2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

19 minutes ago, frogger said:

Genesis has the GV80 CUV equivalent of this G80, I believe it starts at just under 50k and is larger than an XT5, same length as a BMW X5.  Have to wonder if they are planning a GV70.  Hopefully a new G90 and GV90 will be here within a few years.

 

GV70 they need badly, it is the biggest segment in luxury cars and they aren’t there.

I am curious to see how the GV80 does.  If it doesn’t do well, I have doubts that they will do a GV90 to take on the Escalade which sells strong, and X7 and GLS.

The big problem for Genesis is they have no current owner buyer pool and a likely limited buyer pool of Sonata and Santa Fe drivers trading way up to G80 and GV80.  So their sales have to come from conquest, and who are they conquesting with no brand image/awareness and a small dealer network?  

4 hours ago, riviera74 said:

VW/Audi, MB and BMW could drop the US market like a bad habit and it would affect them very little.

I believe this is overstated. With the low ownership rate (vs leasing) & high fleet sales in Europe, those brands enjoy much higher margins in the US market that in Europe.

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

They need the GV90 and especially the GV70 now, not in 24-36 months.   Cadillac solved that product gap issue within the last 18 months.

If the GV90 is full size, GV80 is midsize, then a GV70 is compact, might as well do a GV60 for sub-compact. That would then give them a full product portfolio of luxury CUVs as some here have said everyone should have.

Personally, I think the 90, 80 and 70 is fine for 4 door CUV, then a 2 door CUV and that would be a solid product line.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

If the GV90 is full size, GV80 is midsize, then a GV70 is compact, might as well do a GV60 for sub-compact. That would then give them a full product portfolio of luxury CUVs as some here have said everyone should have.

Personally, I think the 90, 80 and 70 is fine for 4 door CUV, then a 2 door CUV and that would be a solid product line.

Sounds like you believe that Cadillac needs a compact AND a subcompact CUV as well in their lineup.  The XT4 (if I remember correctly) is a subcompact CUV, right?

Cadillac for sure could use an XT3.

Genesis really should have GV60 before they do GV90. 

20 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Sounds like you believe that Cadillac needs a compact AND a subcompact CUV as well in their lineup.  The XT4 (if I remember correctly) is a subcompact CUV, right?

I am fine with their lineup and see no need for anything below the XT4. Buick serves the section below that.

On 3/31/2020 at 10:23 AM, balthazar said:

I disagree that the Aurora 'wasn't coupe-like'. It shed the traditional 3-box proportions of a sedan for a very fluid, flowing envelope, like many coupes did. [I eliminated the rear door handle / cut line on the Aurora and darkened the pic so we can focus on the profile/proportions]

Ah, that late 90's Riviera Coupe...she was definitely a looker. Both were way ahead of their time and way outside the box.

Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

The A/gla is Daimler's Buick line.
In fact, damiler should split it and the C-class off into a separate brand. Just call it 'Benz' or even simply 'Daimler', cut all the prices by 20% and really go after toyoter. Stop playing around.

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

So Mercedes best selling models were their absolute cheapest cars. Go figure. That is the result of Buick prices to compete with the lower end market that Cadillac doesn’t have to worry about. That’s was Buick is for. 
 

See how your logic is flawed here?

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

Common Sense and BEST BUSINESS sense would be for Mercedes-Benz to cut from C-Class and below into a Daimler division of low cost auto's and keep Mercedes-Benz a true luxury auto line with entry being the E-Class. Clear distrinction between cheap to mid level prices and the luxury.

WHY IS THIS A CLEAR BUSINESS CASE?

Genesis, clearly building a luxury line above Hyundai.

Genesis is luxury, Hyundai is entry level to mid level.

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The A/gla is Daimler's Buick line.
In fact, damiler should split it and the C-class off into a separate brand. Just call it 'Benz' or even simply 'Daimler', cut all the prices by 20% and really go after toyoter. Stop playing around.

Like how Cadillac went low end with the CT4, XT4 and CT5, 33, 35 and 37k to compete with Camry, RAV4 and Avalon.

Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

What was in the past is in the past.  Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

9 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

What was in the past is in the past.  Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

XT4 sales probably exceed CT4 sales by a lot.  Few buyers are looking for luxury sedans; they want luxury crossovers instead.  The XT4 is mandatory; the CT4 is expendable.

Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

1 minute ago, frogger said:

Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

 

Could be...not sure, does Chevy still have the Sonic sedan? 

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Could be...not sure, does Chevy still have the Sonic sedan? 

Demise has been predicted for a while but it is still around, 8 years on.

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

So Mercedes best selling models were their absolute cheapest cars. Go figure. That is the result of Buick prices to compete with the lower end market that Cadillac doesn’t have to worry about. That’s was Buick is for. 
 

See how your logic is flawed here?

A/GLA are not their best sellers, E-class alone does close to the volume those 2 do combined worldwide.  C and GLC outsell the A's also.

Buick only has 1 product smaller than an XT4, and that is the Encore and Encore GX if you want to call that 2 products. Neither are luxurious, the Encore doesn't  even have a center arm rest for the front passenger seat.  Nor do Buicks have Super Cruise.

I think a CT3 Cadillac would be an absolute bust, however an XT3 would sell.  An XT4 is 182 inches long.  There are several crossovers on market right now in the 165-170 inch long range so XT4 is much bigger than some current crossovers already on market.  

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Common Sense and BEST BUSINESS sense would be for Mercedes-Benz to cut from C-Class and below into a Daimler division of low cost auto's and keep Mercedes-Benz a true luxury auto line with entry being the E-Class. Clear distrinction between cheap to mid level prices and the luxury.

WHY IS THIS A CLEAR BUSINESS CASE?

Genesis, clearly building a luxury line above Hyundai.

Genesis is luxury, Hyundai is entry level to mid level.

Cutting below the E-class would be like Cadillac cutting everything below Escalade.  Makes no sense.  

Also the CLA35/GLB35 can run into the $60,000 range, they aren't so cheap.  

Mercedes has has 9 consecutive years of sales growth, #1 selling premium brand in the world, #1 seller of vehicles over $100k in the world.  I don't think they need to have change a formula that is working.  

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

Cadillac, in theory, should have the highest profit margins of any GM brand.  Just for random numbers, if a Chevy has $1,000 in profit margin, a Buick/GMC $2,000 and a Cadillac $3,000, then GM should want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible because it represents the highest profit margin. 

Not only does Cadillac need a full line to steal sales away from other luxury makes, Cadillac needs a full line to steal sales from Chevy, Buick and GMC.  Every time someone buys a Buick/GMC instead of a Cadillac (or in this case a Cadillac that doesn't exist) GM is losing potential profit.  And I am talking like for like vehicle, not a Yukon Denali vs a CT4.  Every Encore or Terrain sold that wasn't an XT3 is lost profit.  And as a side note, GMC needs and SUV smaller than the Terrain.

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac, in theory, should have the highest profit margins of any GM brand.  Just for random numbers, if a Chevy has $1,000 in profit margin, a Buick/GMC $2,000 and a Cadillac $3,000, then GM should want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible because it represents the highest profit margin. 

Not only does Cadillac need a full line to steal sales away from other luxury makes, Cadillac needs a full line to steal sales from Chevy, Buick and GMC.  Every time someone buys a Buick/GMC instead of a Cadillac (or in this case a Cadillac that doesn't exist) GM is losing potential profit.  And I am talking like for like vehicle, not a Yukon Denali vs a CT4.  Every Encore or Terrain sold that wasn't an XT3 is lost profit.  And as a side note, GMC needs and SUV smaller than the Terrain.

Stealing sales from within your own company shows just how idiotic your business sense or lake of sense is.

Having a proper rounded portfolio that takes sales from competition not from within the family of products is how business is and should be run.

Your comments make one question if you have any college education at all in understanding how to run a business.

1 hour ago, frogger said:

Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

 

That is a very good question.  This will be a close one, I think Malibu will die at the end of this life cycle because the mid-size sedan segment is competitive, Camry, Accord, Sonata, Optima are all strong, Subaru has loyal buyers, Nissan will stay in because they get a lot of fleet sales and have global scale.  For GM to keep the Malibu competitive it will cost a lot, they won't spend that.  

I do think GM may keep a Spark/Sonic type car around because down at that price point $15,000ish there isn't really any strong competition, they are mostly rental fleet or pizza delivery cars or something where buyers don't demand anything, and they can build that car in South Korea or China on the cheap and maybe keep that profitable.

I'd say even money odds as to which GM kills first the CT4 or Spark/Sonic.  The wildcard could be introduction of an EV sedan that is like $30k if batteries get cheaper.

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Stealing sales from within your own company shows just how idiotic your business sense or lake of sense is.

Having a proper rounded portfolio that takes sales from competition not from within the family of products is how business is and should be run.

Your comments make one question if you have any college education at all in understanding how to run a business.

Once upon a time, BMW sold over 10,000 3-series a month, and the X3 didn't exist.  Now the 3/4 series sell maybe $5k units a month, but the X3 sells another 6-7,000 units at a price higher than the 3-series.  BMW made a product that stole sales from their own model, but did so at a higher price and higher profit margin.

If Cadillac made an XT3 that brings in new buyers that otherwise never would have bought a Cadillac, and also takes 10,000 sales off Buick/GMC at an additional $1,000 per car, then Cadillac just made GM $10 million in extra profit.  This is why GMC and Denali exists, to take sales away from Chevy and make more money because they can jack the price up more on the same product.

5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

Non-sequitor. Cadillac is not a singular, stand-alone corporation, but 'one knife in the drawer'. BMW/MB/Audi have to reach way downmarket to keep the factories humming. A8/A7 sales aren't doing it anymore.

And entry-level cars do not 'get people in the brand who then move up'; that's a disproven myth.

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cutting below the E-class would be like Cadillac cutting everything below Escalade.  Makes no sense.  

Also the CLA35/GLB35 can run into the $60,000 range, they aren't so cheap.  

Mercedes has has 9 consecutive years of sales growth, #1 selling premium brand in the world, #1 seller of vehicles over $100k in the world.  I don't think they need to have change a formula that is working.  

Did you seriously just compare a $50K E Class to a $90K Escalade? You really have been brainwashed by that Daimler “logic”. 

 

And damn it! There it goes again. Here we have an article and thread about the Genesis G80 and you’re still talking about Daimler like they are paying you by the letter. Scratch everything I said prior that was unrelated to the G80. This is just beyond dumb at this point. F Benz and the sorry excuses you continue to make for them. This is about the Genesis. 

If I had the coin and was in the market for a large, luxury sedan, I would be crazy not to give this a legitimate opportunity. 

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

If I had the coin and was in the market for a large, luxury sedan, I would be crazy not to give this a legitimate opportunity. 

Well...you are not doing badly for yourself. 

You've picked up a used  previously owned newish Lincoln MKC and a used  previously owned  newish Mercedes G Wagon for little money.    You have greatly seized your opportunities, Id say...   

In pictures and video this is more to my liking than other 50-60k sedans I can think of, and I could probably say the same for the GV80 compared to 50-70k CUV's.

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Did you seriously just compare a $50K E Class to a $90K Escalade? You really have been brainwashed by that Daimler “logic”. 

 

And damn it! There it goes again. Here we have an article and thread about the Genesis G80 and you’re still talking about Daimler like they are paying you by the letter. Scratch everything I said prior that was unrelated to the G80. This is just beyond dumb at this point. F Benz and the sorry excuses you continue to make for them. This is about the Genesis. 

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

22 hours ago, balthazar said:

Non-sequitor. Cadillac is not a singular, stand-alone corporation, but 'one knife in the drawer'. BMW/MB/Audi have to reach way downmarket to keep the factories humming. A8/A7 sales aren't doing it anymore.

And entry-level cars do not 'get people in the brand who then move up'; that's a disproven myth.

Audi has VW, and they still make A3 and Q3, heck they make a Q1.  Why?  Because a Q3 is going to make more profit than a Golf GTI or Tiguan, etc.  Volkswagen would rather have people buy a Bentley than an Audi A8, same chassis, but the Bentley has higher profit margin.  

VW makes something like $700 per car, Audi makes about $5,000 and Bentley makes about $20,000.  Which do you think they want to sell the most of?  Every sale Audi takes from VW is $4,000 extra profit.  Porsche does about $20,000 per car also, think they'd rather sell a Porsche Macan or an Audi Q5?  Every Macan sale stolen from Audi is a $15,000 win for the company.  

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

And the least expensive E Class that houses a 4 cylinder under its hood is as pricey as a Chevy Impala States side in Europe...  while also being a ubiquitous taxi cab in some countries' fleets... 

That reminds me of how a Biscayne was and Chevy also offered a top of the line SS version...

And if Chevrolet had not been part of a bigger corporate umbrella, Chevrolet would be asking Cadillac prices for its SS version...which is what Mercedes does States side...

And the 3 Musketeers  could down vote this post too if they want too...

Ill be laughing my ass off too if they do.  Would prove some theories I got about this whole thing...

But there's no evidence those are "stolen" sales, unless you believe they are directly cannibalizing sales from one another. If that's the case, they would shutter the brands whose bottom lines aren't the highest. But they don't, in fact; VW has bought more brands. So your 'stealing' theory is disproven by VW Group's actions.
Each brand incorporates a ton of unique overhead costs; from distribution, advertising, parts, etc etc. They unquestionably must survive on their own to a large degree.

EDIT :: bentley, by far, has the lowest revenue out of VW Groups many brands. VW Commercial makes 5 times more revenue than Bentley does, and the VW brand makes 44 times the revenue.

On the matter of profit; thru Q3 2019, bentley only pulled in 65 million in profit.
Audi's profit was around 4.5 billion, and VWs profit was 16 billion.

VW would very much like to sell more VWs rather than audis  or bentleys.
In fact, bentley is obviously a drag on the annual report- it would be better shuttered. Put the money into VW and sell more VWs / make more profit.

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

Stop stop stop the damn bar moving. One AMG trim E Class doesn’t change the fact that it STARTS at almost $20K lower than a base model Escalade (And with a 190HP four pot to boot). It also proves that there are a few rubes out there if you’re going to pay $125K for a gussied up German taxi. 
 

And again, this isn’t about your precious and overpriced Benz. It’s about the Genesis and how it’s a far better deal than the German competition. 

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

EDIT :: bentley, by far, has the lowest revenue out of VW Groups many brands. VW Commercial makes 5 times more revenue than Bentley does, and the VW brand makes 44 times the revenue.

On the matter of profit; thru Q3 2019, bentley only pulled in 65 million in profit.
Audi's profit was around 4.5 billion, and VWs profit was 16 billion.

VW would very much like to sell more VWs rather than audis  or bentleys.
In fact, bentley is obviously a drag on the annual report- it would be better shuttered. Put the money into VW and sell more VWs / make more profit.

I went through Volkswagen’s 2018 annual report since I didn’t see a 2019 up yet.  They do a nice job listing global sales volume of every model and they break out brand revenue and profit.

VW brand had 3.2 billion Euros in profit, Audi had 4.7 billion Euros and Porsche 4.1 billion Euros.   Skoda made 1.4 billion euros.
 

VW had 6.3 million units sold to Audi’s 1.8 million and Porsche’s 253,000.  Skoda sold 1.2 million units.
 

That little volume of a Porsche made more money than VW brand.  Audi beat VW and Skoda combined profits.   Note that Audi numbers include Lamborghini, because Lambo is part of Audi.  
 

They definitely want to sell Audi and Porsche over VW and Skoda.

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And again, this isn’t about your precious and overpriced Benz. It’s about the Genesis and how it’s a far better deal than the German competition. 

If Genesis is such a good deal why did they sell 21,000 last year and they are down Q1 this year?    
 

They aren’t that good a deal because they needed better styling, interior and power trains which the G80 addresses.  G80 looks nice, but it isn’t better than what exists already.  A challenge brand has to beat competition not build “almost as good as”

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If Genesis is such a good deal why did they sell 21,000 last year and they are down Q1 this year?    
 

They aren’t that good a deal because they needed better styling, interior and power trains which the G80 addresses.  G80 looks nice, but it isn’t better than what exists already.  A challenge brand has to beat competition not build “almost as good as”

Your example is like a Teen boy in the locker room comparing dick size.

The bulk of society DOES NOT care about who has the biggest engine. They look at much more and that is proven in many various ways of which sales, product mix and many other things make up parts of the brand.

Everyone has to start some place. Originally Genesis was a sub-brand under Hyundai and sold very well which them made the company decide to make it a separate division as their luxury line. They did what any common sense business man would have done. Made it a separate division, moved the existing models into that division and started work on superior upgrades that can and do compete.

Taking this into account, lets look at your beloved MB sales history.
Full info can be looked at here: https://carsalesbase.com/us-mercedes-benz/

Based on this, the first sale in 1948 was a lone car, 2 were sold the next year and it took till 1967, the year I was born to finally break 20,000 cars sold. Took 19 years to get to 20,000 plus sales.

Now lets look at Genesis: https://carsalesbase.com/us-genesis/

As we can see, 2015 was a year of bringing out genesis models under Hyundai and into 2016 where they then flipped to a stand alone Genesis division. As we all know it takes 3 to 5 years to get new auto's to market. In that time, Genesis did well as they sold gussied up Hyundai's under a Genesis label. 2018 they killed off models having a lack of available product as they clearly wanted to have separation between the past and what is now the new Luxury models coming out.

I would say for a 3 1/2 year old division it is doing very well.

Genesis reaches 20,000 plus sales of auto's in 3 1/2 years versus 19 years of a competitor to reach that same milestone.

Genesis for the win!

@smk4565 Drop the MB crap here, focus on Genesis, If you cannot tell many are tired of your Daimler Koolaid focus and we are here to talk about Genesis.

Genesis has a solid competitor. Engines are on par with competition. Exterior is subjective to each person as is the interior. Yet I will say the interior I think beats many of the luxury products out there.

Only badge snobs and those worried about their image go out a buy a NEW Mercedes over a new Genesis these days.  Just the repair bills alone would keep me away from "the best or nothing".

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

Again you are proving why you would never succeed in running any car company. And please show us proof of a Genesis being cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac. 

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

You really want to bring up livery sales while touting E Class sales (Also mostly due to fleet sales) earlier? Btw, the XTS was the livery choice, not the CT6. You can’t even get your backhanded insults straight. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

As YOU HAVE STATED, China is going to led the world towards EVs. V8's are Dead and you have even stated that as your favorite brand will focus on Turbo 4 and 6 engines. As such, there is NO NEED to waste R&D dollars on a V8 anymore. They can clearly build Turbo 4 and 6 engines and bring in hybrid and evs now and grow from there. In time they will rival everyone else. They have done so much in the last 20 to 30 years compared to 100 plus for everyone else just about.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

Livery was XTS never CT6 and the age differences between XTS and CT6 buyers is big for such a small pool of car people since the bulk of everyone has gone to CUVs where Cadillac has led the industry in sales at high ATPs.

Now Genesis, this is a valid need for them. Before they do an update to the 70 or 90 car, they need to make sure they have the 70,80 and 90 CUV out first and then as I have stated earlier, use the Palisade and make a uber luxury full size SUV out of it, or at least a 90's luxury version from it. No different than any other auto company out there in using the same platform with underneath identical parts, but the interior and exterior look light years different.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

As YOU HAVE STATED, China is going to led the world towards EVs. V8's are Dead and you have even stated that as your favorite brand will focus on Turbo 4 and 6 engines. As such, there is NO NEED to waste R&D dollars on a V8 anymore. They can clearly build Turbo 4 and 6 engines and bring in hybrid and evs now and grow from there. In time they will rival everyone else. They have done so much in the last 20 to 30 years compared to 100 plus for everyone else just about.

Livery was XTS never CT6 and the age differences between XTS and CT6 buyers is big for such a small pool of car people since the bulk of everyone has gone to CUVs where Cadillac has led the industry in sales at high ATPs.

Now Genesis, this is a valid need for them. Before they do an update to the 70 or 90 car, they need to make sure they have the 70,80 and 90 CUV out first and then as I have stated earlier, use the Palisade and make a uber luxury full size SUV out of it, or at least a 90's luxury version from it. No different than any other auto company out there in using the same platform with underneath identical parts, but the interior and exterior look light years different.

The Palisade is roughly the same size as the GV80, even if they grow the platform they can’t go against the Escalade with a front drive Hyundai platform and they can’t charge more for a Palisade based SUV than they do for GV80 which is a rear drive Genesis platform.  GV90 will be a a rear drive product as I suspect GV70 would be.  And a GV60 could be made off the Tucson platform or whatever small suv platform they have.

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

41 minutes ago, regfootball said:

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

 

Lol yeah what only an extra 30 grand or so.  LS is more expensive than the g90..

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

2 hours ago, regfootball said:

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

Most things Lexus are seldom discounted.  Ever.

5 hours ago, regfootball said:

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

 

But that is more than G90 money.  Although I will also say the current Lexus ES and LS have a high belt line, and high inside center console which makes the interiors feel kind of cramped on both.  The LS has really lost it's way, it used to be a more stately and roomy luxury sedan, now it looks like a glorified Maxima or Mazda 6, and it is trying to be a sports car or something.

The Lexus GS is dated,  but the ES sells because it is the same size as a G80 or GS or E-class and it starts at $39k.  It is mid-size car for G70 money.  

19 hours ago, regfootball said:

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

And what is faux luxury about the new G80?  Surely more luxury than any Cadillac outside the Escalade...