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The FedEx trucks look good, and I think making more trucks/vans EV will go a long way to reducing emissions and noise in cities and neighborhoods.

Still not a fan of the new GM logo, just like I am not a fan of the Mercedes "EQS" font, the classic is better.

What GM hasn't mentioned in their EV future, is are they going to fix their terrible interiors and build quality?  Because every car company is going to build EV's,  so the current market leaders, I think will stay market leaders if not even gain because people are already willing to pay a premium for a Toyota over a Chevy/Ford/Hyundai, or pay a premium on a Mercedes/BMW over any other luxury brand.   A Chevrolet interior, quality and resale value is still worse than a Toyota, if they don't fix that, it doesn't matter what the powertrain is.

 EV's will push prices up, I can't wait to see how may Hyundai Ionic 5's they sell when it is priced and sized like a BMW X3.  This is why the VW iD4 has bombed, priced and sized like a BMW X3, priced above a Rav4 Prime that comes with Toyota reputation, more power and performance.  It was obvious that vehicle wasn't going to sell, it is an overpriced bland appliance, terrible name too.

I like the design/look of the BrightDrop vans also- finally a decent-looking cargo box.

As far as interior quality; GM's are very competitive overall, plus have some stellar units already out- I believe it was the CT4 or CT5 that was deemed to exceed the rival BMW's interior.

The one in my GMC is very nice, I can only find 2 minor points I think could be better, but overall it's very very good... and it's already been improved upon with the upcoming '22s. And it's worth $9K more than I paid this spring.

Compare a Malibu to a Camry/Accord or an Equinox/Escape to a RAV4/CR-V.  The Honda and Too are just better vehicles, you can make the Equinox electric, and RAV4 electric and consumers are still going to buy Toyota and GM is going to fleet sale the Equinox and still sell half as many.  
 

The wild card to the EV war will be if someone decides to lose money on them in an attempt to gain market share.  Tesla basically did that for 10 years and became the most valuable car company.  

40 years after GM introduced the air bag, and toyoter is STILL recalling RAV4's for air bag issues, along with cracking suspension arms, leaking engine blocks, power steering going out while driving and failing fuel pumps.  They aren't better built, haven't been for a LONG time.

Looked at pics of the RAV4 & Equinox interior - meh- from that they appear totally comparable & neither is a 'wow'.  I'm not taking my free time to go to a toyoter & Chevy dealer to stroke plastics.

Oh, and there go all the nuances of in-person vehicle inspection between same-segment cars, IF online-only ordering ever becomes mainstream. 

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Compare a Malibu to a Camry/Accord or an Equinox/Escape to a RAV4/CR-V.  The Honda and Too are just better vehicles, you can make the Equinox electric, and RAV4 electric and consumers are still going to buy Toyota and GM is going to fleet sale the Equinox and still sell half as many.  

Sure lets compare the interiors

2022 Chevrolet Equinox

2021 Ford Escape

2022 Toyota Rav4

2022 Honda CRV

Not sure how you can say the Toyota or Honda is better than the Chevrolet, for sure on par and competitive, Ford is the most dated here of the 4 CUVs.

In regard to your car comparison.

2022 Chevrolet Malibu

2022 Accord

2022 Camry

Not seeing any Chevrolet Deficiency here either when compared to Honda or Toyota. 

I would have to say you have not been looking at the current products but are still stuck in the 80's / 90's of product garbage.

I look at cars every day, The materials and fit and finish in American cars just isn’t as good as the Japanese or Korean cars, plus Hyundai and Kia give a lot of equipment for the money.  I drive a 2020 Escape 5 days a week, the difference between that and a 2008 Mercedes is dramatic, and I get that the Mercedes is more than double the money, but it’s 12 years newer too.  The Escape just isn’t a good car, it’s an average appliance.

So GM can roll out all these EV’s but unless they fix the reasons that people don’t currently buy GM cars it won’t matter.  And I think sales will actually drop because consumers may get sticker shock when they see a $45-50k Equinox EV
 

^ Yeah, but you're chronically and cripplingly biased.

EV sticker shock / sales drop hasn't hit the American Ford Mach-E; it's the 2nd highest volume BE SUV behind the Model Y (which starts about $18 grand higher) - how's that happening with the Mach-E being American and the Model Y being the love bundle of U.S. BE buyers?

And where's the mercedes EQC??? Still loosing sales & image to companies that are actually 'walking the walk'??

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Yeah, but you're chronically and cripplingly biased.

EV sticker shock / sales drop hasn't hit the American Ford Mach-E; it's the 2nd highest volume BE SUV behind the Model Y (which starts about $18 grand higher) - how's that happening with the Mach-E being American and the Model Y being the love bundle of U.S. BE buyers?

And where's the mercedes EQC??? Still loosing sales & image to companies that are actually 'walking the walk'??

24,000 Mach-E sales for the first 11 months, less than the GLC, less than half the BMW X3 volume.  The Lexus RX sold over 84,000 in the first 3 quarters.  The isn't really penetrating that luxury segment.  And since it isn't a luxury car, if you compare it to the Rav4 or CR-V which are the same size and non-luxury brands, those sell about 300-400,000 a year.   So if we get to an all EV world, where there is no Escape (as we know it) and the Mach-E is the small-mid size SUV, the biggest segment in the industry, they would need to get Mach-E up to the 250,000 unit per year sales level.  Or Ford needs to make an Escape EV that is $28k that can do 250k units in volume.   You can't bank a company's future on a vehicle that sells 25k units a year and that goes for Ford, Hyundai, Ionic, VW iD4 or whoever else.   

The GLC being a converted ICE platform car is sold in Europe where they need the EV offset for their gas engines due to emissions.  Mercedes does sell more 500 hp cars than any other brand, and more that Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Genesis and Tesla combined.  They have to pay the emissions piper.  And we are getting EQE, EQS SUV and EQE SUV in 2022 and more coming after that,

GLC, X3 & RX are internal combustion.  All BE sales to date are far short of IC in the same segment, and there's no evidence that'll flip anytime soon.  It's VERY likely that everyone moving from IC to BE is going to see significant drops in volume, bar none.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You can't bank a company's future on a vehicle that sells 25k units a year

Ford isn't; not remotely. 

Lastly; the Mach-E is as much a luxury ride as the GLC is. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

GLC, X3 & RX are internal combustion.  All BE sales to date are far short of IC in the same segment, and there's no evidence that'll flip anytime soon.  It's VERY likely that everyone moving from IC to BE is going to see significant drops in volume, bar none.

Right, these EV’s are a fraction of sales in the same segment because they cost too much.  The Mach-E is smaller than a Lexus RX and costs the same, and of course people are going to buy a Lexus over a Ford.

And this is why I think Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, VW, etc are in for a tough time.  These EV’s are too expensive for their current customer bases.  Unless someone has a breakthrough in battery cost.  

You would be very surprised to see the average price paid for a Chevy or Ford; it's MUCH higher than you think.

But like I stated; EVERYONE is going to see volume declines as they switch over to BE.

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

You would be very surprised to see the average price paid for a Chevy or Ford; it's MUCH higher than you think. 

With the demise of most of their car lines in the shift to CUVs/SUVs and trucks, I'd assume the ATP now is considerably higher than it was 5 years ago for both brands.

It's considerably higher than it was a YEAR ago.
Chevy, Sept 2020 : $40.9K 
Chevy, Sept 2021 : $50.4K

Cadillac, Sept 2021 : $81.9K
GMC, Sept 2021 : $61.5K
Buick, Sept 2021 : $36.3K

Ford, Sept 2021 : $50.8K
Mercedes, Sept 2021 : $75.3K
Tesla, Sept 2021 : $55.0K
INDUSTRY AVERAGE : $45.0K

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/average-new-vehicle-transaction-prices-top-45-000-for-first-time-according-to-kelley-blue-book-301399506.html

It’s funny that Buick has a much lower ATP than Chevy…it’s now GM’s bargain brand.  Obviously because they don’t have the full size BOF SUVs and trucks.  Crazy numbers. 

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The GLC being a converted ICE platform car is sold in Europe where they need the EV offset for their gas engines due to emissions.

So... a compliance auto. Chalk this up as a Focus Electric. 

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's considerably higher than it was a YEAR ago.
Chevy, Sept 2020 : $40.9K 
Chevy, Sept 2021 : $50.4K

Cadillac, Sept 2021 : $81.9K
GMC, Sept 2021 : $61.5K
Buick, Sept 2021 : $36.3K

Ford, Sept 2021 : $50.8K
Mercedes, Sept 2021 : $75.3K
Tesla, Sept 2021 : $55.0K
INDUSTRY AVERAGE : $45.0K

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/average-new-vehicle-transaction-prices-top-45-000-for-first-time-according-to-kelley-blue-book-301399506.html

Because Chevy, Ford, GMC are selling higher trim pick ups and Big SUVs.  The lower trim stuff they cut back, the Escape is down 30%, GM sold like 270 Malibus last quarter.

I am aware that people will spend $60k on a Silverado or Sierra, I question how many are going to spend $50k on a EV Equinox or Terrain or Malibu.  
 

And maybe these car companies don’t care and would rather sell half as many cars and just sell expensive ones.  

32 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So... a compliance auto. Chalk this up as a Focus Electric. 

It is, I think that’s why it isn’t here and it was a car they had to build, whereas EQS, EQE are cars they want to build.

ALL car companies basically want to lean toward higher priced / higher margin vehicles. Duh.

What's uncommon is a downmarket push where a brand introduces 3 or 5 models below their traditional entry car. It's a push to chase volume, but at lower margins. 

- - - - -
GM has been steadily following the consumer buying trends, and moving away from sedans. The segment as a whole is withering mightily, so it's a smart move. Keep a few, purge a bunch.

We haven't yet seen what a BE Equinox or Malibu might develop as. If it's as successful sales-volume-wise as the Bolt (usually in the top 4 of BE sellers), they'll be in fine shape. No one thought the Bolt would sell well (for a BE) at $43K, but it did.

4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

It’s funny that Buick has a much lower ATP than Chevy…it’s now GM’s bargain brand.  Obviously because they don’t have the full size BOF SUVs and trucks.  Crazy numbers. 

Yeah...

Not a good look for Buick...

What Im looking at, and find it REALLY interesting:

Cadillac, Sept 2021 : $81.9K

Mercedes, Sept 2021 : $75.3K

I think Cadillac should stop being timid and should start producing and selling today's equivalents of some of those high end concepts we got from them the last 20 years. 

The hand built, built to order, boutique level Escala halo EV  that is about to be launched in the next 2 years is a great way to prove that Cadillac is on its way in re-capturing what they had lost the last 20-40 years. 

And they shouldnt be afraid to delve into that 1%er luxury market often with limited production run halo EVs.  Dream machines is what Cadillac should be offering the public.   Run of the mill, down market stuff should be relegated to Chevrolet and Buick...or...Mercedes.      

Hey, its not as if Mercedes hasnt been on that down-market road in the North American market for the last 20-30 years.           

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The hand built, built to order, boutique level Escala halo EV  that is about to be launched in the next 2 years is a great way to prove that Cadillac is on its way in re-capturing what they had lost the last 20-40 years. 

It's supposed to flirt with the $200K tier... 

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...

Not a good look for Buick...

What Im looking at, and find it REALLY interesting:

 

Cadillac, Sept 2021 : $81.9K

Mercedes, Sept 2021 : $75.3K

 

I think Cadillac should stop being timid and should start producing and selling today's equivalents of some of those high end concepts we got from them the last 20 years. 

The hand built, built to order, boutique level Escala halo EV  that is about to be launched in the next 2 years is a great way to prove that Cadillac is on its way in re-capturing what they had lost the last 20-40 years. 

And they shouldnt be afraid to delve into that 1%er luxury market often with limited production run halo EVs.  Dream machines is what Cadillac should be offering the public.   Run of the mill, down market stuff should be relegated to Chevrolet and Buick...or...Mercedes.      

Hey, its not as if Mercedes hasnt been on that down-market road in the North American market for the last 20-30 years.           

Probably 50% of Cadillac sales are Escalades, it has to be a huge percentage to have an average that high.  If Cadillac killed the CT4, CT5, XT5, XT5, and XT6, their ATP would be $100k, but all their dealers would probably go out of business.  ATP only matters in in-segment comparisons.

I actually thought Mercedes had a high ATP given that their supply chain cuts were to V8 models aside from the S-class, so they did $75k with their 4 and 6 cylinder cars.  
 

Agree though that Cadillac needs more upmarket stuff.  When they do these electric SUVs, they should have V-series on all, and they should have 3 SUVs that can do the Nurburgring under 8 minutes.  And they should also have a “Brougham” trim or whatever they want their Denali to be called, and that should be their Maybach or Bentley fighter.  I think Cadillac is afraid to go up there in price because they don’t think it will sell, but you don’t know unless you try.

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Probably 50% of Cadillac sales are Escalades, it has to be a huge percentage to have an average that high

Nope: 23% in 2021.

54 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Nope: 23% in 2021.

Since GM does quarterly, I found first 3 quarter sales

Escalade 30,841

Cadillac total: 95,925

So that's 32% Escalade.

And in Q3, they sold 10,125 Escalades out of 22,519 total, so that's 44.4% in Q3, which is why that September ATP is so high.  Look at their Q3, the brand outside of the Escalade is collapsing, which I assume is part that no one cares about the XT4 or their sedans, but also because GM only has so many computer chips, and the ones they have go into pickups and full size SUVs.  And rightly so, every car company is putting their chip allotment into their expensive stuff and cutting production on their low end.  But at some point, you can't only have top end models and push expensive ones, which is what it seems like will happen with EV's, high dollar, low volume

OK- in that quarter yes; 32%. Still far from 50%. The Sept ATP is a bit of an anomaly, but of course the entire of 2021 is an anomaly.
Apparently the XT4 was offline for close to 6 months.

Looks like Cadillac's 2020 ATP is in the low $60K range.

- - - - -
Cadillac never should have bothered with the XT4 and CT4 (as I've stated numerous times).  As good as the CT4 is, it's too close to the CT5- a paradox plaguing the industry now- too many models too close to the next model.  I would have greatly preferred to see the CT5 and CT6 as a sedan pairing.

IMO, the move to BE is going to FORCE brands to cut models because the distinction of 4-cyl > 6-cyl > 8-cyl and it's price tiering will be gone.  One everything is accelerating from 0-60 in 3-5 secs and using no gas, what's the point of have -say- SUVs in simultaneous production at 172", 175", 186", 188", 194", 195", 203" (BMW)?

Cadillac should leave the sub $40K market to mainstream / high-volume brands like mercedes & BMW.

46 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OK- in that quarter yes; 32%. Still far from 50%. The Sept ATP is a bit of an anomaly, but of course the entire of 2021 is an anomaly.
Apparently the XT4 was offline for close to 6 months.

Looks like Cadillac's 2020 ATP is in the low $60K range.

- - - - -
Cadillac never should have bothered with the XT4 and CT4 (as I've stated numerous times).  As good as the CT4 is, it's too close to the CT5- a paradox plaguing the industry now- too many models too close to the next model.  I would have greatly preferred to see the CT5 and CT6 as a sedan pairing.

IMO, the move to BE is going to FORCE brands to cut models because the distinction of 4-cyl > 6-cyl > 8-cyl and it's price tiering will be gone.  One everything is accelerating from 0-60 in 3-5 secs and using no gas, what's the point of have -say- SUVs in simultaneous production at 172", 175", 186", 188", 194", 195", 203" (BMW)?

Cadillac should leave the sub $40K market to mainstream / high-volume brands like mercedes & BMW.

 

The CT4 is bigger than the Tesla Model 3 on the outside,  the CT4 just has bad use of interior space and the price on the CT4 and CT5 are too low.   The CT5 is the same size as a Model S.  The size of those cars is fine, the problem is they were designed to bargain basement price chosen by bean counters.   They should have made them better cars at a higher price, maybe they'll do that with their EV plan.

I still think brands will do at least 4 SUVs, plus everyone wants an off roader, so that could be 5 products, then a couple sedans, etc.  Consumers still like variety and choice.  Which is why I think companies like Tesla, Rivian and Lucid are not going to be as competitive as people think, they can't crank out new product fast enough, Tesla has brought 4 cars to market in 10 years, big OEM's can do that in 1 year.

All those Cadillac's in their line up are cheaper than the BMW or Mercedes equivalent of equal size except the Escalade which starts at the same place as the X7 and GLS, but the Escalade tops out at a lower price than those two.   But when Cadillac goes all EV, maybe they'll go head to head with the Germans on price and we'll see what happens.

Most BMW X7s in my area are far cheaper than Escalades are.  Escalade ESV tops out into the $120+K range, and I see numerous (non-ESV) E's over 105K in my area, but only one X7 over $90K (out of 9).  Cadillac's ATP has been higher than BMW's for years now, they've moved past that tired brand.

Model S is 4" longer than a CT5, but like I say- there's far too much overlap in vehicle size vs. price tier.  Model S is really short for a full-size sedan.

The CT4 is a better car in the same price range as the A-class mercedes, which obviously is built to bargain basement FWD pricing.  CT4 & CT5 are excellent cars, and the BlackWings are the best performance sedans built today.

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

Most BMW X7s in my area are far cheaper than Escalades are.  Escalade ESV tops out into the $120+K range, and I see numerous (non-ESV) E's over 105K in my area, but only one X7 over $90K (out of 9).  Cadillac's ATP has been higher than BMW's for years now, they've moved past that tired brand.

Model S is 4" longer than a CT5, but like I say- there's far too much overlap in vehicle size vs. price tier.  Model S is really short for a full-size sedan.

The CT4 is a better car in the same price range as the A-class mercedes, which obviously is built to bargain basement FWD pricing.  CT4 & CT5 are excellent cars, and the BlackWings are the best performance sedans built today.

I thought Model S was like 195-196 inches long, they used to be, I see it is 197 now, but it was never a full size car, it’s like the size of an early 2000s Pontiac Grand Prix, much closer to an E-class than an S-class.  
 

I think the Model S Plaid, M5 CS, AMG GT 4-door, and top end Panamera and Taycan all beat a CT5 Blackwing  in a straight line and on a track, and the CT5 has a bad interior.  Those cars cost more than a CT5, but that goes back to Cadillac not going up market outside of the Escalade.  
 

And the Escalade is nice but there are nicer vehicles out there, the Escalade lives a lot off name recognition, which it deserves, it built the reputation for being big and full of “bling” and people pay it.  But Cadillac hasn’t been able to copy that formulation on any other product.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

beat a CT5 Blackwing  in a straight line and on a track, and the CT5 has a bad interior.

Even if an M5 CS is a tick quicker, it's a poorer performer overall, the reviews are numerous and glowing on the BlackWing vs the competition. See the video review on the interior; I think your assessment is vastly detached from reality. 
 

Reviewers are flat out giddy driving the CT5-V BlackWing.

And yet this competitor vehicle seems more luxurious and better equipped...

The Blackwings do have impressive performance, but why haven't they expanded that to SUVs, like Porsche, Mercedes, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Maserati, Land Rover, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, and soon to be Ferrari have done?  

Why didn't Porsche build the Panamera to be quicker on the track than the CT5-V BlackWing? Or the Taycan "Turbo" S?

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Why didn't Porsche build the Panamera to be quicker on the track than the CT5-V BlackWing? Or the Taycan "Turbo" S?

The Panamera had the 4-door car lap record on the Nurburgring before Mercedes beat them.  It actually has the same time as a C8 with Z51 performance package, maybe even a couple tenths quicker.  Cadillac hasn’t taken the CT5 there, waiting in that and the Z06.  

Tested on the same track, VIR, the CT5-V BW was faster than the Panamera. 
BlackWing has a quicker 0-60 and a higher top speed than the Porsche.