GM To Cut Back On Production As Inventory Is At An 8-Year High

Huh, and I thought it was just FCA cars losing ground and having big incentives because they were on old platforms and nothing to do with the CUV boom.  Who knew..........

27 minutes ago, Stew said:

Huh, and I thought it was just FCA cars losing ground and having big incentives because they were on old platforms and nothing to do with the CUV boom.  Who knew..........

Come on Stew. FCA is suffering from both issues and this is coming from an 8 year Magnum owner and an LX fan. They have problems that go beyond just CUVs or lack thereof. 

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Come on Stew. FCA is suffering from both issues and this is coming from an 8 year Magnum owner and an LX fan. They have problems that go beyond just CUVs or lack thereof. 

Not really.  the cars made in the plants that GM is idling have all not been the sales successes expected, especially the Alpha cars and the Omega CT6 already having issues?  Not good.  And Jeep is the highest selling CUV/SUV brand bar none. 

48 minutes ago, Stew said:

Not really.  the cars made in the plants that GM is idling have all not been the sales successes expected, especially the Alpha cars and the Omega CT6 already having issues?  Not good.  And Jeep is the highest selling CUV/SUV brand bar none. 

That does not take away from my original statement about FCA. For the record though, I do not disagree with the GM issues but it is easier to prove their losses are a result of the CUV craze than it is about the product itself. That is the difference between what is going on at GM and what is going on at FCA. The LX platform is two decades old and is in dire need of a shot in the arm but FCA seems content to hang it out to dry while making a bunch of empty promises about such. 

Well GM has a lot more options this time than back in 09. 

The union deals that made them pay are gone. 

Also many of the cars on the list have to be considered. The Enclave and Terrain are going into build out mode where they stock pile them as new models and lines are being made. This number is not suprising and the Terrain will move to classic mode with fleet sales taking care of the volume. 

The Cruze had to get caught up and GM has worked 2-3 shifts. they will just go back to one and most of the people will just come off over time. 

The Alpha has suffered mostly due to the changes at Cadillac and the Camaro price increase where people will wait it out for incentives. They have already done some and it helped. The real hurt is the declines in the coupe market. Even the Mustang has suffered greater sales declines. 

Corvette has several issues. one it is winter and many are waiting to see what the C8 will bring. It is not far off. 

But here is the real issue. The market is in decline for everyone. The companies that had prepared for it will survive pretty find. GM for the last few years has been working hard on SUV and CUV models as well as two truck lines to keep profits and volume up. They also have worked hard to increase ATP so even at lower volumes and with some incentives they will remain profitable. 

They need to get the new Buick lines in place and star better marketing the Lacrosse. It is a big unknown out there and a really good car for the money. Cadillac is a write off for the next couple years but they will remain profitable even at lower volumes. 

The key will be to see how they manage inventories from January to July. If they can work it well they will sell down with the auto shows coming but sales will decline but look for profits to remain in the black. 

Holding many new products and larger volume products give so much more flexibility to work the market. 

That's a lot of newer GM product that is loitering around lots.  FCA has problems, but very little that new product can't solve.  GM's problems are scary.  

And wow, CT6 is at 110 days already.  

That's Too Much Cars!!!

They need to cut production way back, I imagine the discounts will hit most of those cars come the winter months when sales tend to slow down even more.  But look at that list, luxury sedans and sports coupes.  Coupe sales are dropping everywhere, full size sedans dropping every where, and the ATS never really hit it, the Infiniti and Lexus counterparts outsell it with ease, let alone what the German leaders do. 

GM also has to look at their brands, they are too car heavy.  Chevy has more sedans than crossovers, that makes no sense.  Cadillac has 1 crossover, they should have 4.  The market wants crossovers.  We enthusiasts like rear drive luxury sedans and sports cars, but the sheeple out there want tall wagons for their "active lifestyles" or some crap.

 Well what are most of the new coming vehicles that are coming in the next years. All trucks and SUV/CUV models for the most parts. 

Just the Equinox and Traverse will major impact the Chevy numbers alone. 

The future will have to still have cars to meet CAFE so you have to keep them up and GM is not going to be stupid and ax their car lines like Chrysler did as they will be needed in the future.  But with that said slow models like the Impala and others could be at risk.  

I also think what is being missed here is GM can idle plants today where as in the past it was cheaper to keep them open and in production since they had to pay union members nearly full wage no matter if they worked or not. 

Think about it GM never used to close much down other than the change over in June and July. Now they can do as others have done for years in production. One card that was never permitted to play before the bail out due to poorly structured contracts. 

11 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

That's a lot of newer GM product that is loitering around lots.  FCA has problems, but very little that new product can't solve.  GM's problems are scary.  

 

And wow, CT6 is at 110 days already.  

Yeah, they should have moved thirty percent of their inventory to fleet like Ford did the first nine months of the year. Oh wait, Ford had to stop production on the F-150 and Mustang for a short time too not even two months ago. GM will be fine. 

First this is a stock manipulator, failing to have a real effect. Interesting enough if U were smart enough to buy back in June.. U are now $10 per share richer

Second... This does nothing in taking away from the greatness of any of the cars at any of the plants.. These are '17 models.. which will be the newest things out for the next 10 months before the '18s arrive. I'm tripping on how the usual suspects come into a thread claiming that suddenly a CAR is inferior because it has a supply abundance.. How about GM had a "I'm giving these workers some hours to help the economy and not lay-off during the Holidays" issue.

Me??? If I were running Ford... and this came about (which it did but I'll get to that in a sec) I'd find Wingnuts specifically and say "Wings!!! GET THE $#$@  OUT!!! And Don't let the Door hit your fat A$$!!!"  As I told other workers.. "hate that guy..."

Bottom line is that GM idle the CAR plants because lets face it.. cars are the secondary transportation units these days. Not including SUVS.. CUVs have accounted for 5.1 Mil while cars in the MID-SIZE sold 3 Mil, LARGE and Lux cars sold 900K  and Compacts sold 2.6 Mil. This means CUVs have dwarfed all three of the car categories individually 

Oh... Didn't Ford just, lil over a month ago idle its Wayne plant because of light demand for the Focus and Cmax.. then idle the Kentucky and Mexico plants that makes the Escape and MKC?? Also.. they idled Kansas City for overproducing the mighty F150!!!  Yes.. the did: THE YES THE DID LINK  and another: The F150 on SOFT DEMAND LINK

Stew.. I won't even comment on anything going on over at FCA.. Its just too effin sad to speak about

I can pretty well guarantee you will see cars come back to Dodge dealerships.  I see no problem with them outsourcing for their midsize and compacts, as something GM did with Toyota and Ford with Mazda.  The fact is that right now it is more important for them to fill their portfolios with what sells and that is SUV/CUVs.  Let's be honest here.  The importance o the Dart was not sales or even longevity in the marketplace.  It was a tool that they used to get over the 40 MPG barrier that allowed Fiat to purchase more of Chrysler.  The 200 was actually a nice car, it just needed tweaked which could have happened with a nice MCE, but the plant space right now is better used for more profitable trucks (much as GM did when they killed the B-bodies in 96 and replaced them with fullsize trucks in the factory).  The problem here is like wins said, that is a lot of newer product on newer platforms to be stopping the factories on.  We will see the LX replacements because their usage of the new Alfa platform has to happen to make it financially viable, as much as the Camaro is the price leader for the Alpha range.  Honestly, with their more complete SUV/CUV ranges FCA, Ford, and Toota are in some of the best positions right now to give people what they want. 

I will say i become more convinced everyday that Cadillac needs to work on heir quality.  My brother's ATS at less than 10k miles has already had to have the entire CUE head-unit replace and some features such as the lighted entry, only work sometimes.  He has also had to have the PCM flashed for rough idling.  Add to that the fact that for courtesy cars he always gets Impala Limiteds where as the Audi dealership had A3s and Q5s as their loaners.   If Cadillac wants to be taken seriously they really need to work out the bugs and get WAY moe serious about their dealership experience. 

31 minutes ago, Stew said:

Add to that the fact that for courtesy cars he always gets Impala Limiteds where as the Audi dealership had A3s and Q5s as their loaners. 

I think this is actually a huge issue. While it isn't such a huge deal.. it is at the same time. You don't loan somebody who's spent 40-100k on a Cadillac a Chevy Impala or Chevy anything.

50 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

First this is a stock manipulator, failing to have a real effect. Interesting enough if U were smart enough to buy back in June.. U are now $10 per share richer

 

Second... This does nothing in taking away from the greatness of any of the cars at any of the plants.. These are '17 models.. which will be the newest things out for the next 10 months before the '18s arrive. I'm tripping on how the usual suspects come into a thread claiming that suddenly a CAR is inferior because it has a supply abundance.. How about GM had a "I'm giving these workers some hours to help the economy and not lay-off during the Holidays" issue.

Me??? If I were running Ford... and this came about (which it did but I'll get to that in a sec) I'd find Wingnuts specifically and say "Wings!!! GET THE $#$@  OUT!!! And Don't let the Door hit your fat A$$!!!"  As I told other workers.. "hate that guy..."

Bottom line is that GM idle the CAR plants because lets face it.. cars are the secondary transportation units these days. Not including SUVS.. CUVs have accounted for 5.1 Mil while cars in the MID-SIZE sold 3 Mil, LARGE and Lux cars sold 900K  and Compacts sold 2.6 Mil. This means CUVs have dwarfed all three of the car categories individually 

 

Oh... Didn't Ford just, lil over a month ago idle its Wayne plant because of light demand for the Focus and Cmax.. then idle the Kentucky and Mexico plants that makes the Escape and MKC?? Also.. they idled Kansas City for overproducing the mighty F150!!!  Yes.. the did: THE YES THE DID LINK  and another: The F150 on SOFT DEMAND LINK

Stew.. I won't even comment on anything going on over at FCA.. Its just too effin sad to speak about

This thread is not about Ford, it's about GM's huge glut of product sitting on lots.

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think this is actually a huge issue. While it isn't such a huge deal.. it is at the same time. You don't loan somebody who's spent 40-100k on a Cadillac a Chevy Impala or Chevy anything.

Yes, with a luxury car the dealership experience is very important.  Even the showroom itself is important.  The Audi dealership was high class with wood floors and warm tones everywhere and at least one example of every model they offer in the interior showroom for you to browse (I am such a kid just sitting in a new R8 gave me a hue smile).  he Chevy/Cadillac dealership is all white, white walls, white floors, flimsy seats, in other words nothing special.  Cadillac needs their own showrooms period. 

15 minutes ago, Stew said:

Yes, with a luxury car the dealership experience is very important.  Even the showroom itself is important.  The Audi dealership was high class with wood floors and warm tones everywhere and at least one example of every model they offer in the interior showroom for you to browse (I am such a kid just sitting in a new R8 gave me a hue smile).  he Chevy/Cadillac dealership is all white, white walls, white floors, flimsy seats, in other words nothing special.  Cadillac needs their own showrooms period. 

You do know that Cadillac is addressing that very issue with their dealerships right? They are pairing (closing) the smaller market dealerships down and updating and renovating the rest. This has been well addressed here before. 

51 minutes ago, Stew said:

I will say i become more convinced everyday that Cadillac needs to work on heir quality.  My brother's ATS at less than 10k miles has already had to have the entire CUE head-unit replace and some features such as the lighted entry, only work sometimes.  He has also had to have the PCM flashed for rough idling.  Add to that the fact that for courtesy cars he always gets Impala Limiteds where as the Audi dealership had A3s and Q5s as their loaners.   If Cadillac wants to be taken seriously they really need to work out the bugs and get WAY moe serious about their dealership experience. 

On the loaner service.. don't kno.. My dealerships ( I usually deal with one here in Balto.. but a different one when I'm at my Voorhees home) always.. and I mean always have a in stock Loaner. A few years ago they were using Enterprise tho, but that was before 2009. About a month ago I had to take my V in for an Oil change etc and they gave me '17 XTS4 with like 300 miles on her. It was a Premium Luxury VSport. I asked for a CT6 or even a Platinum VSport XTS, but they couldn't. Point is that it may be the dealership. 

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

On the loaner service.. don't kno.. My dealerships ( I usually deal with one here in Balto.. but a different one when I'm at my Voorhees home) always.. and I mean always have a in stock Loaner. A few years ago they were using Enterprise tho, but that was before 2009. About a month ago I had to take my V in for an Oil change etc and they gave me '17 XTS4 with like 300 miles on her. It was a Premium Luxury VSport. I asked for a CT6 or even a Platinum VSport XTS, but they couldn't. Point is that it may be the dealership. 

 

Which is another issue onto itself.  All dealerships should be offering a premium experience.

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You do know that Cadillac is addressing that very issue with their dealerships right? They are pairing (closing) the smaller market dealerships down and updating and renovating the rest. This has been well addressed here before. 

Last i saw this was on hold because of push back from the dealerships?

28 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think this is actually a huge issue. While it isn't such a huge deal.. it is at the same time. You don't loan somebody who's spent 40-100k on a Cadillac a Chevy Impala or Chevy anything.

Again.. its a dealership thing. Also.. realize that had they given me an Impala I would have had ZERO issue even after spending $100K on my Caddy. Quite frankly they didn't even have to offer a loaner as my issue wasn't an issue for them but an issue that I created when I booked the appointment with them.. but had double-booked an appoint with a client at the same time. The Impala is a pretty nice place to be these days.. Ironically the Chevy dealership give me a Camaro when I had to take my Stingray in for a recall. It was a V6 but that thing was SWEET 

3 minutes ago, Stew said:

Which is another issue onto itself.  All dealerships should be offering a premium experience.

Last i saw this was on hold because of push back from the dealerships?

Of course there wil be some push back but its going to happen whether the weak dealerships like it or not. It also doesn't change my original point. 

Just now, Cmicasa the Great said:

Again.. its a dealership thing. Also.. realize that had they given me an Impala I would have had ZERO issue even after spending $100K on my Caddy. Quite frankly they didn't even have to offer a loaner as my issue wasn't an issue for them but an issue that I created when I booked the appointment with them.. but had double-booked an appoint with a client at the same time. The Impala is a pretty nice place to be these days.. Ironically they give me a Camaro when I had to take my Stingray in for a recall. It was a V6 but that thing was SWEET 

But you only buy GM and have experience with Caddy dealerships.  If you are coming from an Audi, Benz, or even a Lexus the dealership experience is going to be a major downgrade and will certainly effect your opinion of owning the brand as a whole. 

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Of course there wil be some push back but its going to happen whether the weak dealerships like it or not. It also doesn't change my original point. 

The longer it takes, the worse it will be.  this change should have been made decades ago. 

Edit:

Looks like the have actually delayed it 2 times already

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cadillac-delays-controversial-dealership-plan-1479920782

The elephant in the room is the fact that it is the cars that are not selling, because customers demand more CUV's, and GM is slow to adjust to customer demand.  Cadillac currently has 1 CUV, when they should have at lest 3, currently

6 minutes ago, Stew said:

The longer it takes, the worse it will be.  this change should have been made decades ago. 

 

Edit:

Looks like the have actually delayed it 2 times already

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cadillac-delays-controversial-dealership-plan-1479920782

Well duh Stew but this is now and they are working on it, much how FCA has been "working on" replacing the aging LX lineup for what seems like decades. 

 And again, of course there will be blowback and of course certain media outlets have to make a bigger deal out of this than it is but it is going to happen regardless, for the benefit of the consumer, which is supposed to be the ultimate goal anyway. 

46 minutes ago, Stew said:

But you only buy GM and have experience with Caddy dealerships.  If you are coming from an Audi, Benz, or even a Lexus the dealership experience is going to be a major downgrade and will certainly effect your opinion of owning the brand as a whole. 

 

 

First I'll ask how do U kno??? Are U buying any of the luxo brand these days??? Also.. My company actually handles IT work for Towson BMW and Catonsville Mercedes.. I personally kno the Sales Managers, Finance Managers, and Gen Managers at BOTH. I'v eseen how they treat their customers.. and while they are professional.. they are no more professional than my Caddy dealers.BTW.. while U are trying to dog out Caddy vs foreign makes dealerships now.. this is one of my dealers, in fact this is Rose right before I wrote the check

I chilled here while they did the paper work

13 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Again.. its a dealership thing. Also.. realize that had they given me an Impala I would have had ZERO issue even after spending $100K on my Caddy. Quite frankly they didn't even have to offer a loaner as my issue wasn't an issue for them but an issue that I created when I booked the appointment with them.. but had double-booked an appoint with a client at the same time. The Impala is a pretty nice place to be these days.. Ironically the Chevy dealership give me a Camaro when I had to take my Stingray in for a recall. It was a V6 but that thing was SWEET 

You also think an Impala is premium though...and are obsessed with everything GM makes. The Impala isn't a bad car but if you're somebody who's a badge snob(a majority of people buying anything with a luxury emblem on it) then you don't want anything Chevy. The Caddy dealership I went to recently was stand alone and they had a Caddy fleet of loaners that they have a contract through GM to sell once they hit I think 3 years or X miles(maybe 2 years). That makes sense to me. Seems as if they will treat their customers better and still be able to make a dime when they go to sell them.

I'm not talking about oil change loaners as much as warranty repair that may take a day or two or even a week, a length of time tat you should have a similarly high quality loaner.

5 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

The elephant in the room is the fact that it is the cars that are not selling, because customers demand more CUV's, and GM is slow to adjust to customer demand.  Cadillac currently has 1 CUV, when they should have at lest 3, currently

For once.. we agree. On the flip side Chevy has a billion.. Buick now has 3. BTW.. that still doesn't explain why Ford had to idle their F150 and Escape and MKC plants. EXPLAIN IT!!! OR STFU

7 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

The elephant in the room is the fact that it is the cars that are not selling, because customers demand more CUV's, and GM is slow to adjust to customer demand.  Cadillac currently has 1 CUV, when they should have at lest 3, currently

GM also has two tiny utes that Ford doesn't have anything for quite yet in the Trax and Encore(the latter of which has sold like crazy).

Cadillac is the only brand lacking SUVs but as a whole GM has the bases covered from Trax to Escalade ESV.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You also think an Impala is premium though...and are obsessed with everything GM makes. The Impala isn't a bad car but if you're somebody who's a badge snob(a majority of people buying anything with a luxury emblem on it) then you don't want anything Chevy. The Caddy dealership I went to recently was stand alone and they had a Caddy fleet of loaners that they have a contract through GM to sell once they hit I think 3 years or X miles(maybe 2 years). That makes sense to me. Seems as if they will treat their customers better and still be able to make a dime when they go to sell them.

I'm not talking about oil change loaners as much as warranty repair that may take a day or two or even a week, a length of time tat you should have a similarly high quality loaner.

The Impala is a premium vehicle. I challenge U to put yours up and disagree based on what U have. Lastly.. As I said.. its a dealership thing. If the dealership hasn't transitioned over to an all Caddy loaner program then they are one of the dealers that needs to go. Simple as that.

I guess U blame GM for a salesman in Caddy dealership beating his kids too huh???

32 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

First I'll ask how do U kno??? Are U buying any of the luxo brand these days??? Also.. My company actually handles IT work for Towson BMW and Catonsville Mercedes.. I personally kno the Sales Managers, Finance Managers, and Gen Managers at BOTH. I'v eseen how they treat their customers.. and while they are professional.. they are no more professional than my Caddy dealers.BTW.. while U are trying to dog out Caddy vs foreign makes dealerships now.. this is one of my dealers, in fact this is Rose right before I wrote the check

 

 

I chilled here while they did the paper work

 

 

9

Congrats, but the point still stands that it needs to be a common thing across all Cadillac dealerships.  And yes, i have experience with Caddy and AUdi Dealerships and know plenty who have experience with Benz, BMW, and Lexus (a lot who have had previous Cadillacs).   Quit acting like you are better than someone because you have more money. 

4 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

For once.. we agree. On the flip side Chevy has a billion.. Buick now has 3. BTW.. that still doesn't explain why Ford had to idle their F150 and Escape and MKC plants. EXPLAIN IT!!! OR STFU

F-150 overstock is easy, as they always overbuild and re-adjust in big F series numbers.  Mustang answer is even easier yet, end of summer sports car blues followed by a simple week adustment, as Camaro suddenly saw increases of 25% for several months in a row (back loaded, incentive heavy fleet anyone!!!).  Clearly GM has a much bigger problem on their hands with all their glut.  But again, this is not about Ford, but thanks for asking.

Now STFU

3 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

The Impala is a premium vehicle. I challenge U to put yours up and disagree based on what U have. Lastly.. As I said.. its a dealership thing. If the dealership hasn't transitioned over to an all Caddy loaner program then they are one of the dealers that needs to go. Simple as that.

I guess U blame GM for a salesman in Caddy dealership beating his kids too huh???

First, I never said my FORD was premium. I said an Impala isn't premium. The Impala is a Chevy.. simple as that. If it was premium it would have a Caddy badge on it and be labeled XTS. Not that an Impala is a bad car, it just isn't premium. It isn't something a Caddy owner should get as a loaner. That's just my opinion and possibly thousands of other's opinions as well as Caddy's sales lag behind their competition or maybe nobody other than Stew agrees with me.

3 hours ago, hyperv6 said:

I also think what is being missed here is GM can idle plants today where as in the past it was cheaper to keep them open and in production since they had to pay union members nearly full wage no matter if they worked or not. 

Think about it GM never used to close much down other than the change over in June and July. Now they can do as others have done for years in production. One card that was never permitted to play before the bail out due to poorly structured contracts. 

This is a very good point.   This is why they kept cranking out Cavaliers even when no one was buying them because they had to pay the Union workers basically full pay regardless..... the question is, why didn't they cut back on shifts, etc, before the inventory got this large?

28 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

The elephant in the room is the fact that it is the cars that are not selling, because customers demand more CUV's, and GM is slow to adjust to customer demand.  Cadillac currently has 1 CUV, when they should have at lest 3, currently

GM has a total of nine CUVs and three full size SUVs. You are right about Cadillac needing a couple more but to say GM is slow to adjust to customer demand is just silly. They have more CUVs than Ford currently. 

18 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

F-150 overstock is easy, as they always overbuild and re-adjust in big F series numbers.  Mustang answer is even easier yet, end of summer sports car blues followed by a simple week adustment, as Camaro suddenly saw increases of 25% for several months in a row (back loaded, incentive heavy fleet anyone!!!).  Clearly GM has a much bigger problem on their hands with all their glut.  But again, this is not about Ford, but thanks for asking.

Now STFU

Excuses excuses

14 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

F-150 overstock is easy, as they always overbuild and re-adjust in big F series numbers.  Mustang answer is even easier yet, end of summer sports car blues followed by a simple week adustment, as Camaro suddenly saw increases of 25% for several months in a row (back loaded, incentive heavy fleet anyone!!!).  Clearly GM has a much bigger problem on their hands with all their glut.  But again, this is not about Ford, but thanks for asking.

Now STFU

Seeing as how Ford kept their inventories relatively low due to higher than industry average incentives and 30% fleet for the first nine months of the year, it perfectly appropriate to compare the two. 

18 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

The Impala is a premium vehicle. I challenge U to put yours up and disagree based on what U have. Lastly.. As I said.. its a dealership thing. If the dealership hasn't transitioned over to an all Caddy loaner program then they are one of the dealers that needs to go. Simple as that.

I guess U blame GM for a salesman in Caddy dealership beating his kids too huh???

I wouldn't call an Impala premium, but I would call it one of the best large family cars in the segment.  I'd say that possibly only the Avalon challenges it in that regard. The Avalon is so good that I think it is probably a better overall value buy than an ES, but that says more about the ES than the Avalon, I really dislike the current ES and it is a complete letdown as a Lexus.

Still... there are cheap bits in the Impala that aren't there in a Lacrosse or XTS..... I notice them because it is my job to.

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is a very good point.   This is why they kept cranking out Cavaliers even when no one was buying them because they had to pay the Union workers basically full pay regardless..... the question is, why didn't they cut back on shifts, etc, before the inventory got this large?

Yes the game has changed and there are doors open that were closed in the past.

Before this is over I expect most brands to shutter plants for a while. They all knew it was coming and some prepared.

As for the management of this I am not sure how fast they can react to it. Also GM may have waited too long but it is not like it used to be where they would just keep compounding it.

In the past all they could do is dump cars on the fleet market two times a year to cut inventories and then add incentives to cars they were making little money on. Even if they have to do incentives today they have more room to work. This may be part of the higher Camaro price as now they have more room.

Higher ATP was stated as being there to prepare for the market slow down. The idea is to make more money per car at lower volumes but it will also give them room to work price too.

i know an Impala is not a premium car, especially the old Limiteds that the local Caddy dealer uses.  Hell, i have a Z71 ya know.  it isn't like I am against GM but I do know they need to improve, especially Cadillac. 

SUV/CUV doesn't matter.... Cadillac has 3.... period.  You can't say that Benz has X number while counting the GLS and then turn around and say the Escalade doesn't count because it is body on frame.

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

First, I never said my FORD was premium. I said an Impala isn't premium. The Impala is a Chevy.. simple as that. If it was premium it would have a Caddy badge on it and be labeled XTS. Not that an Impala is a bad car, it just isn't premium. It isn't something a Caddy owner should get as a loaner. That's just my opinion and possibly thousands of other's opinions as well as Caddy's sales lag behind their competition or maybe nobody other than Stew agrees with me.

U u were talking premium not luxury the Impala is premium take a look do some research like the Avalon and the 300 they are considered to be premium at the top of the scale within their brands if u are only talking about that then u are completely missing my point

Leather seats does not equate to premium.

Impala does not even offer a premium engine option.

Neither does the Buick clone for that matter.  

2 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Leather seats does not equate to premium.

Impala does not even offer a premium engine option.

Neither does the Buick clone for that matter.  

Indeed... I would like to see the 3.0TT in the Lacrosse at least.  I don't think the Impala needs it while SS is around. 

13 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Leather seats does not equate to premium.

Impala does not even offer a premium engine option.

Neither does the Buick clone for that matter.  

And yet,  last I checked the Lexus ES was touting the same engine as the Camry and etc.  Yet...  Its premium.  Pleeeeeeeeease.  If it's premium  and the Impala isn't,  specifically the LTZ,  then we are only talking badges 

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

And yet,  last I checked the Lexus ES was touting the same engine as the Camry and etc.  Yet...  Its premium.  Pleeeeeeeeease.  If it's premium  and the Impala isn't,  specifically the LTZ,  then we are only talking badges 

Even in the LTZ or Avalon  you will find signs of cost-cutting that doesn't exist in an ES or XTS bothers of those cars.  I despise the ES, but the interior and details are beyond reproach. 

17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Indeed... I would like to see the 3.0TT in the Lacrosse at least.  I don't think the Impala needs it while SS is around. 

We certainly agree on all points.  The LF3 should be a company engine.  Even if they tuned it specifically for each brand in terms of HP.  Sorta like the Vette and Camaro's LT1

3 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

And yet,  last I checked the Lexus ES was touting the same engine as the Camry and etc.  Yet...  Its premium.  Pleeeeeeeeease.  If it's premium  and the Impala isn't,  specifically the LTZ,  then we are only talking badges 

It's okay... the MKZ and Continental tout the same engines as an F-150, Taurus, and Fusion.  And the 3.0T is just a modified 2.7T so they have a badging distinction.

6 minutes ago, Stew said:

Even in the LTZ or Avalon  you will find signs of cost-cutting that doesn't exist in an ES or XTS bothers of those cars.  I despise the ES, but the interior and details are beyond reproach. 

Lmfao..   Are U even serious? I said ES nor LS

3 minutes ago, Stew said:

Even in the LTZ or Avalon  you will find signs of cost-cutting that doesn't exist in an ES or XTS bothers of those cars.  I despise the ES, but the interior and details are beyond reproach. 

Simply.... no.  A loaded ES still has button blanks in it. The interior plastics are terrible for the class. Styling is subjective, but the Avalon's dash seems more cohesively styled to me and the panel surrounding the HVAC and infotainment feels very very nice.