2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Reveal

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This C8 looks as fast as an AMG GT R for half the money, looks almost as fast to a 911 Turbo for 1/3rd the money.  That makes the Corvette a hell of a performance bargain.  But that doesn’t mean AMG, Porsche or Ferrari people will buy a Corvette, those people are not choosing a car on value.

I think the Corvette is 100% worth the price tag and even more so $60k base for a mid engine V8 car is insane.   And a lot of vehicles out there are not worth their price tag.  On value the Corvette has a really strong argument, it is Tahoe money and look at the engineering difference that goes into the two.  The Corvette is outstanding value for the performance.

But the Germans and Italians are not selling on a performance/value equation so I don’t think it will really have any effect on them.

Two things. First, you assume that those German and Italian buyers won’t look at the Vette because of its price while I’m willing to bet that more will look at and probably buy this one than you think if they get behind the wheel of it. Second, when the higher performance models come out (and they will),  the first point becomes even more relevant. If I was GM, I would market this directly against that Euro Trash (especially the Italians) without ever advertising price or value. Advertise it strictly on it’s driving and performance merits while emphasizing the new look of it. 

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it will steal even 1 Ferrari sale but I do think 911 buyers will consider it now more than ever. It is a very compelling buy over a 911 and not all 911 buyers are badge snobs. A lot just want a great driving car. 

The top goes in the back/trunk. 

The C8 can have all the performance in the world but it won’t have Porsche build quality and that is what will stop 911 buyers from leaving.  The 911 has a crazy list of customizable options too.  And the 928 may be coming back to give Porsche another option in the arsenal to attract/retain buyers.

They showed a lot of Nürburgring ring driving clips in the Corvette launch but never mentioned a lap time.  I am curious what that is.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

 

Nice find. I should have known they’d shoehorn it back there seeing as how that’s how the old 914 Targas and some others have done. One thing that may be a bummer for the Vette crowd is that because it’s mid engine now, the storage space is much more limited. Throw a top in the “trunk” and it becomes even more apparent. I know there’s storage in the front but there is no way it has the same amount of volume as the current gen with its hatch. 

4 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Two things. First, you assume that those German and Italian buyers won’t look at the Vette because of its price while I’m willing to bet that more will look at and probably buy this one than you think if they get behind the wheel of it. Second, when the higher performance models come out (and they will),  the first point becomes even more relevant. If I was GM, I would market this directly against that Euro Trash (especially the Italians) without ever advertising price or value. Advertise it strictly on it’s driving and performance merits while emphasizing the new look of it. 

I don’t think BMW lost 1 M5 sale when the Charger Hellcat came out.  Badge trumps horsepower.    I think people that always wished of having a mid-engine supercar but can’t afford a Ferrari are going to be very interested in the C8.  And the C8 is super car performance at sports car price.  Remarkable achievement, I thought the price would jump $25k on the base model and it barely moved.  I was shocked at that price.

• I question how many buyers of exotics continue to repeatedly only buy from that 1 brand. I know there are hardcore fans of each out there who do, I wonder what percentage of overall buyers. Because another brand will NEVER sway those buyers- they're 'off the table' as far as conquest sales go / an OEM is wasting their time chasing them. 
A hardcore Corvette buyer is never going to consider a ferrari, either.

• Where OEMs should / are focusing is the new or non-loyal buyer, the one who considers -not the badge- but the merits of the vehicle. That's where a brand new C8 is high on the list of contention for a WIDE variety of reasons. That's a winning formula for conquests. 

I think for a lot of people that are buying a Ferrari, it is their fourth, fifth and n-th car.

It is very possible that these people that bought a quarter million Ferrari to carefully garage it and occasionally drive it to a local golf club would be interested in the "cheap" sub 100k mid-engine Vette that they can actually not to be afraid to drive in anger.

I would wager there are people switching brands all the time. If you have 100k for a sports car, you are more than likely willing to try a bunch of different things over the years. You might Give Porsche your money once, Corvette another time, AMG and M, then back to Corvette, then another AMG.. 100k toy money is a whole different ball game than daily drivers. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it will steal even 1 Ferrari sale but I do think 911 buyers will consider it now more than ever. It is a very compelling buy over a 911 and not all 911 buyers are badge snobs. A lot just want a great driving car. 

The top goes in the back/trunk. 

It probably folds and stacks over the engine, hence no see through panel.  (I'm talking about the convertible, not the targa).

2 hours ago, frogger said:

Yeah the interior couldn't be any more Chevy pre-C7....

 

Huh?

14 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It probably folds and stacks over the engine, hence no see through panel.  

There is a video above that shows it stashing in the trunk behind the engine (like an old targa top 914).

53 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think BMW lost 1 M5 sale when the Charger Hellcat came out.  Badge trumps horsepower.    I think people that always wished of having a mid-engine supercar but can’t afford a Ferrari are going to be very interested in the C8.  And the C8 is super car performance at sports car price.  Remarkable achievement, I thought the price would jump $25k on the base model and it barely moved.  I was shocked at that price.

 

Way to compare apples to crap handling oranges. Your M5 to Hellcat comparison being even remotely similar to a Vette versus Ferrari/Porsche comparison is laughably off the base. The difference is that the Hellcat only has horsepower and not much else hence why it doesn’t merit a second look by the M5 crowd. However, a Vette that has always performed at the same level (and at times exceeded) as the Germans and Italian models will at least merit a serious look by that crowd because brand snobbery aside, great performance is great performance regardless of brand. Oh and Porsche quality is highly overrated. You also need to read up on some other C8 articles that talk about all the custom options coming to the Vette. 

54 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It probably folds and stacks over the engine, hence no see through panel.  

I posted a video, above. It does not do that. 

Also, there is a see through panel on the engine cover..or roof.. 

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I posted a video, above. It does not do that. 

Also, there is a see through panel on the engine cover..or roof.. 

You are talking about the targa top (removable roof panel) version, not the convertible.  I was talking about the convertible, which doesn't have a see through panel..(the dark green car in the pics I posted). 

7 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

You are talking about the targa top (removable roof panel) version, not the convertible.  I was talking about the convertible, which doesn't have a see through panel..(the dark green car in the pics I posted). 

OHHHHHHH my bad, sorry.

I have no clue about the convertible.. I tried to see if they had any videos on that but they don't. 

The dark green car you posted on page 2 is not a convertible. Other than the mail-slot rear window, the rearward roof structure (the large B-Pillars) are still there. There's no folding (or retractable) roof.

I'd need to see the pics of the 'convertible' and the 'targa' together, but --marketing terms/semantics aside-- that's a coupe with a removable roof panel.

No, it’s a convertible.  Look at the pics of the regular targa w/ the fixed rear window and bar where the rear hatch/engine cover is hinged.

 The convertible version probably works like a Ferrari 488 Spyder or various Lambos—the section with the headrest fairings flips backward and the top folds into a well between the seats and engine.   Pretty standard approach for convertible versions of modern mid-engined sports cars.

The Jalopnik article shows the differences in the rear structure between the coupe and convertible.   The pics below are from that article--convertible in green, coupe/targa in red.  

https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-first-look-at-the-new-corvette-convertible-1836527053

I like this bronze color also...classy

I'll be crucified for this, but I don't really care. Performance per dollar aside, I'm very disappointed. Though it looks better than I feared it would, it is still an unattractive car. I would struggle to think of another mid-engine car on sale that looks as bad. It it not cohesive, many of the details are fussy and look cheap, the rear end is visually massive, the proportions aren't great, and it doesn't identify as a Corvette to me. It really reminds me of like the generic cobbled together designs you see on racing games that don't have licensing rights like Burnout or Grand Theft Auto.

As for the interior, it actually looks quite good and of good quality. I think the strip of buttons and the wall below it was a major oversight, but hey. 

The powertrain is another area I find to be lacking, at least on paper. I thought they were going to a DOHC design here, but it's no biggie. The lack of a manual is far more concerning. I give them credit for at least pursuing a proper dual clutch trans, and being a Tremec unit, I don't doubt its quality, but no manual offering is a slight against enthusiasts. Seems an odd omission for what has traditionally been lauded as a rather raw and visceral car.

Overall, I think they transitioned to this designed with better adherence to their value quotient and marketplace positioning than expected, but I think there's some shortcoming, and I am very eager to see if any of the engineering challenges they reportedly faced during development made their way through to production. With no real experience building mid-engine cars, they certainly have some risk here. I guess time will tell. 

I bet the Z06 or ZR1 will have this black trim at the edge of the scoop in carbon fiber.   Maybe the aftermarket will put out a chrome trim piece for it. 

Pretty slick how they worked the door cutline through the scoop opening surround. 

If GM *REALLY* wants to go after the European market with the C8, then they should also pony up for a Formula 1 team and bring the US back into the series.

32 minutes ago, aurora97 said:

If GM *REALLY* wants to go after the European market with the C8, then they should also pony up for a Formula 1 team and bring the US back into the series.

Only if it is Formula E, I see no reason to waste money on Formula 1.

37 minutes ago, aurora97 said:

If GM *REALLY* wants to go after the European market with the C8, then they should also pony up for a Formula 1 team and bring the US back into the series.

There is absolutely no point in getting in F1. The costs alone are astronomical. Marques with a history in F1 get preferential treatment and budgets, the series has been in a turn down for several seasons now, and most likely GM wouldn't be successful, even if they DID throw the necessary money at it. 

Ford brought the GT back to Le Mans.  Chevrolet would need to do something different than that to compete in Europe.  Ask most people in the US who owns a Mercedes to see if they ever heard of Lewis Hamilton.  So the question has to be asked - was the C8 built just to compete in the US against foreign marques?  Or is it going to be sold as a world class super car?  If it's a world class super car, then where will it go to prove its chops?

The Corvette has been successful in sports car racing, I assume the C8 will competing also.  

44 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Only if it is Formula E, I see no reason to waste money on Formula 1.

F1 has sadly become a deeply dull snore fest of ugly cars, boring tracks, and predictable outcomes. And as a 40 yr F1 fan, it’s sad. 

1 hour ago, aurora97 said:

If GM *REALLY* wants to go after the European market with the C8, then they should also pony up for a Formula 1 team and bring the US back into the series.

No one can beat the 5 time reigning, defending F1 champion who are well on their way to a 6th consecutive title.  But I would love for Porsche or BMW or a GM/Toyota team to try.

26 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The Corvette has been successful in sports car racing, I assume the C8 will competing also.  

F1 has sadly become a deeply dull snore fest of ugly cars, boring tracks, and predictable outcomes. And as a 40 yr F1 fan, it’s sad. 

Last two races were great.  And it is only predictable because one team is so dominate, but maybe with a 4th big money team it can make it more interesting.

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No one can beat the 5 time reigning, defending F1 champion who are well on their way to a 6th consecutive title.  But I would love for Porsche or BMW or a GM/Toyota team to try.

Last two races were great.  And it is only predictable because one team is so dominate, but maybe with a 4th big money team it can make it more interesting.

Yes, the last two races were spectacular.  Perhaps what F1 needs is some new blood to keep things more dynamic.  If not the Corvette, then someone else.

But GM made the C8 a rear engine car for what?  Ford not only went to Le Mans with the GT but they also put the two year hold on any re-selling of the car to maintain the value.  Granted the C8 will outsell the Ford GT but will it outclass it in any other racing series?

I've never had any interest in F1 racing. F1 and modern era NASCAR are events about the DRIVER, and that's fine if that's what you like, without question. 

But I'm not a 'driver guy', I'm a car enthusiast. F1/NASCAR cars are very very tightly rule-bound to the point of being all the same. It's 'go-fast re-badging'.

It's like trying to make a point between WWII Jeeps being built by Ford, or Willys, or American Bantam. Inconsequential.

F1 is more about he machine, Max Verstappen is one hell of a driver and he rarely wins because he has a Honda engine.  Red Bull does well with aero and tire wear, but that car is not on par with a Mercedes.  

11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The convertible looks sharp also.  I like the looking down on from above angle. 

i'm getting a Batman and Robin vibe off that color combo

Nothing ambiguous about dat

$59,999 with no options...a DCT...a V8...and bizarre interior...

The one time GM does something "wow" again. Maybe...

Hey Acura. Hybrid AWD stuff aside, care to come up with a new $50k dealer cash for NSX? $30k last year helped...

The Vette is ugly in many combos, with nasty wheels, but alas. It's what happens when you spend so much time re-inventing the guts, and the outside turns into an ant eater. Oh well. DCT blip, blip, blip...BOOM.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

F1 is more about he machine, Max Verstappen is one hell of a driver and he rarely wins because he has a Honda engine.

They're all 90-degree 98 CI V6 single turbos, run with McLaren software, making 900-1000 HP. Cookie-cutter engines.

From 'wickedautovids' ~ 

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

They're all 90-degree 98 CI V6 single turbos, run with McLaren software, making 900-1000 HP. Cookie-cutter engines.

So double the horsepower from a 1.6 liter V6 than the Corvette gets from a 6.2 V8.  Seems very cookie cutter.   Granted I believe and F1 engine costs $5 million dollars.  Nothing cookie cutter about that price.   And if they didn't have regulations, it would be even more unfair.

F1 is 'cookie cutter' because all the engine builders build the same spec engine. Honda, Mercedes, renault, ferrari all build 1.6L V6s, all with single turbos, the same software, the same displacement. No individuality, no proprietary design, just 90-degree V6s. Price is immaterial- they could all cost $50 million, they'd all still be the same engine.

Ju-uuuust like NASCAR : all 358 CI V8, IBC, McLaren software, naturally aspirated, restrictor plates. Rule-regulated to the same thing under the hood.

'Cookie cutter' = the same thing. 

Like a package…. of cookies.

Without reading through four pages of comments what I have to say is it's another Chevy put together with the cheapest plastic bits and bobs they can find and marketed as something great. I post this as I'm having another unnecessary issue with my Chevy product. To be fair every car maker is building them with the cheapest bits and bobs they can find. However there is absolutely no excuse for the issues that I've had with 80,000 miles on the Chevy product. Oh back on topic.  Is the new Corvette cool?  I'm sure it is. I'm also fairly sure it's built like a $5 Mattel toy. 

Maybe it's built as well as my 192,xxx mile SIlverado, which just. keeps. going. Running gear all original, no rot, doors don't sag, still pulls like a freight train, tows, hauls (but has never been towed or hauled)…. if the Corvette is built like that Chevy; WOW!

You must not have gotten the tinfoil version with your 192,xxx.  My Silverado bed buckled like a tin can under the stress of strapping down my dirt bike. 

I did hear a story where a Silverado owner sneezed and the truck exploded. There've been a few stories of that happening over the last few years. But I drive with a clothespin on my nose, everyday. No worries.

Sounds like a strapping young buck, with all that stremf.  I'm curious, is there a photo of this folded bed?

The configurator has me all flummoxed.  I am a blue and green person, but the Zeus Bronze with Pewter accessory wheels is the bomb.  With the dark red interior.  And I am not a red person.

The orange pops.  The yellow is a necessary, fitting color for it.  Rapid blue with the black/blue accent interior?  I WANT IT.

Too many top shelf configurations!  The configurator site is like permanently jammed, the world is too ready for this!

I see a snarky meme over onto the Facebook calling it the "2020 Fiero".  I thought the same thing, but in the best possible way.  The starting price just blows my mind.

I'd want that green convertible w/ the tan interior.   I'll have to check out the configurator.  The bronze would look good w/ a brown interior. 

I love how many exterior and interior colors are available..   one combo I do like is Elkhart Lake Blue w/ ultra bright trident spoke wheels w/ 3LT trim and Natural Dipped (tan) interior.    The Morello red interior looks great also, would work well with the exterior in Shadow Gray.    Sweet...

The C8 is one of those cars I think will look great in person...withholding styling judgement until I can walk around one (and hopefully sit in one). 

Probably 1% of those playing with the configurator will even test drive let alone buy.

On 7/19/2019 at 9:00 PM, smk4565 said:

No one can beat the 5 time reigning, defending F1 champion who are well on their way to a 6th consecutive title.  But I would love for Porsche or BMW or a GM/Toyota team to try.

in 2018 Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari each spent about 400 million dollars on their F1 teams, next one is 310 million.  The rest are spending half of that or less.  While Hamilton is a very talented driver, if you look at team standings it is about proportional to what they are spending (except McLaren, they just s@ck).  I am sure if Toyota or GM  decides to spend 500 million on F1 team they can beat MB.

On 7/19/2019 at 6:18 PM, aurora97 said:

bring the US back into the series.

The US is in the series with HAAS. 

On 7/20/2019 at 3:16 PM, balthazar said:

F1 is 'cookie cutter' because all the engine builders build the same spec engine. Honda, Mercedes, renault, ferrari all build 1.6L V6s, all with single turbos, the same software, the same displacement. No individuality, no proprietary design, just 90-degree V6s. Price is immaterial- they could all cost $50 million, they'd all still be the same engine.

Ju-uuuust like NASCAR : all 358 CI V8, IBC, McLaren software, naturally aspirated, restrictor plates. Rule-regulated to the same thing under the hood.

'Cookie cutter' = the same thing. 

Like a package…. of cookies.

If you only look at the engines then they are all using the same car but outside of that every F1 team has drastically different bodies. NASCAR isn't near as drastic but there is also freedom to do their own thing but when the fastest design wins.. you're not going to stray too far from that. 

If you don't have regulations like that you end up with BOP(Balance of Performance) changes and it turns into a  sandbagging game in practice and qualifying. I love watching IMSA races and I watch as much as I can of them but the whole BOF, which is necessary, really sucks. 

Don't understand GM's obsession with super high belt lines and claustrophobic interiors where the center console is taking over the cockpit. Not particularly innovative. 

50 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The US is in the series with HAAS. 

Yeah, but they aren't using a US developed car or engine, or US drivers, so it's insignificant. Just a US funding source.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Yeah, but they aren't using a US developed car or engine, or US drivers, so it's insignificant. Just a US funding source.

So? If I'm not wrong, all of the smaller budget teams are buying engines and/or chassis from somebody else. They're located in the US. They're still developing everything above the chassis. 

There is also no reason a team should only look for the best available driver in a certain country. 

13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So? If I'm not wrong, all of the smaller budget teams are buying engines and/or chassis from somebody else. They're located in the US. They're still developing everything above the chassis. 

There is also no reason a team should only look for the best available driver in a certain country. 

Not interesting.  Would be way more interesting to see a team with an engine developed w a US car maker and US driver, as has been done in F1 in the past.