Rumorpile: Chevrolet Ponders An Expansion of the Corvette

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

Or how Porsche took a 50+ year 911 rear-engined sports car and made it a battery 4-dr sedan?

I agree that there's no reason or market desire for a 'Corvette SUV', but there ARE like production examples out there in the industry.

GM can try anything they want IMHO...I would rather see them try to innovate and fail rather than see them rest on their laurels. Early 60's corvairs were a wild bunch of vehicles with a billion variants. 

They were a sales failure, but creative. 

Being in a creative mindset brought us all kinds of awesome GM cars that were profitable. '

Rather than whining and wringing my hands, I am going to sit back and watch the show. 

31 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

They were a sales failure

Wherever did you get that idea from?

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The day the Corvette becomes an SUV is the day the Corvette dies.  
 

I don’t think they should turn the Camaro into an SUV either, and I do think that name plate will die because coupes are like 2% market share. 
 

I think It better for Chevy to use names like Belle Aire, Kodiak, Scottsdale, etc dig up some names that have been dead a while for EV’s, especially Belle Aire, what is more trendy California than an electric car.

Will the Maybach name die because it decided to go with a lesser priced S-Class as its base?

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Personally, I don't mind them doing their work for the A45/CLA45. Those are pretty nasty little vehicles and deserve respect, imo. Even though their price tags don't exactly match what all you're getting, also imo. 

My gripe is with the A35, C43 and E53. Ya know, that ones with basically the badge stuck on the trunk/steering wheel/wheels/seats to an otherwise basic vehicle. 

And you know damn well the guy with kids and money will have the Vette SUV parked next to his 2-door Vette. 

While I get the naming/branding isn't exactly "ideal", I also don't see anything truly wrong with it, like the Mustang Mach-E. The name of the vehicle would never stop me from buying something nor would it make me buy something. It's just a name. 

"respect" wasn't my point although I see what you're saying. And you're absolutely right about dad parking a Vette SUV right next to his mid-engine monster.

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Wherever did you get that idea from?

They only sold varients that took a lot of engeneering expense in small volumes. 

1 hour ago, ykX said:

People were saying exactly same thing when Porsche made their first Cayenne.  Now Lamborghini and Aston Martin making crossovers as well. 

Personally, I am not happy they will be using names like Corvette or Mustang for crossovers, and yes here is naming not the same as Porsche or Lamborgini is using.  But for GM and Ford Corvette and Mustang represent almost like a separate brand. If selling those crossovers will make sure GM and Ford continues making sports cars like Corvette and Mustang in the future, same way Porsche, Aston Martin and others are paying for 911s and such, I am ok with that.  That is today's reality, the majority of people want practical vehicle and spending a lot of money on development of low volume sports car becomes harder and harder.  I would rather see them sell Mustang crossovers and make real Mustang pure sports car that associates less with rental low end Mustang.

Porsche didn’t call their SUV the 911.  
 

Chevrolet should not call their SUV a Corvette.

Now if Corvette is going to spun out of Chevrolet into it’s own stand alone dealers as an all EV brand with 5-6 models and and an electric charging network at the dealers then that is a different argument.  But this is why GM has Cadillac.  

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Porsche didn’t call their SUV the 911.  
 

Chevrolet should not call their SUV a Corvette.

Now if Corvette is going to spun out of Chevrolet into it’s own stand alone dealers as an all EV brand with 5-6 models and and an electric charging network at the dealers then that is a different argument.  But this is why GM has Cadillac.  

They didn't call it that but they faced the same criticisms of brand dilution. That is what you are not understanding here in your quest to, yet again, bash a domestic car.

21 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Will the Maybach name die because it decided to go with a lesser priced S-Class as its base?

"respect" wasn't my point although I see what you're saying. And you're absolutely right about dad parking a Vette SUV right next to his mid-engine monster.

Maybach was a brand with its own dealers, not a model like the Corvette is a model sold by Chevy.  And the brand was dead.  Actually GMC Hummer is almost the same thing, take a dead brand name and repackage it under a current brand.  GMC with Denali does the same thing Mercedes does with Maybach and it is a good idea to have an up level luxury trim.

GM has Cadillac to make high performance SUV’s.  If Cadillac is the luxury/performance arm at GM they should be all over that.  If someone buys a Lyriq and a C8, the money from both goes to the same place.

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

They didn't call it that but they faced the same criticisms of brand dilution. That is what you are not understanding here in your quest to, yet again, bash a domestic car.

I am not bashing a domestic car, I am saying calling an SUV a Mustang or Corvette is dumb.  Ford Mach-E would have been a perfect name for that vehicle.  Just like Bell Aire would be a good name for a Chevy electric SUV and they can offer some bright colors as options unlike the VW iD4 that you get white, gray or black unless you get the top trim them blue is an option. 

40 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

They only sold varients that took a lot of engeneering expense in small volumes. 

Corvair volumes were very solid- over 300,000 in some years (not including the Corvair truck lines). Honda doesn’t move that many accords now.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Maybach was a brand with its own dealers, not a model like the Corvette is a model sold by Chevy.  And the brand was dead.  Actually GMC Hummer is almost the same thing, take a dead brand name and repackage it under a current brand.  GMC with Denali does the same thing Mercedes does with Maybach and it is a good idea to have an up level luxury trim.

GM has Cadillac to make high performance SUV’s.  If Cadillac is the luxury/performance arm at GM they should be all over that.  If someone buys a Lyriq and a C8, the money from both goes to the same place.

I am not bashing a domestic car, I am saying calling an SUV a Mustang or Corvette is dumb.  Ford Mach-E would have been a perfect name for that vehicle.  Just like Bell Aire would be a good name for a Chevy electric SUV and they can offer some bright colors as options unlike the VW iD4 that you get white, gray or black unless you get the top trim them blue is an option. 

Way to miss the point entirely. I guess, by your “logic”, thats it okay for Benz to do that because it’s done at a different dealership. Think about what you said for just a second. Sounds like they just trying to hide the fact that their $300K Maybach is just a stretched out $92K S-Class. 

And yes, you are bashing a domestic car, like you always do.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Corvair volumes were very solid- over 300,000 in some years (not including the Corvair truck lines). Honda doesn’t move that many accords now.

I was thinking specifically of things like the corvair pickup trucks, vans, and other odd variants. My bad, I should have been clear. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Way to miss the point entirely. I guess, by your “logic”, thats it okay for Benz to do that because it’s done at a different dealership. Think about what you said for just a second. Sounds like they just trying to hide the fact that their $300K Maybach is just a stretched out $92K S-Class. 

 

And yes, you are bashing a domestic car, like you always do.

Which Maybach?  The original was built in a modified W140 S-class chassis, but a Bentley Bentayga is based off an Audi A6 platform and no one cares because of how flexible these platforms are.

And offering a $200k Maybach S-class now is the opposite of diluting a brand.  It is pushing the s-class up market.  And there is no Maybach brand anymore so you can’t dilute it.  Just like the GMC Hummer doesn’t dilute the Hummer brand because the Hummer brand died in 2009.

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Which Maybach?  The original was built in a modified W140 S-class chassis, but a Bentley Bentayga is based off an Audi A6 platform and no one cares because of how flexible these platforms are.

And offering a $200k Maybach S-class now is the opposite of diluting a brand.  It is pushing the s-class up market.  And there is no Maybach brand anymore so you can’t dilute it.  Just like the GMC Hummer doesn’t dilute the Hummer brand because the Hummer brand died in 2009.

It most certainly is dulling the brand when said brand is supposed to compete with the likes Rolls Royce. and the Bentley is irrelevant as it is not essentially a stretched out A6, unlike the Mercedes-Maybach S 560 4MATIC Sedan. The same logic you use to criticize vehicles like the Escalade (calling it a dressed up Tahoe) applies to Maybach when it uses a dressed up S-Class, end of discussion. Again, you simply refuse to apply the same standard to Benz that you apply top literally EVERYONE else! That, in and of itself, kills any criticism you have to make towards GM and what they decide to do with the Vette name.

And the Hummer example does not apply here since it does not exist by itself anymore. It would be a more convincing argument if Hummer did still exist by itself and GMC decided to that. 

But Maybach was a dead brand, brought back to life as a trim level of the S-class and GLS.  Hummer was a dead brand brought back as a model, sort of different but same idea.

In keeping with that idea, GM has plenty of dead names they can use for EV’s, Bonneville, Aurora, Envoy, Riviera, Electra, Rainier, Aero X, Belle Aire, Eldorado, etc.  All those can work on EV’s.

It's 'Bel Air', by the way.

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It's 'Bel Air', by the way.

Yes, Chevy used the California spelling... the Ohio town is spelled Bellaire, and the Florida town is Belleair.  

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But Maybach was a dead brand, brought back to life as a trim level of the S-class and GLS.  Hummer was a dead brand brought back as a model, sort of different but same idea.

In keeping with that idea, GM has plenty of dead names they can use for EV’s, Bonneville, Aurora, Envoy, Riviera, Electra, Rainier, Aero X, Belle Aire, Eldorado, etc.  All those can work on EV’s.

Daimler brought back Maybach as a stand alone model before killing it again due to poor sales and then making it a package option on stretched S class sedans.

33 minutes ago, David said:

Daimler brought back Maybach as a stand alone model before killing it again due to poor sales and then making it a package option on stretched S class sedans.

Which really hasn’t changed as far as their models go. Has always been nothing more than a stretched out S-Class that could never compete with Rolls Royce or Bentley.

I have to give props to RR. It's entire history it was a heavily dated, noncompetitive throwback... but the current re-imaging has really stuck it on the top shelf. Bentley has very appropriate interiors, but absolutely lousy exterior design.

Both are head & shoulders over the badge-job maybach.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I have to give props to RR. It's entire history it was a heavily dated, noncompetitive throwback... but the current re-imaging has really stuck it on the top shelf. Bentley has very appropriate interiors, but absolutely lousy exterior design.

Both are head & shoulders over the badge-job maybach.

Rolls is good now because of the BMW running gear underneath them, so mechanically they are much more competitive than say the Rollers of the 90s that were really dated.  But Rolls is on point as far as design and interiors go.

The Maybach S650 has more hp, torque, technology and safety than any Rolls, it is also half the price.  The Maybach GLS580 is comparable on power and performance to the Cullinan and also half the price.  The Rolls have more opulent interiors, but the purpose of the current Maybach is to exist in the space between a standard S-class and a Rolls, not to compete head on with Rolls.  Consider a Phantom starts at $455,000, that is 4 S500's.

Corvette C8 E-Ray (and pretty much still in developmental stage)

Lovely, so it comes with a hunter's rack and a diesel generator?

@oldshurst442 Any further info on the box on back.

3 minutes ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 Any further info on the box on back.

Im trying to find out but nothing concrete.

Its assumed to be an emissions test device. 

An electric Corvette would be cool, if it is a C8 body and not an SUV.

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

It's 'Bel Air', by the way.

Unless one lives in the south and goes to a private all girls school. Then belle air is completely appropriate.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

I have to give props to RR. It's entire history it was a heavily dated, noncompetitive throwback... but the current re-imaging has really stuck it on the top shelf. Bentley has very appropriate interiors, but absolutely lousy exterior design.

Both are head & shoulders over the badge-job maybach.

No kidding. And outside of a very basic car like a VW GTI that the European car makers will have a difficult time effing up...I have zero desire to own ANY European car.

Few Euro bikes I like...Ducati Desert Sled for one.

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

An electric Corvette would be cool, if it is a C8 body and not an SUV.

I agree completely.

12 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I agree completely.

ZERO fire in its belly

9 hours ago, ocnblu said:

ZERO fire in its belly

Obviously you have never watched the videos of Tesla's beating Hellcats at the dragstrips.

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

ZERO fire in its belly

Says the fan of Korean four bangers but hey, don’t let that little bit of hypocrisy get in the way here.

14 hours ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 Any further info on the box on back.

Gas generator to charge the battery on the go?

14 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Obviously you have never watched the videos of Tesla's beating Hellcats at the dragstrips.

Here, take my hand and walk with me SLOWLY (keep your helmet on though).  The "fire in the belly" is the internal combustion soul of the car.  Should have been easy to decipher.

14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Here, take my hand and walk with me SLOWLY (keep your helmet on though).  The "fire in the belly" is the internal combustion soul of the car.  Should have been easy to decipher.

To me cars can have soul internal combustion or electric...just like locomotive can have soul diesel or steam...

What is embarrassing is no one else makes an EV as good as Tesla.   The Taycan is fast, but doesn't have the range of a Model S and it costs more.  Taycan interior looks nicer, but the Model S is old.  And after seeing the EQA, I am thinking Mercedes is putting not enough motor and too much price into their EV's.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What is embarrassing is no one else makes an EV as good as Tesla.

In the Mach-E vs. Model Y comparisons, the Ford is easily comparable.

20 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Says the fan of Korean four bangers but hey, don’t let that little bit of hypocrisy get in the way here.

???

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Here, take my hand and walk with me SLOWLY (keep your helmet on though).  The "fire in the belly" is the internal combustion soul of the car.  Should have been easy to decipher.

Because you’re so cerebral right? Not because you’re still on a thread about an EV, where you always offer such an objective comment in regards to them lol. 

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

???

So over the last few months, that wasn’t you touting Hyundais, Kias, and little three banger cars like the Escape while mocking the performance of much faster EVs? My mistake. Must have been some other pitiful hypocrite. 

15 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Because you’re so cerebral right? Not because you’re still on a thread about an EV, where you always offer such an objective comment in regards to them lol. 

So over the last few months, that wasn’t you touting Hyundais, Kias, and little three banger cars like the Escape while mocking the performance of much faster EVs? My mistake. Must have been some other pitiful hypocrite. 

Let's not forget he has his mom in a Kia on top of those two auto's he posted are not built in America last time I checked by Korea.

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What is embarrassing is no one else makes an EV as good as Tesla.   The Taycan is fast, but doesn't have the range of a Model S and it costs more.  Taycan interior looks nicer, but the Model S is old.  And after seeing the EQA, I am thinking Mercedes is putting not enough motor and too much price into their EV's.

Porsche has their less than $80,000 Taycan with the current battery pack, so prices are coming down.

Mercedes's has the Cost of Diesel gate hitting the bottom line and as such has been cutting back everywhere both ICE and EV. Will be interesting to see how they do as right now they are more focused on China and Europe with additional delays in the US.

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

In the Mach-E vs. Model Y comparisons, the Ford is easily better.

Fixed that for you, Balthazar.

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

???

I can easily upvote this. the Buick is genuinely nice. I ahve a korean built Chevy, its flawless and runs great. I plan to drive it to Mexico when Covid clears, maybe down further into Central America. 

While I like the Gm products here, I don't think they are ultiamtely competitive with the other Korean products, the Hyundai and Kia vehicles that seem to sell so well in the CUV/SUV segment. 

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Fixed that for you, Balthazar.

I can easily upvote this. the Buick is genuinely nice. I ahve a korean built Chevy, its flawless and runs great. I plan to drive it to Mexico when Covid clears, maybe down further into Central America. 

 

The blackout Trax looks neat.   After driving my sister's Trax from Florida to Ohio last year, it was actually was pretty decent to drive for a tiny hatchback...not bad at all. 

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

In the Mach-E vs. Model Y comparisons, the Ford is easily comparable.

The Model Y is faster and cheaper although I prefer the Mach-E’s interior with an actual center screen.  The Model Y has more range too.  They are comparable, but the Tesla seems like the better buy.  But I don’t think the iD4 or Bolt compare well to the Model Y and the iD4 isn’t even on sale yet.  Talk about aiming too low.

Also brand image matters a lot, Tesla brand image is Mercedes/BMW level and maybe better.  Ford/VW are a far cry from that.  I imagine all things being equal, people would pay $5k more for a Tesla than a VW or Ford.  

7 hours ago, David said:

 

Porsche has their less than $80,000 Taycan with the current battery pack, so prices are coming down.

Mercedes's has the Cost of Diesel gate hitting the bottom line and as such has been cutting back everywhere both ICE and EV. Will be interesting to see how they do as right now they are more focused on China and Europe with additional delays in the US.

The Taycan 4s is $103k and has 227 mile range and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  The $69K Model S beats both those figures, the $91k Model S Performance has a 387 mile range and 0-60 in 2.5 seconds.  Porsche should be selling the 4s at $80k, they are $23k too high.

Diesel fines have nothing to do with the pricing of the EQA and the Daimler R&D budget is pretty huge.  In fact Mercedes R&D budget is about 5 times Tesla’s.  That EQA and any other Mercedes EV should be priced competitively.  And final pricing isn’t out on the EQA so we’ll see what happens.  All I am saying is Mercedes and the rest better be competitive or else when gas cars get banned Tesla is going to own the car market.

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 They are comparable, but the Tesla seems like the better buy.

Mach-E has a better ride, Apple/Android car play, more amenities and much better quality for a much cheaper price. Ford is the better buy vs. the Model Y.

58 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Taycan 4s is $103k and has 227 mile range and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  The $69K Model S beats both those figures, the $91k Model S Performance has a 387 mile range and 0-60 in 2.5 seconds.  Porsche should be selling the 4s at $80k, they are $23k too high.

Diesel fines have nothing to do with the pricing of the EQA and the Daimler R&D budget is pretty huge.  In fact Mercedes R&D budget is about 5 times Tesla’s.  That EQA and any other Mercedes EV should be priced competitively.  And final pricing isn’t out on the EQA so we’ll see what happens.  All I am saying is Mercedes and the rest better be competitive or else when gas cars get banned Tesla is going to own the car market.

Porsche is doing what every company does with new tech to recover R&D costs.

Daimler is who you should be worried about as they DO NOT have that huge R&D budget you keep talking about as they have clearly cut back due to Diesel gate and I will remind you that Daimler stated in October 2020 that they were cutting car models and cutting R&D 20% a year across the board.

If they truly focus on taking Mercedes upmarket, then I doubt the prices even on their EQA is going to be price competitive for the masses. 

Daimler to cut fixed costs and take Mercedes more upmarket | Reuters

50 minutes ago, David said:

Porsche is doing what every company does with new tech to recover R&D costs.

Daimler is who you should be worried about as they DO NOT have that huge R&D budget you keep talking about as they have clearly cut back due to Diesel gate and I will remind you that Daimler stated in October 2020 that they were cutting car models and cutting R&D 20% a year across the board.

If they truly focus on taking Mercedes upmarket, then I doubt the prices even on their EQA is going to be price competitive for the masses. 

Daimler to cut fixed costs and take Mercedes more upmarket | Reuters

Daimler had a $10 billion R&D budget in 2019 vs Tesla’s $1.3 billion and $7.4 billion at Ford.   Their 20% cut is more aimed at fixed cost.  Daimler in December 2020 said they will invest 70 billion euros in EV’s from now until 2025.  Money isn’t a worry. 
 

The question is if they can build Tesla killers.  I think they can but they have to prove it.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Mach-E has a better ride, Apple/Android car play, more amenities and much better quality for a much cheaper price. Ford is the better buy vs. the Model Y.

They are priced about the same, the Model Y is $1,000 cheaper base price but I prefer the Ford interior of the 2 from what I’ve seen on video.  
 

But what is next for Ford also?  If the Mustang Mach-E is the top performance Ford EV, do they just go down from there?  The Model Y is the slowest Tesla.  For Ford I think electric F150 is key to get that market locked down before the Cybertruck takes it over.

9 hours ago, David said:

Let's not forget he has his mom in a Kia on top of those two auto's he posted are not built in America last time I checked by Korea.

Now you sound racist.  What is wrong with the South Koreans?  And tell me again about your wife's dislike of the white dash in a Bolt... as an excuse for why she doesn't drive one.  I don't "have" my mom in anything.  She leased, all on her own grown ass self, what she wanted to lease.  Not one penny from me.

25 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Now you sound racist.  What is wrong with the South Koreans?  And tell me again about your wife's dislike of the white dash in a Bolt... as an excuse for why she doesn't drive one.  I don't "have" my mom in anything.  She leased, all on her own grown ass self, what she wanted to lease.  Not one penny from me.

So now you’re just touting them and promoting them for family members but “buy American” for you? Is that what we are getting here? Guess we will just sidestep all the other contradictions, like you, yourself, buying Mexican made cars owned by the Italians and then ranting about gutless and lifeless EVs while promoting those little four pots mentioned above but god forbid someone put an American flag sticker on their Tundra (another past complaint of yours). That’s just a step too far for the all American beta male right?

44 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are priced about the same, the Model Y is $1,000 cheaper base price but I prefer the Ford interior of the 2 from what I’ve seen on video.  
 

But what is next for Ford also?  If the Mustang Mach-E is the top performance Ford EV, do they just go down from there?  The Model Y is the slowest Tesla.  For Ford I think electric F150 is key to get that market locked down before the Cybertruck takes it over.

Let me say this one more time. The Cybertruck is design garbage, utility garbage, and will be relegated to also ran status the moment any of the D3 makes goes all in on an EV pick up. 

42 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So now you’re just touting them and promoting them for family members but “buy American” for you?

Yeah, I wish the HHR still existed (she found the Korean-made Spark too small and too low), it would have been perfect for her.  Or the PT Cruiser.  Or the Caliber.  Or the Focus hatchback (although she wanted something with a higher hip point at the tender age of 76).  But alas... American manufacturers left her behind.

The Soul hits a sweet spot, and ppl love them because they are reasonably priced and packaged so well.  I also like the Venue, in loaded form.  The 2021 Kicks has a lot of personality, plus a kick-ass Bose sound system, heated leatherette seats, heated steering wheel, etc, all for around $25k.

The GMC Granite never materialized.  I was gaga over it, especially the pickup version.

Now, back on the wretched idea of an EV CUV with tacked-on Corvette styling cues please.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They are priced about the same, the Model Y is $1,000 cheaper base price but I prefer the Ford interior of the 2 from what I’ve seen on video.  
 

But what is next for Ford also?  If the Mustang Mach-E is the top performance Ford EV, do they just go down from there?  The Model Y is the slowest Tesla.  For Ford I think electric F150 is key to get that market locked down before the Cybertruck takes it over.

I came from a video where the Model Y stickered about $63K (plus it no longer has the fed rebate). Tesla options are expensive, if I recall correctly- video said 'autopilot' was 10 grand (and it wasn't on the $63K Y).

What's next for Ford is 2 more versions of the Mach-E, one of which is the upcoming Mach-E GT, so the available one is NOT the top performance EV. Then, a slew of other EVs reportedly.

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I came from a video where the Model Y stickered about $63K (plus it no longer has the fed rebate). Tesla options are expensive, if I recall correctly- video said 'autopilot' was 10 grand (and it wasn't on the $63K Y).

What's next for Ford is 2 more versions of the Mach-E, one of which is the upcoming Mach-E GT, so the available one is NOT the top performance EV. Then, a slew of other EVs reportedly.

But the Mach E GT starts at $60k and is slower with about 100 miles less range than the Tesla Model Y Performance that is $59k base and with the couple options outside of autopilot it is $63k.  

And Tesla has the Model S Plaid coming this year with 0-60 in under 2 seconds, 1/4 mile under 9 seconds, top speed 200 mph, range over 500 miles for $145k.   Not that I expect Ford to answer that, but Tesla is going to be throwing down some new performance standards.  So who is going to match it?  If GM wants to do an electric Corvette, maybe they can target those numbers, even though a sedan is doing that, which is insane.