI-generated stuff with no feeling or opinions influenced by the manufacturers.

    Please consider subscribing. Subscriptions can be as little as $1.75 a month, and a paid subscription drops most ads.*
     

    You can view subscription options here.

    *a very limited number of ads contain special coupon deals for our members and will show

  • Similar Content

  • Posts

    • EVgo, a publicly traded national company offering public fast charging stations across North America teamed up with various auto companies like GM, Toyota and Subaru to offer fast charging stations access to customers of newly purchased electric vehicles. EVgo had 1,000 public EV stations in August of 2023, and a year later in 2024 they opened their 2,000th DC fast charging station and are on pace to finish out 2024 with 2,850 DC fast charging stations nationwide. This is 390 locations in 45 metropolitan markets across 32 states. This is part of a longstanding collaboration to expand public access to EV charging in amenity-rich locations, such as grocery stores, retail centers and city centers. EVgo believes they can offer a convenient charging experience for those that cannot charge at home or work and include those such as renters living in apartments or multifamily dwellings where there is no local charging available. The newest EVgo charging stations are five dual 350kW chargers serving 10 vehicles simultaneously. EVgo plans to take this new format forward into the future across the U.S. with their newly closed $1.25 Billion guaranteed loan from the U.S. Department of Energy ("DOE") loan program under title 17 Clean Energy Financing Program which will go to pay for building our EVgo's reliable public charging infrastructure for electric vehicles. This secured loan will allow EVgo to construct 7,500 new DC Fast charging stations nationwide. This buildout will bring EVgo's total owned and operated network to at least 10,000 fast charging stations, tripling the EVgo footprint by 2029. EVgo CEO, Badar Khan stated; “As one of the nation’s leading public fast charging providers, we are well-positioned to deploy the infrastructure needed to support both current and future domestic investments in transportation electrification. This public-private partnership will help us continue to scale our operations to serve the influx of vehicle options that will be available to American consumers in the coming years.” EV's now account for 9% of new vehicle sales and with the investments by the auto industry in EV with more and more new models coming out for sale, this will give increasing consumer confidence in the availability of public charging. This DOE loan will not only allow EVgo to expand and grow their company but will be contributing to the creation of more than 1,000 jobs in the U.S., over 700 of which will be contacted resources by EVgo that will encompass roles in construction, engineering, development, and operations and maintenance. The closing of this loan marks the conclusion of a thorough 18-month process. Terms of EVgo $1.25 Billion Guaranteed Loan This loan allows EVgo to move forward with offering innovation of next generation charging systems that EVgo will have joint development and secured domestic intellectual property rights. This new system will allow EVgo  more control over the full customer experience, streamlining the charging process as it delivers energy efficiency and cost savings. The new architecture will be rolled out nationally beginning in the second half of 2026 in partnership with Delta Electronics. This collaboration will allow the next generation of DC fast chargers to offer an all-in-one power electronics, contactless payment interface while delivering a minimum of 400kW dispensers using extended cable lengths that allow easier maneuverability to reach any charging port. EVgo is focused on giving the consumer an easy tap to pay system using current chipped credit/debit cards or giving a richer experience to those that choose to sign up for an EVgo account. This delivers on EVgo focus to serve all EV drivers, regardless of the make or model of their vehicle. The joint development of next generation charging stations will allow EVgo to implement a variety of station configurations that will serve individual EVs or those with trailers easier to maximize the customer experience. The new system will deliver a faster, more efficient charging experience by taking advantage of each EVs unique charging curves, allowing to maximize the re-charge of ones battery while reducing energy consumption and costs. View full article
    • A man was ecstatic to have entered into a relationship with a nymphomaniac. However, the nympho aspect faded away in short order while the maniac persona remained.
    • A woman went to a psychiatrist and said, "I believe I may be a nymphomaniac." The psychiatrist said, "I believe I can help you with that.  My fee is $80 an hour."
    • Interesting musical chairs I recently learned about. ITA Airways was recently acquired by Lufthansa. ITA, and preceding Alitalia, were in SkyTeam, headed up by Delta along with Air France and KLM.  ITA came across as an unwanted stepchild for the more fastidious French and Dutch.  SkyTeam is pricey, as are their award redemption tiers. With this transaction, ITA joins Star Alliance, headed up by United and with Lufthansa and Air Canada in the consortium.  I'm happy about this.  At least I am right now.
    • I don't feel religion is bad.  I have one.  It's the dogmatic "holier than thou" crowd - usually older ladies who go to socialize and gossip - that drives people away. Ukraine has the right to exist peacefully the way we've known it to be for some 30 to 40 years.  The death toll is harrowing, and it's hard to think about the children, elderly, and invalids they've killed or maimed.  And these instigators claim to believe in God.  Not.
  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • My Clubs

×
×
  • Create New...

Hey there, we noticed you're using an ad-blocker. We're a small site that is supported by ads or subscriptions. We rely on these to pay for server costs and vehicle reviews.  Please consider whitelisting us in your ad-blocker, or if you really like what you see, you can pick up one of our subscriptions for just $1.75 a month or $15 a year. It may not seem like a lot, but it goes a long way to help support real, honest content, that isn't generated by an AI bot.

See you out there.

Drew
Editor-in-Chief

This Article

Write what you are looking for and press enter or click the search icon to begin your search