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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    GM's Upcoming Electric Onslaught

      11 Vehicles, New Platform and Battery Tech


    On Wednesday, General Motors invited a number of media to their tech center in Warren, MI for their EV Day event. The company is making a big bet on electric vehicles with 11 new vehicles rolling out by 2025, featuring a new electric modular platform and battery tech. Here's what we know.

    Third-Generation Electric Vehicle Platform

    Underpinning this massive push is GM's new third-generation EV platform (BEV3). The new platform was designed to provide flexibility for different vehicle types - ranging from compact cars to pickup trucks. Battery packs are designed to be mounted beneath the passenger compartment to allow for a lower center of gravity. This results in more passenger room and improved handling. The platform also allows for different drive configurations - front, rear, or all-wheel drive - depending on the vehicle.

    Ultium Battery Technology

    Providing the electric power for these new models is what GM calls Ultium batteries. Working together with its battery partner LG Chem, the Ultium batteries are large-format, pouch-style cells that can either be stacked vertically or horizontally in packs. This will allow more flexibility for engineers to design battery packs for vehicles.

    More important is the chemistry of the batteries. GM has reduced the amount Cobalt - an element used in the making of batteries that is becoming harder to find and expensive - by seventy percent. Instead, the batteries are using aluminum. This will hopefully bring down the price of the battery packs.

    Battery capacity will range from 50 to 200 kilowatt hours - giving a projected max range of 400 miles depending on the vehicle. Level II and DC fast-charging are both supported.

    The Vehicles

    At the event, GM had 10 vehicles on display and one shown via digital renderings. The current plan is to start launching the new models beginning later this year.

    • Updated Chevrolet Bolt: The first vehicle to be launched in this offensive. It will get an updated interior with a more premium dash.
    • Chevrolet Bolt EUV: The crossover-variant of the Bolt, it is about five-inches longer and rides on a wheelbase that has been stretched by three inches. An updated roofline reportedly eliminates the small front windows on the Bolt. The EUV will also be the first model outside of Cadillac to get Super Cruise.
    • Chevrolet Midsize Crossover: About the same size as the Blazer, this model has an aggressive design and features a low roofline. A pair of 18-inch multimedia displays dominate the interior.
    • Chevrolet Full-Size Truck: This was the model only shown in digital renderings according to those who were at the event. It will complement the Silverado and be aimed at those who want something to be used on a job site - not like the upcoming GMC Hummer Truck or Rivian which are aimed more at lifestyle folks. This model is expected to arrive in 2025.
    • Buick Crossover and SUV: These two models didn't have a name and were wearing a design that was described by the Detroit Free Press as a "vaguely European look". 
    • GMC Hummer Truck: This will only be available in a crew-cab configuration with a five-foot bed. The design will be utilitarian and boxy. Inside, two large screens will serve as the instrument cluster and infotainment system. Don't expect any leather as many of materials used inside will be made from recycled materials. The truck will also have removable roof panels (like the Jeep Wrangler, that can be stored in the front trunk.
    • GMC Hummer SUV: Basically the same as the truck, albeit using a shorter wheelbase.
    • Cadillac Lyriq: We have seen teasers of this model last year and Cadillac dropped another this week showing off the silhouette - reminding us some crossovers from Jaguar and Porsche. The vehicle is wide and rides on 23-inch wheels. Size-wise, it is similar to the XT5. The interior boasts a 34-inch-wide high-def screen and seating for four, though the production model may have seating for five.
    • Cadillac Celestiq: A new four-door flagship sedan that has a long front end and a fastback rear according to those who saw the clay model. It will be hand-built and carry a six-figure pricetag.
    • Cadillac Large SUV: About the size of an Escalade, it be complementary vehicle to it. The model will have a more traditional design than the other Cadillac EVs. Inside, it will boast large screens up front and three-rows of seating.

    Source: Roadshow, Detroit Free Press, The Drive, General Motors
    Press Release is on Page 2


    GM Reveals New Ultium Batteries and a Flexible Global Platform to Rapidly Grow its EV Portfolio

    WARREN, Mich. – Starting today, General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) is gathering hundreds of employees, dealers, investors, analysts, media and policymakers to share details of its strategy to grow the company’s electric vehicle (EV) sales quickly, efficiently and profitably.

    “Our team accepted the challenge to transform product development at GM and position our company for an all-electric future,” said Mary Barra, GM chairman and CEO. “What we have done is build a multi-brand, multi-segment EV strategy with economies of scale that rival our full-size truck business with much less complexity and even more flexibility.”

    The heart of GM’s strategy is a modular propulsion system and a highly flexible, third-generation global EV platform powered by proprietary Ultium batteries. They will allow the company to compete for nearly every customer in the market today, whether they are looking for affordable transportation, a luxury experience, work trucks or a high-performance machine.

    “Thousands of GM scientists, engineers and designers are working to execute an historic reinvention of the company,” said GM President Mark Reuss. “They are on the cusp of delivering a profitable EV business that can satisfy millions of customers.”

    Ultium Batteries and Propulsion System Highlights

    • GM’s new Ultium batteries are unique in the industry because the large-format, pouch-style cells can be stacked vertically or horizontally inside the battery pack. This allows engineers to optimize battery energy storage and layout for each vehicle design.
    • Ultium energy options range from 50 to 200 kWh, which could enable a GM-estimated range up to 400 miles or more on a full charge with 0 to 60 mph acceleration as low as 3 seconds. Motors designed in-house will support front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive and performance all-wheel drive applications.
    • Ultium-powered EVs are designed for Level 2 and DC fast charging. Most will have 400-volt battery packs and up to 200 kW fast-charging capability while our truck platform will have 800-volt battery packs and 350 kW fast-charging capability.

    GM’s flexible, modular approach to EV development will drive significant economies of scale and create new revenue opportunities, including: 

    • Continuous Improvement in Battery Costs: GM’s joint venture with LG Chem will drive battery cell costs below $100/kWh. The cells use a proprietary low cobalt chemistry and ongoing technological and manufacturing breakthroughs will drive costs even lower.
    • Flexibility: GM’s all-new global platform is flexible enough to build a wide range of trucks, SUVs, crossovers, cars and commercial vehicles with outstanding design, performance, packaging, range and affordability.
    • Capital Efficiency: GM can spend less capital to scale its EV business because it is able to leverage existing property, including land, buildings, tools and production equipment such as body shops and paint shops.
    • Complexity Reduction: The vehicle and propulsion systems were designed together to minimize complexity and part counts beyond today’s EVs, which are less complex than conventional vehicles powered by internal combustion engines. For example, GM plans 19 different battery and drive unit configurations initially, compared with 550 internal combustion powertrain combinations available today.
    • Rising Customer Acceptance: Third-party forecasters expect U.S. EV volumes to more than double from 2025 to 2030 to about 3 million units on average. GM believes volumes could be materially higher as more EVs are launched in popular segments, charging networks grow and the total cost of ownership to consumers continues to fall.
    • New Sources of Revenue: By vertically integrating the manufacture of battery cells, the company can reach beyond its own fleet and license technology to others.

    The first generation of GM’s future EV program will be profitable. The initial programs will pave the way for further accretive growth. GM’s technology can be scaled to meet customer demand much higher than the more than 1 million global sales the company expects mid-decade.

    Upcoming Launches and Reveals

    Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick will all be launching new EVs starting this year. The next new Chevrolet EV will be a new version of the Bolt EV, launching in late 2020, followed by the 2022 Bolt EUV, launching Summer 2021. The Bolt EUV will be the first vehicle outside of the Cadillac brand to feature Super Cruise, the industry's first true hands-free driving technology for the highway, which GM will expand to 22 vehicles by 2023, including 10 by next year.

    The Cruise Origin, a self-driving, electric shared vehicle, shown to the public in January 2020 in San Francisco, was the first product revealed using GM’s third generation EV platform and Ultium batteries. Next will be the Cadillac Lyriq luxury SUV in April. Details about its launch will be shared then. The reveal of the Ultium-powered GMC HUMMER EV will follow on May 20. Production is expected to begin in Fall 2021 at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, GM’s first assembly plant 100 percent dedicated to EV production.

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    If it isn't in production and can't be purchased, can't pass crash safety standards, can't meet emissions requirements, it isn't real. It's just another fantasy concept vehicle. It's just a piece of art. 

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    14 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    But this is GM we are talking about..they always figure out how to cheap out... beancounters won't let them go all out.

    Yea, one has leather from a skin of unicorns, wood from the top of Everest and was build by virgins and the other one will have doorknobs from Silverado and switches from Cruise.

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    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    If it isn't in production and can't be purchased, can't pass crash safety standards, can't meet emissions requirements, it isn't real. It's just another fantasy concept vehicle. It's just a piece of art. 

    But that's exactly what I'm advocating to answer this challenge ; put the concepts into production. If a lame-ass Bentley can pull in $200K with their dated styling, an Escala could do the same.

    Cadillac hasn't hand-built a limited run car in a very long time, but it's certainly not beyond their capabilities. I think the '21 Escalade interior proves they can engineer/design something class-leading and put it into production in modern times.

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    17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    But that's exactly what I'm advocating to answer this challenge ; put the concepts into production. If a lame-ass Bentley can pull in $200K with their dated styling, an Escala could do the same.

    Cadillac hasn't hand-built a limited run car in a very long time, but it's certainly not beyond their capabilities. I think the '21 Escalade interior proves they can engineer/design something class-leading and put it into production in modern times.

    I have my doubts they can put together an interior like this "worthy" of a 200k price tag.

    https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-bentley-flying-spur-interior-how-its-made/

     

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    It is a concept car, but it isn't even all that nice.   Then you have issues of powertrain, which they could put 1000 electric horsepower and a big battery and solve that, but you still have to have a road pre-scan suspension that they don't have, you need level 3 autonomy which they don't have now.  That is a lot to come up with in a fews years for a low volume product.  

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    6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    One says Bentley on it for starters.

    (Looks for a Benz interior that matches the Bentley yet cant find anything which makes the Cadillac comparison completely nonsensical and dumb quite honestly)

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    29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It is a concept car, but it isn't even all that nice.   Then you have issues of powertrain, which they could put 1000 electric horsepower and a big battery and solve that, but you still have to have a road pre-scan suspension that they don't have, you need level 3 autonomy which they don't have now.  That is a lot to come up with in a fews years for a low volume product.  

    It's 'understated finesse', not 'diamond-tufted whore house'.
    I see the Escala doesn't have the horrid cheap plastic seat surrounds mercedes puts in their s-classes;  that Escala piece right there is awesome. Bentley does the same hard plastic on their seats, too.

    Bentley interiors do come off as nice / 'whore house lite', but everything looks heavy & bloated. Details could be better integrated; for the money it just isn't worth it. There absolutely are elements I like & seem very appropriate in the class tho.

    The lightness of the Escala's design is so airy & fresh, plus the audacity to put cloth in a top-tier luxury car; so seldom seen. It shakes some of the cobwebs out of modern top-tier luxury car thinking. I like it, and I think it has enormous potential for the upcoming 'Fleetwood'.

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    26 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    (Looks for a Benz interior that matches the Bentley yet cant find anything which makes the Cadillac comparison completely nonsensical and dumb quite honestly)

    spacer.png

    spacer.png

     

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    We are all smack talking Cadillac for not being able to sell us a high end 200 000 dollar car....

    Bean counter arguments and tooo long ago history that Cadillac builders somehow forgot how to stitch a phoquing seam on leather....to whale penis blubber arguments that seem to be on other "luxury" vehicles...

    https://www.wired.com/2009/11/dartz/

    Quote

     

    What's the world coming to when you can get your $1.45 million bulletproof SUV with gold trim, a ridiculously expensive Vertu cellphone and three bottles of premium vodka, but you can't get the whale-penis-skin interior?

    We have environmentalists and Pamela Anderson to thank for this.

    This bizarre story starts in Russia with a company called Dartz, which recently unveiled the Pombron Monaco Red Diamond Edition SUV. Yes, that's the official name of this four-ton motorized bank vault.

     

     

    Yet we forget that the Celestiq WILL be handbuilt...

    We could say that GM beancounters ALWAYS hamstring stuff...yet...the CELESTIQ WILL BE HANDBUILT.... 

    You'd think that the beancounters will allow the necessary funds to allow this to happen the way it should, right?

    I mean...ITS GONNA BE HANDBUILT...

    Its GONNA BE A BOUTIQUE vehicle, non? 

    Aint Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari and the like BOUTIQUE manufacturers???

    Well...the Celestiq WILL be the same. This will NOT be mass produced. It will be on order to SPECIFIC...PERSONALIZED interiors...

    THIS is going back to how Cadillac, Duesenberg, Lincolns and ALL luxury cars were made...including the body. An owner chose the coach builder then... 

    Anyway...

    There is a lot of shyte talking on a car that is not even out yet.

    Please, if we are gonna shyte on the Celestiq, at least wait until it actually comes out for sale.Then we can shyte on it.

    But I know one thing...

    Looking at the Corvette C8....for the BILLIONTH time... 

    At what the engineers ACCOMPLISHED with THAT platform...at that PHOQUING PRICE POINT!!!

    ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT:

    1. GM ENGINEERS BRING IT!!!

    2. BEANCOUNTERS DONT EXERCISE THEIR FULL MIGHT ON THE PRODUCTS ANYMORE, RIGHT???!!!

    3. ITS A CADILLAC.  THAT MEANS GOING FORWARD...IT GOING TO BE A CADILLAC.

    LOOK AT THE 2021 ESCALADE'S INTERIOR

    PS:

    These are not 200 000 dollar Mercedes cars...

    Funny...nobody bats an eye lid for this shyte that Mercedes is peddling...RIGHT NOW...in the USofA.

    Image result for mercedes a class

    Image result for mercedes cla 250

    Image result for mercedes gla 250

     

    Cadillac is going UPSCALE and we find problems.

    Mercedes is continuing to go DOWNSCALE...yet we are fine with that...

    Something is wrong with our thinking!!! 

    Why arent we bitching at Mercedes beancounting ways???

    The CLA has a shyte reliabilty problem. The interior is cheap cheap cheap...

    THIS is a car that was released but a few years ago...

    For the second time...at least...in the new millennium....Mercedes Benz has SHYTE on their image. 

    Anybody remember THIS Cimarron equivalent?

    I DO!!!

    Image result for Mercedes C class hatchback

    Funny though....Mercedes GETS A PASS???!!!

    I DONT THINK SO!!!

    There is NO justification for Mercedes.

    THESE ARE WORSE THAN WHAT CADILLAC HAS EVER DONE!!!

    CIMARRON INCLUDED!!!

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    20 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Yet we forget that the Celestiq WILL be handbuilt...

     

    Please, if we are gonna shyte on the Celestiq, at least wait until it actually comes out for sale.Then we can shyte on it.

     

    Looking at the Corvette C8....for the BILLIONTH time... 

     

    ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT:

    1. GM ENGINEERS BRING IT!!!

    2. BEANCOUNTERS DONT EXERCISE THEIR FULL MIGHT ON THE PRODUCTS ANYMORE, RIGHT???!!!

    3. ITS A CADILLAC.  THAT MEANS GOING FORWARD...IT GOING TO BE A CADILLAC.

    LOOK AT THE 2021 ESCALADE'S INTERIOR

     

    The G-wagen is hand built too. Not sure if that matters at all for sales.

    Sure we can wait til it gets out.

    The C8 is slower than a Mercedes sedan around the Nurburgring.  

    1.  The GM engineers didn't bring enough, I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

    2.  They might...

    3.  It's better than anything they did in the past, but it is probably like Audi Q7 level. 

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    20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The G-wagen is hand built too. Not sure if that matters at all for sales.

    Sure we can wait til it gets out.

    The C8 is slower than a Mercedes sedan around the Nurburgring.  

    1.  The GM engineers didn't bring enough, I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

    2.  They might...

    3.  It's better than anything they did in the past, but it is probably like Audi Q7 level. 

    BASE CORVETTE

    BASE CORVETTE

    BASE CORVETTE

    BASE CORVETTE

    BASE CORVETTE

    BASE CORVETTE

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

    65 000 DOLLARS Z51 Pack

     

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

    THE MERCEDES IS AN AMG

     

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    100 000 plus DOLLARS

    https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-nurburgring-lap-time/

     

    Quote

     

    The new mid-engine Vette breathes down some pricey exotics' necks around the 'Ring.

    We've tested the new 2020 Chevrolet Corvette C8, we've compared it to rivals, and we examined every inch of its massively improved interior. But there's still one thing we didn't know about the first-ever mid-engine Vette until now: How quickly can it lap the famed Nürburgring circuit in Germany? A new video finally answers the question of how the Corvette performs on the benchmark track's hairy undulations and blind corners: 7:29.9.

     

     

    With an extra 171 horsepower and 205 some odd torque with AWD...the Vette is NATURALLY ASPIRATED...and the AMG sedan is TURBO...(HP 630 hp; Torque 664 lb-ft) and 40 000 dollars more...all 4 for  4 phoquing seconds on a 16 mile course?   

    when you ALSO TROLLED

    Quote

     

    AMG One will happen, Mercedes is going to be in Formula 1 another 10 years that they committed to, so the R&D is already there.

    Also the Tesla will be heavy,  the Corvette needs to lose a 1,000 lbs of weight and double the horsepower to even get close to an AMG One.  I don’t know where GM engineers find 1,000 lbs to cut out of a C8 when the only way they know how add power is displacement and superchargers which adds more weight.

     

     

    Like...are you gonna shut up and STOP with the BULLSHYTE???!!!!

    Im kinda had it with this nonsense back and forth!!!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I want Celestique to be faster around a track than a C8.

    Why- because the MBSMayS63Bach is faster around a track than the MBAMGGTS63GTS??

    Talk about a stupid metric.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Was Cadillac sufficiently separate from Corporate when they developed the Escalade interior and the Blackwing 4.2TT?

    Build it, or one on the same level

    Screen Shot 2020-03-18 at 7.00.56 PM.png

    THAT should have been the CT6 interior five years ago.  Hopefully Cadillac will be wise enough to put this interior into its successors.

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    @smk4565

    You contend yourself with this AMG car  at the mid 50 000 dollar range...

    Image result for AMG Mercedes GLA

    and Ill contend myself with this at 65 000...

    Image result for Corvette C8

     

    And Ill be laughing at you thinking you got a better, faster, more luxurious car for the price...

    PS: I could probably fit more stuff in the Vette too...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    4 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    THAT should have been the CT6 interior five years ago.  Hopefully Cadillac will be wise enough to put this interior into its successors.

    Yeah yeah...

    We all know the argument....

    Its a tired old argument.

    Meanwhile in 2021 going forward

    AT GM

    Image result for Corvette C8

    Image result for Corvette C8 interior

    At Cadillac

    Image result for 2021 cadillac escalade interior

     

    CELESTIQ WILL BE HANDBUILT

    Now...lets stop with the useless back and forth to a vehicle that looks like this still

    Image result for Celestiq handbuilt

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    OldsHurst, you claimed the Corvette was world beating performance and has world beating engineering.  Put the C8 against a Huracan or 911 GT2 that can do the Nurburgring ring in 6:50 or less and it is a 40-45 second gap.  
     

    The CT6 Blackwing should have had lap times similar to the C8.  That should have been a Cadillac’s target if the car were still around.

    I think the Corvette has great bang for the buck, for $70k it is a hell of a lot of performance and the Corvette has always had great performance per dollar.  But world beater it is not, nor should it be because it is a Chevy.  GM should have come up with a super car above Corvette years ago, or at least should start now if they want to pump some life into the Cadillac brand.  
     

    Otherwise Cadillac should abandon all performance and be the opposite of sporty like a discount Rolls Royce and build isolation chambers that float over the road and have self driving.  And that might be a good play for the future.

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    @smk4565

    You contend yourself with this AMG car  at the mid 50 000 dollar range...

    Image result for AMG Mercedes GLA

    and Ill contend myself with this at 65 000...

    Image result for Corvette C8

     

    And Ill be laughing at you thinking you got a better, faster, more luxurious car for the price...

    PS: I could probably fit more stuff in the Vette too...

    Not sure about luxury, but performance for price is outstanding because the C8 on the Nurburgring is very close to the Porsche Cayman GT4, faster than the GTS and faster than a base AMG Coupe, close to a BMW M4 GTS but way cheaper.  Likewise compared to a Nissan GT-R which is slightly quicker but got stupid expensive.  Most of the cars with C8 performance are around $100-120k  and not $70-80k as most Corvettes would be.  It is a win for the Corvette in that regard.

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    10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    I have my doubts they can put together an interior like this "worthy" of a 200k price tag.

    https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-bentley-flying-spur-interior-how-its-made/

     

    MEH, Honestly that interior reminds me of the Movie "Best Little Whore House in Texas".

    Way over done and not luxury reserved, but luxury bitch Kardashin. Pass on that crapy interior, no matter how many people it took by hand to build. Not Impressed.

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    So why are you comparing a  100 000 dollar top of the line AMG with a BASE Vette?  That is almost double the price.  And dont forget the 170 HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque MORE on it.

    Also...its an AMG.  Its a tuned car tuned for...ultimate performance by a PERFORMANCE arm of Mercedes...

    The Vette...is a BASE Corvette STRAIGHT from the factory. No enhancements of ANY kind. "Crappy" factory exhaust. "Crappy" factory engine tuning meant to appease insurance companies, EPA, reliability for daily driven duties and track use, except it aint a full on track car.  "Crappy" factory tires meant for public streets and highways that should last at least 50 000 miles of normal daily driving in normal weather, including rain, for what they are worth as sports car tires for the street that also cater to road noise inside the cabin.  "Crappy" factory brakes.   

    Notice "crappy" is in quotations... "  "   

    These are still the BASE FACTORY stuff on the BASE Corvette.  BASE price of 59 995. Z51 I think starts at 64 995. That would be the BASE track Stingray.  

    24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Not sure about luxury, but performance for price is outstanding because the C8 on the Nurburgring is very close to the Porsche Cayman GT4, faster than the GTS and faster than a base AMG Coupe, close to a BMW M4 GTS but way cheaper.  Likewise compared to a Nissan GT-R which is slightly quicker but got stupid expensive.  Most of the cars with C8 performance are around $100-120k  and not $70-80k as most Corvettes would be.  It is a win for the Corvette in that regard.

    That post....its like you turned a 180 degree turn..

    Dont forget, the C8 Corvette has another 2 levels to go.  A Z06 equivalent  and a ZR1 equivalent.  And those are CONFIRMED by Chevrolet.  The Z06 will soon be revealed in the coming months.  June, July....

    The Corvette ALWAYS punched above its price tag. And NOW...there is LITERALLY NOTHING ANYBODY could whine about the C8.  ALL the things that the whiners complained about the Corvette's "shortcomings" all have been addressed and fixed.  

    There is a new one...no manual transmission...   You cant please everybody. Phoque-em!

    Regardless...   

    The C8 Corvette shows what GM can do. What Cadillac could do. What Chevy already does. 

    The C8 Corvette is PROOF that the beancounters no longer impose cheapness and the C8 Corvette shows where GM's strategy and future product is at...

    This of course is my opinion and you are entitled to yours. But when you discuss with me....keep things equal and level. I do that. You SHOULD do it too. 

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    OldsHurst, you claimed the Corvette was world beating performance and has world beating engineering.  Put the C8 against a Huracan or 911 GT2 that can do the Nurburgring ring in 6:50 or less and it is a 40-45 second gap.  

    I just saw that...   

    Huracan and a 911 GT2?

    A GT2?

    THAT is a track focused, top of the line Porsche. It costs 300 000 dollars.  

    A Huracan is also 250 000.  

    The Lambo has got a 550 some odd HP...

    You are really phoqued in the head....

     

    PS...the Vette engineers benchmarked  the GT2.   The Z06 is gonna be launched. WHEN it beats the performance numbers of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say then?   And even if the Z06 comes close but does not beat the GT2 RS, but has a price tag lwess than half of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say?

    A GT RS is 300 000 dollars....the Z06 will be around 120 000...

    You really are phoqued in the head...

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    3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I just saw that...   

    Huracan and a 911 GT2?

    A GT2?

    THAT is a track focused, top of the line Porsche. It costs 300 000 dollars.  

    A Huracan is also 250 000.  

    The Lambo has got a 550 some odd HP...

    You are really phoqued in the head....

     

    PS...the Vette engineers benchmarked  the GT2.   The Z06 is gonna be launched. WHEN it beats the performance numbers of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say then?   And even if the Z06 comes close but does not beat the GT2 RS, but has a price tag lwess than half of the GT2 RS...what are you gonna say?

    A GT RS is 300 000 dollars....the Z06 will be around 120 000...

    You really are phoqued in the head...

    Z06 won’t beat a 912 GT2, but they should set the ZR1’s goal to be Huracan or Aventador fast because those are old cars.  Even if it means the ZR1 is $300,000.  If Corvette wants to play with the big boys, that is where they are.

     AMG has a GT73 sedan coming, so they will beat their own 4-door lap record, they have a next gen SL73 that is a sports car not a retiree mobile that the current SL is (although I like the current SL, give me luxury over performance) and the next gen AMG GT coupes are all wheel drive so they’ll be faster than the current one.

    If the Corvette wants to play up there then bring it on, but if not then I don’t want to hear GM engineers saying it has super car performance when it doesn’t, at least not yet.

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    There are 2 last gen Corvettes faster than both the MBAMGGTS63 and the MBSLSAMGBS.
    Faster than the lexus FLA Nurburgring Package, the 911 Turbo, the 911 GT2, the 911 GT3, and the ferrari 488GTB. Among others.

    Corvette is already in super car territory. It's brought it on.
    But it's going to bring it on so very much harder with the C8.

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    Interesting video on the comparison of GM EVs to Tesla.

    Interesting read that GM has started the retooling of the Detroit-Hamtramck plant.

    https://electrek.co/2020/03/17/gm-starts-retooling-its-detroit-plant-for-electric-vehicles-despite-coronavirus/

    Quote: 

    I’d like to thank the membership of Local 22, who has been committed to building cars, whether it’s the end of the CT6 and the Impala, and definitely committed to building all-electric vehicles here. Every day, they come to work to do the right thing for General Motors and do the right thing for their families.

    I just want to thank that membership out there, that comes to work every day no matter what it is, with their heads held high to build quality vehicles for General Motors.

    We are going to do any and everything it takes to make this possible.

     This is an interesting read by Forbes on why Traditional auto makers will struggle with EVs compared to Tesla and up coming Rivian.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2020/03/15/tesla-vs-everyone-else-why-electric-cars-from-traditional-carmakers-will-continue-to-struggle-against-the-model-3-model-y-in-the-us/#15afe50c9d3a

     

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    5 hours ago, balthazar said:

    There are 2 last gen Corvettes faster than both the MBAMGGTS63 and the MBSLSAMGBS.
    Faster than the lexus FLA Nurburgring Package, the 911 Turbo, the 911 GT2, the 911 GT3, and the ferrari 488GTB. Among others.

    Corvette is already in super car territory. It's brought it on.
    But it's going to bring it on so very much harder with the C8.

    The AMG GT R Pro which is a front engine, rear drive coupe, same as a C7,  is faster than the 755 hp ZR1.  And I know it is faster because it had the record for front engine rear drive car.

    The 911 GT2 RS has like a 6:47 Nurburgring time which is also the old generation since the new 911 is out.  Let’s see the C8 in the 6’s.

    All GM plants are closed now.  So one wonders what delays will happen with development cycle of future product.  And what production delays will occur,  Corvette is done for 2020 orders.

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    11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The AMG GT R Pro which is a front engine, rear drive coupe, same as a C7,  is faster than the 755 hp ZR1.  And I know it is faster because it had the record for front engine rear drive car.

    The 911 GT2 RS has like a 6:47 Nurburgring time which is also the old generation since the new 911 is out.  Let’s see the C8 in the 6’s.

    All GM plants are closed now.  So one wonders what delays will happen with development cycle of future product.  And what production delays will occur,  Corvette is done for 2020 orders.

    Mercedes Benz Employees shut down the Spain plant as MB had no plans on how to keep the workers safe. MB has now stated 2020 warning for profits and possible losses due to the need to shut down assembly plants. This is not just a GM and Ford worry issue. But doing the right thing to protect humanity.

    MB will see a further delay in getting out their first EV for real time sales and NO I am not going to accept that the Compliance EV MB sold in select markets was their first.

    MB has NO EVs for sale. As such, they also are going to have reduced if not flat out no more sales of select models as they close plants and then cut models.

    Good chance you will not see many of the AMG models around by summer.

    https://www.al.com/business/2020/03/work-continues-at-mercedes-benz-plant-but-supply-chain-could-be-affected.html

    Per this story, Daimler has stopped work at all European plants and moved their US plant to a 6hr shift and admitted that parts are getting short, will probably have to stop production.

    Honda has stopped all work,  as well as Hyundai.

    Daimler is going to be hurting for cash as they still have fines and fees to pay for their Diesel gate mess. I am thinking we will see MB have to push out by 1 if not 2 years their EVs coming to market.

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    Daimler has more cash than GM does.  But all automakers are going to take huge hits this year, I suspect sales will go down 20% for the market this year.

    Daimler also can't push EV's out, they need them to avoid CO2 fines. And the EQ S and EQ E are already pretty deep into testing, they are going to be ready for production in 2021.  

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Daimler has more cash than GM does.  But all automakers are going to take huge hits this year, I suspect sales will go down 20% for the market this year.

    Daimler also can't push EV's out, they need them to avoid CO2 fines. And the EQ S and EQ E are already pretty deep into testing, they are going to be ready for production in 2021.  

    Would not be the first company to pay fees to deal with CO2. Plenty of companies have paid them including Daimler.

    Second, Daimler DOES NOT have more Cash on Hand than GM. You really need to check your FACTS before you state such Nonsense.

    GM - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/cash-on-hand

    image.png

    Daimler - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DDAIF/daimler-ag/cash-on-hand

    image.png

    Daimler had break even in 2018 due to Diesel gate and is bleeding cash.

    Daimler has more assets than GM, but that is too be expected. Right now Daimler is working to increase cash.

    If ya DO NOT LIKE the chart above, here is another one that shows them with even more detail.

    Daimler - https://ycharts.com/companies/DDAIF/free_cash_flow

    image.png

    You could say they have more cash and Equivalent when you look at their released report.

    https://annualreport.daimler.com/ar2019/financial-statements/cash-flow-statement

    image.png

    That is all wiped out when you take into account their expenses of Fines which does wipe this out. THEY ARE BLEEDING MONEY!

    Wanna Compare it to GM's Cash on hand - Far more Money Than Daimler Compare the Positives from GM to all the negatives from Daimler from https://ycharts.com/companies/GM/cash_on_hand

    image.png

    Here is GM's 2019 Yearly Report. I give ya the snapshot view.

    https://investor.gm.com/static-files/16cada71-8b97-4222-98b2-a8ddb685c402

    image.png

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    41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Daimler had $26.775 billion cash to end 2019, GM had 23.243, thus Daimler has more as per Yahoo Finance. 

    Will that be true 12-18 months from now?  How about six months from now?  GM does NOT have a DieselGate problem.  There may be another shoe to drop for Daimler concerning that alone.

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    47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Daimler had $26.775 billion cash to end 2019, GM had 23.243, thus Daimler has more as per Yahoo Finance. 

    Love how you ignore posting any links to back yourself up. Let me help you with correcting your CONFUSED info.

    Daimler ended 2019 according to Yahoo finance with a NEGATIVE -$2,947,000 or negative 2.9 billion cash flow.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DDAIF/cash-flow/

    image.png

    By Balance Sheet, Daimler has $26.775 billion cash on hand. Yet they are burning through it and before this year is out, much of this will disappear.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DDAIF/balance-sheet?p=DDAIF

    image.png

    Since you like Yahoo, lets look at the numbers of GM:

    Cash Flow - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GM/cash-flow?p=GM

    GM is Negative $8.9 Billion

    image.png

    Balance Sheet - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GM/balance-sheet?p=GM

    GM is $23.2 billion in cash.

    image.png

    So Yes, Daimler has $3 billion more cash than GM.

    Daimler has $74 billion more than GM in total Assets.

    That is a small amount in regards to GM NOT having to pay Diesel Gate where Daimler will and that is still Billions to come. Now with Coronavirus shutting the world down, get ready for Depression and the cost of it. 

    I would not bet on Daimler doing any better than GM even with EVs in testing, Daimler has NOT delivered selling them yet where GM has been selling the Bolt for a few years. 

    One Cannot call success when nothing has been delivered YET!

    2020 is INTERESTING TIMES!

    There is a difference between Cash Flow and Cash on Hand and you need to be clear on that when discussing financials.

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    Honestly, F Daimler and the trolling. This is about GM and their EV plans and if the Daimler trolls can’t stick to the subject then, maybe they should start their own thread about Daimler’s EV plans. It’ll be a short thread, mind you, since their plans seem to always get pushed back where EVs are concerned but it’s worth a shot.

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    Cool read on the thoughts and focus of GM's EV plans through 2025.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-note-general-motors-ev-154903848.html

    The above link talks about GM's plans, what other auto makers are doing and where they see the market going.

    https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/gm-ev-charging-network/

    Interesting take on GM's own charging network and the lack of investing in it themselves and how it could end up hurting GM. Very interesting read as well.

    It will be interesting to see how the EV rollouts play out with the global pandemic of Coronavirus and how they get work done.

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    10 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Cool read on the thoughts and focus of GM's EV plans through 2025.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-note-general-motors-ev-154903848.html

    The above link talks about GM's plans, what other auto makers are doing and where they see the market going.

    https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/gm-ev-charging-network/

    Interesting take on GM's own charging network and the lack of investing in it themselves and how it could end up hurting GM. Very interesting read as well.

    It will be interesting to see how the EV rollouts play out with the global pandemic of Coronavirus and how they get work done.

    Good read. if there is not a proper network put into place, then this will be just another fail. Hopefully they will get that part figured out instead of just pissing away money with only half a plan.

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    I don’t see why an auto maker needs their own charging network when they don’t have their own gas stations.  You’d think there would be monopoly or anti trust law issues is a car maker owned gas stations.

    Current gas stations will put in EV chargers or restaurants and malls will, etc.   And I imagine a lot of gas stations as we know them today will be gone in 10-15 years.

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don’t see why an auto maker needs their own charging network when they don’t have their own gas stations.  You’d think there would be monopoly or anti trust law issues is a car maker owned gas stations.

    Current gas stations will put in EV chargers or restaurants and malls will, etc.   And I imagine a lot of gas stations as we know them today will be gone in 10-15 years.

    Bigger question to ask is why is the power companies not jumping on this as it would increase their income potential.

    It is understandable why gas companies would not do this as they want EVs dead and just burn baby burn along with Drill baby Drill and Pump Baby Pump.

    For auto companies, there is the money making capabilities of having your own charging network. I would think local power companies would love to have a charging network as an additional source of income.

    That is why Tesla built there network of super chargers to support their auto's and it makes sense for an auto company to build a network so there is an income potential. 

    A bigger question is how much income potential to cost is there. Once people can get the type of auto they want in EV format and change their thinking to plugging in at home or having a wireless pad they drive over to charge from, the income potential for chargers changes much lower I would think.

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    7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    For auto companies, there is the money making capabilities of having your own charging network. I would think local power companies would love to have a charging network as an additional source of income.

    That is why Tesla built there network of super chargers to support their auto's and it makes sense for an auto company to build a network so there is an income potential. 

    A bigger question is how much income potential to cost is there.

    You were confusing revenue with profit there, but you correctly stated it with the last line. If you can take in $1000/day in revenue, but the COST of doing so is $1250, would you do it?

    Have we seen any specifics on Tesla supercharger's bottom line? I doubt it's profitable given Tesla's miserable balance sheet, but I've no idea... other than the fact if it were a 'red hot income deal'- plenty of companies would be getting into them, rather than a handful. The logistics, legalese and variables in local costs could be considerable and off-putting.

    Telsa was FORCED to install these early on to allay EV range fears. I question strongly whether they're ultimately necessary beyond interstates.

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    28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    You were confusing revenue with profit there, but you correctly stated it with the last line. If you can take in $1000/day in revenue, but the COST of doing so is $1250, would you do it?

    Have we seen any specifics on Tesla supercharger's bottom line? I doubt it's profitable given Tesla's miserable balance sheet, but I've no idea... other than the fact if it were a 'red hot income deal'- plenty of companies would be getting into them, rather than a handful. The logistics, legalese and variables in local costs could be considerable and off-putting.

    Telsa was FORCED to install these early on to allay EV range fears. I question strongly whether they're ultimately necessary beyond interstates.

    Thank you, for understanding my thoughts, and yes, mixing up revenue with profit.

    In regards to your last statement, Tesla has stated they will never have it as a profit center but as a break even center that supports their auto industry products.

    Interesting read: https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

    Here is another discussion on it in the Tesla Motor Club forum asking if charging networks can ever be profitable and what is the cost. Seems $3,500 is the cost per month for a traditional charging station. I do wonder how they truly justify that cost. Yet, still an interesting read.

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/can-the-supercharger-network-be-profitable.154320/

    Good read on Electrify America and if they are making money.

    https://technotes.seastrom.com/2020/03/01/electrify-america.html

    Plus a comparison with the Tesla network. Very interesting read.

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    The money to be made is by the fast food and fast station hybrid business that exist now like Sheetz or Wa-Wa.  If you have a coffee bar, soda fountain , fast food restaurant, convenient store type set up that draws traffic anyway, where as before maybe half the customers get gas and leave, now they have to let their EV charge.  So Sheetz can charge whatever per KWH or electric the person puts in their car and has them there for 20-30 minutes with nothing to do except spend money on coffee, lunch, etc.

    Although I think 80% of EV charting will happen at home, if not more.  The vast majority of cars sit for 12 hours consecutive every day, plenty of time to charge at home.

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    6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The money to be made is by the fast food and fast station hybrid business that exist now like Sheetz or Wa-Wa.  If you have a coffee bar, soda fountain , fast food restaurant, convenient store type set up that draws traffic anyway, where as before maybe half the customers get gas and leave, now they have to let their EV charge.  So Sheetz can charge whatever per KWH or electric the person puts in their car and has them there for 20-30 minutes with nothing to do except spend money on coffee, lunch, etc.

    Although I think 80% of EV charting will happen at home, if not more.  The vast majority of cars sit for 12 hours consecutive every day, plenty of time to charge at home.

    Gas stations have operated that way for over a century.  Surely WaWa can do the same with EVs.

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