FCA's Upcoming Small Cars To Switch To PSA Group Architecture

I am willing to bet we see Fiat go away from the US again as people here just do not want their crap. The only way Fiat stays and lives on is by going CUV with Mid and full size.

Fiat will be gone, I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.  So if Chrysler is only 1 minivan, they can just move that to Dodge and close down Chrysler.  That gives Stellantis Dodge-Jeep for American flavor, and they'll bing in Peugeot for European flavor and put that in the same dealerships.  And Ram will stay as it is with American sourced pickups and European sourced vans.

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Fiat will be gone, I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.  So if Chrysler is only 1 minivan, they can just move that to Dodge and close down Chrysler.  That gives Stellantis Dodge-Jeep for American flavor, and they'll bing in Peugeot for European flavor and put that in the same dealerships.  And Ram will stay as it is with American sourced pickups and European sourced vans.

Disagree, with the dislike that has been fostered by certain people in this country towards certain countries / name plates, I honestly cannot see Peugeot coming into the US right now. As such, I would expect rebadge of Peugeot as Chrysler.

Fiat? Oh, yeah, no thanks. Now, if by Fiat you mean an Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio, we're back on the same page. Yes, we all know they're known to be unreliable, but what a sweet, distinctive looking ride inside and out. Definitely a Ferrari feel with the interior design and the same red Start/Stop button on the steering wheel. Sat in one at our last Auto show, she was a gem.

Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

Or for $80k...C8 for me!

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a33633294/the-dollar80000-would-you-rather-c8-corvette-or-f-350-tremor/

Would like to see Dodge get a small CUV, more street oriented than a Jeep counterpart.  Would like to see Chrysler get something based on the new GC's platform, again, more street/luxury than a Jeep counterpart.

The 300 is such a sweet car.  Will be sad to see it go.  I've said it before, it is like the last man standing, and what a tall and proud man.

That works!  But Im more of a mid-sized/fullsized muscle car guy  although with that magnetic ride the C8 has got, its much more luxury plush making you forget you are in a sports car.  Like I said, the C8 works just fine! 

4 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Would like to see Dodge get a small CUV, more street oriented than a Jeep counterpart.  Would like to see Chrysler get something based on the new GC's platform, again, more street/luxury than a Jeep counterpart.

The 300 is such a sweet car.  Will be sad to see it go.  I've said it before, it is like the last man standing, and what a tall and proud man.

Whats better than a Hellcat (Red-Eye) Charger?

A  Chrysler 300C SRT8  Hellcat (Red-Eye) !

  Its sad that the 300C SRT8 stopped being a thing in the US for close to a decade now. Its sadder that the 300 will never be a Hellcat.  

1 hour ago, David said:

Disagree, with the dislike that has been fostered by certain people in this country towards certain countries / name plates, I honestly cannot see Peugeot coming into the US right now. As such, I would expect rebadge of Peugeot as Chrysler.

Peugeot is the #1 selling brand worldwide for Stellantis and the guy that runs the company is from the Carlos Ghosn school of cost cutting.  He has zero emotional connection to Dodge or Chrysler or Fiat, he is going to push what makes money and my guess is he sees money to be made with Peugeot's crossovers being sort of his GMC/Buick competitor as something a little more stylish and upscale than Chevy/Toyota mainstream offerings.

And American buyers have zero positive perception of peugeot. A fool's gamble.

I wonder those that still hate GM, will they be intrigued to buy a Peugeot?

Very telling if they do...

Even more sinister looking is this Coupe version with new LED headlights that add a scowling kind of glare look to the front, 2021 Alfa GTV. ??

https://www.caranddriver.com/alfa-romeo/gtv

5 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Even more sinister looking is this Coupe version with new LED headlights that add a scowling kind of glare look to the front, 2021 Alfa GTV. ??

https://www.caranddriver.com/alfa-romeo/gtv

This auto is just  Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Peugeot is the #1 selling brand worldwide for Stellantis and the guy that runs the company is from the Carlos Ghosn school of cost cutting.  He has zero emotional connection to Dodge or Chrysler or Fiat, he is going to push what makes money and my guess is he sees money to be made with Peugeot's crossovers being sort of his GMC/Buick competitor as something a little more stylish and upscale than Chevy/Toyota mainstream offerings.

RIGHT........................................

You must have forgotten that America has a terrible impression of Peugeot. If you think he can make bank selling that label here in the US, I have Beach Front Property in Arizona to sell you next to the Grand Canyon!  

1 minute ago, David said:

This auto is just  Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way.

Ya ??er   I think it's automotive art on wheels

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Ferrari engineered 6 cylinder under the hood too...  and it makes a sweet sweet sound.  LIKE a Ferrari.   I wouldnt buy it though.  

I would much much rather have that 80 thousand dollah Challenger with that sweet sweet supercharged Hemi.   

I meant to say Charger.  

13 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Even more sinister looking is this Coupe version with new LED headlights that add a scowling kind of glare look to the front, 2021 Alfa GTV. ??

https://www.caranddriver.com/alfa-romeo/gtv

THIS is where the Challenger comes in...as in Id rather a Challenger than this. 

Great render though.  A Giulia coupe/GTV looking like that is hot nonetheless. 

12 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Ya ??er   I think it's automotive art on wheels

Ya should be nicer when you talk about yourself!  

Did mommy not hug you enough growing up in Oregon around all those ?

I give ya a Hug, after all ? are cute and deserve love too!

?

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

And American buyers have zero positive perception of peugeot. A fool's gamble.

Dodge, Chrysler and Fiat have negative images.  Carlos is going to bring something here, and I am betting that it isn't going to be Opel.

20 minutes ago, David said:

Ya should be nicer when you talk about yourself!  

Did mommy not hug you enough growing up in Oregon around all those ?

 

I give ya a Hug, after all ? are cute and deserve love too!

?

Nothing about that comment has anything to do with my childhood ya weirdo. I had a great childhood, how about you? Oh that's right you don't get a long with your parents like I do. So I guess it makes sense you'd go there. It must be the lack of oxygen up in Seattle with you and the stinky hippy anarchists you live around

40 minutes ago, David said:

This auto is just  Ugly to me. different in a bad sort of way.

RIGHT........................................

You must have forgotten that America has a terrible impression of Peugeot. If you think he can make bank selling that label here in the US, I have Beach Front Property in Arizona to sell you next to the Grand Canyon!  

I think he has a better chance with Peugeot than Opel or Citroen, and Chrysler and Fiat are dead weight that are only kept around out of nostalgia of the owners of Fiat-Chrysler, but FCA as a company is gone and Carlos has no nostalgia for them.   If you read up on Tavares, he has a no private jets rule, he personally travels economy class on planes and trains, this guy is a cost cutter extraordinaire, and he doesn't care about volume, only cares about profitability and making money.  GM could never make money on Opel, he made money on it in 18 months.   This guy will be aggressive, slash through the dead weight and push Peugeot and DS where he makes margin.  

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think he has a better chance with Peugeot than Opel or Citroen, and Chrysler and Fiat are dead weight that are only kept around out of nostalgia of the owners of Fiat-Chrysler, but FCA as a company is gone and Carlos has no nostalgia for them.   If you read up on Tavares, he has a no private jets rule, he personally travels economy class on planes and trains, this guy is a cost cutter extraordinaire, and he doesn't care about volume, only cares about profitability and making money.  GM could never make money on Opel, he made money on it in 18 months.   This guy will be aggressive, slash through the dead weight and push Peugeot and DS where he makes margin.  

First off Carlos is GONE and in hiding in a 3rd world country if he did not get blown up by the port explosion that killed so many innocent people.

As far as name brands, you have way too much faith in people thinking positive here of Peugeot and DS. Yes they make some interesting products and have had positive reviews in Europe. 

That is Europe and they DO NOT have any marketing power here in the US like your Badge mobile Mercedes-Benz has. As such, Chrysler has more marketing creds with the van and 300 than trying to start from scratch and looking up the history of Peugeot and seeing how crappy they did.

I would bet on Chrysler with rebadged Peugeot and DS auto's and an existing dealership than trying to close them down and rebuild new dealerships on P and DS.

50 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Dodge, Chrysler and Fiat have negative images.

Fiat unquestionably does, if it has any image at all.
But Chrysler & Dodge have very good images- you're stuck in 1982 with that.
Dodge also isn't "dead weight"- they moved 422K units in '19 withOUT Ram.

Alfa is what's dead weight; 18K units sold, down almost 23% from 2018.
Citroen & Peugeot are dead on arrival- lost in the crowd with nothing to pull buyers with and a negative image.

Carlos can try and bring something here, but he had better understand the market before pushing billions anywhere or he's going to lose.

I can envision the yellow car with a Dodge face and the daytime running lights being the slashes in the paint on the current cars. Give it a heritage name and mod that 4 banger to the limit. After all it's a Dodge brotha?

That yellow car would be nice as a Dodge Neon. With a modded 4 banger...Neon SRT4 has a nice familiar ring to it. 

And if Stellantis wants an EV/Hybrid version for it, especially as a Dodge...Neon cant be any better for a name. 

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think 2021 model year is rumored as the final one for the Chrysler 300.

Chrysler 300 by itself outsold the entire 3-model Alfa lineup in 2019.

Alfa as a brand was down 23% vs. 2018. Rumors are swirling it'll get yanked- can't survive on that kind of horrible volume.

Right, smk?

12 hours ago, David said:

First off Carlos is GONE and in hiding in a 3rd world country if he did not get blown up by the port explosion that killed so many innocent people.

As far as name brands, you have way too much faith in people thinking positive here of Peugeot and DS. Yes they make some interesting products and have had positive reviews in Europe. 

That is Europe and they DO NOT have any marketing power here in the US like your Badge mobile Mercedes-Benz has. As such, Chrysler has more marketing creds with the van and 300 than trying to start from scratch and looking up the history of Peugeot and seeing how crappy they did.

I would bet on Chrysler with rebadged Peugeot and DS auto's and an existing dealership than trying to close them down and rebuild new dealerships on P and DS.

Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

Fiat unquestionably does, if it has any image at all.
But Chrysler & Dodge have very good images- you're stuck in 1982 with that.
Dodge also isn't "dead weight"- they moved 422K units in '19 withOUT Ram.

Alfa is what's dead weight; 18K units sold, down almost 23% from 2018.
Citroen & Peugeot are dead on arrival- lost in the crowd with nothing to pull buyers with and a negative image.

Carlos can try and bring something here, but he had better understand the market before pushing billions anywhere or he's going to lose.

Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.  If Chrysler stays then they are getting straight badge jobs I image.

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Citroen and Peugeot outsell Dodge, and have better margin.   

In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

In Europe, that is.  Their products wouldn't fit at Dodge...small FWD hatchbacks wouldn't work in the US.  Maybe some of the CUVs at Chrysler.  Dodge is all about RWD V8..

And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And RWD V8 is dying fast.  I am a rear drive V8 fan, but the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

Barf....they already have that niche covered w/ the small Jeeps...does the US market need more generics?    The V8 RWD product is what makes Dodge stand out in a market full of fecal fwd/awd transverse engine despair gray interior generic appliances...Dodge doesn't need such chud...anyway, from the article, it sounds like the PSA stuff will be for the European market.   Maybe the next gen Renegade and Compass will be on a PSA platform? 

Anyway, I do hope Stellantis finds a future for the Charger and Challenger and keeps them real...I'd hate to see those names and style wasted on appliances..

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If he keeps Chrysler here they will be 100% badge swapped cars from the European stable and probably same for Dodge in time.

What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

...the market wants fwd crossovers which PSA has.

Except for the market that wants RWD V8s.
EVERYTHING can't be a teeny 4-banger CUV.

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

32 minutes ago, David said:

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff that GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse and Americans seem to have infinite appetite for.   But under what brand?  There was talk of bringing the Peugeot brand here.  It's been almost 30 years since it was sold here.   Launching a brand would be more $$$ and work than badge engineering....

Since Dodge is down to 3 vehicles that draw on V8 performance as part of their brand image, I don't see any of them fitting in at Dodge.  Chrysler is pretty thin now, could use a couple more CUVs..and if they are purely soft roaders that would distinguish them from Jeep's rugged image.

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

They have a bunch of small to midsize crossovers that could probably sell here, though....similar to the generic stuff GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, etc churn out en masse.   But what brand would it sell under? 

I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

6 minutes ago, David said:

I saw the mid size stuff, with the Durango, why bother with that stuff?

Dodge already has the JD Power #1 mid size CUV. Would be better to take some of the Jeep full and compact size stuff and put Dodge inspired sheet metal on it.

I honestly just do not see the P & C line selling here. Especially as we move towards EV's, we seem as a country to be saying Mid size and full size is what we want, not FWD Compact, Sub Compact or mini appliances. 

This would be product aiming at a different buyer than the Durango...more at the buyers of soft roader chud that sells well--think of all the gray plastic interior Equinoxes, Blazers, Escapes, Santa Fes, Nissans, Terrains, Acadias, etc that sell...  I'm not a fan, but subcompact and compact CUVs are a huge market right now.  There is room to sell more and not badge them as Jeeps or Dodges.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure.
There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

The Rav4 by itself sells as much as the whole Dodge brand in the US.  There is plenty of market for front drive crossovers.  And PSA knows how to make money, they had over an 8% margin last year, most car companies are happy at 5%. 

Dodge is still around with a stale lineup because the only way for the brand to be profitable is to sell vehicles that the tooling was paid off 5-10 years ago.  If they started pumping money into new product they'd be broke, which is why FCA was putting out so little new product recently.

Any hopes of Dodge's rear drive future lie on the Georgio platform.

1 hour ago, David said:

^ Totally agree with @balthazar states above. In looking at the Peugeot and Citroen product line, there is nothing there that can be badge engineered and will sell under Dodge or Chrysler. They DO NOT have the product line for America and the history is like an Elephant memory, that Garbage will not sell here.

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

So your logic smk is to kill any brand selling less than the Rav4??

wow.

53 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

Based on your logic, then you should be scared, very scared as they will come here and destroy what little Mercedes-Benz sells and force them to retreat to Germany.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

So your logic smk is to kill any brand selling less than the Rav4??

 

 

wow.

No it isn't, I said they should kill Chrysler, and move the van to Dodge.  And add Peugeot to current FCA dealer network.  And they can drop Fiat in the USA.

Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Then what the hell was the point of comparing the rav4 sales to dodge??
 

Last time I looked, btw, rav4 was around 300K and dodge was at 422K.

I am just saying front drive crossovers are the #1 selling product type.  You could price a Porsche 911 at $30k and the Rav4 would still outsell it because most people don't want a sports car, they want a crossover to haul stuff, even if they don't haul stuff, and they think they need AWD for snow, even if they don't, and they want good gas mileage so they'll live with a 1.6 liter turbo to get it.

Yeah, but, that’s totally irrelevant to the discussion. It’s not even a point of contention.

Thoughts to some of this:

No small small cars will be sold here in the US. I can tell you that now. Fiat is already dead, we saw that coming anyways...

The old guard platform cars are not going anywhere- there are still updates and some new stuff down the pipeline. These 3 still have enough of a following to keep them for a good while. Besides, they are nearly retro cars anyways... ? . Ram of course will be fine. Jeep looks like it too may skip the small/ sub stuff as well. Sounds like the baby Jeep is in danger of being dropped, as Jeep wants to focus on their core products, and sell them all over the world. A few less models actually makes this easier, though they are adding the Jeep Wagoneer.....

Alfa is a tough one. I like them, and they are getting kinda a Saab like following (know a few that have one-love it) so they should hang around at least a while to see where things go......

Of course, because it's an import brand, any examination of it's sales is irrelevant.

Right, smk?

Personally, I think that Stellantis should (at least for a while) keep the 300/Charger/Challenger triplets.  As for CUVs and minivans, they can do what they like with the brands that exist.  Stellantis could easily rebagde SOME of their CUVs and FWD cars as Chryslers with probably little or no negative feedback.  Bring them as Cintroens: automatic fail.  Nobody here misses Renault since they left in 1988.  Tavares has a lot of work ahead of him in order to succeed here in the most competitive automotive marketplace on Earth.  NO one here will miss FIAT because their cars are terrible.

On 9/2/2020 at 11:27 AM, smk4565 said:

Carlos Tavares, the man now in charge of Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler and Fiat.

 

Same first name, different empty suit...worked under Ghosn previously...they should have an American that understands the NA market in charge of the NA brands, not some empty suit w/ a Renault/Nissan past. 

On 9/2/2020 at 5:55 PM, smk4565 said:

I don't know if it is garbage, Peugeot and Citroen are outselling Opel this year, and GM was sourcing their Buicks from Opel.  And on styling and interiors the Peugeot's look better than the Opels.  So if Peugeot beat Opel in Europe (before buying out Opel) then I don't see why they can't beat Buick in the USA, much less Chevy or Hyundai or whatever other brand they want to compete with.

Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s. That is a stain that does not go away. Any attempt to put a Dodge or Chrysler skin on Peugeot guts will be the 100% death of Dodge and Chrysler, above all other scenarios. Regarding stale product, FCA had ample opportunities to invest in new products for Dodge and Chrysler and didn’t because they insisted on peddling their own Fiat and Alfa garbage to US buyers. How’d that work for them btw?

Oh and please stop with the sales comparisons and such because all of that “logic” can easily be applied to Mercedes as well but shhhhhhh, we don’t talk about Benz like that do we?

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s.

Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.