2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV To Start At $37,495

Based on other packages on other Chevy auto's, makes one think that this will end up at about $3,000 more for the next level up.

So were looking at about $40,495, unless Chevy wants to make sure to be able to advertise a fully loaded BOLT at under $40K, then I would say $39,995 makes sense for a fully loaded BOLT.

Base is an LT?  That means they really aren't selling "base" models of the Bolt yet, if ever.  Other Chevy cars come in L and LS trims below LT. 

Biggest hurdle GM needs to overcome is not pricing but its backwards dealer network if it wants to sell these. Went into the local Chevy dealer to look at a new Volt, bought a truck there awhile back, good people.  Salesman said they "didn't bother to learn anything about it because people who wanted them had already done their own research."  He then suggested I would be happier with a Cruze or a Malibu.

Friend of mine was dead set on buying a Volt, Chevrolet dealership was so backwards in selling the car he went out and bought a Prius instead.

I love GM's new direction, but it needs to do some work with its dealers IMHO.

That being said, the Bolt drive train in a small sedan would be a no brainier for me if they got the details right.  I am very excited about this new development from GM.

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Base is an LT?  That means they really aren't selling "base" models of the Bolt yet, if ever.  Other Chevy cars come in L and LS trims below LT. 

As I posted in the Mileage thread, they have the LT and Premier packages, so would this Premier package not be equal to the LTZ packages of other similar sized auto's?

That is my thinking on why I figure the cost would be about $3K more or so. Bolt LT & Premier packaged auto's would be equal to similar equipped LT & LTZ auto's.

As models get refreshed, LTZ goes away and is replaced by Premier.   So for example, the 2016 Sonic has an LTZ trim, but the refreshed 2017 does not and has Premier instead. 

This will be a sales flop.

4 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

This will be a sales flop.

 A base $29k LEAF with a smaller battery and no quick charge only has a range of 84 miles. The Bolt can travel 2.8 times further on a single charge.

The LEAF with the larger battery and quick charge (which still isn't Level 3 charging like the Bolt) is $35k. The Bolt can travel 2.2 times further on a single charge.

For an EV buyer, spending an extra $2,500 to get more than double the range and the ability to have level three charging (plus all of the extras the Bolt gets you like CarPlay and AndroidAuto) is a no-brainer. 

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 A base $29k LEAF with a smaller battery and no quick charge only has a range of 84 miles. The Bolt can travel 2.8 times further on a single charge.

The LEAF with the larger battery and quick charge (which still isn't Level 3 charging like the Bolt) is $35k. The Bolt can travel 2.2 times further on a single charge.

For an EV buyer, spending an extra $2,500 to get more than double the range and the ability to have level three charging (plus all of the extras the Bolt gets you like CarPlay and AndroidAuto) is a no-brainer. 

Nissan also doesn't have a Volt for their Leaf has to contend with. Also, a large portion of Leaf buyers lease. I don't foresee GM having a 13K incentive on Bolt. In reality, the Leaf will be much, much cheaper to buy. I don't think many people are going to see enough merit in the extended range to buy a car that is so at odds with the packaging and look most consumers at large are attracted to. Nothing against the car, just what I anticipate.

EV buyers and hybrid buyers, for the moment, are a different breed of car buyer.   To you and I, the Bolt may not look very attractive (though I think it's probably the best looking of models that aren't Tesla)..  But when you look at cars like the Pruis, which not only looks terrible, but also has a terrible quality interior, and drives like utter crap.... EV and Hybrid buyers obviously don't care about these traits. They care about not using gasoline.  

GM is the first to offer an EV that truly can be a family's primary car if needed, and at a relatively affordable price.  That's a pretty big deal. 

Agree with Drew on this one +1 ^^^

Tesla getting over 400K reservations in such a short period of time has gotten everyone’s attention.  But what pushed that number more, the brand label or the range?  Obviously a little of both, but I think label has more to do with it.  People don’t care if an Apple product is the fastest or has the best battery.  They simply want the label and they don’t want to read research all the particulars.  They can also brag to all their friends after making the purchase.  Same with Tesla.  Go count how many Tesla S owners currently also drive large gas sucking vehicles, or jet set around the world.  The Tesla allows them to cast an image, however false it is.  And while the Bolt appears to be an excellent product, it is lacking the brand label.  But maybe people do cling to the range number and will use that as justification for their purchase.  These are much different times, and who knows which direction the consumer will go.  In fact, not knowing is what Ford bases their electrification strategy on….letting the customer decide for them.  Their strategy is to offer gas or EV or PHEV or Hybrid, all in the same vehicle.  The business case they make is obviously lower costs. They are also dead serious about it, investing $4.5B and introducing 13 additional electrification vehicles to market by 2020. Ford also stated that they would match any range of vehicle sold, which is little more than battery sizing.  And it’s not that they could not have made a battery fit their Focus EV to raise it from 117 mile range, but it is at the end of it’s life cycle.  And there is a compelling option to undercut the Bolt price significantly, perhaps under $30K.  And while that might not be enough to steal a lot of market share, it is cheap to do with great ROI.

There is no doubt we are living in a bold new automotive world.

Watching to see how many BOLTS sell in the first 30-90 days and how it affects the Leaf, Focus EV, etc. will tend to tell how the market accepts these auto's. 

I wonder how the Ioniq will do as their battery pack is half of the bolt. I just do not see anyone wanting to spend 30K on a 100 mile EV when you can get 238 miles in a 30K CUV.

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

 

 

Tesla getting over 400K reservations in such a short period of time has gotten everyone’s attention.  But what pushed that number more, the brand label or the range?  Obviously a little of both, but I think label has more to do with it.  People don’t care if an Apple product is the fastest or has the best battery.  They simply want the label and they don’t want to read research all the particulars.  They can also brag to all their friends after making the purchase.  Same with Tesla.  Go count how many Tesla S owners currently also drive large gas sucking vehicles, or jet set around the world.  The Tesla allows them to cast an image, however false it is.  And while the Bolt appears to be an excellent product, it is lacking the brand label.  But maybe people do cling to the range number and will use that as justification for their purchase.  These are much different times, and who knows which direction the consumer will go.  In fact, not knowing is what Ford bases their electrification strategy on….letting the customer decide for them.  Their strategy is to offer gas or EV or PHEV or Hybrid, all in the same vehicle.  The business case they make is obviously lower costs. They are also dead serious about it, investing $4.5B and introducing 13 additional electrification vehicles to market by 2020. Ford also stated that they would match any range of vehicle sold, which is little more than battery sizing.  And it’s not that they could not have made a battery fit their Focus EV to raise it from 117 mile range, but it is at the end of it’s life cycle.  And there is a compelling option to undercut the Bolt price significantly, perhaps under $30K.  And while that might not be enough to steal a lot of market share, it is cheap to do with great ROI.

 

 

 

There is no doubt we are living in a bold new automotive world.

 

One of the things I keep reading is that it is easier and cheaper to engineer a car to be an EV from the start rather than try to convert an existing gas-powered platform to EV.  I don't know how true it is, but it seems to make sense.  In the Bolt and the Teslas, the battery helps to provide torsional rigidity.  On a Focus EV or Spark EV, the battery doesn't really contribute to the rigidity, thus the overall weight of the car is higher than it could be.  Also on the Bolt and Telsa, the wheels can moved forward... on an EV built off a gasoline based platform, engineers have to make things fit hardpoints that aren't as ideal for an EV.   Even the Nissan LEAF is an extremely modified variant of the older Versa platform and as such has all the baggage related to that.  A more recent example of this limitation is the Hyundai Ioniq, which was purpose built to be both a hybrid and EV.... in EV form, it too only has 110 miles of range like the Focus EV. 

So, while yes companies can convert a gas-powered platform to EV, a purpose built EV will nearly always be better.  

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Watching to see how many BOLTS sell in the first 30-90 days and how it affects the Leaf, Focus EV, etc. will tend to tell how the market accepts these auto's. 

I wonder how the Ioniq will do as their battery pack is half of the bolt. I just do not see anyone wanting to spend 30K on a 100 mile EV when you can get 238 miles in a 30K CUV.

I won't be looking at initial sales volumes as GM has already said they will be doing a slow roll-out of the car.  What I'm interested in is how long those cars sit on the lots or if they are sold before the truck even brings them in. 

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

EV buyers and hybrid buyers, for the moment, are a different breed of car buyer.   To you and I, the Bolt may not look very attractive (though I think it's probably the best looking of models that aren't Tesla)..  But when you look at cars like the Pruis, which not only looks terrible, but also has a terrible quality interior, and drives like utter crap.... EV and Hybrid buyers obviously don't care about these traits. They care about not using gasoline.  

GM is the first to offer an EV that truly can be a family's primary car if needed, and at a relatively affordable price.  That's a pretty big deal. 

Although the current Generation Prius is a gigantic leap forward in the styling and interior department.  Also, drives much better than previous generations.  Still...GM needs to work harder to market the Volt and the Bolt, methinks.

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Although the current Generation Prius is a gigantic leap forward in the styling and interior department.  Also, drives much better than previous generations.  Still...GM needs to work harder to market the Volt and the Bolt, methinks.

Different strokes... I think the newest Prius is the ugliest in a long line of ugly. 

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Watching to see how many BOLTS sell in the first 30-90 days and how it affects the Leaf, Focus EV, etc. will tend to tell how the market accepts these auto's. 

I wonder how the Ioniq will do as their battery pack is half of the bolt. I just do not see anyone wanting to spend 30K on a 100 mile EV when you can get 238 miles in a 30K CUV.

Pretty much this....the Bolt is an order of magnitude better than the Leaf, which has horrible crash test ratings, a short range, battery issues, and looks like a vacuum cleaner on wheels.

Domestics are very good at taking an idea put forth by imports and taking it forward for the win.  Remember the Genesis 4 cyl Turbo coupe and how it was going to be the car of the century according to all of the automotive writers? In the mean time, Mustang has the ecoboost and Camaro has a Turbo 4.  Meanwhile, the Genesis coupe is DOA.

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Different strokes... I think the newest Prius is the ugliest in a long line of ugly. 

I actually kind of like it.  as one of my friends put it....something like a bunch of 1960's Citroen designers woudl do given LSD and a room full of Pokemon....in a good sort of way.

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

One of the things I keep reading is that it is easier and cheaper to engineer a car to be an EV from the start rather than try to convert an existing gas-powered platform to EV.  I don't know how true it is, but it seems to make sense.  In the Bolt and the Teslas, the battery helps to provide torsional rigidity.  On a Focus EV or Spark EV, the battery doesn't really contribute to the rigidity, thus the overall weight of the car is higher than it could be.  Also on the Bolt and Telsa, the wheels can moved forward... on an EV built off a gasoline based platform, engineers have to make things fit hardpoints that aren't as ideal for an EV.   Even the Nissan LEAF is an extremely modified variant of the older Versa platform and as such has all the baggage related to that.  A more recent example of this limitation is the Hyundai Ioniq, which was purpose built to be both a hybrid and EV.... in EV form, it too only has 110 miles of range like the Focus EV. 

So, while yes companies can convert a gas-powered platform to EV, a purpose built EV will nearly always be better.  

I won't be looking at initial sales volumes as GM has already said they will be doing a slow roll-out of the car.  What I'm interested in is how long those cars sit on the lots or if they are sold before the truck even brings them in. 

One can hope they sell.  I think given proper marketing, that can happen.  I also think being two or three years old with few issues will help their cause.  The VW scandal has left a lot of "green car" buyers high and dry, this car is coming out at a good time....

20 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I actually kind of like it.  as one of my friends put it....something like a bunch of 1960's Citroen designers woudl do given LSD and a room full of Pokemon....in a good sort of way.

That is at once the most accurate and horrifying description of the car I have heard to date. I may be stealing it if/when I review one.

Drew,

If one were to just compare engineering and manufacturing costs for a Focus BEV to a Bolt, there would surely be a minor cost delta.  Focus platform costs however are spread out huge, where GM would have to carry and engineer and build an exclusive small car to fill the gas customer. So it’s the total costs that have to be tallied, obviously.

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

That is at once the accurate and horrifying description of the car I have heard to date. I may be stealing it if/when I review one.

You are more than welcome to do so. I did get 76 MPG tooling around Columbus for an evening in said friends Prius. Fuelly has them at about a 55 MPG average, vs about 44-48 for the previous car.

Still I am thinking of something performance oriented when I turn in the Jetta TDI. BRZ/FRS or the like.

@A Horse With No Name

QUOTE of the DAY!

"Prius - Something a bunch of 1960's Citroen designers would do given LSD and a room full of Pokemon....In a good sort of way!"

I think there are a lot assumptions about buyers of both the Bolt and Tesla. That is the biggest hinderance as to understanding why or why not said car succeeds. If someone owns an expensive CUV/SUV and a Tesla, that doesn't mean anything other than the fact that one is for highway traveling while the other is perfectly suited to city and short range highway drives. Unless someone here has actually talked to these particular Tesla owners, it's pretty silly to assume anything else than what it's intended purpose is. 

13 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

 

 

Drew,

 

If one were to just compare engineering and manufacturing costs for a Focus BEV to a Bolt, there would surely be a minor cost delta.  Focus platform costs however are spread out huge, where GM would have to carry and engineer and build an exclusive small car to fill the gas customer. So it’s the total costs that have to be tallied, obviously.

 

Oh, I'm sure that the Focus EV cost less to develop than the Bolt... and its costs are spread over a broader sales base as well.

However, I don't think Ford would have been able to produce a car with the room and range the Bolt has by using a gasoline powered platform. One only has to look at where the battery is mounted in the Focus EV for that.  It partially is in the trunk area and adds nothing to the platform strength, so that adds weight.   Because the battery can't be mounted under the Focus, in order to get a 238 mile range, Ford would have needed to stuff the doors and seats with batteries.... and then it becomes a race with weight... trying to get enough batteries in there to increase range while fighting against weight creep due to the increased number of batteries. 

The Bolt is a lot more spacious inside than other cars with that exterior size.

4 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

 

 

Drew,

 

If one were to just compare engineering and manufacturing costs for a Focus BEV to a Bolt, there would surely be a minor cost delta.  Focus platform costs however are spread out huge, where GM would have to carry and engineer and build an exclusive small car to fill the gas customer. So it’s the total costs that have to be tallied, obviously.

 

The value is in having an established EV market and proven technology as a move to alternate proportion systems foes forward. Even though PC type computers are easy to use, something Apple established when they first came out....Apple still has a huge fanatical following.  IF GM plays this right....IF....they will have a huge loyal following for electrics.

53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Oh, I'm sure that the Focus EV cost less to develop than the Bolt... and its costs are spread over a broader sales base as well.

However, I don't think Ford would have been able to produce a car with the room and range the Bolt has by using a gasoline powered platform. One only has to look at where the battery is mounted in the Focus EV for that.  It partially is in the trunk area and adds nothing to the platform strength, so that adds weight.   Because the battery can't be mounted under the Focus, in order to get a 238 mile range, Ford would have needed to stuff the doors and seats with batteries.... and then it becomes a race with weight... trying to get enough batteries in there to increase range while fighting against weight creep due to the increased number of batteries. 

The Bolt is a lot more spacious inside than other cars with that exterior size.

 

Space and packaging is an entirely different subject, and yes, it certainly favors the Bolt.

55 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The value is in having an established EV market and proven technology as a move to alternate proportion systems foes forward. Even though PC type computers are easy to use, something Apple established when they first came out....Apple still has a huge fanatical following.  IF GM plays this right....IF....they will have a huge loyal following for electrics.

It's a bigger risk for GM for sure, but Ford must feel that at this time, the added reward is not worth the risk.  It's not like they have not done pretty well with electrification to this point, for years being second to only Toyota.

Space and packaging are key to the rest of the vehicle's abilities.  In the Bolt, they moved the front wheels further forward than would normally be possible on a front wheel drive car.  By packaging a flat battery carried under the car instead of in the trunk and former gas tank location, that certainly opens up more space.  By doing this, GM was able to make the Bolt larger inside than would normally be possible with a gas powered car.  That cuts down on weight and increases range.

I think where we are getting off track is this;  I am saying that it is easier to make a purpose built EV of this size interior go 238 miles on a charge than it is to convert an existing gasoline platform.... if it's possible at all to do at all.  There have been a number of tries, and as of yet, not one has broken 110 mile EPA range. (Spark EV, Focus EV, Fiat 500e, Kia Soul EV, Hyundai Ioniq, Mercedes B-Class ED, Nissan LEAF, Smart ED, VW E-Golf).   The only vehicles to break the 110 mile EPA range are purpose built EVs like the Bolt and Teslas.  (it would be best for all involved, including Mitsubishi, if we just ignore Mitsubishi for now).

Could Ford or any of these manufacturers build a version of a gas car that goes 238 miles?  Probably, but it would also mean converting a sedan into a 2-seater and filling the second row with batteries.

Packaging and yes, optimized benefits, favor any vehicle that is purpose built. No debate there for sure.  But, they have to view it from a business POV also, and consider ROI.  To a slightly extreme example, the customer would benefit if every single vehicle were purpose built and completely optimized.  But cost and complexity sets in, which impacts the business and they must balance attributes best they can.  Every single Ford hybrid made until now has basically applied Atikinson cycle cam timing to existing engines for more efficiency.  Very little optimization.  Typical of the industry, at this point in time.  But every future hybrid and PHEV engine is very much optimized and will yield far more efficiency.  Even transmissions are being revised.  That's just powertrain.  They can obviously prepare in advance many other systems to better jive with electrification.  These engineered preparations go a long way toward closing the purpose built optimization gap.  That also helps to lower costs and affordability too.  Ford appears to be very committed suddenly.  Not to make this all about Ford, and I am sure many automakers are doing similar, as an example I guess.  

Ford has also devoted their entire old powertrain engineering building (the sister building next door to the museum) to purely electrification, and there is no department difference between EV and PHEV and hybrid groups.  It's one big cohesive band that works together.  All this simply tells me that electrification will proliferate across the industry at a huge rate in the coming years.

That sounds great... and yes, I'm sure every manufacturer is working towards this extensively now. 

In the case of the Bolt, I won't be surprised if/when GM announces other variants in order to improve the ROI.  Having a single car on a platform is generally not a good idea financially unless you can sell a huge number of copies of it. So I really expect more versions of the Bolt if GM is going to have financial success with it. 

Why is there a vaporware vs. actual product argument anyway? Sorry but I just don't get it. 

A unique EV platform makes the most sense, trying to convert a gas engine platform to EV doesn't work.  The Bolt is so small though, there isn't really much else they can build off it, a subcompact sedan won't sell, and they already have a Trax, unless they want a Traxx EV that looks like a Traxx but is a Bolt underneath.  

Cadillac should develop an EV car platform to replace Alpha, they could build the ATS and CTS replacements and XT3, XT5 all off that one EV platform.  They could put 4 EV Cadillacs out around 2020, let a 2nd generation of gas powered Alphas live on until like 2024 until it is time to kill it off.   At Cadillac's price point you don't need to worry about value shoppers and can focus on performance and technology.

You guys can believe what you want to believe, but the fact of the matter is I'm basing my opinion off actual sales experience. You're more than welcome to dispute that based on your  own biases, but that doesn't mean you're right. The Tesla offers staggering performance and sleek looks. The i3 offers cutting-edge tech and quirkiness. The Prius offers unmatched reliability and cost of ownership. The Leaf is crazy cheap right now, and offers more than enough EV range for the average urban commuter. Time will tell, but I'm rather skeptical that anyone in the market for an EV is going to see this thing as a whole as having a notable edge over competitors. 

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

A unique EV platform makes the most sense, trying to convert a gas engine platform to EV doesn't work.  The Bolt is so small though, there isn't really much else they can build off it, a subcompact sedan won't sell, and they already have a Trax, unless they want a Traxx EV that looks like a Traxx but is a Bolt underneath.  

Cadillac should develop an EV car platform to replace Alpha, they could build the ATS and CTS replacements and XT3, XT5 all off that one EV platform.  They could put 4 EV Cadillacs out around 2020, let a 2nd generation of gas powered Alphas live on until like 2024 until it is time to kill it off.   At Cadillac's price point you don't need to worry about value shoppers and can focus on performance and technology.

The platform is apparently extremely flexible. Stretch it into any shape you want.... make it longer and add battery capacity.... put another motor in the rear, raise the ride height, and so on. 

4 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

You guys can believe what you want to believe, but the fact of the matter is I'm basing my opinion off actual sales experience. You're more than welcome to dispute that based on your  own biases, but that doesn't mean you're right. The Tesla offers staggering performance and sleek looks. The i3 offers cutting-edge tech and quirkiness. The Prius offers unmatched reliability and cost of ownership. The Leaf is crazy cheap right now, and offers more than enough EV range for the average urban commuter. Time will tell, but I'm rather skeptical that anyone in the market for an EV is going to see this thing as a whole as having a notable edge over competitors. 

Is there a reason why you assume you're the only salesman in the room?

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Is there a reason why you assume you're the only salesman in the room?

I was away in the middle of my reply for a while. Your post wasn't present when I was responding.

19 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I was away in the middle of my reply for a while. Your post wasn't present when I was responding.

 

Okay but that doesn't really answer my question. You are right to use your sales experience as a barometer here but others here may also have similar sales experience that contradict your assertions. Just seems a little presumptuous to say it like you are the only one here who can properly vouch for the success or failure of a car. Maybe I'm reading you wrong here but that's just the impression that I get. 

3 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Space and packaging is an entirely different subject, and yes, it certainly favors the Bolt.

It's a bigger risk for GM for sure, but Ford must feel that at this time, the added reward is not worth the risk.  It's not like they have not done pretty well with electrification to this point, for years being second to only Toyota.

Ford is behaving very rationally, not something I can say about every car maker.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The platform is apparently extremely flexible. Stretch it into any shape you want.... make it longer and add battery capacity.... put another motor in the rear, raise the ride height, and so on. 

Again, I would love it as a sedan and adore it as a sport compact, I am very interested in seeing what itineration this brings forward in the future.

Interesting.

I like the tech specs and all, and the EPA certified range, but little else.

16 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That sounds great... and yes, I'm sure every manufacturer is working towards this extensively now. 

In the case of the Bolt, I won't be surprised if/when GM announces other variants in order to improve the ROI.  Having a single car on a platform is generally not a good idea financially unless you can sell a huge number of copies of it. So I really expect more versions of the Bolt if GM is going to have financial success with it. 

I agree that the technology needs to be spread across the product lines.

I think GM would have a Massive Hit on their hands to make a Zolt. An EV Mini Pickup on this that would be well loved in the City.

My piss Poor photoshop but I think a mini EV Pickup would be a big hit. 500 to 1000lbs is all it needs to haul in the bed.

Awesome Chevy Life web site about EV's and the Bolt.

Found under the Maintenance section the following:

You will need to rotate your tires every 7,500 miles. 
You should replace the cabin air filter every 22,500 miles.

Don't forget to get your brakes, hoses and fluid levels checked periodically.

Check out the cool Q&A about the BOLT here:

http://www.chevyevlife.com/ 

Click the pink box for checking charging locations in your area. Pretty amazing to see what Level 1, 2, or 3 Quick chargers are around.

17 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

You guys can believe what you want to believe, but the fact of the matter is I'm basing my opinion off actual sales experience. You're more than welcome to dispute that based on your  own biases, but that doesn't mean you're right. The Tesla offers staggering performance and sleek looks. The i3 offers cutting-edge tech and quirkiness. The Prius offers unmatched reliability and cost of ownership. The Leaf is crazy cheap right now, and offers more than enough EV range for the average urban commuter. Time will tell, but I'm rather skeptical that anyone in the market for an EV is going to see this thing as a whole as having a notable edge over competitors. 

I think the S is a very sleek and powerful $100K car, and the i3 is a quirky $43K EV.

But there is nothing outstanding about the very bland looking Prius, other than sales.  Ford Fusion Hybrid is just reliable, and actually fun to drive.  And I bet it would easily win a beauty contest over the Prius.  But the Leaf does nothing special, certainly not sales.

34 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

I think the S is a very sleek and powerful $100K car, and the i3 is a quirky $43K EV.

But there is nothing outstanding about the very bland looking Prius, other than sales.  Ford Fusion Hybrid is just reliable, and actually fun to drive.  And I bet it would easily win a beauty contest over the Prius.  But the Leaf does nothing special, certainly not sales.

The LEAF is the best selling EV to date with over a million units worldwide.  Tesla is a distant second. 

I haven't driven a Fusion hybrid since the last bodystyle (Only a current MKZ Hybrid), but even that one was excellent enough for us to consider a Milan Hybrid at the time.  The current Fusion is in the top 5 of the mid-sizers in handling, I"m not sure I'd call any hybrid "fun" because their acceleration is geared more towards ECO, but the Fusion's handling shouldn't be an issue... certainly better than the awful Pruis.

The nice thing about the Ford hybrid is that it just goes about its business without any fuss about being a hybrid.

With pricing, colors and packages, Chevrolet has now moved the BOLT into their normal auto listing section on the web page. 

I wonder how long before they give you a build it option so we can play with the packages and options and finally price out a BOLT?

The new Prius is nowhere near awful to drive. You can hate it's looks all you want, you can hate Toyota all you want, but the new car is fine to drive.

Just now, Frisky Dingo said:

The new Prius is nowhere near awful to drive. You can hate it's looks all you want, you can hate Toyota all you want, but the new car is fine to drive.

I'll try it out next week. 

39 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

The new Prius is nowhere near awful to drive. You can hate it's looks all you want, you can hate Toyota all you want, but the new car is fine to drive.

I have heard from a few coworkers who have new Priuses that they car is more engaging than past generations, but with that said, there is the low seating position of the car and the serious lack of headroom and over all body space for larger people.

Be interesting to see what Drew thinks of it when he test drives a new Prius.

Just now, dfelt said:

I have heard from a few coworkers who have new Priuses that they car is more engaging than past generations, but with that said, there is the low seating position of the car and the serious lack of headroom and over all body space for larger people.

Be interesting to see what Drew thinks of it when he test drives a new Prius.

I think the car is pretty damn roomy myself. But I'm not fat.

39 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

The new Prius is nowhere near awful to drive. You can hate it's looks all you want, you can hate Toyota all you want, but the new car is fine to drive.

Fun to drive is a subjective thing, is it not?

That said, I had a Prius rental last spring. It was brand new with about 900 miles. I was quite interested at first to log a few miles on one, but was quickly bored.  Probably the worst handling car since I drove a Corolla.  Fun factor was off the charts low.  

2 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I think the car is pretty damn roomy myself. But I'm not fat.

LOL, I do not consider my self Obese, but I know I could afford to loose 10-15 pounds. For me, at 6'6" tall and muscular since I love to work out, the hips, legs, shoulders are a killer in the Prius for me.

15 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I have heard from a few coworkers who have new Priuses that they car is more engaging than past generations, but with that said, there is the low seating position of the car and the serious lack of headroom and over all body space for larger people.

Be interesting to see what Drew thinks of it when he test drives a new Prius.

Agreed.  I drove one and quite liked it.

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

LOL, I do not consider my self Obese, but I know I could afford to loose 10-15 pounds. For me, at 6'6" tall and muscular since I love to work out, the hips, legs, shoulders are a killer in the Prius for me.

The salesman who showed my wife and I the Prius at the local Toyota Store was 6'11 1/2.  He looked very, very uncomfortable in the front seat next to my wife, who is all of 5'3 or 5'4.

14 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Fun to drive is a subjective thing, is it not?

That said, I had a Prius rental last spring. It was brand new with about 900 miles. I was quite interested at first to log a few miles on one, but was quickly bored.  Probably the worst handling car since I drove a Corolla.  Fun factor was off the charts low.  

I didn't say fun. I said 'fine'. As in competent. Competitive to it's peers. 

Anyone who'd say the new Prius is awful to drive is just full of $h!.