2016 Chevrolet Malibu To Start At $22,500, Arriving At Dealers In A Few Weeks

Agressive pricing

is power seat available on standalone on LS?

I think its std on Fusion SE.......

  On 9/10/2015 at 9:24 PM, regfootball said:

is power seat available on standalone on LS?

 

I think its std on Fusion SE.......

Don't know. We'll have the answer soon.

This should really start the war for the Middle class mid size sedans!

I just wish they did a N/A engine choice.....both choices are turbos  

I just wish we had a N/A engine choice instead of only turbo

I predict this car is still going to continue with poor sales. 

I really like the styling. I don't like how they are lowering power levels, though. 

I like the styling too. Looks great. 

300lbs lighter... so about 3,100-3,200 lbs? That's fairly impressive.

  On 9/11/2015 at 2:41 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I predict this car is still going to continue with poor sales. 

 

I really like the styling. I don't like how they are lowering power levels, though. 

agree on the power issue......more specifically the base engine.  the 2.0 is flat out too expensive.  I don't care if it weighs less.  The specs should be about 5-10% more power and torque.

how this will sell?

ultimately it has all to do with cheap leases if they want in roads in this segment.  I know 2 people that keep rolling into new altima leases all the time.  They like the car enough that its a no decision to just get a new one when its time because its so cheap.

if you want to compete you have to have the 999 down 219 a month leases.  FOR A CAR WITH A FEW OPTIONS.

Chevy leases the Cruze pretty well and i know of one person who got a cruze who never would have otherwise if it weren't for the cheap lease.

honda, toyota, nissan, hyundai, they make it SO EASY to get their models on the road in this segment.

GM almost never does that.

  On 9/11/2015 at 2:41 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I predict this car is still going to continue with poor sales. 

 

I really like the styling. I don't like how they are lowering power levels, though. 

The 1.5T is geared towards the fuel economy crowd anyway, and should deliver better low end torque.  Overall, I bet it is about a wash compared to the 2.5 in driving feel, but with much better fuel economy. 

So food for thought:

The 2016 CTS 2.0T AWD with the new 8-speed automatic was just tested by C&D. It weighed 3900 lbs (top trim with AWD) and still sprinted to 60 in a surprising 5.8 sec while running a 14.5 1/4 mile. The new Malibu turbo is expected to weigh around 3500 lbs, carries the same engine at a slightly lower tune (250 hp), and uses an 8-speed transaxle based on the CTS trans.

Are we going to see a sub-6 second Malibu from factory?

C/d tested the old turbo Mali at 5.9 IIRC.

3900 pound ATS? Wth! For a car with no room? And It only gets 25mpg or 24, combined.

Mali at 3200 pounds is a great engineering achievement and closer to rivals like passat and Altima. Hopefully it hasn't lost the solid feel GM cars have, heavier doors, solid thunks, non flexy. sheet metal........

Big key for me with the 2.0 even if it loses power, is it refined.

  On 9/11/2015 at 5:49 PM, regfootball said:

C/d tested the old turbo Mali at 5.9 IIRC.

3900 pound ATS? Wth! For a car with no room? And It only gets 25mpg or 24, combined.

Mali at 3200 pounds is a great engineering achievement and closer to rivals like passat and Altima. Hopefully it hasn't lost the solid feel GM cars have, heavier doors, solid thunks, non flexy. sheet metal........

Big key for me with the 2.0 even if it loses power, is it refined.

C/D tested the Malibu turbo twice, before and after the refresh. Best run was 6.2 sec to 60 and 14.8 @ 97 mph. Motor Trend got roughly the same, the Regal GS 2.0T was a tick faster.

I said CTS, not ATS.

  On 9/11/2015 at 2:41 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I predict this car is still going to continue with poor sales. 

 

I really like the styling. I don't like how they are lowering power levels, though. 

You have to consider that it is also much lighter than the outgoing model (by 200lbs. if I'm not mistaken) so I don't think the power "loss" will be a big deal at all. As far as sales, they will mostly certainly pick up. How much, is anyone's guess.

They have to price aggressive, the Malibu is sort of an after thought in this segment.  I think Chevy marketing right now is about as weak as I can remember in my life time.  The current crop of ads with focus groups picking what brand had the most awards or what car won a JD Power award are just hopelessly boring.  They don't spark any emotion and make the product seem desirable.  The Heartbeat of America has flat lined.

  On 9/11/2015 at 6:07 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

 

  On 9/11/2015 at 5:49 PM, regfootball said:

C/d tested the old turbo Mali at 5.9 IIRC.

3900 pound ATS? Wth! For a car with no room? And It only gets 25mpg or 24, combined.

Mali at 3200 pounds is a great engineering achievement and closer to rivals like passat and Altima. Hopefully it hasn't lost the solid feel GM cars have, heavier doors, solid thunks, non flexy. sheet metal........

Big key for me with the 2.0 even if it loses power, is it refined.

 

C/D tested the Malibu turbo twice, before and after the refresh. Best run was 6.2 sec to 60 and 14.8 @ 97 mph. Motor Trend got roughly the same, the Regal GS 2.0T was a tick faster.

 

I said CTS, not ATS.

 

yup, i had some dyslexia there.....

  On 9/11/2015 at 8:26 PM, smk4565 said:

They have to price aggressive, the Malibu is sort of an after thought in this segment.  I think Chevy marketing right now is about as weak as I can remember in my life time.  The current crop of ads with focus groups picking what brand had the most awards or what car won a JD Power award are just hopelessly boring.  They don't spark any emotion and make the product seem desirable.  The Heartbeat of America has flat lined.

I kind of think GM should have abandoned the Malibu nameplate for this new midsizer. From 1997-2007, the Malibu was bad. It was ugly and it was cheap. The 2008 redesign breathed life back into the model and started winning people over (including myself), but the subsequent 2013 generation was a failure. You can't follow a comeback with an immediate failure. The damage is an unnecessary hurdle.

I agree that GM's advertising sucks. The only successful marketing campaign of late is the dumb-yet-effective "That's not a Buick" advertising. And that's fact, not opinion, I don't like the commercials. GMC's "Precision" is meh, but Cadillac and Chevrolet have GOT to get their sh*t together.

  On 9/11/2015 at 8:26 PM, smk4565 said:

They have to price aggressive, the Malibu is sort of an after thought in this segment.  I think Chevy marketing right now is about as weak as I can remember in my life time.  The current crop of ads with focus groups picking what brand had the most awards or what car won a JD Power award are just hopelessly boring.  They don't spark any emotion and make the product seem desirable.  The Heartbeat of America has flat lined.

YUP.. Sales up 3% for the year overall and 7% Retail. Sounds like a dead brand to me.

  On 9/11/2015 at 9:38 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

 

  On 9/11/2015 at 8:26 PM, smk4565 said:

They have to price aggressive, the Malibu is sort of an after thought in this segment.  I think Chevy marketing right now is about as weak as I can remember in my life time.  The current crop of ads with focus groups picking what brand had the most awards or what car won a JD Power award are just hopelessly boring.  They don't spark any emotion and make the product seem desirable.  The Heartbeat of America has flat lined.

 

I kind of think GM should have abandoned the Malibu nameplate for this new midsizer. From 1997-2007, the Malibu was bad. It was ugly and it was cheap. The 2008 redesign breathed life back into the model and started winning people over (including myself), but the subsequent 2013 generation was a failure. You can't follow a comeback with an immediate failure. The damage is an unnecessary hurdle.

Not true. The name isn't damaged one bit in the eyes of people who bought it... or people who didn't. The people who didn't buy just bought something else that may have fit their needs. The only people who see it as damaged are those who read magazine reviews and suddenly believed that they were in desperate need to carry around a few fat kids in the back.

  On 9/11/2015 at 2:41 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I don't like how they are lowering power levels, though. 

 

 

  On 9/11/2015 at 9:44 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

  On 9/11/2015 at 9:38 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

 

  On 9/11/2015 at 8:26 PM, smk4565 said:

They have to price aggressive, the Malibu is sort of an after thought in this segment.  I think Chevy marketing right now is about as weak as I can remember in my life time.  The current crop of ads with focus groups picking what brand had the most awards or what car won a JD Power award are just hopelessly boring.  They don't spark any emotion and make the product seem desirable.  The Heartbeat of America has flat lined.

 

I kind of think GM should have abandoned the Malibu nameplate for this new midsizer. From 1997-2007, the Malibu was bad. It was ugly and it was cheap. The 2008 redesign breathed life back into the model and started winning people over (including myself), but the subsequent 2013 generation was a failure. You can't follow a comeback with an immediate failure. The damage is an unnecessary hurdle.

 

 

Not true. The name isn't damaged one bit in the eyes of people who bought it... or people who didn't. The people who didn't buy just bought something else that may have fit their needs. The only people who see it as damaged are those who read magazine reviews and suddenly believed that they were in desperate need to carry around a few fat kids in the back.

 

Bad press is bad press. People hear Honda Accord or (sigh) Toyota Camry and they think of quality, reliable cars--regardless of reality. Most people either have no opinion of the Chevy Malibu or think of the turd from the 90s and early 00s because their 60 year old Aunt owned a beige one.

Ford has had major success with the Fusion nameplate by wiping the slate clean. GM could have done the same or pulled something else from their portfolio to generate more buzz about their revitalized midsize car.

I think the Malibu doesn't have anywhere near the reputation of Accord or Camry, but at the same time I wouldn't dump the name.  I would however make some ads that make the Malibu look cool, or fun to own.  The last good Chevy car ad I saw was the Impala launch ads and they had Sinatra music and they were playing to the 50 and 60 something segment, but it made the Impala look like a desirable car, not just a rental sedan which it had been.

When it comes to names not a thing is wrong here that a well build, compelling styled well priced car could not over come.

To be honest there were few name plates that were not damaged at GM but the Malibu has been one that while it was on some weak models for a while it was not one of the worst cars they offered.

The first step it to build better build better looking cars. We have that now. Next to price them well so people will be tempted to get their butts behind the wheels to find out they are as good as reviews and GM say they are. Finally you earn the trust of the buyers and add to your rep with word of mouth praise and future purchases.

Honda was not created on the little S*$T box we first saw and it took a decade to really make headway. Same with Toyota and even BMW. At least GM is not starting with no fan base so that will help cut the time.

This car priced right will make the top three in the segment. It will make money and only contribute to the reputation of GM and Chevy as the present Cruze and Nox already have and as the C7 and Camaro will be. Even the Impala has a good thing going now but could use better marketing.

I was born in 1973...

So Malibu for me is a sucky nameplate...

This is my first memory of a Malibu...

and although I always thought they looked cool...

THIS is the model I will ALWAYS associate Malibu with...

Ugly and cheap. This was a cheap and smaller knock-off of bigger brother Caprice/Bel Air/Impala...

The square boxy look of the B-Body looked handsome and chic...this looked clumsy.

and then no more Malibu...I learned about the Chevelle/Malibu of mid 1960s muscle car fame and was quite excited by the nameplate...only to be disappointed again with the arrival of this mess...

Only to have a badge engineered Cutlass  spoil it some more for me for that platform and the name Malibu...because I never once believed this was an "Oldsmobile Cutlass"...

Plus...knowing that the Alero/Grand Am was on that same but improved platform and were much much better cars...the Malibu name plate just continued to leave me with a sour taste in my mouth...

And then this one comes along and its like WTF???!!!

But the last three iterations are not bad...but they arent great...albeit a helluva lot better than every single Malibu since 1978...

This new one promises to be a looker and a better car all around including quality, fit and finish and  performance in handling, acceleration and driving enthusiasm...

So for me...although the nameplate is just crap in my eyes...I dont see a negative if GM/Chevy wants to use it...its a good nameplate...it fits Chevrolet...(and not because its a crappy nameplate therfore Chevrolet is crappy...if that is what you folk understood...its a good nameplate because Malibu is a nice honest name about a nice honest place that befits a nice honest car company...)

442 the 78 and 80's models are still very popular. The rest of them back to 73 are pretty much forgotten. The later models were so plain most forget them and the 73-77 models rusted out like most 70's cars and with the lack of resto parts are mostly forgotten.

Most people today remember the 60's- 72 models. These cars still are in great numbers and are still of great value. Even the non SS models trade for high prices today.

The folks who have a bug in their shorts really just have no concept that the old name is not damaged nor it is all that easy to start over with a new name.

As we have seen so often the car  makes the name not the name makes the car. Make the car compelling in design, value and quality and it will sell.

If they can bring the Hyundai Sonata from what it was in 1987 to what it is today any name could be redeemed. The Malibu was never damaged as much as the original Hyundai nor was Chevy. Watch as this car becomes a class leader and a profit leader in this segment.

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:31 PM, hyperv6 said:

442 the 78 and 80's models are still very popular. The rest of them back to 73 are pretty much forgotten. The later models were so plain most forget them and the 73-77 models rusted out like most 70's cars and with the lack of resto parts are mostly forgotten.

 

Most people today remember the 60's- 72 models. These cars still are in great numbers and are still of great value. Even the non SS models trade for high prices today.

 

The folks who have a bug in their shorts really just have no concept that the old name is not damaged nor it is all that easy to start over with a new name.

 

As we have seen so often the car  makes the name not the name makes the car. Make the car compelling in design, value and quality and it will sell.

 

If they can bring the Hyundai Sonata from what it was in 1987 to what it is today any name could be redeemed. The Malibu was never damaged as much as the original Hyundai nor was Chevy. Watch as this car becomes a class leader and a profit leader in this segment.

Ill agree that the name Malibu is NOT damaged goods...

The late 1990s-mid 2000s Malibus are not bad vehicles, ugly exterior and cheap materials inside aside, they were not disaster vehicles like the Hyundai Sonata you mentioned...and quite honestly...this model Malibu

is an honestly handsome car that quickly changed the minds of many wiith its chic styling and very nicely appointed interior as opposed the generation before it...

THAT Malibu restored any bad perceptions the Malibu name plate may have had on a dime...and the momentum Chevy has in this segment is because of that Malibu's effort...

The last 2 generations...there really is NOTHING bad to talk about...only that the rear seating area is not fit for family haulin' duties...the raison d'etre of this vehicle in this segment...but the Equinox takes care of that...and the Chevy Trax...and low and behold...all cars in the segment are giving way to CUVs anyway..

This next generation Malibu...in my opinion, will soldier on and be a successful hit along the same lines as the 2008-2012 model...but it may not garner any sales topping charts NOT because the CamCord  are what  people are choosing over the Malibu...but because not only will  people  be choosing the next generation Equinox over the  Malibu...but the next generation Equinox will be the people's choice over a CRV and RAV 4...

In other words.. the midsized CUV will be the next bread and butter midsized family haulin' segment battleground and .the next generation Equinox is gonna be that vehicle to put Chevy on top of the  sales chart...

I own a 2LT 2008 V6 and it is still a great car. Today they are very popular on the used car market and sold enough to be around for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The 08 really changed the tone for Malibu and the present model is not bad considering it was a carry over from the bail out. The need to use the short platform hurt the back seat room but that will soon be corrected. It was a case GM had to use what they had and had little time to do it. But they knew what they had coming here so it was not a panic situation.

Either way it did not harm even if it was not the leading car in the segment and it still made money.

The Malibu as it currently exists is a final vestige of the Old GM. It was designed during this time and it's final development was frozen during '08.

This new one will be a much better indicator of what GM is capable of. It'll be fine.

I probably would have made all wheel drive available.   This segment is the most competitive of any segment to begin with.  There are about 10 entries in it.  Then you have the shift to SUVs, where a lot of people are trading in a mid-size sedan or cross shopping the mid-size sedan with a C-segment crossover.   So the CR-V, Rav4, Escape, etc all offer 5 seats, similar equipment, more cargo space, all wheel drive and similar fuel economy to a Fusion, Camry or Malibu.  If the Malibu had awd, maybe you prevent some people from going to the crossover because of the perceived safety that awd provides.

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

It's like I've been arguing in the thread about pushrods.  It's all about low end torque.  This new 1.5T has as much torque at 2,000 rpm as the current 2.5 produces at 4,400 rpm.    As a base engine, it will do fine. 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:15 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

 

It's like I've been arguing in the thread about pushrods.  It's all about low end torque.  This new 1.5T has as much torque at 2,000 rpm as the current 2.5 produces at 4,400 rpm.    As a base engine, it will do fine.

Drew it is clear he has no clue or even has driven one of the Eco DI Turbo engines as it has more low end Torque than some recent V8 models and a torque curve flatter than the Bonneville.

It is post like this that lose credibility in the argument and he finishes himself off.

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:09 PM, El Kabong said:

The Malibu as it currently exists is a final vestige of the Old GM. It was designed during this time and it's final development was frozen during '08.

This new one will be a much better indicator of what GM is capable of. It'll be fine.

The truth is the 08 is where the new GM started.

The 08 was the first car that fully involved Bob Lutz and he took the car from the 07-08 Classic to the next level and took out much of the old culture. This is the car he asked the sheet metal engineer if he could get the same body gaps as a Hyundai or better. He said yes but just was never told to do it because the old culture said only do as you are told. He said just do it and never wait to be told. The only thing that held the 08 back was the lack of money and even then Lutz got as much as he could to show what they could do.

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:22 PM, smk4565 said:

I probably would have made all wheel drive available.   This segment is the most competitive of any segment to begin with.  There are about 10 entries in it.  Then you have the shift to SUVs, where a lot of people are trading in a mid-size sedan or cross shopping the mid-size sedan with a C-segment crossover.   So the CR-V, Rav4, Escape, etc all offer 5 seats, similar equipment, more cargo space, all wheel drive and similar fuel economy to a Fusion, Camry or Malibu.  If the Malibu had awd, maybe you prevent some people from going to the crossover because of the perceived safety that awd provides.

Get real check the numbers of AWD cars sold. Ford with the Fusion sell only around 10K-12K AWD cars at best a year. Compared to the number on FWD it is a drop in the bucket and marginal if it is even bring in the cost of development. It also is not close to a Haldex system.

Most other models in class do not offer it and there are reasons in the value class they don't.

GM does offer the system in the Buick line and it can be leveraged out with Opel and even now Holden so it is not like they have ignored the market.

Most people in this class if they are wanting AWD are wanting a CUV and here is where GM sells over 300,000 units with just less than half of them in the Nox and Terrain being AWD. Here you can make back your investment.

Ever price a Fusion AWD. Most are loaded models and the sticker goes over $42,000. You think many people will pay over $42K for a Malibu when a Audi or even a ATS Turo AWD is not all that much more?

I head the same complaint on my HHR SS from people on the forum. We want AWD. I asked OK you already have a sticker of $28K in 2008 and would you be willing to pay over $31,000 for an HHR? At that time over $30K there were some very good options out there like a G8 GT etc.

When you spew these options out consider the cost of development and the numbers of units sold and you will see it is not all that easy. Yes Subaru does it but most of their system interchange with their line so they can leverage it out.

Well Malibu needs something to stand out, sales are lackluster, and as the Cruze gets bigger it squeezes the Malibu and could be stealing sales from it.   And as far as platforms go, GM is moving crossovers to the new Delta and Epsilon platforms,  Cruze and Buick Envision have the same chassis, you could make an AWD Cruze easily.  You can make AWD anything on the GM Gamma, Delta and Epsilon platforms.

Perhaps awd wouldn't get Malibu more sales, that would have to be a marketing study done.  But styling changes have never really gotten the sales needle to move with the Malibu.

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

If you are seeking to offer class leading fuel economy, then this is the path you take....with small displacement.  Plain and simple.  I am sure the performance will be adequate for this class of sedan, and if you think you need more, well they offer more.

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:42 PM, smk4565 said:

Well Malibu needs something to stand out, sales are lackluster, and as the Cruze gets bigger it squeezes the Malibu and could be stealing sales from it.   And as far as platforms go, GM is moving crossovers to the new Delta and Epsilon platforms,  Cruze and Buick Envision have the same chassis, you could make an AWD Cruze easily.  You can make AWD anything on the GM Gamma, Delta and Epsilon platforms.

 

Perhaps awd wouldn't get Malibu more sales, that would have to be a marketing study done.  But styling changes have never really gotten the sales needle to move with the Malibu.

Sales crowns for one single sedan from one single brand should means squat to GM, because they have many other brands and sedans.  It is the total sales that matter.

This is a market penetration strategy. With all the investment made in to the product, GM is banking on volume.

I think they've finally sorted out the exterior design; but the interior looks somewhat bleak in the gray interior photos shown so far. But it's just another competent midsize sedan; nothing really that sets the car apart.  

Even with the weight loss; there are still lighter rivals; even with the new interior; still others have outstanding interiors (like the Chrysler 200, Kia Optima).

This car is now finally in the hunt; but it's not gonna upset any other player either.

It must be difficult to stand out in this otherwise conservative segment.  

If you go too bold, you alienate buyers and lose sales.

If you go too vanilla, there is another risk there too.

Malibu seems to be heading in the right direction, and I don't think there is no easy best solution.  

It's a tight rope walk you need to balance carefully. They seem to be balancing pretty well.

The fact is most people are not really wanting to stand out.

They want a car they can afford.

They want a car that is reliable.

They want a car with many features that is still affordable and a good value.

They want it to get good MPG.

They want power but not at the expense of MPG.

They want resale.

They want safe.

They want it to not be hideous but they do not care if it looks like it came from an Italian design house.

Just look at the formula Honda and Toyota has used for years and you will see non offensive boring cars that are generally are well optioned at prices that most can afford. They normally have to just do tires and brakes along with oil changes in the first 100K miles. They are safe if it crashes and they can trade it for a decent price once it is time.

The Malibu has hit on all these wants and has added a little styling to stand out from the others. They are going more aggressive on price and that means a lot here. Most people can care less with HID lights if they can lower their payment. While GM may not show the resale yet they can challenge Honda and Toyota on price as they are higher and most people already have been turning to Hyundai and Kia to save money. Both of these brands cut corners to save money. GM may have cut a HID but over all they will still offer a car that will go 300K miles with minimal care. Drive up demand the trade in will also come up.

They have had to pick and choose here where they want to compete and they have put together a very compelling package. This car will sell north of 200K units with in the next three years. As trust is earned sales will also come. We saw this in the Nox where sales were modest the first year and since then the sales have gone up each and every year. Last year they were well over 200K units on a vehicle in the same price range.

I fear the one vehicle to hurt the Malibu the most may be the Nox. Same price segment and the increase popularity of the CUV are a threat to the mid size sedan.

The Cruze, Malibu and Nox will be a good thing for GM over the next 5 years. They will make some noise here.

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

Yet what you miss is that the Mazda 3 and Focus have low torque engines that have to be rev'd hard to get them to move and then they are lackluster at best, this engine with a butt load of torque at a low RPM will move this car just fine and still have a bit left over to passing with driver, 4 passengers and a load in the trunk.

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:15 AM, hyperv6 said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:15 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

 

It's like I've been arguing in the thread about pushrods.  It's all about low end torque.  This new 1.5T has as much torque at 2,000 rpm as the current 2.5 produces at 4,400 rpm.    As a base engine, it will do fine.

 

Drew it is clear he has no clue or even has driven one of the Eco DI Turbo engines as it has more low end Torque than some recent V8 models and a torque curve flatter than the Bonneville.

It is post like this that lose credibility in the argument and he finishes himself off.

 

Two things-

1)I'd like to know what your response is going to be when the car comes out and reviewers say it feels underpowered.

2)Hyper, I work in the car business. I've driven and forgotten about more cars than yo can imagine. I OWNED a turbocharged car for years. Here's a news flash for you- turbo, NA, pushrod, OHC, an engine that's underpowered is underpowered. End of discussion.

It's clear YOU don't know WTF you're talking about.

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:53 PM, hyperv6 said:

The fact is most people are not really wanting to stand out.

They want a car they can afford.

They want a car that is reliable.

They want a car with many features that is still affordable and a good value.

They want it to get good MPG.

They want power but not at the expense of MPG.

They want resale.

They want safe.

They want it to not be hideous but they do not care if it looks like it came from an Italian design house.

Just look at the formula Honda and Toyota has used for years and you will see non offensive boring cars that are generally are well optioned at prices that most can afford. They normally have to just do tires and brakes along with oil changes in the first 100K miles. They are safe if it crashes and they can trade it for a decent price once it is time.

The Malibu has hit on all these wants and has added a little styling to stand out from the others. They are going more aggressive on price and that means a lot here. Most people can care less with HID lights if they can lower their payment. While GM may not show the resale yet they can challenge Honda and Toyota on price as they are higher and most people already have been turning to Hyundai and Kia to save money. Both of these brands cut corners to save money. GM may have cut a HID but over all they will still offer a car that will go 300K miles with minimal care. Drive up demand the trade in will also come up.

They have had to pick and choose here where they want to compete and they have put together a very compelling package. This car will sell north of 200K units with in the next three years. As trust is earned sales will also come. We saw this in the Nox where sales were modest the first year and since then the sales have gone up each and every year. Last year they were well over 200K units on a vehicle in the same price range.

I fear the one vehicle to hurt the Malibu the most may be the Nox. Same price segment and the increase popularity of the CUV are a threat to the mid size sedan.

The Cruze, Malibu and Nox will be a good thing for GM over the next 5 years. They will make some noise here.

You wanna talk about ME being clueless and you go make such a pathetically biased fanboy post??? Please.

The Malibu sells near the bottom of the barrel of the current midsize market for very, very good reason. A cheap, chintzy interior, small back seat, bland design, poor content for the price, and less than class-leading reliability and value all conspire against it. Resale value? That's a good one. They have atrocious residual. My dealer can't hardly give Malibus away, and we're squarely in pro-Domestic America.

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

Are you talking about the Focus ST? Because the 2.0 and 1.0T do not make more than 160hp. The 2.0 makes 160hp/146tq and the 1.0T makes 123hp/123tq.

The Mazda does have a larger(non-performance) engine option, which I think is really cool and unique to the segment. 2.0: 155hp/150tq and 2.5: 184hp/185tq.

I will agree that 160hp is very weak for these size of cars but the 184tq should make up for it in daily driving. It will run like most ecoboosts and run out of steam up top but it'll feel plenty fine when driving and accelerating normally, IMO.

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:26 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:15 AM, hyperv6 said:

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:15 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

 

It's like I've been arguing in the thread about pushrods.  It's all about low end torque.  This new 1.5T has as much torque at 2,000 rpm as the current 2.5 produces at 4,400 rpm.    As a base engine, it will do fine.

Drew it is clear he has no clue or even has driven one of the Eco DI Turbo engines as it has more low end Torque than some recent V8 models and a torque curve flatter than the Bonneville.

It is post like this that lose credibility in the argument and he finishes himself off.

 

Two things-

 

1)I'd like to know what your response is going to be when the car comes out and reviewers say it feels underpowered.

 

2)Hyper, I work in the car business. I've driven and forgotten about more cars than yo can imagine. I OWNED a turbocharged car for years. Here's a news flash for you- turbo, NA, pushrod, OHC, an engine that's underpowered is underpowered. End of discussion.

 

It's clear YOU don't know WTF you're talking about.

Frisk

What are you going to say if they come back with that this is a compelling car and a top choice in the segment?

As for you working in the industry what are you a car salesman? I work in the performance industry and understand there is more to car than just saying underpowered. You have to use all the factors like mass gearing and torque to understand just how a car feels. HP alone is not a true measure of how a car feels or even performs.

Even in this class what is considered adequate performance is not on the same scale as say a Camaro. Added Torque at the low end and cutting of mass can make a very good feeling and performing package here.

Lets let them put it out there and see just what we get. GM has made few mistakes here of late in the performance department. I would be shocked if the new engine did not run as good or if not better than the 2.5.

News flash you do not have all the answers here. Note it is clear to more than me.

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:34 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:53 PM, hyperv6 said:

The fact is most people are not really wanting to stand out.

They want a car they can afford.

They want a car that is reliable.

They want a car with many features that is still affordable and a good value.

They want it to get good MPG.

They want power but not at the expense of MPG.

They want resale.

They want safe.

They want it to not be hideous but they do not care if it looks like it came from an Italian design house.

Just look at the formula Honda and Toyota has used for years and you will see non offensive boring cars that are generally are well optioned at prices that most can afford. They normally have to just do tires and brakes along with oil changes in the first 100K miles. They are safe if it crashes and they can trade it for a decent price once it is time.

The Malibu has hit on all these wants and has added a little styling to stand out from the others. They are going more aggressive on price and that means a lot here. Most people can care less with HID lights if they can lower their payment. While GM may not show the resale yet they can challenge Honda and Toyota on price as they are higher and most people already have been turning to Hyundai and Kia to save money. Both of these brands cut corners to save money. GM may have cut a HID but over all they will still offer a car that will go 300K miles with minimal care. Drive up demand the trade in will also come up.

They have had to pick and choose here where they want to compete and they have put together a very compelling package. This car will sell north of 200K units with in the next three years. As trust is earned sales will also come. We saw this in the Nox where sales were modest the first year and since then the sales have gone up each and every year. Last year they were well over 200K units on a vehicle in the same price range.

I fear the one vehicle to hurt the Malibu the most may be the Nox. Same price segment and the increase popularity of the CUV are a threat to the mid size sedan.

The Cruze, Malibu and Nox will be a good thing for GM over the next 5 years. They will make some noise here.

 

 

You wanna talk about ME being clueless and you go make such a pathetically biased fanboy post??? Please.

 

The Malibu sells near the bottom of the barrel of the current midsize market for very, very good reason. A cheap, chintzy interior, small back seat, bland design, poor content for the price, and less than class-leading reliability and value all conspire against it. Resale value? That's a good one. They have atrocious residual. My dealer can't hardly give Malibus away, and we're squarely in pro-Domestic America.

No fan boy comments here troll. the Malibu as we have now is a left over design of old GM that was just put in to buy time. It is not the class leader but it is far from the worst car in class. too. Outside of the Honda and Toyota there are no real winners in resale here as so many cars are sold in this segment. Fleet sales have hurt the GM car and I expect that we will see the new car restricted from these sales as they have many of their other new cars.

As for not being able to sell a Malibu you do realize how many there are out there. It sounds more like a sales man issue to me.

You may not be in sales as you can't sell this pathetic story line very well.

hmmm. I get it you wash cars that is how you get to drive so many cars?

Pay attention and GM will sell the new car and keep the old one for fleets. This will help on resale. Also it is supply and demand. Time will tell if GM can keep demand up on these as they sell more and more of them. Many people are buying the Honda and Toyota too because they can't afford the new ones since they are higher priced.

Even with a hit it will take time to earn the reputation in this segment. Even Ford with the Fusion is still working on this and they too have a very good car. These things do not happen over night.

If Chevy wants better resale value they should offer 5 year/50k mile bumper to bumper warranty and 10 year/100k mile powertain warranty that are transferable. So that the 2nd or 3rd owner of the car could still have factory warranty. That would make the used cars more desirable and push up resale. GM or Ford still lose the reliability battle against Honda and Toyota in the mind of the consumer.

  On 9/14/2015 at 3:16 PM, hyperv6 said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:26 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:15 AM, hyperv6 said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:15 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 1:37 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

I'm sorry, I still think this thing is going to feel pokey. I think anything under 180hp is too little for this class. Even with the weight loss, I can see this thing feeling labored, especially with 2-3 passengers and cargo. Heck, you can get more powerful engines in the Mazda 3 and Focus.

 

As for the sales, I think the sales will increase very little, if at all. GM refuses to get aggressive on leasing programs, and coupled with ever increasing CUV market share, it sets the stage for mediocre sales. I can also all but guarantee there will be issues at launch with availability of certain trims, options, etc. 

 

That said, I'm still very much looking forward to seeing one in person and driving one.

 

It's like I've been arguing in the thread about pushrods.  It's all about low end torque.  This new 1.5T has as much torque at 2,000 rpm as the current 2.5 produces at 4,400 rpm.    As a base engine, it will do fine.

 

Drew it is clear he has no clue or even has driven one of the Eco DI Turbo engines as it has more low end Torque than some recent V8 models and a torque curve flatter than the Bonneville.

It is post like this that lose credibility in the argument and he finishes himself off.

 

 

Two things-

 

1)I'd like to know what your response is going to be when the car comes out and reviewers say it feels underpowered.

 

2)Hyper, I work in the car business. I've driven and forgotten about more cars than yo can imagine. I OWNED a turbocharged car for years. Here's a news flash for you- turbo, NA, pushrod, OHC, an engine that's underpowered is underpowered. End of discussion.

 

It's clear YOU don't know WTF you're talking about.

 

Frisk

What are you going to say if they come back with that this is a compelling car and a top choice in the segment?

As for you working in the industry what are you a car salesman? I work in the performance industry and understand there is more to car than just saying underpowered. You have to use all the factors like mass gearing and torque to understand just how a car feels. HP alone is not a true measure of how a car feels or even performs.

Even in this class what is considered adequate performance is not on the same scale as say a Camaro. Added Torque at the low end and cutting of mass can make a very good feeling and performing package here.

Lets let them put it out there and see just what we get. GM has made few mistakes here of late in the performance department. I would be shocked if the new engine did not run as good or if not better than the 2.5.

News flash you do not have all the answers here. Note it is clear to more than me.

 

No $h! Sherlock.

The car went to a down sized turbo I4 engine that I feel will be barely adequate for such a vehicle.

Argue that all you want, but you're not going to change my mind. This is the newest car in this segment, and it is starting off having to overcome a power deficit to many other players. So it makes torque a few grand earlier. The current 2.5 isn't exactly a slouch down low. It's also losing almost 40 hp, is the same torque and down on hp compared to the 1.5 Fusion, despite it's torque curve still won't match the best acceleration in the I4 class. 

If they say it's the best in class, good for them. That won't change the fact that it's underpowered if it turns out to be the case.

It has already been show warranties mean little.

The only way to win this game is to continue to build better cars with better reliability and earn the image.

There is no short cut or bribe to a solid image.

On new cars you can get away with this parlor trick but used cars not so much as they will just buy the better car if quality is called into question.

The customer wants no warranty issues not just covered warranty issues.

Most cars today can make it to 12 years with out major issues and by then in many areas the rust starts and finishes them off before the mechanicals.

  On 9/14/2015 at 3:26 PM, hyperv6 said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:34 PM, Frisky Dingo said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 11:53 PM, hyperv6 said:

The fact is most people are not really wanting to stand out.

They want a car they can afford.

They want a car that is reliable.

They want a car with many features that is still affordable and a good value.

They want it to get good MPG.

They want power but not at the expense of MPG.

They want resale.

They want safe.

They want it to not be hideous but they do not care if it looks like it came from an Italian design house.

Just look at the formula Honda and Toyota has used for years and you will see non offensive boring cars that are generally are well optioned at prices that most can afford. They normally have to just do tires and brakes along with oil changes in the first 100K miles. They are safe if it crashes and they can trade it for a decent price once it is time.

The Malibu has hit on all these wants and has added a little styling to stand out from the others. They are going more aggressive on price and that means a lot here. Most people can care less with HID lights if they can lower their payment. While GM may not show the resale yet they can challenge Honda and Toyota on price as they are higher and most people already have been turning to Hyundai and Kia to save money. Both of these brands cut corners to save money. GM may have cut a HID but over all they will still offer a car that will go 300K miles with minimal care. Drive up demand the trade in will also come up.

They have had to pick and choose here where they want to compete and they have put together a very compelling package. This car will sell north of 200K units with in the next three years. As trust is earned sales will also come. We saw this in the Nox where sales were modest the first year and since then the sales have gone up each and every year. Last year they were well over 200K units on a vehicle in the same price range.

I fear the one vehicle to hurt the Malibu the most may be the Nox. Same price segment and the increase popularity of the CUV are a threat to the mid size sedan.

The Cruze, Malibu and Nox will be a good thing for GM over the next 5 years. They will make some noise here.

 

 

You wanna talk about ME being clueless and you go make such a pathetically biased fanboy post??? Please.

 

The Malibu sells near the bottom of the barrel of the current midsize market for very, very good reason. A cheap, chintzy interior, small back seat, bland design, poor content for the price, and less than class-leading reliability and value all conspire against it. Resale value? That's a good one. They have atrocious residual. My dealer can't hardly give Malibus away, and we're squarely in pro-Domestic America.

 

No fan boy comments here troll. the Malibu as we have now is a left over design of old GM that was just put in to buy time. It is not the class leader but it is far from the worst car in class. too. Outside of the Honda and Toyota there are no real winners in resale here as so many cars are sold in this segment. Fleet sales have hurt the GM car and I expect that we will see the new car restricted from these sales as they have many of their other new cars.

As for not being able to sell a Malibu you do realize how many there are out there. It sounds more like a sales man issue to me.

You may not be in sales as you can't sell this pathetic story line very well.

hmmm. I get it you wash cars that is how you get to drive so many cars?

Pay attention and GM will sell the new car and keep the old one for fleets. This will help on resale. Also it is supply and demand. Time will tell if GM can keep demand up on these as they sell more and more of them. Many people are buying the Honda and Toyota too because they can't afford the new ones since they are higher priced.

Even with a hit it will take time to earn the reputation in this segment. Even Ford with the Fusion is still working on this and they too have a very good car. These things do not happen over night.

 

I'm sorry, are you really trying to insult me because of my profession?? Real original reply there. And mature. Are my feelings supposed to be hurt because I sell cars?

We don't hardly sell Malibus because people don't want them. They don't even ask for them. They'd rather buy Camrys and Accords because they're better all around options for the class.

As for the sales thing. GM tried that with the new Impala, too. Guess what? They still don't hold their value for $h!.

Dingo I note in most of your comments it is "I Feel". This is very subjective and not really a representative of what the real world is "Feeling". Also it does not represent the real numbers either.

Lets just let the lightest car in the segment get market and just see how it pans out. In this segment MPG is more important to most over 0-60 times. Most of these people it is just about getting there and not image or performance. Hence not the most exciting segment in the market.

From what I have found the final numbers are still not posted as they are estimated and normally add around 5 more HP and some more torque.

As it is now the 2.5 was 196HP @ 6300 RPM 191 FT LBS @ 4400RPM

The 1.5 is estimated at 160HP and 184 FT LBS. noting that most DI Turbo engines bring the torque in at much lower than 4400 RPM, Mine has 315 FT LBS at 2000 RPM and holds it to 5300 RPM.

Add in the drop of 300 HP on top of these numbers I do not expect a M series car but one as good if not a little better than what we had with more MPG.

No matter how you want to spin this it will not be a step back.

With the estimated number we are only down 7 FT LBS and it may come in much lower than the present 2.5. The final number may even erase this.

No I don't have all the answers but with the numbers we have and what GM normally does I can see them all working in the right direction. But till the final product is rolled out we will have to wait for those answers.

I'm sorry, are you really trying to insult me because of my profession??

Well so you are not the wash boy?

To be honest I really did not know what you did nor really care. You have taken your shots too and I just return in kind. If I wanted to hurt your feeling I would have said something bad about your mother.

I normally keep things on the respectful level till the other person stops being respectful in kind. I can disagree and get along with most people but when they start like you have here I really don't care anymore.

First thing you need to do is not judge the new car with the past. The past has many issue that do not pertain to the new car. H

second Honda and Toyota have a happy fan base and it will only take time and better product to over come that. Better product we have coming and time will just take that time.

As for under powered? Till you drive the car you had better not pass judgment on what you have no clue of. You think you can really notice 7 FT LBS? This is what you feel and what moves the car from a stop not as much HP. You mechanical aptitude side does correlate with a Salesman.

The truth is todays Malibu that is coming will be as good as any car in the segment. Changing minds takes time and not much anyone can do with that. While you may not be able to sell a Malibu many people must be able as there are a ton of them on the road.

With the way you think I can see why you can't sell one. Judgmental Pessimism of a product does not lend to being a good salesman of a product.