Rumorpile: Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Put A Number of Products On Delay

And just wanted to add casa, yes Mopar is my favorite, but unlike you and Wings I give credit where due to other brands and don't just try to spread nagativity about brands that aren't my number 1 favorite. 

Yeah Yeah Yeah. I have no problem with other brands as long as they aren't being sold in America. This is GM and Ford country.. and the only thing that should be allowed on the roads. Now.. if Sergio is willing to let the whore that is paying the bills right now go to either of these two... or American investors... then I will be waiting with open arms for another Domestic company again  

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive.  Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness.  Every DI engined car i have been in idles like  a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0).  Less NVH to state it that way.  I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine..........  at all.  In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application.  IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto.  A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........  IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed.  So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise. 

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

323HP Camaro  vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

I'm not usually one to pick sides, but GM's engines on a lot of fronts are better than Mopar's. Especially since FCA doesn't have a dire need to design and engineer Hellcat like V8s or diesels. They already have them at their disposal.

In the segments that are the bread and butter; GM's powertrains and the number they have on disposal is VASTLY superior. 

LFX and PentaStar... Eh, LFX hasn't seen a RWD SUV application; but when the LGX does in a future XT6 or something of that nature; I can say with no qualms that it'll be better a V6 than an updated PentaStar in its RWD SUV applications. I like the PentaStar, though the LGX is gonna destroy the market, plain and simple.

There is no doubt that GM makes better powertrain than FCA.

There is no doubt that GM makes better powertrain than FCA.

Depends.  As much as I like the new 5.3, I would have a hard time picking it over a Hemi + 8speed.   And I'd pick a Jeep GC with a Pentastar over any of the Lambdas.  Lacrosse V6 v. 300c V6.... Powertrains feel about equal, but I prefer the 300 for other reasons. 

On 4-cylinders, it's GM all the way. 

Sure, we could cherry pick from each, but I was suggesting overall, both today and historically.  GM has just produced so many engines and sizes.  Chrysler has a fraction of the engines. 

I've owned a Hemi for several years now. I like it a lot, but I do think it's a bit long in the tooth. Iron blocks and port fuel injection are still viable in certain applications, but it does come off a bit old-school versus the latest smallblocks. Same deal with the Pentastar V6. Nothing wrong with it, but Sergio had better loosen the pursestrings pretty soon.

The deal is the combination between power, reliability, synergistic smooth, and fuel efficiency. The GM engines are a combo of what BMW puts in to power, Honda puts into reliability,  what Toyota puts into fuel economy and, and now what Benz puts into smooth working.. all in one bite. They tend to have all the "proper" qualities. The turbo 4s and 6s are sublime.. and we all kno the SBC is an iconic GOD. Chrysler has the HellCat... , but then again.. FCA doesn't have the same CAFE responsibility... or should I say urgent CAFE responsibility in the same way GM (and Ford) have.

 

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive.  Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness.  Every DI engined car i have been in idles like  a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0).  Less NVH to state it that way.  I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine..........  at all.  In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application.  IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto.  A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........  IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed.  So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise. 

 

 

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

 

323HP Camaro  vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

 

I am not reading all your GM humping, but that peak HP number doesn't mean much when an auomatic Camaro coupe runs the same times as the heavier CHallenger, oops, and the Camaro gets worse FE, tell me again how the LFX is superior?

The deal is the combination between power, reliability, synergistic smooth, and fuel efficiency. The GM engines are a combo of what BMW puts in to power, Honda puts into reliability,  what Toyota puts into fuel economy and, and now what Benz puts into smooth working.. all in one bite. They tend to have all the "proper" qualities. The turbo 4s and 6s are sublime.. and we all kno the SBC is an iconic GOD. Chrysler has the HellCat... , but then again.. FCA doesn't have the same CAFE responsibility... or should I say urgent CAFE responsibility in the same way GM (and Ford) have.

ROFL, let's see.  6.4 Hemi, nearly 500 HP NA, 5.7 Hemi, nearly 400 HP NA and dynos show the same for the Challengers despite the official ratings, 3.6 pentastar super smooth, powerful, and all are reliable.  2.4 world engine vs GM's newer 3.5 in the Malibu?  Power and the general feel is the same and the World engines are proven in reliablility too.  World class 7 speed ZF Auto shared with high end makers?  CHECK and having it since 2011 when 2014 was GM's first use of an 8 speed.  Go hump GM in the GM threads please and get off your high horse, don't ou have to defend in some later recall about ignitions that, unlike the others, comes straigh from GM and NOT suppliers.....

PS;  Wings is running circles around ou on this forum......

Woot woot!  CHEVY!

Crap, i own a Silverado!!!!

I've owned a Hemi for several years now. I like it a lot, but I do think it's a bit long in the tooth. Iron blocks and port fuel injection are still viable in certain applications, but it does come off a bit old-school versus the latest smallblocks. Same deal with the Pentastar V6. Nothing wrong with it, but Sergio had better loosen the pursestrings pretty soon.

I'm one of those who doesn't care what metal the block is made of or how it goes about making its power as long as it makes its power in a way that is satisfactory to me.  No direct injection or VVT?  Don't care as long as it returns the power I want with competitive fuel economy.  In that regard, the Hemi still has it. 

They can add direct injection to the Pentastar, but it is already getting fantastic fuel economy and usually better than the LFX... and it did even when it was running a 5-speed auto.    

The Hemi and the Pentastar are two bright spots at FCA.

FCA needs to concentrate on an all-new 4-cylinder family and do it now.

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive. Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness. Every DI engined car i have been in idles like a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0). Less NVH to state it that way. I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine.......... at all. In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application. IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto. A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........ IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed. So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise.

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

323HP Camaro vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

I am not reading all your GM humping, but that peak HP number doesn't mean much when an auomatic Camaro coupe runs the same times as the heavier CHallenger, oops, and the Camaro gets worse FE, tell me again how the LFX is superior?

GM humping? When me and GM get together we do a helluva lot more than Hump.. I leave her loins wet and sticky everytime... Chrysler? That Skanky ass whore. Been passed around more times than a 9 year old boy, being advertised as virgin at an ancient Roman bath house...

As for fuel economy... Again 2 extra cogs will do that for u... Not to mention the less amount of HP. V6 Challenger could get taken down by effin Corolla lol

 

 

 

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive. Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness. Every DI engined car i have been in idles like a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0). Less NVH to state it that way. I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine.......... at all. In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application. IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto. A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........ IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed. So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise.

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

323HP Camaro vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

I am not reading all your GM humping, but that peak HP number doesn't mean much when an auomatic Camaro coupe runs the same times as the heavier CHallenger, oops, and the Camaro gets worse FE, tell me again how the LFX is superior?

GM humping? When me and GM get together we do a helluva lot more than Hump.. I leave her loins wet and sticky everytime... Chrysler? That Skanky ass whore. Been passed around more times than a 9 year old boy, being advertised as virgin at an ancient Roman bath house...

As for fuel economy... Again 2 extra cogs will do that for u... Not to mention the less amount of HP. V6 Challenger could get taken down by effin Corolla lol

 

2 extra cogs?  It still gets bettter fe with the same or LESS cogs!  ANd they both whored out to the government so watch what you say about a whore......  And what about that continual reeming GM keeps getting over their faulty safety prctices?   Maybe they should both wear a condom.......   One who humpeth GM hath nothing to say against another maker.  

 

 

 

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive. Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness. Every DI engined car i have been in idles like a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0). Less NVH to state it that way. I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine.......... at all. In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application. IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto. A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........ IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed. So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise.

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

323HP Camaro vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

I am not reading all your GM humping, but that peak HP number doesn't mean much when an auomatic Camaro coupe runs the same times as the heavier CHallenger, oops, and the Camaro gets worse FE, tell me again how the LFX is superior?

GM humping? When me and GM get together we do a helluva lot more than Hump.. I leave her loins wet and sticky everytime... Chrysler? That Skanky ass whore. Been passed around more times than a 9 year old boy, being advertised as virgin at an ancient Roman bath house...

As for fuel economy... Again 2 extra cogs will do that for u... Not to mention the less amount of HP. V6 Challenger could get taken down by effin Corolla lol

 

Let's tone it down a bit please.

and I've been able to get that fantastic fuel economy out of 5-speed auto Chargers and 300. 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, but up to 305 without DI, without multiair is impressive. Also, no DI has it's advantages such as sheer smoothness. Every DI engined car i have been in idles like a diesel truck (includes LFX, pre LFX, and the eb 2.0). Less NVH to state it that way. I like the LFX more than it's pre refresh predesessor, BUT I don't see how it is a superior engine.......... at all. In fact since we went from sedans to the MUCH heavier and larger fullsize CHallenger vs the Camaro, I have doubts that the LFX makes as much power as they state in that application. IE, a CHallenger V6 is a mid 14 seconds car, so is an LFX gen 5 Camaro auto. A last gen CTS with the LFX took nearly 7 seconds to hit 60........ IMHO, it is about even powerwise with the curent pentastar and still posts worse MPG in every single configuration discussed. So that is my point, Casa stated the LFX superior, facts and figures prove otherwise.

LFX is superior.. and U need to stop quoting the 305HP number as it is a FWD only application that U are comparing to Pentastars that come close with RWD vehicles. The comparison U should be making is the RWD GM vehicles to the RWD FCAs

323HP Camaro vs 305 HP Challenger, the GM engine with a 6% advantage. . before the new one arrives giving it a solid 10% advantage with Start/Stop.. and AFM

I am not reading all your GM humping, but that peak HP number doesn't mean much when an auomatic Camaro coupe runs the same times as the heavier CHallenger, oops, and the Camaro gets worse FE, tell me again how the LFX is superior?

GM humping? When me and GM get together we do a helluva lot more than Hump.. I leave her loins wet and sticky everytime... Chrysler? That Skanky ass whore. Been passed around more times than a 9 year old boy, being advertised as virgin at an ancient Roman bath house...

As for fuel economy... Again 2 extra cogs will do that for u... Not to mention the less amount of HP. V6 Challenger could get taken down by effin Corolla lol

 

2 extra cogs?  It still gets bettter fe with the same or LESS cogs!  ANd they both whored out to the government so watch what you say about a whore......  And what about that continual reeming GM keeps getting over their faulty safety prctices?   Maybe they should both wear a condom.......   One who humpeth GM hath nothing to say against another maker.  

 

U are truly smoking something son son... and it ain't weed. 

GM whored itself to the Gov't.. Yeah.. it flushed Billions of debt.. got rid of undesirable contracts and legacy costs.. and in the end.. forced the Gov't out before it even got all of its cash back.. Yeah.. GM got screwed on that one.

 

The deal is the combination between power, reliability, synergistic smooth, and fuel efficiency. The GM engines are a combo of what BMW puts in to power, Honda puts into reliability,  what Toyota puts into fuel economy and, and now what Benz puts into smooth working.. all in one bite. They tend to have all the "proper" qualities. The turbo 4s and 6s are sublime.. and we all kno the SBC is an iconic GOD. Chrysler has the HellCat... , but then again.. FCA doesn't have the same CAFE responsibility... or should I say urgent CAFE responsibility in the same way GM (and Ford) have.

ROFL, let's see.  6.4 Hemi, nearly 500 HP NA, 5.7 Hemi, nearly 400 HP NA and dynos show the same for the Challengers despite the official ratings, 3.6 pentastar super smooth, powerful, and all are reliable.  2.4 world engine vs GM's newer 3.5 in the Malibu?  Power and the general feel is the same and the World engines are proven in reliablility too.  World class 7 speed ZF Auto shared with high end makers?  CHECK and having it since 2011 when 2014 was GM's first use of an 8 speed.  Go hump GM in the GM threads please and get off your high horse, don't ou have to defend in some later recall about ignitions that, unlike the others, comes straigh from GM and NOT suppliers.....

PS;  Wings is running circles around ou on this forum......

 

Sorry. I missed a whole bunch of this drivel. Got be honest with U.. the Hemi has power, but the cars that it goes into are $h!ty and fat... or is it fat and $h!ty when it comes to driving in anything outside of a straight line.. and even in that it more often than not gets its ass handed to it by a Chevy or Ford overall. 485HP and 475lbs of Bump.. and still cannot manage more than a 1/10th of a sec more leeway in 0-60 versus the 60HP/55lb ft less LS3 powered Camaro.. or even less torque and and 50HP less Mustang, and just equals the Camaro SS in the 1/4... then to top it off, takes longer to brake.. gets worse F/E, and YUP.. throw in a curve.. and see ya later Chally.. don't roll yourself. 

To the transmissions. Are U really celebrating the fact that Chrysler went to an OE and had them build a sourced transmission for them as opposed to building it themselves??? Americans.. Foregone conclusion in a nutshell. Yeah.. I prefer an Outback steak over one I char-grilled with my own mixture of seasonings, and properly aged meat any day of the week. LMFAO

*sigh*

...anyhow, I'm taking delivery of my Laramie Limited EcoDiesel tomorrow. Sergio's a bit of a maroon, but he has a Maple Leaf on his passport, so he's MY maroon.

And there you have it: yes, Mopar has issues I think need to be addressed. Yes, they're rather large issues in some cases. But at the end of the day they can still produce a vehicle I can throw down my cold, hard cash on.

 

 

The deal is the combination between power, reliability, synergistic smooth, and fuel efficiency. The GM engines are a combo of what BMW puts in to power, Honda puts into reliability,  what Toyota puts into fuel economy and, and now what Benz puts into smooth working.. all in one bite. They tend to have all the "proper" qualities. The turbo 4s and 6s are sublime.. and we all kno the SBC is an iconic GOD. Chrysler has the HellCat... , but then again.. FCA doesn't have the same CAFE responsibility... or should I say urgent CAFE responsibility in the same way GM (and Ford) have.

ROFL, let's see.  6.4 Hemi, nearly 500 HP NA, 5.7 Hemi, nearly 400 HP NA and dynos show the same for the Challengers despite the official ratings, 3.6 pentastar super smooth, powerful, and all are reliable.  2.4 world engine vs GM's newer 3.5 in the Malibu?  Power and the general feel is the same and the World engines are proven in reliablility too.  World class 7 speed ZF Auto shared with high end makers?  CHECK and having it since 2011 when 2014 was GM's first use of an 8 speed.  Go hump GM in the GM threads please and get off your high horse, don't ou have to defend in some later recall about ignitions that, unlike the others, comes straigh from GM and NOT suppliers.....

PS;  Wings is running circles around ou on this forum......

 

 

 

 

Sorry. I missed a whole bunch of this drivel. Got be honest with U.. the Hemi has power, but the cars that it goes into are $h!ty and fat... or is it fat and $h!ty when it comes to driving in anything outside of a straight line.. and even in that it more often than not gets its ass handed to it by a Chevy or Ford overall. 485HP and 475lbs of Bump.. and still cannot manage more than a 1/10th of a sec more leeway in 0-60 versus the 60HP/55lb ft less LS3 powered Camaro.. or even less torque and and 50HP less Mustang, and just equals the Camaro SS in the 1/4... then to top it off, takes longer to brake.. gets worse F/E, and YUP.. throw in a curve.. and see ya later Chally.. don't roll yourself. 

 

To the transmissions. Are U really celebrating the fact that Chrysler went to an OE and had them build a sourced transmission for them as opposed to building it themselves??? Americans.. Foregone conclusion in a nutshell. Yeah.. I prefer an Outback steak over one I char-grilled with my own mixture of seasonings, and properly aged meat any day of the week. LMFAO

 

The only drivel here is coming from you.  Those fat pigs are as light or lighter than most cars in their size range.  Remember we are talking fullsize cars here with 5 seats and a real trunk, not a 4 seat compact Mustang or Camaro.  Oh, since the 6th gen isn't out yet, speaking of cars that ARE pigs, how about that Camaro?  uch smaller than te Challenger, but with aluminum blocked engines and it still isn't that much lighter....  At least there is a reason the Mopar cars are heavy, because they are BIG RWD cars.  And FYI, the 8 speed, used by Land Rover, Jag, etc, etc was actually not completely developed by ZF but was co-developed between hem.  And it they still had 8 speeds 3 years beore GM, so you attempt at massaging the subject is incorrect.  And didn't GM pay back it's government loans..............  by taking out MORE government loans?  Oops, didn't realize that was common knowledge did ya.  See, ou are simply a GM humper, period.  I can resepect what they have done vehicle-wise, though knowing a few people with newer GMs I am actually not sold on the quality of their current vehicles yet.  

Oh, and an FYI, those 485 HP pigs are running around 12 flat with the 8 speed auto, hasn't been a Camaro SS yet that can even come close to touching that.....

And didn't GM pay back it's government loans..............  by taking out MORE government loans?  Oops, didn't realize that was common knowledge did ya.

 

?? That's not really accurate and I don't see how it is relevant.  They paid back part of the loan with loaned funds they weren't using.... there is nothing wrong with that. 

Can you both just go back to your corners?

Corner reached and back on topic.

I was reading some interesting info on Allpar about some of the dealys.  IMHO, it is more repositioning of priorities.  Per them he new Journey and probabl other Dodge models are going to be based on a platorm shared with  Alfa an hat is the cause of some of the delays.  Also, it seems, per my post earlier, they are working to get some updated/new engines out. 

A new Journey would be nice.  It's been ignored by the media lately, but it goes right on selling in great numbers.   

 

And didn't GM pay back it's government loans..............  by taking out MORE government loans?  Oops, didn't realize that was common knowledge did ya.

 

 

?? That's not really accurate and I don't see how it is relevant.  They paid back part of the loan with loaned funds they weren't using.... there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

Can you both just go back to your corners?

 

He most likely doesn't understand simple logic. A Bank loans me money. I use part of the money, and the part I don't.. I return to the bank in a lump some "payback... " I didn't even write that.. My 6 year old nephew did because even he understands the logic behind it

Sorry Drew.. I hate sparring with certain less mentally fortunate types but it comes with the territory. If I didn't kno any better I'd swear S T E W spelled Vexner. 

My truck looks really nice. They're doing the stone chip protection on it right now.

 

 

And didn't GM pay back it's government loans..............  by taking out MORE government loans?  Oops, didn't realize that was common knowledge did ya.

 

 

?? That's not really accurate and I don't see how it is relevant.  They paid back part of the loan with loaned funds they weren't using.... there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

Can you both just go back to your corners?

 

 

 

 

He most likely doesn't understand simple logic. A Bank loans me money. I use part of the money, and the part I don't.. I return to the bank in a lump some "payback... " I didn't even write that.. My 6 year old nephew did because even he understands the logic behind it

 

 

Sorry Drew.. I hate sparring with certain less mentally fortunate types but it comes with the territory. If I didn't kno any better I'd swear S T E W spelled Vexner. 

 

Remember the commercial they aired and quickly pulled about paying their loans back?  Yep, I do because when it came out they paid their government loans wih government loans, well.............  At least FCA paid back what they paid back WIHOUT taking a government loan to pay their government loan.  i hope you understand however you spin it that just looks bad.   And when someone starts spouting insults instead of facts, it usually means they know the battle is lost and it is time to devolve into the 5th grader they were........

And less mentally fortunate?  You are the one that thinks they are proving me wrong when they actually prove me right in the process.  You never did explain to me how the LFX is better than the pentastar with the pentasta's equal acceleration and better FE?

Sorry Drew, would let it go someone's superiority complex needed a response......

Well, I still disagree with your assertion that what GM did in this case was "a bad thing".  It wasn't... if it was a shrewd financial move, then why shouldn't they take it?    They did not take an additional loan to pay off an original loan.  They had cash from the original loan left over and returned that to the government. 

Even if GM did refinance a loan through the government, why would that be a bad thing as long as the loans get paid off?   People refinance credit cards, houses, cars, all sorts of things all the time. 

I just don't understand this talking point.  It makes it look like you are trying to smear GM for doing something that just makes good financial sense.

Well, I still disagree with your assertion that what GM did in this case was "a bad thing".  It wasn't... if it was a shrewd financial move, then why shouldn't they take it?    They did not take an additional loan to pay off an original loan.  They had cash from the original loan left over and returned that to the government. 

 

Even if GM did refinance a loan through the government, why would that be a bad thing as long as the loans get paid off?   People refinance credit cards, houses, cars, all sorts of things all the time. 

 

I just don't understand this talking point.  It makes it look like you are trying to smear GM for doing something that just makes good financial sense.

Basically to prove a point to Casa.  I caould care less and would buy a GM vehicle if I liked it.  THe point is he made a remark about FCA, even though they paid theirs off sans loan, just showing he has no room to be high and mighty about it, that is all.

Excuse me, they used tarp money that had been put in an escrow fund IN CASE they needed it.  Wouldn't the best thing had been to return that to the overnment as funds that were not needed and then use their profit to pay back the loan portion?

Loving the air ride suspension yes indeed I am

Loving the air ride suspension yes indeed I am

How about the ecodiesel, early impressions?

It gives you a really neat fender badge *L* I actually bought it sight unseen and the stone guard's still curing, so I take procession of it tomorrow. I'll be doing a little review thingie, possibly.

Please do, will be looking forward to it!

Loving the air ride suspension yes indeed I am

Glad U are enjoying your truck.. sheesh

Now.. back to coddling the Short Bus Boy

Excuse me, they used tarp money that had been put in an escrow fund IN CASE they needed it.  Wouldn't the best thing had been to return that to the overnment as funds that were not needed and then use their profit to pay back the loan portion?

Uuuuh No. U have seemingly about as much business sense as U have sense.. which means none. Going to the TARP money opens up a can of worms that U really should leave closed.. as of today.. FCA paid back $10.6 billion which is about $2 billion less than the $12.5 billion the company borrowed from TARP. Fiat has a thing with stealing $2Billion I think.. What makes it worse is that for all intent.. the U.S. Gov't GAVE Fiat Chrysler, GM stayed under Gov't ownership until THEY bought the Gov't out or the Gov't sold off its shares. Get your facts straight F-Boy (that could mean TWO things ) before U respond. 

Barra says GM committed to plan, dismisses FCA merger

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2015/06/09/gm-barra-fca/28730329/

Loving the air ride suspension yes indeed I am

 

 

 

Glad U are enjoying your truck.. sheesh

 

Now.. back to coddling the Short Bus Boy

*L* I knew you'd take a dig eventually

What can I say. That Sergio, he's a GOOD CANADIAN KID! (TM Don Cherry)

You are certainly the one on the short bus.  Go back to loving GM and ignoring their faults........  like you always do (seriously, you are like the GM version of wings when it comes to GM). In respect to Drew I am done with you, you have lready made a big enough fool of yourself with your pro GM, anti-everything else attitude.....

Casa is pro-GM, big-time, but Drew comes off as pretty even-handed to me. He likes the Pentastar V6 more than me, that's fer sure.

Casa is pro-GM, big-time, but Drew comes off as pretty even-handed to me. He likes the Pentastar V6 more than me, that's fer sure.

I agree, i meant trying to respect him asking us to cool off

Off-topic:  local used car lot has a Black express 4x4 hemi that is really tempting me.

It's your money, so by all means buy it!

You are certainly the one on the short bus.  Go back to loving GM and ignoring their faults........  like you always do (seriously, you are like the GM version of wings when it comes to GM). In respect to Drew I am done with you, you have lready made a big enough fool of yourself with your pro GM, anti-everything else attitude.....

Put me on your ignore list... I won't do the same. I like reading foolish commentary by people who swear to be holier than thou.. and non-biased, while at the same time.. holding a company as effed up as Fix it Again Tony high up on the latter of greatness. 

I constantly pull GM out about their faults.. the existing cars are very seldom their issue.. its the ones they choose to forego... markets they choose to ignore.  

The Malibu might be their biggest screw up in recent history.. and even that car is still at least 5th on the market. Its biggest flaw??? The rear seat room. An issue that I have " no dog in that fight."

The ELR??? Awesome car, but over priced for essentially a two seater. Issue with car? NONE.

ATS and CTS sales??? Well lets see. The CTS sees a drop in sales from last Gen after a major price hike and a drop of variations. How much of a drop? About 40%. How much of a percentage did the Coupe and VSeries account for? About 40%. Wagon was a bonus. ATS needs the same CArs that it competes with are brands in and of themselves in variation. 

I am just not reading your posts so you might as well quit quoting me, maybe you should take your meds?

My EcoDiesel has the 3.92:1 rear end. I didn't know that could even be a thing. I couldn't build one online like that.

I read Sergio is still trying to get a merger with GM, and trying to get people to buy some chunks of GM stock to help influence that.  Perhaps his thought is to put projects on hold, because if he can get a merger some of those products will be shelved, and the more cash on hand the better FCA looks in the short term. 

Clearly Sergio is trying to Merger, just seems that no one is buying what he is selling.

I read, possibly on Autoextremist, that the program delays would fatten up the coffers a bit, and so make the company more merger-friendly.

Maybe Sergio can convince Kirk Kerkorian (who is somehow sill alive) that a merger is a good idea and get him to buy $3 billion worth of GM stock.  Then he can get Ferdinand Piech (who is now without an automotive home) to buy $3 billion of GM stock.  That will give those 2 10% ownership in GM and with FCA money or a hedge fund they could buy up another 5% and maybe try to pressure the board on a merger.

Better yet, maybe Sergio can swing a three-way merger of VW, GM and Chrysler to build the super auto union.  20 brands under 1 roof.  Strength through unity, unity through strength.

 

You are certainly the one on the short bus.  Go back to loving GM and ignoring their faults........  like you always do (seriously, you are like the GM version of wings when it comes to GM). In respect to Drew I am done with you, you have lready made a big enough fool of yourself with your pro GM, anti-everything else attitude.....

 

 

Put me on your ignore list... I won't do the same. I like reading foolish commentary by people who swear to be holier than thou.. and non-biased, while at the same time.. holding a company as effed up as Fix it Again Tony high up on the latter of greatness. 

 

I constantly pull GM out about their faults.. the existing cars are very seldom their issue.. its the ones they choose to forego... markets they choose to ignore.  

 

The Malibu might be their biggest screw up in recent history.. and even that car is still at least 5th on the market. Its biggest flaw??? The rear seat room. An issue that I have " no dog in that fight."

 

The ELR??? Awesome car, but over priced for essentially a two seater. Issue with car? NONE.

 

ATS and CTS sales??? Well lets see. The CTS sees a drop in sales from last Gen after a major price hike and a drop of variations. How much of a drop? About 40%. How much of a percentage did the Coupe and VSeries account for? About 40%. Wagon was a bonus. ATS needs the same CArs that it competes with are brands in and of themselves in variation. 

 

casa,

hold on, the CTS sold with an avg incentive last year (2014) of $9,213 and this year kicked off with a $3K price drop and $2,200 worth of options now offered for free (per link below).  Combined with the V and V-Sport series being offered this year, it still saw a 38% drop last month, one of GM's best months in a long while.  

And the ATS has always, from it's first full year, needed large incentives to move in volumes that are not exactly note worthy either.  And it too has V series variations as well.   So you need new excuses for their sales numbers, especially with the entire brand down 6.5% last year, where the segment was up significantly for most others.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150107/RETAIL/150109928/cadillac-drops-price-on-cts-sedan-by-up-to-$3000

So back to the original story, FCA is holding up new product to in essence increase on hand cash to appear more attractive to some buyer for a merge.

Why would this not be a good thing for KIA or Hyundia to consider? Would give them a large portfolio and grow them much faster than trying to build their own products.

 

 

You are certainly the one on the short bus.  Go back to loving GM and ignoring their faults........  like you always do (seriously, you are like the GM version of wings when it comes to GM). In respect to Drew I am done with you, you have lready made a big enough fool of yourself with your pro GM, anti-everything else attitude.....

 

 

Put me on your ignore list... I won't do the same. I like reading foolish commentary by people who swear to be holier than thou.. and non-biased, while at the same time.. holding a company as effed up as Fix it Again Tony high up on the latter of greatness. 

 

I constantly pull GM out about their faults.. the existing cars are very seldom their issue.. its the ones they choose to forego... markets they choose to ignore.  

 

The Malibu might be their biggest screw up in recent history.. and even that car is still at least 5th on the market. Its biggest flaw??? The rear seat room. An issue that I have " no dog in that fight."

 

The ELR??? Awesome car, but over priced for essentially a two seater. Issue with car? NONE.

 

ATS and CTS sales??? Well lets see. The CTS sees a drop in sales from last Gen after a major price hike and a drop of variations. How much of a drop? About 40%. How much of a percentage did the Coupe and VSeries account for? About 40%. Wagon was a bonus. ATS needs the same CArs that it competes with are brands in and of themselves in variation. 

 

casa,

hold on, the CTS sold with an avg incentive last year (2014) of $9,213 and this year kicked off with a $3K price drop and $2,200 worth of options now offered for free (per link below).  Combined with the V and V-Sport series being offered this year, it still saw a 38% drop last month, one of GM's best months in a long while.  

 

And the ATS has always, from it's first full year, needed large incentives to move in volumes that are not exactly note worthy either.  And it too has V series variations as well.   So you need new excuses for their sales numbers, especially with the entire brand down 6.5% last year, where the segment was up significantly for most others.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150107/RETAIL/150109928/cadillac-drops-price-on-cts-sedan-by-up-to-$3000

 

No offense Wings.. The portion on Cadillac was directed at another poster in response to him saying that I was ignorant or ignoring GM faults. I followed with the issues currently prevalent.. If U wish to have a Cadillac sales argument.. then go into one of the Cadillac threads. 

Let's stay on topic.. and talk about FCA

So back to the original story, FCA is holding up new product to in essence increase on hand cash to appear more attractive to some buyer for a merge.

 

Why would this not be a good thing for KIA or Hyundia to consider? Would give them a large portfolio and grow them much faster than trying to build their own products.

None of these makers wants to touch FCA. There is a rumor that a great deal of its books are cooked.. and that even the sales numbers that we are seeing are not always a REAL-ality.

FCA's only real asset is Jeep. That's it. Ferrari is spun off so I doubt it would even be a real consideration if the merger occurred. Over at Allpar some idiot actually suggested that GM would benefit from getting the LX platform.. the LX Platform!!! Goes to show U that the absolute ignorance of fanboism. I say again that the only thing that GM would benefit from would be Jeep.. and the off chance of getting Ferrari and maaaaaaaaaaybe Maserati. The latter being a big maybe as I really feel as tho that ship sailed in the 80s.. and the remnants of its cache are attached to those still stuck in that time.

Review:

Jeep: Absolutely a benefit to GM. The name is iconic.. and its vehicles are well known in the off-road community.  Would I could see is the engines being replaced by GM engines and trannys. Why pay an OE like ZF for tech that U already build yourself? On the larger front they could stand to benefit from GMC ad GM engineering in terms of powertrain and reliability

Fiat: No benefit to anyone.. not even Fiat. They are a money loser in the way Saab was a money loser costing way to much to make, not being able to be sold at the premium necessary to recoup cost. The benefit of Saab was that it had great engineering that worked in synergy with Opel and onward to GM.. in particular Turbos. Fiat.. NONE of that. 

Ferrari: GM has Corvette.. but having Ferrari and Corvette would essentially give GM the prestige that eludes the Corvette brand simply because its American and under the "every man's brand" Chevy (Should have always been a Cadillac). I wonder tho.. as GM once owned Lotus, and Ford owned Aston and Jag.. none of which ever brought any real benefits to the American brands. I am convinced that Ferrari would still be an asset as long as GM allowed it to run as it is.

Dodge: The only reason I'd keep Dodge is because of the demise of Pontiac and a need for Rental cars. Dodge would be that. No one wants to hear it, but at the end of the day the only vehicle that is not heavy fleet at Dodge is the Challenger. The Hellcat motor??? Nope.. Chevy has an equal engine despite it having less HP.. which I believe is a marketing ploy and for simple reasons due to a down sized blower. 

Ram: I would keep it for the sake of current Ram buyers. That's it. It offers no benefit over the Silvy/Sierra other than price. The diesel??? Seriously if GM wanted to put a diesel in their 1500 it would be there. I could see it being left  in play for about a gen or two.. but at some point someone is gonna come along and say "WTF are we selling 3 Pick-Up brands trucks for?"

Chrysler: I'm sorry. This one is around strictly for the sake of Mopar fans. I could see the name continuing so there is no back-lash ala Pontiac, but the dealership count would drop by 60%. Seriously.. why have Chrysler when U have BUICK.. which is selling 1.2Million + globally?

Alfa: ??? Another money loser and like Lancia would be a regional brand pretty much exclusive to Italy. 

Abarth, SRT, and Mopar would continue in their own functions for the brands they are currently assigned

Benefit to FCA??? Survival. Currently Fiat is about $14 Billion in debt that we kno of. I could easily see GM merging the assets but Bankrupting Fiat in Europe. The majority of Fiat there is in a losing competition with Opel. 

Chrylser fans will balk at what I'm saying from their own Fanboi and enthusiastic reasoning.. but from a business stand point what I'm saying is true. Well actually the truth is that GM really doesn't need any of this as they really should be working on their own issues with expanding Cadillac . The Jeep thing could be summed up with a revisit to the Hummer line, with a slight bit less ostentatious approach via GMC. Having the GMC professional grade branding with true off-road capable vehicles.. which existed within Hummer would make the Jeep commentary null. In that situation a line-up with a returned H3, H3T, a smaller H4, and a simple Coloroa/Canyon ZR2 based SUV the size of the GC would make my point even more valid, because in reality the pick-of the litter at Jeep is pretty much the GC, the Cherokee, and the Wrangler