And Now, The 2014 Chevrolet SS

I don't think they need a manual because few people buy them, and this car isn't going to sell in much volume anyway, if they offered a manual they might sell 300 a year, it isn't worth trying.

The styling is really bland and it looks closer to a Buick Regal than any Chevy product. I see it has the same bubble trunk as the Regal, Malibu and Cadillacs, I am hating that and don't know why GM is putting it on every car now. The 2014 Impala looks way better than the SS. The Interior of the SS is okay, looks like the Impala's.

Chevy managed to make a car even more boring and with less character than the Hyundai Genesis. The Genesis has 429 hp and an 8-speed though, and probably weighs less.

Anyone else think it odd that the full size Cadillac sedan has 300 hp and the full size Chevy sedan has 415? The ATS, CTS and XTS all get a 300ish HP V6 where at the V8s? And the CTS-V is hardly a sufficient offering when Mercedes has 7 passenger cars with an available V8.

Mercedes doesn't have any 7-passenger cars.

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:00 AM, balthazar said:

Mercedes doesn't have any 7-passenger cars.

Invalid statement. E-class wagon has an available 3rd row.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/class/features/class-E/vehicle-versatility/bodystyle-WGN

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:00 AM, balthazar said:

Mercedes doesn't have any 7-passenger cars.

7 different car models with a V8. C-Class, E-class, S-class (CL-Class merging with S-class in 2014), CLS, SLK, SL, SLS. Cadillac has 1, Chevy now has 3. Cadillac needs some more love in the high performance area, or even just mid-range V8 luxury sedan, Hyundai makes more V8 sedans than Cadillac.

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:00 AM, Camino LS6 said:

If the case you are making is that GM could only afford 1 transmission, then they chose the wrong one for this sort of car.

Besideswhich, it's the same damn trans the Camaro has.

spend how much to certify, advertise, and distribute a car that only 300 people would buy (without an automatic)? They would have to price it at 50k to make up for the 20k in marketing costs each car would bear just to get the word out.

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:30 AM, smk4565 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:00 AM, balthazar said:

Mercedes doesn't have any 7-passenger cars.

7 different car models with a V8. C-Class, E-class, S-class (CL-Class merging with S-class in 2014), CLS, SLK, SL, SLS. Cadillac has 1, Chevy now has 3. Cadillac needs some more love in the high performance area, or even just mid-range V8 luxury sedan, Hyundai makes more V8 sedans than Cadillac.

Apples and oranges, though...GM's bread and butter is cheap FWD appliances...Mercedes is all about expensive RWD models..though they are sadly getting into the appliance thing also.

Back to the SS though, it is just a disappointing car, and another example of wasted resources. The Malibu is a mess, yet GM loves to get distracted by cars like the SS, SSR pickup, Sky/Solstice, etc. As much as I don't like Toyota, at least they focus on what matters and sell a boat load of appliances.

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:32 AM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:30 AM, smk4565 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:00 AM, balthazar said:

Mercedes doesn't have any 7-passenger cars.

7 different car models with a V8. C-Class, E-class, S-class (CL-Class merging with S-class in 2014), CLS, SLK, SL, SLS. Cadillac has 1, Chevy now has 3. Cadillac needs some more love in the high performance area, or even just mid-range V8 luxury sedan, Hyundai makes more V8 sedans than Cadillac.

Apples and oranges, though...GM's bread and butter is cheap FWD appliances...Mercedes is all about expensive RWD models..though they are sadly getting into the appliance thing also.

Well Cadillac wants to be "Standard of the World" so that means expensive RWD V8 and V12 models and 200 mph super cars. Standard of the World means going up against Mercedes, Rolls, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc. Where is Cadillac's Lexus LFA or Audi R8 rival? Where is the V12 sedan to compete with the S600, Bentley Flying Spur and Rolls Royce Ghost. Cadillac is just not there, and never will be because GM is about FWD appliances. Which is fine, Toyota has been makings billions of profit for years on appliances.

Why are we now talking about Cadillac and freakin' Mercedes in a Chevrolet thread???

Focus, people.

Blah. GM continues being dead to me.

I must be the only one who likes the styling of it? The only thing I really don't care about is the park assist and lane departure warning. Id love to have one, but I highly doubt it will be in my price point so it looks like I'll have to pick up a nice second hand G8.

On a side note the automatic transmission doesn't bother me either. My wifes Cruze and my Silverado with the manual shift mode work great to me.

  On 2/17/2013 at 12:46 AM, balthazar said:

No, it's pretty much the same place.

But I believe dfelt was referring to the flair & fluidity (& level of uniqueness) of the SS concept, whereas this SS gives a rather generic serving of the 'same old'.

Exactly, You read me well my friend.

I have never been a fan of the G8's styling -- I hated those Pontiac nostrils (fake intakes on the hood). But this is, well, pretty uninspiring if rather unoffensive. Honestly, even the Malibu's nose look better sculpted and purposeful. Overall the VF Commodore looks better and more coherent -- not that it's that stunning either.

Why the LS3 is sticking around is baffling. The LT1 should be standardized across the board.

Personally, I don't see why they needed the Impala and the Malibu. These two should be one product. The Malibu should have been on the Impala's longer wheelbase and the Impala should be de-contented to be inline with the Malibu's price point. The car should have a V6 for people who want one. The SS being V8 only isn't a bad idea. Anyone who will rather have better mileage can get a Bu. Anyone who wants more luxury can buy a Buick if the preference is FWD or a Caddy if the preference is RWD.

Chevy needs to focus on being the value brand. Buick as the comfort luxury brand. And Caddy the sport luxury brand. There should be as little overlap in products as possible between these. GM is not doing that...

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:31 AM, regfootball said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:00 AM, Camino LS6 said:

If the case you are making is that GM could only afford 1 transmission, then they chose the wrong one for this sort of car.

Besideswhich, it's the same damn trans the Camaro has.

spend how much to certify, advertise, and distribute a car that only 300 people would buy (without an automatic)? They would have to price it at 50k to make up for the 20k in marketing costs each car would bear just to get the word out.

Utter nonsense!

If offered, the manual would account for nearly half of sales.

This is a limited production performance car, and the intended market wants the manual.

GM did learn (through G8 and Camaro sales) that it doesn't make sense to import a v6 version, but they seem to have missed the memo on the manual transmission.

While opinion is divided on the styling, the desire for a manual is overwhelming - just scan around enthusiast sites (the target market).

This car is meant to be an enthusiast's car, so the normal dumbing-down to an automatic is exactly the wrong way to sell it.

As for marketing, those who want the car already know about it.. And with expected volumes of 3-5000 per year acceptable to Mark Reuss, how much advertising do you need for a car that makes its own news?

You have to understand performance cars and performance car buyers - the usual sheeple coddling doesn't apply.

  On 2/17/2013 at 12:21 PM, Camino LS6 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:31 AM, regfootball said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:00 AM, Camino LS6 said:

If the case you are making is that GM could only afford 1 transmission, then they chose the wrong one for this sort of car.

Besideswhich, it's the same damn trans the Camaro has.

spend how much to certify, advertise, and distribute a car that only 300 people would buy (without an automatic)? They would have to price it at 50k to make up for the 20k in marketing costs each car would bear just to get the word out.

Utter nonsense!

If offered, the manual would account for nearly half of sales.

This is a limited production performance car, and the intended market wants the manual.

GM did learn (through G8 and Camaro sales) that it doesn't make sense to import a v6 version, but they seem to have missed the memo on the manual transmission.

While opinion is divided on the styling, the desire for a manual is overwhelming - just scan around enthusiast sites (the target market).

This car is meant to be an enthusiast's car, so the normal dumbing-down to an automatic is exactly the wrong way to sell it.

As for marketing, those who want the car already know about it.. And with expected volumes of 3-5000 per year acceptable to Mark Reuss, how much advertising do you need for a car that makes its own news?

You have to understand performance cars and performance car buyers - the usual sheeple coddling doesn't apply.

Of course, in order to support your statements, you have to make the assumption that enthusiasts and performance car buyers ONLY drive manuals. That's far from true.

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:44 PM, Lamar said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 12:21 PM, Camino LS6 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:31 AM, regfootball said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:00 AM, Camino LS6 said:

If the case you are making is that GM could only afford 1 transmission, then they chose the wrong one for this sort of car.

Besideswhich, it's the same damn trans the Camaro has.

spend how much to certify, advertise, and distribute a car that only 300 people would buy (without an automatic)? They would have to price it at 50k to make up for the 20k in marketing costs each car would bear just to get the word out.

Utter nonsense!

If offered, the manual would account for nearly half of sales.

This is a limited production performance car, and the intended market wants the manual.

GM did learn (through G8 and Camaro sales) that it doesn't make sense to import a v6 version, but they seem to have missed the memo on the manual transmission.

While opinion is divided on the styling, the desire for a manual is overwhelming - just scan around enthusiast sites (the target market).

This car is meant to be an enthusiast's car, so the normal dumbing-down to an automatic is exactly the wrong way to sell it.

As for marketing, those who want the car already know about it.. And with expected volumes of 3-5000 per year acceptable to Mark Reuss, how much advertising do you need for a car that makes its own news?

You have to understand performance cars and performance car buyers - the usual sheeple coddling doesn't apply.

Of course, in order to support your statements, you have to make the assumption that enthusiasts and performance car buyers ONLY drive manuals. That's far from true.

Not at all.

But on a car of this sort, a manual option is required.

I feel the lack of the manual and new engine is a major marketing mistake. But I would love to see or hear all the facts involved as things are not always as easy and straight forward as they appear. The BS they had to go through and the cost involved for the GTO was crazy and a lot more than most realize.

Now that is not to excuse the mistake here but just something we all need to consider. Bringing these cars over is not the same as building them in Lansing.

The only way I see to fix many of the issues here is to move the 2016 car built here to the Camaro, CTS and ATS line if it is on the Alpha. This would resolve much of what is involved and let us have more of what we want.

Trust me if it was such a slam dunk the people opposed to it at GM would have no argument but when in fact they do.

The pace car at Daytona look good in blue and white stripes.

Well, this was it. The last chance to get it right for the Zeta cars.

The way I see it, the strategy they have adopted here is just the final mistake in a long history of mistakes.

Zeta was wasted, and its potential barely explored.

All that I can do now is hope that a few tweaks can be applied to the SS in time to make it somewhat successful.

Lacking that, a flop with this car could be used to seal the fate of GM RWD going forward.

So, warts and all, I hope this thing sells.

Interesting tidbit posted on CZ28.com :

The manual trans take rate for the G8 GXP was 46%!!!

Back to dwight's post, Chevy has Malibu and Impala for the same reason Ford has Fusion and Taurus, Nissan has Altima and Maxima, Toyota has Camry and Avalon. Midsize 4 cyl appliance, full size 4cyl and V6 appliance. Covering two major volume niches.

As for the SS, if there is a next generation, I wonder if their will be one NA made model to cover performance (SS) and police (PPV) use...for 2014 at least, there are two related-but-distinct models (SS and Caprice PPV) for those niches.

  On 2/17/2013 at 7:10 AM, dwightlooi said:

I have never been a fan of the G8's styling -- I hated those Pontiac nostrils (fake intakes on the hood). But this is, well, pretty uninspiring if rather unoffensive. Honestly, even the Malibu's nose look better sculpted and purposeful. Overall the VF Commodore looks better and more coherent -- not that it's that stunning either.

Why the LS3 is sticking around is baffling. The LT1 should be standardized across the board.

Personally, I don't see why they needed the Impala and the Malibu. These two should be one product. The Malibu should have been on the Impala's longer wheelbase and the Impala should be de-contented to be inline with the Malibu's price point. The car should have a V6 for people who want one. The SS being V8 only isn't a bad idea. Anyone who will rather have better mileage can get a Bu. Anyone who wants more luxury can buy a Buick if the preference is FWD or a Caddy if the preference is RWD.

Chevy needs to focus on being the value brand. Buick as the comfort luxury brand. And Caddy the sport luxury brand. There should be as little overlap in products as possible between these. GM is not doing that...

I disagree that the Malibu and Impala should be one product, as Hyundai has the Sonata and Azera, Toyota the Camry and Avalon. There is room for both. I could see them making the Imapala and SS into one product though, as the Impala looks better, this gives Chevy something in line with the Charger and 300.

Having 3 sedans, and them overlapping Buick is a bit too much though. A good idea may have been to make the Impala RWD so that it wasn't the same size and prize as a LaCrosse.

I do agree that Chevy needs to be the value brand though, which is why a possibly $45,000 base price V8 sedan doesn't make a lot of sense.

In all honesty, I'd have been perfectly happy with a Ute or wagon equipped no better than the VE/G8 as far as electronica goes. And, I'd have even been happy with the old 350HP LS1 - if the car had a manual.

My GTO was so equipped, and it was a ball to drive.

Dodge and Ford are also 'value brands' and have sedans that range that high in price, though. Buick is just filler between Chevy and Cadillac, sort of how Mercury was between Ford and Lincoln, so there is going to be overlap.

Daryl, thanks for posting that. Great!

In 1983, Chevrolet lowballed the sales chances of the Monte Carlo SS homologation special... and we know what happened there, it became a great seller for Chevrolet, with a lot of goodwill for the brand.

This is what the SS is for.

All the more reason to get the product just right.

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:45 AM, smk4565 said:

Well Cadillac wants to be "Standard of the World" so that means expensive RWD V8 and V12 models and 200 mph super cars. Standard of the World means going up against Mercedes, Rolls, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc. Where is Cadillac's Lexus LFA or Audi R8 rival? Where is the V12 sedan to compete with the S600, Bentley Flying Spur and Rolls Royce Ghost. Cadillac is just not there, and never will be because GM is about FWD appliances. Which is fine, Toyota has been makings billions of profit for years on appliances.

One thing at a time! And they are focusing on the right priorities. Get into the luxury compact segment first with the ATS -- that's the biggest slice of the pie and they weren't even fighting for it. Get the CTS updated and moved upmarket so it can be a 5-series / E-class competitor. Next up the LTS to be in the S-class segment. Everything else can and should come later. The only mistake they made thus far, IMHO, is the XTS. That should have been the Buick flagship.

Lexus and Audi were successful before the LF-A or the R8. And one can argue that they could be just as successful with or without those cars. Adding a XLR is not going to change their market share or balance sheet tangibly. Competing with the LF-A or R8 is not particularly difficult. Drop a 7.0L or supercharged derivative of the LT1 (550~650 bhp) into a more carbon intensive version of the C7 platform and you have a super car that can run with a Ferrari. But, as much of a Halo car as that may be, it is not worth delaying the LTS over.

Standing back a bit, I could certainly get behind the Malibu & Impala becoming a single model (aside from the emotional reaction to dropping one of the nameplates). The Azera/Avalon analogy doesn't hold great import, as those cars sell in relatively small numbers (well, the Azera does). IMO, these classes of car just aren't that different functionally/size-wise that their parallel existence is so mandatory, they're just different flavors of the same ice cream (same goes for the import examples cited above).

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:49 PM, Camino LS6 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:44 PM, Lamar said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 12:21 PM, Camino LS6 said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 4:31 AM, regfootball said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 1:00 AM, Camino LS6 said:

If the case you are making is that GM could only afford 1 transmission, then they chose the wrong one for this sort of car.

Besideswhich, it's the same damn trans the Camaro has.

spend how much to certify, advertise, and distribute a car that only 300 people would buy (without an automatic)? They would have to price it at 50k to make up for the 20k in marketing costs each car would bear just to get the word out.

Utter nonsense!

If offered, the manual would account for nearly half of sales.

This is a limited production performance car, and the intended market wants the manual.

GM did learn (through G8 and Camaro sales) that it doesn't make sense to import a v6 version, but they seem to have missed the memo on the manual transmission.

While opinion is divided on the styling, the desire for a manual is overwhelming - just scan around enthusiast sites (the target market).

This car is meant to be an enthusiast's car, so the normal dumbing-down to an automatic is exactly the wrong way to sell it.

As for marketing, those who want the car already know about it.. And with expected volumes of 3-5000 per year acceptable to Mark Reuss, how much advertising do you need for a car that makes its own news?

You have to understand performance cars and performance car buyers - the usual sheeple coddling doesn't apply.

Of course, in order to support your statements, you have to make the assumption that enthusiasts and performance car buyers ONLY drive manuals. That's far from true.

Not at all.

But on a car of this sort, a manual option is required.

how many people with the money in hand, ready to spend, when writing the check, will a) buy an SS and b) buy one with a manual.

then it's a matter of whether they can cover the cost of it.

When it comes down to brass tacks its one of two things, chevy either has determined there is no hard evidence to suggest they can make the numbers work on the manual (internet posters who never buy any new cars and can't probably afford the gas in the beater they already drive are certainly numerous on the net, or they may just simply be waiting some period of time to get the manual out. BMW never has the M version of each of its cars ready at the get go.

Well, GM's ambitions for this car are modest enough. And, 46% of GXP buyers is the best indicator you could ask for.

Yes, GM could be waiting to announce a manual - hopefully, that's the case.

Most of the folks posting about this actually own G8s or Camaros, or similar cars, and they are the target market.

So, I'll have to stick to my points on this.

It will be interesting to see why GM claims no Manual?

As for the Zeta how much of a waste will be decided by the 2016 as I see more ground being gained with a new platform. The coming Camaro will be proof of this very soon.

As for Malibu You either need to combine the Impala and Bu or the Bu and Cruze. Buick also has an issue with the Verano, Regal and Lacrosse. Some how I expect a realignment with these brands once the RWD sub Alpha is here or if it gets here. With Buick already making noise with a RWD midsize and Chevy making noise of a possible small RWD there is some major changes coming.

We need to remember the Regal and Bu are pre Chapter 11 cars and for the most part were used just because Chevy needed a new Bu ASAP and the Regal was a easy fix for Buick that had no real product or anything close.

The key is very much in what we do not know but either way GM did drop the ball here. They will be able to nurse this for two years but they had better get it right on the new clean sheet of paper.

I just hope the cost cutting is not in play here or it will send a very poor signal to the public.

The greatest key will be where the 2016 is built and I would keep an eye on the Lansing Plant.

There certainly is enough widespread pressure that GM will have to respond to the question of the manual.

I'd say the press release was vague enough that they could claim it was always part of the plan. At least I have not seen an official word that it will not be offered.

The waste I see in Zeta was how the architecture was handled from the very start. All of the back and forth, all of the indecision, they were just fumbling one aspect after the other - for years. So many missed opportunities, and expensive errors that one can hardly count them.

Hell, they practically had to be forced at gunpoint to build Camaro.

Very slow learners high up within GM.

If they have truly learned from all of that, and prove it with the deployment of Alpha, then maybe things really are getting better.

We shall see.

  On 2/17/2013 at 8:34 PM, Camino LS6 said:

There certainly is enough widespread pressure that GM will have to respond to the question of the manual.

I'd say the press release was vague enough that they could claim it was always part of the plan. At least I have not seen an official word that it will not be offered.

The waste I see in Zeta was how the architecture was handled from the very start. All of the back and forth, all of the indecision, they were just fumbling one aspect after the other - for years. So many missed opportunities, and expensive errors that one can hardly count them.

Hell, they practically had to be forced at gunpoint to build Camaro.

Very slow learners high up within GM.

If they have truly learned from all of that, and prove it with the deployment of Alpha, then maybe things really are getting better.

We shall see.

I do have to agree that there does seem to be very slow learning people at the helm...

I sat in a 2014 Impala today and have to say, I really like the interior. They did a great job on it, and the front end of that car looks sharp in person as well. The back of the Impala is sort of boring and doesn't really look like the other Chevy's but they nailed that interior and it has the best front end design of any Chevy.

The Malibu interior on the other hand looks tacky and the back seat room is non existent if the driver's seat is pushed back. The Malibu has nothing I liked about it and I can see why it is the 7th or 8th best selling car in the class despite being brand new. The Impala is too big though to compete with the Fusion, Camry, etc, so they need both.

The Impala and XTS have similar shapes and very similar interiors as far as how they are shaped and the size. GM does have an overlap problem, the Regal doesn't seem to fit in, and the XTS could have been a Park Avenue, and the Lacrosse maybe made a bit smaller and Regal deleted.

While the lack of a manual transmission is deflating, you also have to understand this car has one car dead in its sights: the Dodge Charger SRT8. The Charger SRT8 also lacks the option of a manual transmission and no one questions its image as an American performance icon.

Granted, yes a manual transmission would've given the SS an honest leg up on the competition, but I don't think the lack of that option thereof will really have a negative impact on sales or on the SS's image.

  On 2/17/2013 at 6:07 PM, balthazar said:

Standing back a bit, I could certainly get behind the Malibu & Impala becoming a single model (aside from the emotional reaction to dropping one of the nameplates).

Actually, the answer is far better than that. Simply merge the Malibu and Impala and label the result as a Malibu. The Impala name would go on whatever replaces this car.

  On 2/17/2013 at 8:22 PM, hyperv6 said:

It will be interesting to see why GM claims no Manual?

As for the Zeta how much of a waste will be decided by the 2016 as I see more ground being gained with a new platform. The coming Camaro will be proof of this very soon.

As for Malibu You either need to combine the Impala and Bu or the Bu and Cruze. Buick also has an issue with the Verano, Regal and Lacrosse. Some how I expect a realignment with these brands once the RWD sub Alpha is here or if it gets here. With Buick already making noise with a RWD midsize and Chevy making noise of a possible small RWD there is some major changes coming.

We need to remember the Regal and Bu are pre Chapter 11 cars and for the most part were used just because Chevy needed a new Bu ASAP and the Regal was a easy fix for Buick that had no real product or anything close.

The key is very much in what we do not know but either way GM did drop the ball here. They will be able to nurse this for two years but they had better get it right on the new clean sheet of paper.

I just hope the cost cutting is not in play here or it will send a very poor signal to the public.

The greatest key will be where the 2016 is built and I would keep an eye on the Lansing Plant.

Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai all have the two tier solution....the camry+avalon, maxima+altima....etc.

the two models together = great volume. where ford may sell 200,000 fusions and 60,000 taurus, GM may sell 150,000 malibus and 150,000 impalas.

The Impala is unique for GM because it has been able or had to sell at lower prices. Now they are trying to move up, the Malibu sales should be geared towards the value set a little more. But GM will never give up being able to make the large Impala affordable for a big set of the population.

To divert from the 4 sedan solution would be suicide. And to give up one of the two brands, Impala or Malibu just for the sake of reducing a model would be suicide. And Cruze is establishing itself as a nameplate possibly with legs. You cannot redefine the size classes of those cars.

Gm has buick because some love GM but don't want a Chevy. In order to keep the showroom doors open, you have to offer enough variety and models to give people a somewhat full lineup (trust me i know what happens to a brand and dealers when the brand does not have enough segments of the market filled). Buick needs at least 3 sedans. Older folks always will believe Buick will have a large car and Buick needs a small cheap car like the Verano to keep the doors open and traffic coming in. The Regal is still the best Buick but it needs to repackage and reprice everything and refocus the car. Maybe the next Regal is actually something different.

If anything, Chevy is lacking models and variety in its lineup. Look at Hyundai.

SS is here to give RWD fans a GM RWD choice, and to basically prop up Holden and Austrialia a bit. I really doubt GM cares whether Zeta dies off but re-doing the commodore had more to do with throwing a bone to the Aussies so they could sell other Holdens and not lose the business.

No manual is stupid, IMHO. I'm sure GM could have lived with bearing the certification cost for a manual transmission...

Styling wise, I like the car though I prefer the Impala's/Traverse's front end design to this more Malibu-inspired look...

  On 2/18/2013 at 12:36 PM, ZL-1 said:

No manual is stupid, IMHO. I'm sure GM could have lived with bearing the certification cost for a manual transmission...

Styling wise, I like the car though I prefer the Impala's/Traverse's front end design to this more Malibu-inspired look...

I too like the Impala nose better but I think they were locked in to what Holden had and just had to adapt. This is one Holden that is a Holden first and Chevy second. That will change in 2 years with the new global platform.

  On 2/18/2013 at 4:14 AM, regfootball said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 8:22 PM, hyperv6 said:

It will be interesting to see why GM claims no Manual?

As for the Zeta how much of a waste will be decided by the 2016 as I see more ground being gained with a new platform. The coming Camaro will be proof of this very soon.

As for Malibu You either need to combine the Impala and Bu or the Bu and Cruze. Buick also has an issue with the Verano, Regal and Lacrosse. Some how I expect a realignment with these brands once the RWD sub Alpha is here or if it gets here. With Buick already making noise with a RWD midsize and Chevy making noise of a possible small RWD there is some major changes coming.

We need to remember the Regal and Bu are pre Chapter 11 cars and for the most part were used just because Chevy needed a new Bu ASAP and the Regal was a easy fix for Buick that had no real product or anything close.

The key is very much in what we do not know but either way GM did drop the ball here. They will be able to nurse this for two years but they had better get it right on the new clean sheet of paper.

I just hope the cost cutting is not in play here or it will send a very poor signal to the public.

The greatest key will be where the 2016 is built and I would keep an eye on the Lansing Plant.

Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai all have the two tier solution....the camry+avalon, maxima+altima....etc.

the two models together = great volume. where ford may sell 200,000 fusions and 60,000 taurus, GM may sell 150,000 malibus and 150,000 impalas.

The Impala is unique for GM because it has been able or had to sell at lower prices. Now they are trying to move up, the Malibu sales should be geared towards the value set a little more. But GM will never give up being able to make the large Impala affordable for a big set of the population.

To divert from the 4 sedan solution would be suicide. And to give up one of the two brands, Impala or Malibu just for the sake of reducing a model would be suicide. And Cruze is establishing itself as a nameplate possibly with legs. You cannot redefine the size classes of those cars.

Gm has buick because some love GM but don't want a Chevy. In order to keep the showroom doors open, you have to offer enough variety and models to give people a somewhat full lineup (trust me i know what happens to a brand and dealers when the brand does not have enough segments of the market filled). Buick needs at least 3 sedans. Older folks always will believe Buick will have a large car and Buick needs a small cheap car like the Verano to keep the doors open and traffic coming in. The Regal is still the best Buick but it needs to repackage and reprice everything and refocus the car. Maybe the next Regal is actually something different.

If anything, Chevy is lacking models and variety in its lineup. Look at Hyundai.

SS is here to give RWD fans a GM RWD choice, and to basically prop up Holden and Austrialia a bit. I really doubt GM cares whether Zeta dies off but re-doing the commodore had more to do with throwing a bone to the Aussies so they could sell other Holdens and not lose the business.

GM is just trying to get back to where they need to be and get the base solid models to where they can support the companies. It takes time and money so once they reach that they will widen the variety more. Buick really has yet to get s full clean sheet of paper car yet as most investment is going into Chevy and Cadillac first. GM just does not have the money to fix everything at once let alone the man power. This deal is going to take at least a decade to pull off if nothing goes wrong.

The Zeta is at the end of it's life and GM just did a mild refresh on the car. Chevy needed a new stock car and to secure a slot for a larger RWD. I can see with the point of development they are at the real interest is in the new RWD in 2016. That car will more than likely be built here and be able to do more things and be more car for more buyers. Holden is really the Chevy down under anymore and each will have mostly the same line up. They are about 80% there now.

  On 2/18/2013 at 10:29 PM, hyperv6 said:

The Zeta is at the end of it's life and GM just did a mild refresh on the car. Chevy needed a new stock car and to secure a slot for a larger RWD. I can see with the point of development they are at the real interest is in the new RWD in 2016. That car will more than likely be built here and be able to do more things and be more car for more buyers. Holden is really the Chevy down under anymore and each will have mostly the same line up. They are about 80% there now.

I just hope they really are committed to a larger RWD platform and don't just use Epsilon II 'lwb' for all future 'large' models..

  On 2/17/2013 at 5:20 AM, Lamar said:

Why are we now talking about Cadillac and freakin' Mercedes in a Chevrolet thread???

Focus, people.

and now Ford?

  On 2/20/2013 at 9:08 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

  On 2/17/2013 at 5:20 AM, Lamar said:

Why are we now talking about Cadillac and freakin' Mercedes in a Chevrolet thread???

Focus, people.

and now Ford?

Good point...I wonder if Ford will ever have a RWD full sizer in NA again (or Aus for that matter, after teh current Falcon runs it's course).

Honestly, it depends on how well this Holden does down under.

  On 2/20/2013 at 5:25 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

  On 2/18/2013 at 10:29 PM, hyperv6 said:

The Zeta is at the end of it's life and GM just did a mild refresh on the car. Chevy needed a new stock car and to secure a slot for a larger RWD. I can see with the point of development they are at the real interest is in the new RWD in 2016. That car will more than likely be built here and be able to do more things and be more car for more buyers. Holden is really the Chevy down under anymore and each will have mostly the same line up. They are about 80% there now.

I just hope they really are committed to a larger RWD platform and don't just use Epsilon II 'lwb' for all future 'large' models..

GM is committed to RWD the only questions remains will the VF global replacement be a enlarges Alpha or a smaller Omega based platform. I get the feeling the Omega may be used as GM needs more use than just one Cadillac.

Ford and GM down under are no longer even a contest as the Falcon sales have really tanked. While the Holden may not still be a #1 car in the market they still sell a lot more RWD vehicles than Ford.

The economics will improve for more models here if they can build it here. No matter what market they sell the new car in the numbers will never great but as a whole globally they will be good enough. The key is to build these cars to where they can be sent to where the profits are greater vs. less with an export.

I have been dealing with several customers in Australia and have been picking their brains on cars and the market there. Keep in mind these are two Chevy owning diehard car guys but they admit the market in Australia has shifted in a great way. What once was cool is now being replaced with Asian imports. They both would not have any issue with the next car being a Chevy or a Holden just as long as it is RWD and offers a V8. They both would love to have a Camaro. One owns a 67 SS now.

There would be enough biz globally for a large rwd platform that would be the Chevy cop cars and ss, holden commodore, Opel flagship. And basis for caddy even. I would want that future platform to be awd capable.

Watching the Daytona 500...the blue & white SS pace car looks very good...they had a couple on display trackside and commented on them during the preshow..

anyone like it better in base form?

after seeing that in base form, i must admit, i do tend to understand the criticisms!

And I can see where someone might prefer the G8's chiseled flanks....

Umm, that's a Bonneville!

that commodore's ass looks pretty similar!