Rumorpile: New Dodge Challenger and Charger Not Due Till 2021, 300 Bumped Off

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

Prospering would be my hope!

Agreed.

I just think it would be a much different scenario than previous gas crisis, when Ford had few efficient options.  They have spent a lot of effort improving that aspect.

Just now, Wings4Life said:

Agreed.

I just think it would be a much different scenario than previous gas crisis, when Ford had few efficient options.  They have spent a lot of effort improving that aspect.

...and they have done it with really desirable product.  Ecoboost V6 in the F150 comes to my mind as the best example.  Smaller Ford Transit vans would be another.

My hat is off to Ford for these products!

This also ties into my thoughts about rational vs irrational corporate culture.  Love them or hate them, Ford is way ahead of VW, FCA, Nissan and several others here. These products are not the result of one leader nor are they developed in a vacuum.

I honestly believe that if gas spikes up high enough, many fleet owners will consider upgrading their old fleets to newer vehicles with more efficiency.  Transit with I4 GTDI is already a huge seller, as one example.  New aluminum SD improves things significantly as well.

32 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

I honestly believe that if gas spikes up high enough, many fleet owners will consider upgrading their old fleets to newer vehicles with more efficiency.  Transit with I4 GTDI is already a huge seller, as one example.  New aluminum SD improves things significantly as well.

Having worked blue collar service jobs for most of my adult life (I am a state licensed master electrician) I am keenly aware of what fuel costs can do to a bottom line and would agree with you here.

32 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and they have done it with really desirable product.  Ecoboost V6 in the F150 comes to my mind as the best example.  Smaller Ford Transit vans would be another.

Escape had massive gains as well once they released the new one for 2013.

2012 Escape 3.0 V6 FWD: 19/25

2013 Escape 2.0T FWD: 21/29

Same horsepower but like a 47ft-lb gain as well.

2012 Escape 2.5 I4 FWD: 21/27

2013 Escape 1.6T FWD: 23/31

Also, that 2.7 EcoBoost.. That's one great little engine.

...and Yes, the aluminum SD is another good example.

Just now, ccap41 said:

Also, that 2.7 EcoBoost.. That's one great little engine.

2.7 is fantastic.

Sergio has destroyed FCA rather than having built it to be a solid company. He could have invested in the profit centers to build bigger profits and then one like Toyota having excess billions could have decided to try and bring back Alfa and improve Fiat, but like uneducated ignorance. His own self delusion has made him a destroyer of companies rather than a builder. He will destroy Ferrari also as he could not proper manage FCA, so why would any competent person think he could improve Ferrari.

They should have consolidated brands rather than try and bring more over here. Ford and GM consolidated brand because it was necessary and it's costly.

As of now Chrysler is in trouble and Fiat is even in deeper global trouble. If they do not merge or find a partner they will die. I am not going to sugar coat it as things are not good and will only get worse the longer they have no partner. 

As for GM and Ford. 

Ford was going broke and because the banks did not fail was able to leverage their plants for a $23 Billion Dollar loan. They plowed that money into small FWD cars, small engines and Aluminum trucks while cutting cost and losing the luxury prestige brands like Jag etc. It was the responsible move but it has also hurt them that they left the larger SUV models to grow old. 

Now with low gas prices GM has a newer large SUV line and has found it has made them more profitable than they could have imagined.  GM owns the large SUV market at near 50% while Ford is at 13% and most of that is rental fleets. 

GM averages $9K profit on each Tahoe while Ford failed to capture these profits. This has given GM a $2 Billion advantage and why their profits are higher. Ford did nothing wrong it was mostly just bad timing with fuel prices like GM did in the 80's. 

Ford has the new models coming but with the market slowing down it will slow sales and profits. 

Now with that said if gas prices go up Ford and GM both will be in good shape on small cars and small SUV models. 

Back to Chrysler they have no small cars other than the under loved Fiat. They have some larger SUV models but only the Jeep ones are moving well. The Trucks are selling but only with big money on the hood and no real replacement coming soon. GM has a new model about 1.5-2 years out. GM also has the small trucks to add volume and value to the people shopping lower prices. 

When it comes to cars and new models it is about good engineering, smart planning and it still comes to luck. Right now Ford did the right thing but is paying the price for the lower gas prices they just could not predict. They will survive it but with lower income and a large debt they will have to temper some development

and this is why Lincoln will not become what Cadillac is at this point with a lot of work on new specific models. Even with that things like a recession could hurt Cadillac in the end but who can predict that too. 

Now GM in a way was lucky to go broke later as they got the Government bail out and was given an advantage Ford did not get. Though Ford did take a lot of money from other government programs and from the department of energy. So they were at a disadvantage at Ford it was not as great as they like to claim as there was other money they did get from the government. 

Anyways here is the Forbes story it is accurate and well written. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2016/11/08/ford-made-all-the-right-moves-in-the-recession-so-why-is-gm-reaping-the-benefits/#319b5e77534f

The real question coming forward is the global economy and the auto market slow down. Who while be in a good place if and when it hits? 

On one hand Europe is a tough market right now and if tanks it will hit Fiat and Ford harder as they have a larger chunk of it. GM while they are hurt now not owning a major part of it this could benefit them if thing go south there. 

These are not givens and all we can do is watch and see just what happens. Trump and his new ideas can change things here and we are going to see how that works. As it is now we are on a slow decline and can hope things turn with some new policies. 

The way I see it the three strong MFGs are Toyota, Ford and GM right now. Honda will need to do some partnering to share cost like they have with GM and I expect that could expand under increasing cost so they can remain independent. VW is struggling under the Dieselgate cost. They will survive but how much damage is yet to be seen. Audi was caught on a new cheat this week. 

Everyone else it will be up to controlling cost and partnerships in sharing development cost. 

+1 ^ totally agree with what Hyper has stated.

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

+1 ^ totally agree with what Hyper has stated.

Absolutely!

So they will have basically one product for each brand other than Jeep. Jeep is strong. But tough FE standards aren't going to make the next decade easy for Jeep if they don't put money back where it comes from.

I see Fiat 500 and 500L getting the noose ever tighter around the neck, and the 500X, garbage as it is, is a stilted Fiat, so why not?

They could just change the Chrysler brand to the Pacifica brand, and then have number based model line. With the hope they ever build anything else for that brand.

And RAM? like the 1500 can't stay afloat as it is forever. There's a mid-cycle update to the F150 next year, GM has redesigns for 2018/19 MY and then Ford will have another gen F150 the same time RAM gets their next 1500.

And my bet is that they've pretty much done the design freeze by now, because it's very costly to continuously change design over and over.