Genesis G70 is Korea's 3-Series Challenger

  On 9/19/2017 at 12:54 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

GM has two luxury brands in China... GM still outsells Mercedes there. 

I'm talking about the economies of scale of the 3.6 V6, CUE (most of the underlying programming is identical to Mylink and IntelliLink), transmissions and stuff.  That GM 8-speed and 9-speed are going into everything. A lot of the innards that drivers never see are shared with 3 other crossovers with more to come. 

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Oh right, I forgot that Buick is a luxury brand even though the $16,700 Excelle and $20,600 Verano where 547,000 of Buicks 1.2 million Chinese market sales came from. By that measure, the VW Jetta is a luxury car too.

First bar move (all of this is paraphrased btw)  

"Mercedes outsells Cadillac in China"

responded with

"Buick outsells them both by light years"

Second bar move

"Well FWD CUVs will phase out and Benz will rule all" and "Buick is not luxury" (even though their cars get compared and cross shopped with MBs FWD offerings)  

Just kick the damn bar over already and be done with it. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 12:58 AM, smk4565 said:

Envision is a bit cheaper than a GLC or Cadillac.  But I brought it up because of economies of scale.  Mercedes has plenty of economies of scale.

Once upon a time the Deville outsold the E-class and C-class combined in the USA, and in time the front drive luxury sedans have basically died off.  One day these front drive luxury crossovers will fall too, except maybe for the sub $45k market, they'll hold on, but in the end the rear drive always wins in luxury.

Speaking of economies of scale, if Cadillacs crossovers are all front wheel drive, where do they get economies of scale on rear drive cars?  The Camaro is a shrinking market, this 3-series segment has a dozen entries in it, and the mid-size luxury sedan segment is shrinking.

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ATS and CTS are on the same platform.  Transmissions, engines, shared up and down the line...  you can get the same powertrain ATS, CTS, CT6.  The transmission is the 8L45 which is a light duty version of the 8L90 which is used in all of the 1500 series trucks, and Canyonado , plus the ATS-V and CTS-V.  The 2.0T is used in lots of stuff, so is the 3.6.  The only engines that haven't been borrowed from Cadillac yet are the 3.0T and 3.6T. 

The AWD system in the XT5 is the same twin-clutch system in the Lacrosse and Acadia All-Terrain, it's made by a third party, and also used in the Focus RS plus a few other brands, no worries about economies of scale there. 

Your prediction that FWD based crossovers will die off is wrong. Mercedes, BMW, and Infiniti just added to the count. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:10 AM, smk4565 said:

Oh right, I forgot that Buick is a luxury brand even though the $16,700 Excelle and $20,600 Verano where 547,000 of Buicks 1.2 million Chinese market sales came from. By that measure, the VW Jetta is a luxury car too.

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As @surreal1272 warned you, be careful where you move those goalposts to. Mercedes builds vinyl laden taxis and for years built silly little things like the A-Class and B-Class. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:10 AM, surreal1272 said:

A bit cheaper and outsells the others by mere light years. Yeah, completely comparable. 

 

And I don't care about "once upon a time". 

 

And big words on FWD vehicles when Benz is increasing their FWD sedan stable. 

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So front wheel drive is bad for sedans, but good for crossovers?  You seem to hate on Mercedes front drive entry level car, but defend Cadillac's move to use it in mid-size crossover.

Personally I wouldn't even consider a front drive car, but I won't consider buying a CLA/GLA either.  The market in the $30-40k space doesn't care though as most buyers don't notice the difference.   

Chevy makes the Spark and Sonic, does that somehow hurt the Corvette and make it crap because the Sonic is a 138 hp front driver?  Mercedes makes like 20 models with a 500+ hp V8/V12 if they make 2 with a 208 hp fwd 4-cyldinder I don't think it a big deal.  

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:14 AM, surreal1272 said:

First bar move (all of this is paraphrased btw)  

"Mercedes outsells Cadillac in China"

 

responded with

"Buick outsells them both by light years"

 

Second bar move

"Well FWD CUVs will phase out and Benz will rule all" and "Buick is not luxury" (even though their cars get compared and cross shopped with MBs FWD offerings)  

 

Just kick the damn bar over already and be done with it. 

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VW outsells Buick in China, so what?  Buick doesn't sell their cars at Mercedes price point in China, or here.  No bar has been moved.  I made a Cadillac vs Lexus vs Mercedes comparison.  If Buick was a luxury brand, GM wouldn't need Cadillac, but Cadillac is still here, because they need a luxury brand.

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:17 AM, smk4565 said:

So front wheel drive is bad for sedans, but good for crossovers?  You seem to hate on Mercedes front drive entry level car, but defend Cadillac's move to use it in mid-size crossover.

Personally I wouldn't even consider a front drive car, but I won't consider buying a CLA/GLA either.  The market in the $30-40k space doesn't care though as most buyers don't notice the difference.   

Chevy makes the Spark and Sonic, does that somehow hurt the Corvette and make it crap because the Sonic is a 138 hp front driver?  Mercedes makes like 20 models with a 500+ hp V8/V12 if they make 2 with a 208 hp fwd 4-cyldinder I don't think it a big deal.  

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Actually you will not see me defending that once. I am pointing out sales and how you keep moving the bar to suit your argument. Big difference there because I have been very clear about my disdain for CUVs on this site. 

Btw, that very same argument can be applied to you in reverse. 

And in yet another bar move, you attempt to compare mainstream brand Chevy to luxury maker Mercedes. I have no words for the pure grade A bull$h! fallacy of that "argument". 

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:15 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

ATS and CTS are on the same platform.  Transmissions, engines, shared up and down the line...  you can get the same powertrain ATS, CTS, CT6.  The transmission is the 8L45 which is a light duty version of the 8L90 which is used in all of the 1500 series trucks, and Canyonado , plus the ATS-V and CTS-V.  The 2.0T is used in lots of stuff, so is the 3.6.  The only engines that haven't been borrowed from Cadillac yet are the 3.0T and 3.6T. 

The AWD system in the XT5 is the same twin-clutch system in the Lacrosse and Acadia All-Terrain, it's made by a third party, and also used in the Focus RS plus a few other brands, no worries about economies of scale there. 

Your prediction that FWD based crossovers will die off is wrong. Mercedes, BMW, and Infiniti just added to the count. 

As @surreal1272 warned you, be careful where you move those goalposts to. Mercedes builds vinyl laden taxis and for years built silly little things like the A-Class and B-Class. 

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No doubt GM has massive economies of scale on front drive.  On rear drive they have Camaro/ATS/CTS on one chassis and CT6 on another.  That isn't a lot of volume on those platforms.  Sure they can share the transmission with the pickups, but the 3.6 is outclassed by Cadillac's competition so that leaves them with turbo V6s that get criticized in a lot of reviews and no V8, because there is no volume to justify a Cadillac only V8, let alone a V12 or hybrid drivetrain.  

Mercedes might build B-class taxis but they build $150k sports cars and S-class sedans and $240k V12 G-wagens.  They have the top end, Buick and even Cadillac don't have that high end. Although I would love to see Cadillac make a $150,000 car, at this point I don't even care if it is coupe, sedan, or SUV, just do something.

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:37 AM, smk4565 said:

No doubt GM has massive economies of scale on front drive.  On rear drive they have Camaro/ATS/CTS on one chassis and CT6 on another.  That isn't a lot of volume on those platforms.

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How many platforms are in the German lineups? Is the 3/4 Series on one? C Class on one? Or do those share platforms with the 5/6 and E Class? I honestly don't know. 

How many of those V12's have ever been sold? I doubt they are selling THAT many S65's and G65's. It's just an old engine now. That was probably the only way they could justify making it. Make sure they use it for 10 years. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 2:20 AM, ccap41 said:

How many platforms are in the German lineups? Is the 3/4 Series on one? C Class on one? Or do those share platforms with the 5/6 and E Class? I honestly don't know. 

How many of those V12's have ever been sold? I doubt they are selling THAT many S65's and G65's. It's just an old engine now. That was probably the only way they could justify making it. Make sure they use it for 10 years. 

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I don't know how many BMW has, but the 7-seires platform is shared with Rolls, and a cut down version is used for the 5-series.  Plus their inline 4 and inline six share a ton of parts.

Mercedes has the MFA platform for A-class/B-class, which is also shared with Renault and the Infiniti QX-whatever the small one is.  The MRA platform is under the C-class, GLC, E-class and S-class, the GLE/GLS are on another platform, G-wagen on a platform, SL, SLC and AMG GT are each on their own platform, but SLC is dying and SL and GT I think are merging to one platform in the next gen.  They also are switching to inline six because it will share 70% of the parts with the inline 4.  The Mercedes V12 is about a $60,000 option over an AMG V8 car, I would say the profit margin is sick on those.

I think every VW, Audi, and Bentley share one platform.  Well maybe not, but the VW Atlas full size SUV is built on a Golf platform.  And that is true, I am not making that up.

Pick a goal post and stick with it. You're all over the map SMK! We get it, you think that no matter what GM does, Mercedes does it better, and you'll make up every excuse or strawman argument in the book when you're shown to be wrong.

He won't.. he will continually move the post in either direction so long as it accommodates Benz or the Germans. GM, a downsized company.. leaner than ever.. managed too pull in $12Billion last year still with lawsuits from ignition over its head. For '17 they are at about $4 Billion (for Q1 and 2) down slightly because of the Opel sale, still a strong possibility to pull off $8-9Bil for the year

GM have been historically about their truck sales more than anything else.. RWD TRUCK sales in the U.S. alone accounted for about 1.3 Million sales last year. IMO, car RWD sales are a luxury that GM affords.. but the economies of scale are carried forward generation after generation. That being.. these platforms are not costing them the billions upon billions that everyone whats to throw on them. Alpha and Omega are similar in many regards to the each other with the exception of certain weight saving techs that came about after alpha was already on the market.. bet good money that Alpha2 is going to be basically a scaled down version of Omega. I have also been told several times by GM insiders that technically a great deal of Alpha was really SIGMA.. as Sigma was a revised version of ZETA.. (or was it vice-versa?) 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:22 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

Pick a goal post and stick with it. You're all over the map SMK! We get it, you think that no matter what GM does, Mercedes does it better, and you'll make up every excuse or strawman argument in the book when you're shown to be wrong.

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The bar moving is simply baffling nad unprecedented and that is saying something given the history of rabid fanboys I have seen over the years. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 1:37 AM, smk4565 said:

Mercedes might build E-class taxis but they build $150k sports cars and S-class sedans and $240k V12 G-wagens.  They have the top end, Buick and even Cadillac don't have that high end. 

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Correct your Error AGAIN on the Taxis, E-CLASS,

Plus as has been proven with Pictures by Drew, The Crappy G-Wagon is built with mismatched screws, poor fit n finish and is not as amazing and godly as you proclaim.

Your being blind to the truth that MB is just another Mass market maker now and no longer a luxury brand only. Moving the goalposts to fit your warped vision.

@smk4565

Will help you out with the Truth as this was first published in 2014 when MB stated they were moving to 4 platforms by 2017.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-will-switch-to-just-four-car-platforms-78508.html

To Quote:

In a bid to reduce both the costs and the speed of development for new models, the three-pointed star car maker is hard at work in developing four different modular passenger car platforms which will cover their entire ever-expanding lineup. 

The MFA (Modular Front Architecture) platform currently consists of the A-Class, B-Class, CLA-Class and the recently-unveiled GLA-Class, with an upcoming CLA Shooting Brake to complement the rest of the models later this year. A not-yet-confirmed SLA Roadster might be part of the second generation of the MFA platform, which is set to arrive in 2017.

The MRA (Modular Rear Architecture) platform debuted with the all-new Mercedes-Benz C-Class W205, featuring an extensive use of aluminium and a dramatic decrease in weight. It is presumably a lot more flexible than the fixed-wheelbase MFA, with Daimler's Thomas Weber being quoted as saying that over ten different vehicles could be manufactured on the MRA platform, as it allows engineers to differentiate them with different wheelbases and even body width. 

The MHA (Modular High Architecture) platform will be used on future large crossovers and SUVs from Mercedes-Benz, including the upcoming MLC crossover, which should be unveiled in 2015 and built alongside the ML, GL and C-Class W205 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The next generations of the ML and GL will also be manufactured on the MHA platform, with smaller crossover/SUVs to be built either on the MRA (upcoming GLK X205 and a GLC competitor for the BMW X4) or the MFA (the GLA X156) platforms. 

The MSA (Modular Sports Architecture) platform will also use a hefty amount of aluminium but also carbon fiber reinforced plastic to decrease weight even more. The future generation of the SLK might switch from using a modified C-Class platform to the MSA, along with the Mercedes-Benz SL Roadster R232, but nothing is confirmed as of yet.

Interesting is that motorauthority interviewed MB CEO and this is what he stated as an update:

In future, Mercedes will only use two platforms, explained Bernhard. These will be the new Front Wheel Architecture (MFA), used for small cars and featured already in the third-generation A Class and B Class models, as well as a flexible Mercedes Rear Wheel Architecture (MRA) that will cover the rest of Mercedes’ lineup and will debut later this year in the next-generation S Class.

Finally, Bernhard said that more production will take place outside of Europe. Currently, 90 percent of Mercedes’ lineup is built in Europe and almost of all its engines are. By 2020, only 50 percent of its lineup will be built in Europe and around 60 percent of its engines. Key areas for increased production will be the NAFTA region and China. On top of this, there will also be greater co-operation with partners such as Renault-Nissan.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1074706_mercedes-to-halve-its-number-of-platforms-by-2015

Yet this story came out before the one above so even MB is not really sure what they are doing.

Euro Auto news states this which seems to be most current.:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20140910/ANE/140919998/mercedes-reorganizes-manufacturing-operations-to-reduce-costs

So End Result is MB is using 4 platforms for their auto's and 1 Powertrain line across all of them so from the cheapest Toyota, Chevy Ford competition of an A - Class to the top of the line S-Class they all have the same engine in one way or another sharing parts and doing the same thing as everyone else.

Looks like VW with their singular Modular platform to be used on all VW, Audi and Porsche will beat MB in Efficiency for Germany and Europe.

  On 9/19/2017 at 2:23 PM, dfelt said:

The Crappy G-Wagon is built with mismatched screws, poor fit n finish and is not as amazing and godly as you proclaim.

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The gf's isn't fit with mismatches screws or poor fit and finish. Things fit as they should and with 180k miles on it there still aren't squeaks or rattles. Plus, its a vehicle you could fit in. The roof is like a mile high. 

If you ask me, 4 platforms across their entire brand is pretty impressive. They have so many vehicles there isn't a single hole in their lineup from the cheap CLA to the bonkers Maybach AMG. It's safe to assume that the G is the only one on its own platform along with the AMG GT but with the G being 800 years old I'd say its safe to assume that's been paid for long ago. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 2:23 PM, dfelt said:

Correct your Error AGAIN on the Taxis, E-CLASS,

Plus as has been proven with Pictures by Drew, The Crappy G-Wagon is built with mismatched screws, poor fit n finish and is not as amazing and godly as you proclaim.

Your being blind to the truth that MB is just another Mass market maker now and no longer a luxury brand only. Moving the goalposts to fit your warped vision.

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Said it a thousand times.. only in the U.S. is Mercedes considered a Luxo-Only maker. They are essentially Chevy/GMC/Cadillac/Buick.. just on a smaller scale

  On 9/19/2017 at 2:23 PM, dfelt said:

Correct your Error AGAIN on the Taxis, E-CLASS,

Plus as has been proven with Pictures by Drew, The Crappy G-Wagon is built with mismatched screws, poor fit n finish and is not as amazing and godly as you proclaim.

Your being blind to the truth that MB is just another Mass market maker now and no longer a luxury brand only. Moving the goalposts to fit your warped vision.

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While talking about the the high end that Cadillac doesn't have, he will completely sidestep the low end that Cadillac also doesn't have (Looking at you FWD CLA, A Class, and Metris).

"Look ma! There's a bar over there! Can I just kick it for the hell of it?"

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:12 PM, ccap41 said:

The gf's isn't fit with mismatches screws or poor fit and finish. Things fit as they should and with 180k miles on it there still aren't squeaks or rattles. Plus, its a vehicle you could fit in. The roof is like a mile high. 

If you ask me, 4 platforms across their entire brand is pretty impressive. They have so many vehicles there isn't a single hole in their lineup from the cheap CLA to the bonkers Maybach AMG. It's safe to assume that the G is the only one on its own platform along with the AMG GT but with the G being 800 years old I'd say its safe to assume that's been paid for long ago. 

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U are quickly becoming an apologetic sap for these German brands when evidence constantly proves U wrong. I guess U are trying to be a devil's advocate.. but...The first pic is the one that had me laughing the hardest.. fuck using it as a cup holder.. cut the bottom out and let's play Hoops using balled up receipts  Pathetic people ever make a negative statement about an GMT800 Tahoe again, let alone an Escalade or Denali.. or a 900 or K2xx

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:12 PM, ccap41 said:

The gf's isn't fit with mismatches screws or poor fit and finish. Things fit as they should and with 180k miles on it there still aren't squeaks or rattles. Plus, its a vehicle you could fit in. The roof is like a mile high. 

If you ask me, 4 platforms across their entire brand is pretty impressive. They have so many vehicles there isn't a single hole in their lineup from the cheap CLA to the bonkers Maybach AMG. It's safe to assume that the G is the only one on its own platform along with the AMG GT but with the G being 800 years old I'd say its safe to assume that's been paid for long ago. 

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There aren't squeaks and rattles because you can tighten everything up with a penknife every time you stop for gas. 

I don't blame MB for selling these.... if they can get suckers to buy them for $110k+, more power to them.  But don't let's hold the G-Wagon up as some marvel of engineering. John Deeres run forever also. 

Hahah! We posted the same pics at the same time.

Here's the whole thread for those who are interested. Mercedes G-Class quality

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:46 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

 

There aren't squeaks and rattles because you can tighten everything up with a penknife every time you stop for gas. 

 

 

I don't blame MB for selling these.... if they can get suckers to buy them for $110k+, more power to them.  But don't let's hold the G-Wagon up as some marvel of engineering. John Deere's run forever also. 

 

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SUCKERS is the key word. Its for the suburbanite who has to tackle the sand dunes at the local Costco, Dunkin, or higher end Crate and Barrel 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:12 PM, ccap41 said:

The gf's isn't fit with mismatches screws or poor fit and finish. Things fit as they should and with 180k miles on it there still aren't squeaks or rattles. Plus, its a vehicle you could fit in. The roof is like a mile high. 

If you ask me, 4 platforms across their entire brand is pretty impressive. They have so many vehicles there isn't a single hole in their lineup from the cheap CLA to the bonkers Maybach AMG. It's safe to assume that the G is the only one on its own platform along with the AMG GT but with the G being 800 years old I'd say its safe to assume that's been paid for long ago. 

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Glad your girlfriend has a solid 180K miles G-Wagon and that fit n finish is up to your standard.

Drew had posted the last time SMK bragged about how great the G-Wagon was over everything else and moving his goal posts pictures from the actual auto show floor that showed mismatched screws and poor fit n finish.

MB is no different than GM or FORD, they make some great auto's and they also totally flub up and build crap. They are also again no different than Toyota, GM, Ford or VW in that they build from entry level auto's to top end and not everything is the best of the best of the best.

Crap happens!

Dude every time Smk says something about Benz fit and finish... I think I will reference how this ... 

SMDH

wasn't even a step up from this from the 1970s-80s

GWagon.. the Official vehicle of the... ABA.. no not the BAR ASSOCIATION.. the outdated and defunct 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:12 PM, ccap41 said:

The gf's isn't fit with mismatches screws or poor fit and finish. Things fit as they should and with 180k miles on it there still aren't squeaks or rattles. Plus, its a vehicle you could fit in. The roof is like a mile high. 

If you ask me, 4 platforms across their entire brand is pretty impressive. They have so many vehicles there isn't a single hole in their lineup from the cheap CLA to the bonkers Maybach AMG. It's safe to assume that the G is the only one on its own platform along with the AMG GT but with the G being 800 years old I'd say its safe to assume that's been paid for long ago. 

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Right and the G-wagon is going to the MHA platform I think, it is getting a new chassis for the first time in 40 years with the 2019 model.

There is a 5th platform for electric cars that will carry 10 models on it. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:56 PM, smk4565 said:

Right and the G-wagon is going to the MHA platform I think, it is getting a new chassis for the first time in 40 years with the 2019 model.

There is a 5th platform for electric cars that will carry 10 models on it. 

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So instantly U forgive them for selling people shit... for minimum the last 20 years. And that's me giving them the benefit of the doubt that a platform that was engineered during the Carter Admin was good up to the Bush I admin

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:46 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

 

There aren't squeaks and rattles because you can tighten everything up with a penknife every time you stop for gas. 

 

 

I don't blame MB for selling these.... if they can get suckers to buy them for $110k+, more power to them.  But don't let's hold the G-Wagon up as some marvel of engineering. John Deere's run forever also. 

 

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Exactly and over half of G-wagons sold are AMG so that is a $140k starting price before options.  On a vehicle that has been paid off long ago.  This is the easiest money in the whole auto industry.  And this because Mercedes is a desirable brand and the G is a highly desirable product. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:00 PM, smk4565 said:

Exactly and over half of G-wagons sold are AMG so that is a $140k starting price before options.  On a vehicle that has been paid off long ago.  This is the easiest money in the whole auto industry.  And this because Mercedes is a desirable brand and the G is a highly desirable product. 

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In his defense I think the SUCKER he was talking about was U... I kno for a FACT.. that I certainly was. But then again.. make no mistake.. I'd certainly take this:

  over this...:

if the Benz was free.. simply to find a SUCKER like U and sell it to so I could, buy the 'Slade...  pocket the $45K difference to get a sweet new:

to use as DD 

The Escalade would be my DD, but I get your point.

No, I don't care that the G-Wagon can go pining for the fjords.... The amount of off-roading I do even my CR-V can handle. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:46 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

U are quickly becoming an apologetic sap for these German brands when evidence constantly proves U wrong. I guess U are trying to be a devil's advocate.. but...The first pic is the one that had me laughing the hardest.. f@#k using it as a cup holder.. cut the bottom out and let's play Hoops using balled up receipts  Pathetic people ever make a negative statement about an GMT800 Tahoe again, let alone an Escalade or Denali.. or a 900 or K2xx

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Like you say every single time with your personal Cadillac experience, get out and drive one and be in one regularly and them come talk to me.   Anybody can find bad pictures on the internet about almost any vehicle. Shall we find quality control issues on Cadillacs? 

That cup holder is a fckn joke though. I literally laugh about it because it's such a joke. It holds...almost nothing..

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:46 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

There aren't squeaks and rattles because you can tighten everything up with a penknife every time you stop for gas. 

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Hell yeah you can! 

Everybody here complains about how overly complex vehicles and their systems get and how technology is ruining the driver's car and when there's one vehicle which keeps it old school(and the Wrangler!) people get on it for that too. There's just no winning with people. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:49 PM, dfelt said:

Drew had posted the last time SMK bragged about how great the G-Wagon was over everything else and moving his goal posts pictures from the actual auto show floor that showed mismatched screws and poor fit n finish.

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Drew has also mentioned that it isn't an uncommon occurrence to see things like this on auto show floors as most aren't finished vehicles/concepts/prototypes/vehicles that will never be for sale. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 3:59 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

So instantly U forgive them for selling people $h!... for minimum the last 20 years. And that's me giving them the benefit of the doubt that a platform that was engineered during the Carter Admin was good up to the Bush I admin

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At least MB knows how to convince people to buy $h!. Cadillac should take note. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:13 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The Escalade would be my DD, but I get your point.

No, I don't care that the G-Wagon can go pining for the fjords.... The amount of off-roading I do even my CR-V can handle. 

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So never buy to consider anything cool because you don't do it often? That's the least enthusiast-like thing you've ever said. If we all did that we would all be in Camrys and Fusions(and Casa can get a Malibu, because Chevy). 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:21 PM, ccap41 said:

Hell yeah you can! 

Everybody here complains about how overly complex vehicles and their systems get and how technology is ruining the driver's car and when there's one vehicle which keeps it old school(and the Wrangler!) people get on it for that too. There's just no winning with people. 

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No, I don't mind old school vehicles at all. I often prefer to drive my '81 over either of my newer cars.  I *love* old cars.

If the G-Wagon was priced like a Wrangler, even only double the Wrangler, you wouldn't hear a peep of complaint out of me..... but $140k?  That's 3.5 very nicely equipped wranglers.   You could literally buy one of each model Trailhawk that Jeep sells (there are 4) plus a Wrangler unlimited and still pay less money than a single G-Wagon. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:27 PM, ccap41 said:

At least MB knows how to convince people to buy $h!. Cadillac should take note. 

So never buy to consider anything cool because you don't do it often? That's the least enthusiast-like thing you've ever said. If we all did that we would all be in Camrys and Fusions(and Casa can get a Malibu, because Chevy). 

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You misunderstand me.  My objection to the G-Wagon is only to the price of the thing compared to the way it is built.... especially since the tooling was paid off before you were born.  I like the Wrangler for a weekend of fun, but I'd never own one as a DD.  Just because I don't want one as a daily driver doesn't mean I can't appreciate it for other things. 

So pretty much every thread comes to MB vs Caddy right now ...

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:21 PM, ccap41 said:

That cup holder is a fckn joke though. I literally laugh about it because it's such a joke. It holds...almost nothing..

Drew has also mentioned that it isn't an uncommon occurrence to see things like this on auto show floors as most aren't finished vehicles/concepts/prototypes/vehicles that will never be for sale. 

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Yet these pictures are not just from a search of the Internet, these are pictures taken by Drew at the auto show of a production G-Wagon available for sale.

Your Right MB built a joke of a cup holder, plenty of the G-Wagon is great, but plenty is also a Joke and just pathetic.

Your right about old school as I do love the Wrangler and older SUV's that are much more simpler before the Gov's became Nanny device crazy trying to protect you at ever turn, every foot forward or back. 

Auto Craziness with the nanny devices.

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:34 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

If the G-Wagon was priced like a Wrangler, even only double the Wrangler, you wouldn't hear a peep of complaint out of me..... but $140k?  That's 3.5 very nicely equipped wranglers.   You could literally buy one of each model Trailhawk that Jeep sells (there are 4) plus a Wrangler unlimited and still pay less money than a single G-Wagon. 

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There's no reason to sell it that cheap though... Between a leather lined interior, electronic locking front and rear and/or together along with a standard v8 and solid axles front and rear there's no reason to because it sells. Plus, they probably couldn't keep up with demand as they're still hand assembled. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:21 PM, ccap41 said:

Drew has also mentioned that it isn't an uncommon occurrence to see things like this on auto show floors as most aren't finished vehicles/concepts/prototypes/vehicles that will never be for sale. 

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These are pictures I took of a production vehicle. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 4:47 PM, ykX said:

So pretty much every thread comes to MB vs Caddy right now ...

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Yup, seems so lately, but then Fall is about to begin so it could change to everything is about NFL or Hockey.  

In regards to Genesis, it will be interesting to watch if they try to mimic the whole BMW product line or just go with a single 3 series competitor and focus on the SUV/CUV run.

SUV/CUV is what I would be focused on with Hybrid/EV options in those that beat the Germans.

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:00 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

These are pictures I took of a production vehicle. 

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At an auto show? 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:01 PM, ccap41 said:

At an auto show? 

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Yes we keep telling you that, Taken at an Auto Show of a Production built G-Wagon available for sale!

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:00 PM, dfelt said:

Yup, seems so lately, but then Fall is about to begin so it could change to everything is about NFL or Hockey.  

In regards to Genesis, it will be interesting to watch if they try to mimic the whole BMW product line or just go with a single 3 series competitor and focus on the SUV/CUV run.

SUV/CUV is what I would be focused on with Hybrid/EV options in those that beat the Germans.

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Well they'll have the G70, 80, and 90. I'm not sure where those all line up but I thought the 90 was more 5 Series size..? Or is it big like the 7/S Class? 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:02 PM, dfelt said:

Yes we keep telling you that, Taken at an Auto Show of a Production built G-Wagon available for sale!

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ohhhhh well somebody is gettin' ripped off. Also, those are some of the most beaten on vehicles one could buy. Who'd want to buy a vehicle that hundreds of people have sat in and fiddled with things? 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:00 PM, ccap41 said:

There's no reason to sell it that cheap though... Between a leather lined interior, electronic locking front and rear and/or together along with a standard v8 and solid axles front and rear there's no reason to because it sells. Plus, they probably couldn't keep up with demand as they're still hand assembled. 

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Right, they're selling it for that much because they can, I don't blame Mercedes for it one bit.  I can still think they are a terrible deal, no?  The reason the G-Wagon keeps coming up is because @smk4565 likes to tout it as "the best" simply because it costs so much.   It is not a luxury vehicle in the same vein as the GLS or Escalade or Range Rover though... it is a luxury vehicle simply because it is a luxury to own such an expensive toy that has few redeeming qualities for everyday use. 

And of course they are hand built.... you could assemble one with a power drill bought at harbor freight. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:02 PM, ccap41 said:

Well they'll have the G70, 80, and 90. I'm not sure where those all line up but I thought the 90 was more 5 Series size..? Or is it big like the 7/S Class? 

ohhhhh well somebody is gettin' ripped off. Also, those are some of the most beaten on vehicles one could buy. Who'd want to buy a vehicle that hundreds of people have sat in and fiddled with things? 

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70 - 3-series sized,

80 - CT6 sized (larger than 5-series, smaller than 7 Long wheel base)

90 - 7-series LWB sized. 

The one on the auto show floor wouldn't be any different mechanically than one at the dealership though... it's not like some visitor snuck in and changed out the screws in the door.   Besides, I go on press days before you riff-raff are allowed in.    (That's obviously a joke, because as @William Maley can tell you, auto journalists can be some of the most obnoxious people you ever meet)

So now that Genesis has their car lineup, Wonder how fast they will turn out a full SUV/CUV lineup and I wonder how soon before the first updates. 

It will be interesting to see how Genesis, AKA Hyundai will do in the Luxury race and how the public will take to it?

Will it become like Lexus with a loyal following but just another low tier luxury line or will they truly raise to the competition and become one of the top 3 luxury auto lines?

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Right, they're selling it for that much because they can, I don't blame Mercedes for it one bit.  I can still think they are a terrible deal, no?  The reason the G-Wagon keeps coming up is because @smk4565 likes to tout it as "the best" simply because it costs so much.   It is not a luxury vehicle in the same vein as the GLS or Escalade or Range Rover though... it is a luxury vehicle simply because it is a luxury to own such an expensive toy that has few redeeming qualities for everyday use. 

 

And of course they are hand built.... you could assemble one with a power drill bought at harbor freight. 

 

70 - 3-series sized,

80 - CT6 sized (larger than 5-series, smaller than 7 Long wheel base)

90 - 7-series LWB sized. 

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It is also an outdated $h! of a deal (and proving there are suckers everywhere) when you can pick up a two year G for about half the price of a new one. Barnum was truly right.

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The one on the auto show floor wouldn't be any different mechanically than one at the dealership though... it's not like some visitor snuck in and changed out the screws in the door.   Besides, I go on press days before you riff-raff are allowed in.    (That's obviously a joke, because as @William Maley can tell you, auto journalists can be some of the most obnoxious people you ever meet)

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Us Riff-Raff love what you do, makes us look good when we are not the ones breaking, scratching and overall messing things up.  

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:10 PM, dfelt said:

So now that Genesis has their car lineup, Wonder how fast they will turn out a full SUV/CUV lineup and I wonder how soon before the first updates. 

It will be interesting to see how Genesis, AKA Hyundai will do in the Luxury race and how the public will take to it?

Will it become like Lexus with a loyal following but just another low tier luxury line or will they truly raise to the competition and become one of the top 3 luxury auto lines?

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I believe they are going to lead off with an XT5 sized crossover first. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

toy that has few redeeming qualities for everyday use.

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Insert any fun car ever here. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:11 PM, surreal1272 said:

It is also an outdated $h! of a deal (and proving there are suckers everywhere) when you can pick up a two year G for about half the price of a new one. Barnum was truly right.

 

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So true that a sucker is born every day.

For that coin, I would still take a brand new Escalade over this!

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:13 PM, ccap41 said:

Insert any fun car ever here. 

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No, not really.  Plenty of people use Mustangs, Camaros, Wranglers, and even F-150 Raptors as daily drivers.    The G-wagon is a ginormous gas hog, rides poorly, and built the same way they built cars in 1975.  The main redeeming quality is you can buy most replacement parts off the HELP! rack at Walmart. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

 

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  On 9/19/2017 at 5:04 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The one on the auto show floor wouldn't be any different mechanically than one at the dealership though... it's not like some visitor snuck in and changed out the screws in the door.

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That's not what you or anybody else is complaining about though. The mechanical bits of the G are it's highest selling points(even though none of the buyers will use those for what they're designed for). But being on a floor where hundres of people will fiddle with and fondle if some jabroni cracks something and the only thing on hand is a different screw to hold on the other reflector(because ANOTHER jabroni dropped and lost the first one) you're going to use a different screw because it means absolutely nothing. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:11 PM, surreal1272 said:

when you can pick up a two year G for about half the price of a new one

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That's the only way to buy any luxury car, if you ask me. It was literally what the gf's parents did. I think theirs was 4-5 years old and paid 50k or 55k. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:17 PM, ccap41 said:

 

That's not what you or anybody else is complaining about though. The mechanical bits of the G are it's highest selling points(even though none of the buyers will use those for what they're designed for). But being on a floor where hundres of people will fiddle with and fondle if some jabroni cracks something and the only thing on hand is a different screw to hold on the other reflector(because ANOTHER jabroni dropped and lost the first one) you're going to use a different screw because it means absolutely nothing. 

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Give me a little credit here.  This wasn't my first time at the rodeo.  LA Auto Show is in a few months. If you really want, I'll take more pics for you. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:16 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

No, not really.  Plenty of people use Mustangs, Camaros, Wranglers, and even F-150 Raptors as daily drivers.    The G-wagon is a ginormous gas hog, rides poorly, and built the same way they built cars in 1975.  The main redeeming quality is you can buy most replacement parts off the HELP! rack at Walmart. 

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Uhhh yeah... what redeeming qualities does a Camaro or Wrangler offer a daily driver over any sedan or CUV? They ride like $h! and have little to no storage in comparison. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:19 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Give me a little credit here.  This wasn't my first time at the rodeo.  LA Auto Show is in a few months. If you really want, I'll take more pics for you. 

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I'm not discrediting YOU at all, at least I'm not trying to. I'm just saying why there's a possibility that a reflector may have two different screws because it was an auto show car, not at a dealership. 

  On 9/19/2017 at 5:19 PM, ccap41 said:

Uhhh yeah... what redeeming qualities does a Camaro or Wrangler offer a daily driver over any sedan or CUV? They ride like $h! and have little to no storage in comparison. 

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Camaro and Mustang actually ride really nice. I like either of them for a long distance drive.  Wrangler takes its top off, which I'm told can be fun.  The Raptor has at least the abilities that any other truck offers. In any case, for G-Wagon money, I can buy a Camaro, Mustang, Wrangler, and Raptor and still have money left over to fuel all of them for a few years