GM To Cut Back On Production As Inventory Is At An 8-Year High

17 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

Actually this was a long time coming. They all did know it was coming but the exact date.

The Election did not bring this on and while GM has more inventory they had prepared for this this higher ATP and less incentives leading up to it. As stated in one story they have a lot of wiggle room to work in that some MFG with already high incentives do not have.

Now that we are post election I would not be surprised that many in the media will try to misrepresent things to push for more economic turmoil as they are not happy with the results. Just look at what they have done to try to diminish the new president elect before he even is in office. To be fair the other side did their things too but in their case the bias of the media was not with them accept for one network.

GM will weather this storm well and better than some MFG. The key is that we do not need a economic storm to hit while this is going on.

The American auto market has limits to growth and it will only come in spurts now as people keep cars longer and many just can no afford new cars anymore. With the youth many are not even getting drivers license till later if at all. Changes are coming in how the auto market works and everyone is watching and adjusting.

We will see incentives come as we do every auto show season starting in Jan and it will clean up some of the extras inventory. If you are in the market for a new car the next few months may be a great time to get a good buy on a Camaro or Cadillac etc.

Dave I agree with you the sky is not falling and I believe many people are waiting for some money on the hood as they have been trained to wait. I know anymore I never buy unless they are making some decent offers and it is always a matter of not if but when,.

We also need to remember this is not the GM of 2008 and it is the GM of 2016 that does not have the limits and issues of the past GM that would prohibit profits and difficulty in making move to clear lots and still make a buck doing it.

Besides the politics (do believe people are still freaked out about that) I agree hands down with everything you said.  Thinking GM forecasted a bit higher than they should have...but I think after some wheeling and dealing-things will right themselves... they will be just fine.

6 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Besides the politics (do believe people are still freaked out about that) I agree hands down with everything you said.  Thinking GM forecasted a bit higher than they should have...but I think after some wheeling and dealing-things will right themselves... they will be just fine.

The line up GM is new and moving in the right direction where it needs to. The amazing thing is few people realize how much they got done in just the 7 years since the bail out. they are mostly one and two models updates and working on more now.

The ATP being up was key. Getting out of fleets also helped. They have many tools and time to work this out.

The one key to business is it is ok to be a little over inventory when you have options but it is a sin to be short inventory and lose sales. Even with some incentives they will still make money but if they were short on product there would be no money made.

Also the public anymore are trained like my dog is on treats. They wait for incentives and many wait for the show season coming up.

As for the politics it has  been hostile but it is even worse this round. I tire of the branding and BS that has been going on.  The funny part those who cry fake news are often generating the fake news. Just as we saw the cries of Racist Trump Supporters burning a black Church in Mississippi the truth has about that it was one of their own members that did it and he was not white and not a Trump supporter.  We will see the same with GM yet as there are many in the media that have a anti American or Capitalism streak in them. They will make a crisis out of anything they can about GM.

The days of Cronkite where people just report the news are long over and it is just going to be agenda driven be it if you are in politics or even business. It is quite sad. 

54 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

Also the public anymore are trained like my dog is on treats. They wait for incentives and many wait for the show season coming up.

I feel like this is only car-people. Most friends and family that I hear looking at cars just look whenever they feel like buying and none of them know about auto show season. They probably know that there is an auto show in STL but that's it.

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I feel like this is only car-people. Most friends and family that I hear looking at cars just look whenever they feel like buying and none of them know about auto show season. They probably know that there is an auto show in STL but that's it.

Folks are just looking for discounts in general. They have no clue why they happen but they know that in the late winter early spring there are incentives [generally show discounts and offers]

They also know June to August they discount cars [often end of year clearances]

Tuck sales in October and November.

Most of this has been like clock work and if you can wait they will save a couple thousand dollars so they will wait.

The higher prices GM now has gives them room for these incentives but still make the profits they want and need.

Other brands that do not have the higher ATP built in are taking in hard as they have to discount but they have little margin to work with.

7 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

 

The higher prices GM now has gives them room for these incentives but still make the profits they want and need.

All day long. Its funny when people were saying the Silverado, Camaro.. etc were soooo much more expensive than the competition. YES.. they were.. but it was always an incentive to be had if U went into the dealership. Pricing the trucks $2500 more than was necessary.. then making the customer feel like they were getting a deal when they beat the salesman into giving them $1500 in discounts. Sales organizations been doing it since the beginning of time. Hell most people do it when they sell shit outta their back yard.. including cars. 

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

All day long. Its funny when people were saying the Silverado, Camaro.. etc were soooo much more expensive than the competition. YES.. they were.. but it was always an incentive to be had if U went into the dealership. Pricing the trucks $2500 more than was necessary.. then making the customer feel like they were getting a deal when they beat the salesman into giving them $1500 in discounts. Sales organizations been doing it since the beginning of time. Hell most people do it when they sell $h! outta their back yard.. including cars. 

Always why value pricing is a bad idea......

Helps too when the prices keep going up...

Only in a forum are.people cheering on the idea of paying higher prices.

53 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Only in a forum are.people cheering on the idea of paying higher prices.

 

Its no way you are an engineer at one of premier automotive companies in the world.  For U not to be able to comprehend what the reality of the pricing is insane.  No one is actually paying higher pricing when one looks at the overall discounts and eventual resale values due to a lack of a reliance on fleet sales and lopsided values versus the foreign competition 

13 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Its no way you are an engineer at one of premier automotive companies in the world.  For U not to be able to comprehend what the reality of the pricing is insane.  No one is actually paying higher pricing when one looks at the overall discounts and eventual resale values due to a lack of a reliance on fleet sales and lopsided values versus the foreign competition 

I have been reading how much people celebrate higher ATP's, myself included, and I scratch  my head a bit.  And in nearly every case, it is well above inflation. Sorry if you can't understand how that can't be good for ANYONE, other than the automakers.  

How often have we seen prices actually go down?  Very rare.  When I see it, only then am I impressed.  Mustang and Camaro as an example, have actually maintained decent price value through the years.  Camaro slightly veered from that recently, How's that working out for them?  Right, I get it, offer 5% more performance and jack the price by 10%.  Good luck with that.  And yet many celebrate this.  It's pretty easy to add a bit more content or engineering to justify more cost and higher ATP's.  It's dam easy, actually.  Getting people to pay it, is another story.  Clearly.

What is difficult from an engineering POV, is delivering more for same or less.  That is what I hope to see more of, because nobody can afford cars today.  Many are leasing again, or buying used or stripped down models.  So that is my rant.  

Funny, because not even a year ago, some fans were touting Ford's record profits, which were mostly a direct result of higher ATPs on their breads and butter models. Guess when the shoe is on the other foot though...

49 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

 

I have been reading how much people celebrate higher ATP's, myself included, and I scratch  my head a bit.  And in nearly every case, it is well above inflation. Sorry if you can't understand how that can't be good for ANYONE, other than the automakers.  

How often have we seen prices actually go down?  Very rare.  When I see it, only then am I impressed.  Mustang and Camaro as an example, have actually maintained decent price value through the years.  Camaro slightly veered from that recently, How's that working out for them?  Right, I get it, offer 5% more performance and jack the price by 10%.  Good luck with that.  And yet many celebrate this.  It's pretty easy to add a bit more content or engineering to justify more cost and higher ATP's.  It's dam easy, actually.  Getting people to pay it, is another story.  Clearly.

What is difficult from an engineering POV, is delivering more for same or less.  That is what I hope to see more of, because nobody can afford cars today.  Many are leasing again, or buying used or stripped down models.  So that is my rant.  

Everything you just said about GM, can easily be applied to Ford as well, especially the Mustang. Plenty of 5% gain models for 10% more of the cost on that side of the fence as well.

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Everything you just said about GM, can easily be applied to Ford as well, especially the Mustang. Plenty of 5% gain models for 10% more of the cost on that side of the fence as well.

I clearly....VERY CLEARLY stated that EVERYONE is increasing at a faster rate that inflation, mostly.

22 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

 

I clearly....VERY CLEARLY stated that EVERYONE is increasing at a faster rate that inflation, mostly.

 

Yet you single out the GM product as your sole example so I provided a balanced counter. 

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet you single out the GM product as your sole example so I provided a balanced counter. 

I clearly stated how Mustang and Camaro for years have been value leaders, by not exceeding inflation.....except recently, where Camaro prices were much higher.  That's just a fact. And obviously I am not talking about extreme niche high performance variants, but rather, entry level MSRP.  It would be a futile argument to debate today's extreme performance to an era that offered Nothing as impressive.

So you offered no balance. But, if you can find a Ford product that increased disproportionate to previous vehicles so not to upset GM fans, then by all means.  It's not easy.  Today's trucks are technological tour-de-forces, so comparing them is a bit more difficult, unless you strip them down also to bare V8 base models, which are actually quite close in price.  Camaro was the perfect example.  Deal with the truth.

3 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

I clearly stated how Mustang and Camaro for years have been value leaders, by not exceeding inflation.....except recently, where Camaro prices were much higher.  That's just a fact. And obviously I am not talking about extreme niche high performance variants, but rather, entry level MSRP.  It would be a futile argument to debate today's extreme performance to an era that offered Nothing as impressive.

So you offered no balance. But, if you can find a Ford product that increased disproportionate to previous vehicles so not to upset GM fans, then by all means.  It's not easy.  Today's trucks are technological tour-de-forces, so comparing them is a bit more difficult, unless you strip them down also to bare V8 base models, which are actually quite close in price.  Camaro was the perfect example.  Deal with the truth.

Truth? I call that excuses but whatever floats your double standard boat.

Corvette should be a Chevy, I have often argued there should be a V6 entry model Corvette because it should be a semi affordable sports car.  Just because it had a base V8 in 1988 doesn't mean it needs a base V8 today.  Cadillacs have base 4 cylinders now when 20 years ago they had standard V8s.

i am suggesting that Cadillac build a car above Corvette.  I  don't think the Corvette should go over $100k, while Cadillacs sports car should start at like $125k.

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Corvette should be a Chevy, I have often argued there should be a V6 entry model Corvette because it should be a semi affordable sports car.  Just because it had a base V8 in 1988 doesn't mean it needs a base V8 today.  Cadillacs have base 4 cylinders now when 20 years ago they had standard V8s.

i am suggesting that Cadillac build a car above Corvette.  I  don't think the Corvette should go over $100k, while Cadillacs sports car should start at like $125k.

I completely agree.  

Not everyone wants extreme acceleration.  Some just want the look, the ride, handling, etc.  And honestly, I would accept more than adequate performance from a 320hp V6 vette that probably even handles better.

@smk4565

I get what you are saying. And I would agree to that 100% if Cadillac had its house together. It does not. It needs other products a tad more than a sports car. It needs products that clearly define what Cadillac is. And as of now, it only has 1 product that clearly defines what Cadillac is and what consumers want of Cadillac....just 1. And that is the Escalade. Not even the CT6 is that product. Therefore a sports car for Cadillacwould just be a flop.

@Wings4Life

I also agree to what you said. Along with SMK's post regarding base trims and base prices for Corvettes.

HOWEVER...

A BASE V8 450 horse Vette  in the 50 000 dollar range is where we are at now!

No need to fix that as that is as perfect as it gets for sports car enthusiasts, Vette fans and mid-life crisis folk alike that want a cheap, fast car. The Corvette has NEVER strayed from that...only improved upon what base gets you...

If one does not want 450 horses under the hood from a V8, there is another RWD coupe from Chevrolet (or Ford for that matter) with a plethora of engine choices and price tags to fit their needs....the Vette as is in base form does not need to retract its performance numbers and horsepower figures and dummy down for anybody!!! Turbo V6 as base engine for Vette? Why? No need to do that!!!! Base V8 nets you 450 horses that are quite tame and fuel efficient and wild when need be... Electric assist  motors might be welcomed though. (I would love to see that in the Ford GT as well)

It does however need to go up with its performance numbers and possibly its price tag a tad to re-invent itself at the higher trims to be able to continue to do battle with the big boys at the top of the sports car food chain. Yes...I am talking about 100% mid-engined to do REAL battle with Ford GTs and mid-engined Ferraris and Porsche 917s and Lamborghini Aventadors...

No...Cadillac does NOT need to do that....and I know you Wings, you agree with me for that, but 'tis Corvette that needs to do that...and a Corvette shall ALWAYS remain a Chevy...unless Chevy has the guts to make the Vette into its own brand...

Its got the cachet to do so...hell....the Vette name has got MORE brand cachet than Cadillac has...

A return of the XLR should be similar in all ways to what the other luxo makers do with their sports cars. Simple and plain. An XLR starting exactly where the Vette starts and ending exactly where the Vette ends in terms of HP would be perfect. Where the Caddy should be different is in the area luxurious accommodations 

59 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

@Wings4Life

I also agree to what you said. Along with SMK's post regarding base trims and base prices for Corvettes.

HOWEVER...

A BASE V8 450 horse Vette  in the 50 000 dollar range is where we are at now!

No need to fix that as that is as perfect as it gets for sports car enthusiasts, Vette fans and mid-life crisis folk alike that want a cheap, fast car. The Corvette has NEVER strayed from that...only improved upon what base gets you...

If one does not want 450 horses under the hood from a V8, there is another RWD coupe from Chevrolet (or Ford for that matter) with a plethora of engine choices and price tags to fit their needs....the Vette as is in base form does not need to retract its performance numbers and horsepower figures and dummy down for anybody!!! Turbo V6 as base engine for Vette? Why? No need to do that!!!! Base V8 nets you 450 horses that are quite tame and fuel efficient and wild when need be... Electric assist  motors might be welcomed though. (I would love to see that in the Ford GT as well)

It does however need to go up with its performance numbers and possibly its price tag a tad to re-invent itself at the higher trims to be able to continue to do battle with the big boys at the top of the sports car food chain. Yes...I am talking about 100% mid-engined to do REAL battle with Ford GTs and mid-engined Ferraris and Porsche 917s and Lamborghini Aventadors...

No...Cadillac does NOT need to do that....and I know you Wings, you agree with me for that, but 'tis Corvette that needs to do that...and a Corvette shall ALWAYS remain a Chevy...unless Chevy has the guts to make the Vette into its own brand...

Its got the cachet to do so...hell....the Vette name has got MORE brand cachet than Cadillac has...

Good points. Did not think it through. I was excited for a moment thinking of what could be.

27 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

A return of the XLR should be similar in all ways to what the other luxo makers do with their sports cars. Simple and plain. An XLR starting exactly where the Vette starts and ending exactly where the Vette ends in terms of HP would be perfect. Where the Caddy should be different is in the area luxurious accommodations 

A return of the XLR today would win a trophy for being an even bigger failure......and even less popular than that Volt clone, that lasted....what.....a few months?

45 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Good points. Did not think it through. I was excited for a moment thinking of what could be.

I am excited to maybe to have a mid-engined Zora C8 Vette and hopefully the Ford GT will still be in production and to see finally 2 great American cars on top of the food chain sport car scene both of them finally with the same type of chassis do battle against each other and the rest of world...

On the lower end?

That us why there is Mustang versus Camaro. With the Camaro (and Mustang) pushing the performance envelope SURPASSING the BASE Corvette....why would anybody want to wish for a more mundane Corvette.

That to me would kill the buzz for a Corvette...

Unless the Corvette goes its own way and becomes its own brand....then and only then will there be room for a SLOWER Corvette...

As branded a Chevy....I dont think ANY Vette owner wants his Vette being beaten by a turbo 4 cylinder lesser brother Camaro...or worse...a FORD by the way of an ecoboosted 4 cylinder Mustang...

As its own brand though....a slower Vette owner buys into the brand and not the car per se...

Just how I view things..not saying you are wrong and Im right...just my POV.

You could be right and a TTV6 base Vette would just be out of this world...

15 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

A return of the XLR today would win a trophy for being an even bigger failure......and even less popular than that Volt clone, that lasted....what.....a few months?

 

I don't think that U realize that U actually agreed with me when U responded to Smk 's post a few clicks up.  The XLR sold decent for the pricing and place it was,  but GM didn't flesh it out the way they did with the Vette.  In reality it should still be in sale just with the same attention to the market as Chevy puts on the Vette.  The ELR should have never been an exact Volt close.  It should have been a coupe version of the ATS with voltec going into all Cadillac vehicles as an alternative powertrain..   As we see with the CT6  phev and  over at BMW with the 5 and  7series e

I think Cadillac today has the resources to do an XLR right, but I think they have the wits about them to realize they have other fish to fry first.

That said, as long as the other stuff is already in the pipeline, starting today for an early 2020+ release wouldn't be bad.

21 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

I completely agree.  

Not everyone wants extreme acceleration.  Some just want the look, the ride, handling, etc.  And honestly, I would accept more than adequate performance from a 320hp V6 vette that probably even handles better.

Well minimum 335 hp 3.6 V6, but I was thinking more like a 3 liter turbo V6, more like 390 hp, which is still more than what an early 2000s Corvette was making.  Turbos have good low end torque too.  Either way, there should be like a $49,000 base model, not $56,000 like today.  And I still so no reason to push it over $100,000.  It is a Chevy.

And then what do you do with the $150-300,000 segment where there are a dozen or more sports cars?  I think GM thinks they can put a Corvette against Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini, MacLaren, or Mercedes and Porsche and beat them head on.  That isn't going to happen, no one wants a $250,000 Corvette the way they won't blink at spending $300,000 on a Ferrari.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Well minimum 335 hp 3.6 V6, but I was thinking more like a 3 liter turbo V6, more like 390 hp, which is still more than what an early 2000s Corvette was making.  Turbos have good low end torque too.  Either way, there should be like a $49,000 base model, not $56,000 like today.  And I still so no reason to push it over $100,000.  It is a Chevy.

And then what do you do with the $150-300,000 segment where there are a dozen or more sports cars?  I think GM thinks they can put a Corvette against Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini, MacLaren, or Mercedes and Porsche and beat them head on.  That isn't going to happen, no one wants a $250,000 Corvette the way they won't blink at spending $300,000 on a Ferrari.

I think the purpose of a V6 would be entry level pricing for more sales.

Adding turbo chargers does not help that effort.

On 12/23/2016 at 7:19 AM, Wings4Life said:

Only in a forum are.people cheering on the idea of paying higher prices.

 

Profit....pure and simple

1 hour ago, daves87rs said:

Profit....pure and simple

That's very charitable of you.

Personally, I like to pay as little as possible for my new cars.

9 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

That's very charitable of you.

Personally, I like to pay as little as possible for my new cars.

Mitsubishi Mirage it is!

10 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

That's very charitable of you.

Personally, I like to pay as little as possible for my new cars.

Funny. I never see you mention these types of things when Ford's quarterly profit reports come in, escpacially when then they were making record profits last year. It sure made the stockholders happy, is all I know. 

In fact, those profits were highly touted not even eight months ago by one stockholder.

39 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Funny. I never see you mention these types of things when Ford's quarterly profit reports come in, escpacially when then they were making record profits last year. It sure made the stockholders happy, is all I know. 

 

In fact, those profits were highly touted not even eight months ago by one stockholder.

 

Sorry, profit does not rely solely on bigger ATP's.  How about volumes? How about efficient running of all aspects of business?? How about smarter manufacturing and balanced  engineering???? I could go on and on, but you should get the point by now.  

My point again, that you must have lost focus of, is that I am not too excited about ANY manufacturer raising prices too much.  Pretty simple statement here.  

This should help move those volumes......

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/7274329f-c4c1-33b2-b2fe-2b61f18d27ed/ss_chevy-cuts-prices-by-over.html

Clearance sales for a dead model.

2 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Sorry, profit does not rely solely on bigger ATP's.  How about volumes? How about efficient running of all aspects of business?? How about smarter manufacturing and balanced  engineering???? I could go on and on, but you should get the point by now.  

My point again, that you must have lost focus of, is that I am not too excited about ANY manufacturer raising prices too much.  Pretty simple statement here.  

So while bemoaning the profits overall, you still offer excuses for your company doing the very thing you bemoaned? My focus is not lost at all here but yours seems to be tiptoeing all over the map. I'll just leave it that.

1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

This should help move those volumes......

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/7274329f-c4c1-33b2-b2fe-2b61f18d27ed/ss_chevy-cuts-prices-by-over.html

 

 

That's good. It's also good that Ford is offering a similar deal on their best selling truck.

http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/12/19/ford-offers-8000-off-flagship-f-150-pickup/

On 12/25/2016 at 0:36 AM, Wings4Life said:

That's very charitable of you.

Personally, I like to pay as little as possible for my new cars.

Can't disagree with you there....granted, I actually like the base models as the new tech really doesn't interest me....plus I can customize them to my liking.

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

That's good. It's also good that Ford is offering a similar deal on their best selling truck.

http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/12/19/ford-offers-8000-off-flagship-f-150-pickup/

This thread is about GM's glut of product, and my link was a solution to it.

You are off subject, and clearly trolling.

8 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

This thread is about GM's glut of product, and my link was a solution to it.

You are off subject, and clearly trolling.

I'll be keeping this in my back pocket.

On 12/24/2016 at 11:58 AM, Wings4Life said:

I think the purpose of a V6 would be entry level pricing for more sales.

Adding turbo chargers does not help that effort.

Chevy can sell a turbo engine on a $19,000 Cruze, I think they can figure out how to sell a turbo on a $49,000 Corvette.  The other option is a beefed up turbo 4 making like 310 hp and torque, it wouldn't weigh much at all and make a super light Corvette.  But I think that would be a bit down on power, you'd want at least 350 for a Corvette, which is why I think a base V6.

The VSport 3.6 should be sufficient. It's already built. It's already mated to the 8speed auto.

It would appear that GM has reduced inventory to more acceptable levels without resorting to drastic measures.

Good stuff!

1 hour ago, El Kabong said:

It would appear that GM has reduced inventory to more acceptable levels without resorting to drastic measures.

Good stuff!

What are their levels now here in January?

According to a guy in another place I post in who's a bit of a numbers cruncher they went from 87 days to 71 overall, adjusted for the extra sales day in December. I'm not going to post the link but I trust the guy, not least because fans of other brands never attacked him