GM Expects To Make A Profit On EVs With the Launch of A New Platform

Awesome news to hear they already are working on EV platform 2.0 and have plans to have it profitable. This is outstanding news.

I was hoping they'd get a bit more mileage out of the Bolt platform. 

1 hour ago, William Maley said:

There’s a lot of really creative things we’re doing to achieve that profitability point for that new platform,”

Ahhhh exactly what I want to read.. 

Super expensive powertrain and technology but it'll be in a tin shell with no insulation and plastic seats. 

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Ahhhh exactly what I want to read.. 

Super expensive powertrain and technology but it'll be in a tin shell with no insulation and plastic seats. 

I hope not as one of the things that I love about the bolt is the triple seals on the door and the vault like solid nature of the auto and how quiet it is. If only they would drop or give an alternative color to that damn white V accent, my wife would say lets buy one.

Happy Wife, Happy Life!

Gotta say, finding Her Presentation makes a whole new impression on GM's EV focus.

MaryBarraGMPresentation-11-15-2017.pdf

So interesting to see their focus:

So this chart and what is in the presentation seems to imply 5 crossovers, 7 SUVs, 2 minivans and a couple cars?

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Awesome news to hear they already are working on EV platform 2.0 and have plans to have it profitable. This is outstanding news.

GM is flawed, but they always seem to come through in the end. Were I a betting man I would have no trouble betting money on their success..

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

GM is flawed, but they always seem to come through in the end. Were I a betting man I would have no trouble betting money on their success..

Yes GM starts with a lot of meh.  Then again, who starts perfectly and never drops the ball on execution?

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

GM is flawed, but they always seem to come through in the end. Were I a betting man I would have no trouble betting money on their success..

Makes me want to buy stock in them! Now to find the money.  

58 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Makes me want to buy stock in them! Now to find the money.  

As part of my investment portfolio, I do have some auto stocks...Ford, GM, FCA, Daimler, Tesla... 

Dude in the infographic posted, that silver vehicle looks like a new Chevy Trax...

I like the looks on the small crossover.   I wouldn't buy a crossover, but given the proportions designers have to work with on compact crossovers, I think that one looks pretty good.

These batteries will come down in price.  Probably by 2026 the batteries will be $60 per kilowatt hour.

12 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Ahhhh exactly what I want to read.. 

Super expensive powertrain and technology but it'll be in a tin shell with no insulation and plastic seats. 

I was thinking the same thing...but along the lines of cheapening out on some sort of automotive part by reducing the amount of material used by making it smaller and saving about 3 cents per unit and when the part gets old by 5 years or so and the car hits a bump...the part fails in such a way that for whatever reason locks the steering wheel from turning and prevents the airbag in deploying when the car goes boom...

But for me to say such a thing maybe trolling...GM would never do that....

As companies get better at EVs, they'll continue to be simpler to build than ICEs. That's where I expect a lot of efficiency to come from. There will be a greater percentage of common parts shared among different models.

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A Trax EV with a 225+ mile range would be just about the smartest EV move GM could make.

Gotta have 300+ and I don't see a charge port door in GM's typical location on the fender.  Would be a cool little trucklet with the whisper diesel.

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Gotta have 300+ and I don't see a charge port door in GM's typical location on the fender.  Would be a cool little trucklet with the whisper diesel.

I agree that a small Trucklet EV would make total sense especially as it would fit in for the local city and county gov that need a truck that actually drives very little for park maintenance, as well as for inner city dwellers that want a mini truck for Home Depot or Lowes runs.

23 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A Trax EV with a 225+ mile range would be just about the smartest EV move GM could make.

Trax is too small, Equinox size is better.  GM needs a crossover in between Equinox and Traverse too, that is a good place to put an EV.

On 11/16/2017 at 11:44 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

As companies get better at EVs, they'll continue to be simpler to build than ICEs. That's where I expect a lot of efficiency to come from. There will be a greater percentage of common parts shared among different models.

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

Did someone forget about those F&F days?

There too many folks in this world to all be doing the same, exact thing . Not that I was a big fan of fart cans and wings, but some of us just want to enjoy our rides, not matter what they are. We really can't change the times my friend, only finding a way to make it our own.

Besides, ICE will never truly go away....just won't be as big.....

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

You do realize that your 1st paragraph has NOTHING to do with EVs, right?

Hate on EVs all you want...homogeny started a looooong time ago....

Example:

Camaro

Firebird

Only the the steering wheel is different...

Camaro

Firebird

Monte Carlo

Oldsmobile 1986 Cutlass Supreme 442

And of course the not so high output 5.0s found in California Corvettes, Caprices, Fleetwoods and the like!

In the other thread you were saying that it be the same platform and only the shell will differentiate???

Like this?

GM homogenized its engines in the 1970s...over 40 years ago!

The 1980s gave us what I posted above...

It only got worse from there?

NO!

It got better differentiated.

The EVs will be the same...better differentiation between the cars...

Hell...EVs cant get any worse than this sameness:

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

You're about 3 decades late.  The Generic Asian Sedan put most of the sameness into cars that we have today. 

57 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're about 3 decades late.  The Generic Asian Sedan put most of the sameness into cars that we have today. 

Nah, you're wrong.  What's happened up to now is nowhere near the sameness we are in for.

The red arrow, does that mean I'm a hottie below the belt?

15 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

The red arrow, does that mean I'm a hottie below the belt?

If it makes you hot that you think another male thinks you are hot below the belt...than sure...

Why not!

Just to let you know though...I knew at a very early age that I dig females. Only females.

But I am comfortable with MY sexuality to help you come out of the closet if it means that I got to compliment your...um...manhood...

Enjoy...and good luck in your newfound sexuality...

GM homogenized its engines in the 1970s...over 40 years ago!

Correction. There was a very limited sharing in the A-Bodies beginning in '61, when the Tempest & F-85 got the Buick 215 V8 as an option, but that only lasted '61-62 @ Pontiac & '61-63 @ Olds. The next instance was '70, after Pontiac dropped it's OHC I6 and went to the Chevy IBC I6 250. But this was only in the Tempest / LeMans/ base Firebird- the GTO, Firebird Esprit, Trans Am, LeMans Sport, GP, Cat, Executive & Bonneville all ran Pontiac-only engines.

There was scuttlebutt in the mid '70s when GM, due to production constraints, put Olds' 350s in other brands, and vica-versa. Got sued. It was the genesis for the legalese "some engines built by other Divisions of GM". Next instance would be the Olds'-built Diesel 350s in the other brands starting in '78.

These were still singular scenarios. General Motors 'engine homogenization' didn't really begin until GM Powertrain took over all Divisional engine development- this would be 1982. Pontiac Division built it's last V8 in '81; the T/A offered it's 301 4bbl, 301 Turbo, or the Chevy 305. In '82, it was only the 305 "Corporate" V8. Tho some singular Divisional engine physical production continued (Buick still built the 3.8 V6 for many years, for EX), they became 'Corporate' engines.

GM engine homogenization began corporate-wide in 1982. Cadillac was the most proprietary for the longest... but that too has fallen by the wayside. Unfortunately.

OK, so they were off by 5 years so only 35 years ago.  

@balthazar

Thank-you for correcting me. Yes. It was in 1981.

I just made the boo-boo of thinking it was in 1977 when GM downsized its fullsized models that the homogenized process began.

My dad had a 1979 Impala 2 door with the 305. I knew the 305 was part of that homogenized process (hence those pics of the 3rd gen F-Bodies and G-Bodies engines and the mention of the not so HO 5.0 in California Vettes and Caprices and Fleetwoods) AND I knew that those fullsized models were also part of that homogenized process (hence why I mentioned Caprice and Fleetwood and the like)

I assumed that the 305 started popping up in all divisions in 1977.

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

OK, so they were off by 5 years so only 35 years ago.  

To be fair...correct facts are correct facts.

I meant to write 1982.

Im at work so I had to write that post up quickly. I had to serve a client so I made another boo-boo...

What exactly

1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

What exactly

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

@balthazar

Thank-you for correcting me. Yes. It was in 1981.

 

 

To be fair...correct facts are correct facts.

That exactly...the bolded part...

On 11/18/2017 at 4:11 AM, ocnblu said:

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

T only sucks the joy out if you let it. Sorry but a car that can hit 0-60 in less than 2.0 seconds (like the upcoming Tesla roadster) most certainly pure joy. Besides, CUVs have been sucking the joy out of driving for years now yet not one word from the peanut gallery. The focus on CUVs has done more to damage the joy of driving than any EV.

I don't think the Bolt EV is soul sucking at all.  It's a hoot to scamper around in because the torque comes on so strong.... more so than any 4-cylinder mid-size.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't think the Bolt EV is soul sucking at all.  It's a hoot to scamper around in because the torque comes on so strong.... more so than any 4-cylinder mid-size.

Anything without an ICE sucks some soul out. Speed and quickness can't replicate the noises and vibrations of an ICE and gear changes(manual or auto). 

On 11/18/2017 at 5:11 AM, ocnblu said:

Efficiency can too easily equate to totally boring homogeny.  This should be seen as a real threat to the enjoyment of the personal car, and when enjoyment diminishes, lower sales follow, and on and on.

This is why I will continue to rail against automotive electrification... it instills a numbing sameness that will suck all the joy out.

I don't agree with you much on the EV side of things but I completely agree with you here. 

No speed or quickness will replicate or replace the noises and vibrations that ICE and a real transmission(manual or auto)(minus the CVT crap) give you. Heck, I want an intake for my lame Focus because I want MORE intake noises for my car. I don't want it to be silent. Yes, I think a silent car absolutely has it's place and I'd want one as well. But I don't want to have the silence without a second vehicle that makes fun noises as well. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't think the Bolt EV is soul sucking at all.  It's a hoot to scamper around in because the torque comes on so strong.... more so than any 4-cylinder mid-size.

Quoted for Truth and if you hit the Performance button, even more Scampering fun!  

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

But I don't want to have the silence without a second vehicle that makes fun noises as well. 

Yet the tuning of EV's can offer a wide variety of noises and sounds. Look at the Harley-Davidson Livewire bike. In fact all the new EV Bike builders have created their own sound based on how they built the motors.

I totally expect some silent EV auto's and many will love it, but I also expect some screaming EV performance auto's which plenty of YouTube video's to prove this.

For the noise of this Corvette, click around 1:50 if you want to skip all the techno talk.

Start at 1:10 to hear this car.

They show off the Test Drive as you ride along with passenger David. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds. you hear everything and nothing. Tesla is very quiet compared to others but the inside of the car and the over all experience is amazing.

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yet the tuning of EV's can offer a wide variety of noises and sounds. Look at the Harley-Davidson Livewire bike. In fact all the new EV Bike builders have created their own sound based on how they built the motors.

I totally expect some silent EV auto's and many will love it, but I also expect some screaming EV performance auto's which plenty of YouTube video's to prove this.

For the noise of this Corvette, click around 1:50 if you want to skip all the techno talk.

Start at 1:10 to hear this car.

They show off the Test Drive as you ride along with passenger David. 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds. you hear everything and nothing. Tesla is very quiet compared to others but the inside of the car and the over all experience is amazing.

I've heard the Harley bike and I've heard EV performance cars and they all sound like garbage compared to an ICE. 

Ming ming zing zing. 

31 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I've heard the Harley bike and I've heard EV performance cars and they all sound like garbage compared to an ICE. 

Ming ming zing zing. 

Start up potential then for you to build custom sounds for the EV generation.  

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Start up potential then for you to build custom sounds for the EV generation.  

That's actually a very valid point! 

Too bad I don't have the skills for that... 

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't think the Bolt EV is soul sucking at all.  It's a hoot to scamper around in because the torque comes on so strong.... more so than any 4-cylinder mid-size.

“But it doesn’t make a loud noise when you stomp on the gas pedal”. 

Thats just one of the many weak excuses I’ve heard regarding EVs

On 11/18/2017 at 7:21 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

You're about 3 decades late.  The Generic Asian Sedan put most of the sameness into cars that we have today. 

..and Detroit's response with Generic Detroit Appliances--like the J-body, N-body, etc., K-cars, etc...forgettable excrement...

21 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

“But it doesn’t make a loud noise when you stomp on the gas pedal”. 

 

Thats just one of the many weak excuses I’ve heard regarding EVs

I'm sure they can tune them to make loud noises.. I'm sure eventually EVs will have tunable soundtracks so you can customize them...make them sound like a Cat diesel or F1 v10 under full throttle, for instance...or how cool would it be to make your Tesla sound like an old beater with a bad lifter and blown muffler? 

15 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

..and Detroit's response with Generic Detroit Appliances--like the J-body, N-body, etc., K-cars, etc...forgettable excrement...

I'm sure they can tune them to make loud noises.. I'm sure eventually EVs will have tunable soundtracks so you can customize them...make them sound like a Cat diesel or F1 v10 under full throttle, for instance...

Could you imagine hackers hacking the noises for that and when you stomp on the go-pedal you get "holla back girl". 

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Could you imagine hackers hacking the noises for that and when you stomp on the go-pedal you get "holla back girl". 

LoL...or have it play the Batman uale uale meme clip audio...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06kXXJUddHQ

@ccap41—Care to explain the problem with my last post? I have literally heard those words said by folks who hate EVs (not just here) so I’m curious as to rationale here. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Could you imagine hackers hacking the noises for that and when you stomp on the go-pedal you get "holla back girl". 

Can I get one that sounds like a Quad-4 about 10,000 miles overdue for an oil change?

Or one that sounds like a steam engine.

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

@ccap41—Care to explain the problem with my last post? I have literally heard those words said by folks who hate EVs (not just here) so I’m curious as to rationale here. 

It isn't a "weak excuse" in my book. Exhaust note, intake note and the sound of an engine pulling from 1000rpm to redline is exhilerating and a silent EV or one that sounds like one that dfelt posted just doesn't do the same thing. They may be wicked and insanely quick but they don't give off the same feeling that the rumble of a cammed LS/LT engine does. 

Ever walk through a parking lot minding your own business and you hear some nasty muscle car pull in just loping around at idle with a cam that sound like it could die? Or go to the NHRA Top fuel events where you feel the cars go past in your chest and you need ear protection because they're just that damn loud? Yeah, I get that the silence of EVs have their place and they will be phenomenal daily drivers but they will always be lacking in the noise and literal vibration department. NVH will be too good in them. 

39 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Can I get one that sounds like a Quad-4 about 10,000 miles overdue for an oil change?

Or one that sounds like a steam engine.

You can make them sound like anything with the correct sound system! 

Maybe I could get a cammed small block sound with an EV.. I just might need a sub woofer somewhere on the exterior.. 

Maybe only 1% of drivers care what the engine sounds like...99% of drivers just want it to work and the noise to not intrude on the sound system.   More work needs to be done on quieting HVAC fans IMO...the loud noise of AC or heat on full gets old in many cars.. I'm all for maximizing sound deadening--I hate when automakers don't put enough sound deadening with the excuse of saving weight or saving cost.  

5 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe only 1% of drivers care what the engine sounds like...99% of drivers just want it to work and the noise to not intrude on the sound system.   More work needs to be done on quieting HVAC fans IMO...the loud noise of AC or heat on full gets old in many cars.. I'm all for maximizing sound deadening--I hate when automakers don't put enough sound deadening with the excuse of saving weight or saving cost.  

**Cough** Honda **cough**

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

**Cough** Honda **cough**

I can't think of the last Honda I've ridden in...maybe be a Pilot from about 2007. Are Hondas particularly noisy?     

Maybe it's part of getting older, but I really appreciate smooth and quiet in a vehicle more than noisy... 

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't a "weak excuse" in my book. Exhaust note, intake note and the sound of an engine pulling from 1000rpm to redline is exhilerating and a silent EV or one that sounds like one that dfelt posted just doesn't do the same thing. They may be wicked and insanely quick but they don't give off the same feeling that the rumble of a cammed LS/LT engine does. 

Ever walk through a parking lot minding your own business and you hear some nasty muscle car pull in just loping around at idle with a cam that sound like it could die? Or go to the NHRA Top fuel events where you feel the cars go past in your chest and you need ear protection because they're just that damn loud? Yeah, I get that the silence of EVs have their place and they will be phenomenal daily drivers but they will always be lacking in the noise and literal vibration department. NVH will be too good in them. 

You can make them sound like anything with the correct sound system! 

Maybe I could get a cammed small block sound with an EV.. I just might need a sub woofer somewhere on the exterior.. 

It is a weak excuse given that even ICE cars like the Mustang have sound replicators blaring through your stereo speakers because the engines are so throroughly sound deadened. It’s also weak because the same people who were saying this drove little four banger cars. These days whenever I hear that racket in a parking lot (or down the street from my house on a daily basis), I just wish they’d shut the hell up. 

16 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe only 1% of drivers care what the engine sounds like...99% of drivers just want it to work and the noise to not intrude on the sound system.   More work needs to be done on quieting HVAC fans IMO...the loud noise of AC or heat on full gets old in many cars.. I'm all for maximizing sound deadening--I hate when automakers don't put enough sound deadening with the excuse of saving weight or saving cost.  

Exactly and the 1% does not nor has it ever dictated advancements like this and it’s not going to start today.