Spying: Telling the Difference Between the Cadillac CT4 and CT5

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

XT5 sales as of end of June 2018 - 31,890: Base price $40,570

X3 sales as of end of June 2018 - 24,750: Base price $41,000

GLC Sales as of end of June 2018 - 35,145: Base price $40,050

Q5 Sales as of end of June 2018 - 28,951: Base Price $41,500 

Cadillac is definitely competing against the Germans

They are in that sense, but the XT5 is the largest of the group, not that that is a bad thing for people that want room, but there is also an X5, GLE, Q7 sitting on top of those cars that Cadillac is totally ignoring a whole segment.

Yes, Cadillac is missing from some segments, but that does not discount the fact that the CUV/SUV segments it does play in it does very well. 

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What size is that, again? Is that X1/GLA sized or X3/GLE sized? Or, more than likely, is it in the middle? lol 

The XT4 is 8 inches longer than a GLA, 2 inches shorter than a GLC.   Perhaps it will size up well with the new GLB, which rumor is may have a 3rd row, which I imagine that will be a segment exclusive.  

Bottom line is Cadillac could easily do an SUV smaller than the XT4.

14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It is GLA/X1 priced (the figure that matters most) but with a usable sized interior and slightly smaller inside than the X3.

So why not just back to selling size and space for Cadillac?  Make the XT4 the size of an X3 or GLC but $6,000 cheaper, make the XT5 the size of an X5 for a $10k discount, make the CTS/CT5 a mid-size sedan at 3-series money, the CT6 is already a full size car for mid-size money, make the CT4 $29k.   At least it would be a strategy they could go all in on and market and promote.   Their line up can't decide whether it's wants to be a Lexus fighter, a Lincoln fighter or a Nurburgring conquerer.  

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The XT4 is 8 inches longer than a GLA, 2 inches shorter than a GLC.   Perhaps it will size up well with the new GLB, which rumor is may have a 3rd row, which I imagine that will be a segment exclusive.  

Bottom line is Cadillac could easily do an SUV smaller than the XT4.

Will it ever sink in with you that I don't give a flip about exterior dimensions?  The GLC has less interior room than my Encore in nearly every dimension except rear legroom and yet it is overall longer than the Encore by a lot.   Exterior size difference DOES NOT MATTER when it is less than about a foot.

The XT4 competes with the GLA.... period. They are priced within $1000 of each other.  Cadillac is nicer because it has a nicer interior plus a bit more room. 

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So why not just back to selling size and space for Cadillac?  Make the XT4 the size of an X3 or GLC but $6,000 cheaper, make the XT5 the size of an X5 for a $10k discount, make the CTS/CT5 a mid-size sedan at 3-series money, the CT6 is already a full size car for mid-size money, make the CT4 $29k.   At least it would be a strategy they could go all in on and market and promote.   Their line up can't decide whether it's wants to be a Lexus fighter, a Lincoln fighter or a Nurburgring conquerer.  

Because you've failed to wrap your head around the fact that they already do that. 

The ATS is priced against the CLA... it's bigger, has better engine options, and handles better. You insist on comparing it to the C-Class... which when you put even the most modest of options on it is priced like a CTS. Again, the Cadillac has more/better engine options more room, and when priced the same, better handling. Then we get to the E-Class which is priced against the CT6.  Dollar for Dollar the CT6 beats the E-class on options and most powertrains. 

I've been explaining this to you for years and yet you can't absorb the fact that what you just suggested is exactly what Cadillac is doing.

22 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It doesn't matter if it is a Lexus or an Acura or an Audi.....   They are more alike than different, so yes they compete.   Having a preference for size over sport or sport over size doesn't make one or the other better. .....at the end of the day, which ever company relieves your wallet of ~$45k won the sale.

The Cadillac being able to swallow two full size suitcases over the GLC which can barely take one (less cargo room than my Encore) makes it more of a luxury car than the GLC in my personal opinion.

That's a lot of Crown Vics.

Cargo room in the Encore 48.4 cubic feet, GLC 56.5 cubic feet, XT5, 63 cubic feet.

Encore legroom Front/Rear: 40.8/35.75 inches  GLC: 40.8/37.3 inches

Encore shoulder room front/rear: 54.2/52.5  GLC: 57.3/56.5 inches

So the GLC is roomier.    And you can buy a GLC that is faster than a Corvette Grand Sport.  Mercedes isn't trying to sell cubic foot per dollar,  they sell technology and performance.  No one ever said Mercedes is the value play in luxury, they are usually the most expensive car in the segment, but you get what you pay for.

17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You insist on comparing it to the C-Class...

In all fairness, when it came out it was absolutely a direct competitor to the 3 and C. 

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cargo room in the Encore 48.4 cubic feet, GLC 56.5 cubic feet, XT5, 63 cubic feet.

Encore legroom Front/Rear: 40.8/35.75 inches  GLC: 40.8/37.3 inches

Encore shoulder room front/rear: 54.2/52.5  GLC: 57.3/56.5 inches

Good ol' @smk4565 ..... That's with the rear seat down. 

Try taking 4 people plus luggage in your GLC with 17.6 cu ft

The Encore has 18.80 and even that is tight.  

I stand by my statement. The GLC can't even swallow 2 full-size suitcases in the back.  Advantage, Cadillac with the XT5. (30.0 cu ft)

THAT IS SELLING SPACE AND COMFORT. Exactly as you suggested.

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Because you've failed to wrap your head around the fact that they already do that. 

The ATS is priced against the CLA... it's bigger, has better engine options, and handles better. You insist on comparing it to the C-Class... which when you put even the most modest of options on it is priced like a CTS. Again, the Cadillac has more/better engine options more room, and when priced the same, better handling. Then we get to the E-Class which is priced against the CT6.  Dollar for Dollar the CT6 beats the E-class on options and most powertrains. 

I've been explaining this to you for years and yet you can't absorb the fact that what you just suggested is exactly what Cadillac is doing.

No they aren't.  The ATS's dimensions are 183″ L x 71″ W x 56″ H.   When it went on sale the C-class dimensions were 180.8 x 69.7 x 56.3 in.  The ATS was slightly larger at the time and they bragged about how the weight was less than a 3-series or C-class, when the CTS came out they said it is lighter than a 5-series and the CTS-V would have more power than the M5.  I don't remember Cadillac saying the CTS-V was an M3competitor.  

If they want to play the mid-size vehicle at small size price (which I do think is a smart strategy for them) then they need to market it that way and price it that way.  CT4 needs to be $32,000 and CT5 at $40,000.

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

In all fairness, when it came out it was absolutely a direct competitor to the 3 and C. 

Which is what it is.. what else would it be. 

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

In all fairness, when it came out it was absolutely a direct competitor to the 3 and C. 

Correct, as I said the ATS dimensions are 183" x 71" x 56" and a 2013 3-series dimensions are 183" x 71" x 56".   And that generation 3-series was on sale during the ATS's development, I don't think it was an accident that the ATS has the exact same dimensions as a 3-series.

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Good ol' @smk4565 ..... That's with the rear seat down. 

Try taking 4 people plus luggage in your GLC with 17.6 cu ft

The Encore has 18.80 and even that is tight.  

I stand by my statement. The GLC can't even swallow 2 full-size suitcases in the back.  Advantage, Cadillac with the XT5. (30.0 cu ft)

THAT IS SELLING SPACE AND COMFORT. Exactly as you suggested.

Right, so Cadillac should promote space and comfort, not handling, chassis dynamics, and how much weight savings they got out of the Omega platform, because no one cares what the car weighs except people that go to track days.  I don't think I ever heard an XT5 ad saying it was the roomiest SUV in its segment, and I don't know if a Lexus RX is roomier or not, and I don't really care to look it up.

But then they run the risk of getting into comparisons with an Acura MDX or Buick Enclave or Toyota Highlander even that all have more cargo space than an XT5 and 3-row seating.  Different attributes are going to attract people to a particular car.  The Mustang sells well, and it has no cargo room and a near useless back seat and doesn't work in snow, but people don't care.  But the Mustang has a clear image and clear advertising, Cadillac hasn't had that clear focus for decades, maybe they did in the Led Zeppelin advertising era, but it has been a long while.

no one cares about external dimensions. They care about price and space inside.   The original CTS was priced against the 3-series but was within tenths of an inch of the 5-series.  Interior-wise, it was slightly smaller than 5-series but larger than 3-series.  This is not a new phenomenon for Cadillac.

If you've got $40k, your choice is CLA or ATS... not C-Class.

If you've got $50k, your choice is GLC or XT5.... not GLE.

In 2004, if you've got $35k, your choice is CTS or 3-series.... not 5-series.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

no one cares about external dimensions. They care about price and space inside.   The original CTS was priced against the 3-series but was within tenths of an inch of the 5-series.  Interior-wise, it was slightly smaller than 5-series but larger than 3-series.  This is not a new phenomenon for Cadillac.

If you've got $40k, your choice is CLA or ATS... not C-Class.

If you've got $50k, your choice is GLC or XT5.... not GLE.

 

In 2004, if you've got $35k, your choice is CTS or 3-series.... not 5-series.

 

True, but you can't buy a CTS right now for 3-series money.   The original CTS was the only one that sold well because it was probably even cheaper than the Lexus ES of the time, the other mid-size car for 3-series money that sold well.

So what do they do with CT4/CT5 this time around?  The current ATS/CTS are dead in the water regardless of what you compare them too, neither sell.

On 8/17/2018 at 10:39 AM, smk4565 said:

Very good points and even the CTS has a small back seat for how large a car it is. With the CTS’s wheelbase there should be XTS level room in that car. 

I wonder what % of Cadillac buyers are men, vs BMW or Audi buyers?  Because I feel like Cadillac appeals more to men, who on average are taller than women, so that leg room complaint comes up more often.

And yes the Alfa Romeo is the performance champ and it has over 500 hp.  The ATS-V is down on power, needs a V8.

Exactly.  Audis quite honestly are chick cars mostly and corn state large boys (a lot of GM's core fan base) don't really get into Audis like the women who like those interiors and dashboards and precise and tidy do.  Honestly though go to an auto show and listen to men bitch about how Cadillacs have no room.

I had to rethink something balthazar had said earlier about styling.  I was out driving a bit ago and was stuck behind two Audis side by side, both about 2-3 years old.  Both the exact same dull dark gray color.  One was an A3 sedan and the other was an A4 sedan.  You can BARELY tell them apart from behind... just a bit of difference in the trunk lids and the license plate, very much like the story on autoblog described trying to spot the CT4 and CT5 differences.  The A3 and A4 are not styling marvels!  Audi never really does much different looking in terms of styling sometimes.

More and more we can see how Johan got pissed off and also maybe he was part of the problem too!  He may have said, the A3 and A4 look the same so why not have a CT4 and CT5 you can barely tell apart.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What do you mean they "could have a contender"?  They're still kicking butt now and it's one of the oldest lux SUVs out there.

Where Cadillac is competing in CUVs/SUVs, they do very very well. The XT4 is going to come in and do very well in its segment.

The X1/X2 are the same vehicle with different rooflines. The X5 and X6 ditto..... don't give BMW extra credit just for having name diarrhea. 

that is how they can have one model look trucky and the other one look fastback coupey.  Which GM hasn't caught onto much yet, but i think that is what is happening with the CUV market.  its splintering into the part that wants it to look like a truck / old school SUV, and the other that wants it to look like a jacked up sexy sedan or coupe, or at a minimum look sleeker than trucky.

Cadillac is brining new stuff out fast though which is great to see.

I think the CT4 being an ATS-L would be great. But please Cadillac offer an interior on par with Audi at least in terms of technical sophistication. 

25 minutes ago, regfootball said:

  its splintering into the part that wants it to look like a truck / old school SUV, and the other that wants it to look like a jacked up sexy sedan or coupe, or at a minimum look sleeker than trucky.

That segment is so small it is a waste of time and resources to go after. Most people DO NOT want a coupe on steroids as a CUV. Waste of effort and time for all auto companies. The Germans can continue to beat themselves up over it for the what 100-200 sold a month.

One Q: how much will the CT4 sell for? And the CT5?

If they are too closely priced, then no buyer would ever pick a CT4 since the CT5 would presumably be larger and/or better.  Base prices need to be close to 3 series and 5 series pricing but a little lower.  This may be a time to remind Cadillac that ONE sedan can take the place of those two, especially since there is no XT7 to take care of the large CUV segment.  The only reason Buick has not failed here is because of the Encore and Envision (and to a lesser extent the Enclave).  Cadillac needs to do the same quickly and not leave so much money on the table.  New sedan sales are falling and customers want CUVs.  Keep the CT6 and the Escalade but fill out your CUV portfolio please.

7 hours ago, riviera74 said:

One Q: how much will the CT4 sell for? And the CT5?

If they are too closely priced, then no buyer would ever pick a CT4 since the CT5 would presumably be larger and/or better.  Base prices need to be close to 3 series and 5 series pricing but a little lower.  This may be a time to remind Cadillac that ONE sedan can take the place of those two, especially since there is no XT7 to take care of the large CUV segment.  The only reason Buick has not failed here is because of the Encore and Envision (and to a lesser extent the Enclave).  Cadillac needs to do the same quickly and not leave so much money on the table.  New sedan sales are falling and customers want CUVs.  Keep the CT6 and the Escalade but fill out your CUV portfolio please.

A 4-cylinder rear drive 5-Series starts at $53,000.  No way can they price a CT5 there.  Cadillac should be going for Genesis G70/G80 pricing.

And yes they need more SUVs, I don’t know what is taking so long, SUVs were hot 5 years ago.

^ And they're not hot now? It took decades for SUV sales to get where they are now, not months.
Cadillac has 3, and the 4th is on the way. Frankly, that's plenty. Stay out of the bottom feeder CUV segment, please, Cadillac.

On 8/16/2018 at 11:19 PM, balthazar said:

ATS & CTS have not "failed". ATS is selling 80% of the volume of the A3, but it starts 20+% higher in price. It has also set the segment benchmark in driving dynamics, and has far better packaging than the identical-sized MBCLA.
Model 3 was unveiled in March of 2016, and only finally had 2 decent and 1 really good month last month. But the lug nuts on Tesla are loose and backing off, and Model 3 deposit cancellations have skyrocketed.

Let's not forget that the A3 also has a Convertible, and Sportback Plug-In (Wagon) along with that cheaper price. It would be wild if those variants make up the difference in sales

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

A 4-cylinder rear drive 5-Series starts at $53,000.  No way can they price a CT5 there.  Cadillac should be going for Genesis G70/G80 pricing.

And yes they need more SUVs, I don’t know what is taking so long, SUVs were hot 5 years ago.

U should check that pricing.. the a COMPARABLE CTS 2.0L starts at $700 less than the 530i.. The BASE CTS doesn't even have Navigation like the 530.. and according to my dealer is a "White Whale" that they have never even seen

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ And they're not hot now? It took decades for SUV sales to get where they are now, not months.
Cadillac has 3, and the 4th is on the way. Frankly, that's plenty. Stay out of the bottom feeder CUV segment, please, Cadillac.

Yes they are hot now, my point was Cadillac is late to the SUV party, the XT4 isn’t at dealers yet and XT6 is at least a year out.  You have BMW and Audi still bringing more SUV’s even though they have 5 or 6 already.  I don’t think there is such thing as too many sadly.  

I do think there is room above the Escalade, that is where Cadillac needs to go more so than below the XT4.  Really you could put 2 SUV’s above the Escalade if one was ultra luxury and the other was a Lamborghini Urus fighter.

3 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

U should check that pricing.. the a COMPARABLE CTS 2.0L starts at $700 less than the 530i.. The BASE CTS doesn't even have Navigation like the 530.. and according to my dealer is a "White Whale" that they have never even seen

The Cadillac website says the CTS starts at $46,000, the 530i starts at $53,000, that is what I was going off.  My earlier point was they can’t price a base CT5 at $53,000 like the 5-Series is, regardless of the equipment on it.  People expect a sedan to be cheaper than an SUV, if an XT5 is $41,000 to start, a CT5 needs to be $40,000.

3 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Let's not forget that the A3 also has a Convertible, and Sportback Plug-In (Wagon) along with that cheaper price. It would be wild if those variants make up the difference in sales

And yet since the 90s the Germans have done sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon  body styles on many of their models and Cadillac is sedan only save for the ATS coupe.  Why doesn’t Cadillac make more body styles?

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Cadillac website says the CTS starts at $46,000, the 530i starts at $53,000, that is what I was going off.  My earlier point was they can’t price a base CT5 at $53,000 like the 5-Series is, regardless of the equipment on it.  People expect a sedan to be cheaper than an SUV, if an XT5 is $41,000 to start, a CT5 needs to be $40,000.

And yet since the 90s the Germans have done sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon  body styles on many of their models and Cadillac is sedan only save for the ATS coupe.  Why doesn’t Cadillac make more body styles?

M y point was that the base model CTS is very seldom seen nor bought... This is not a bargain hunters segment UNLESS U are talking about a Genesis... which U seemingly try to insult the storied 110 year old brand Cadillac as being comparable enough for them to price as similar. The CTS tho, as an American vehicle does occasionally get service duty.. of course not as prevalent as the 5Series does in its home market. Meaning that a base model CTS (Standard) might be getting some fleet duty where as the 530i skips the comparable model here in the U.S. and gives us a CTS Luxury competitor to start. They don't sell the 520i here.. if they did.. they would start it off at the same price as the CTS STANDARD

As to the Variants.. U are preaching to the Pope on this one

On 8/17/2018 at 3:49 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Which is what it is.. what else would it be. 

Drew made it sound like it is stupid to compare the ATS to the C Class. 

17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Drew made it sound like it is stupid to compare the ATS to the C Class. 

Yeah, I don't buy that.   Can't compare it to the CLA since the CLA is FWD/AWD.  The ATS lines up in size and drivetrains w/ the C class (and 3/4 series), availability of a 2dr, etc...if not in price.   Anyway, it's a moot point... 

So I wonder if the CT4 will offer a coupe and convertible, it really needs those body styles to compete w/ the C-class and 3/4 series... not to mention it is absurd that there is no Cadillac convertible..

Cadillac will probably never be a full line luxury marque like BMW and MB with lots of niche models, but more body styles is a good thing.. 

On 8/17/2018 at 6:35 PM, regfootball said:

that is how they can have one model look trucky and the other one look fastback coupey.  Which GM hasn't caught onto much yet, but i think that is what is happening with the CUV market.  its splintering into the part that wants it to look like a truck / old school SUV, and the other that wants it to look like a jacked up sexy sedan or coupe, or at a minimum look sleeker than trucky.

They do the same thing just with different brands instead. 

13 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

not to mention it is absurd that there is no Cadillac convertible..

Yeah, I don't really understand that either. They have a Camaro Convertible so why can't they hack up a ATS or CTS into a convertible? 

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I don't really understand that either. They have a Camaro Convertible so why can't they hack up a ATS or CTS into a convertible? 

Exactly...and a luxury buyer isn't going to be shopping a Camaro. 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I don't really understand that either. They have a Camaro Convertible so why can't they hack up a ATS or CTS into a convertible? 

I think Convertibles are such a small % of the market that there is no justification to bother building one for Cadillac. Yes, many think they are cool, but who actually buys them is a much smaller percentage. 

Better to focus on other models that can add to the profit line than convertibles. Right now just getting a full product line would be a start.

18 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I think Convertibles are such a small % of the market that there is no justification to bother building one for Cadillac. Yes, many think they are cool, but who actually buys them is a much smaller percentage. 

Better to focus on other models that can add to the profit line than convertibles. Right now just getting a full product line would be a start.

Yeah but is it that much to cut up an ATS and/or CTS for a premium selling price? These are luxury vehicles and a convertible option is definitely a luxury that all of their competitors offer. I don't expect them to have a bunch of convertibles offered in all of their coupe offerings but it's still odd that they don't have even one. 

I don't always think it is about the sale of the vehicle itself as much as it is getting somebody to the dealers' lots. 

If somebody drives by a lot and sees an ATS convertible and goes and checks it out but ends up in a coupe or sedan.. yeah they didn't sell a convertible but they got somebody to stop and look at their products. 

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

 

24 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I think Convertibles are such a small % of the market that there is no justification to bother building one for Cadillac. Yes, many think they are cool, but who actually buys them is a much smaller percentage. 

Better to focus on other models that can add to the profit line than convertibles. Right now just getting a full product line would be a start.

Small niche, but coupes and convertibles are important for a luxury marque.  

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 I don't expect them to have a bunch of convertibles offered in all of their coupe offerings but it's still odd that they don't have even one.  

They only have one coupe currently..don't even have a midsize or large coupe.     But since the volume luxury lease market is CUVs, that's where their focus is these days..:(

3 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

They only have one coupe currently..don't even have a midsize or large coupe.     But since the volume luxury lease market is CUVs, that's where their focus is these days..:(

I get it because if they can start making more cash from the CUVs it can fund the coupes but it sucks they aren't here and haven't been.

When was the last time they had two coupes at the same time? 

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I get it because if they can start making more cash from the CUVs it can fund the coupes but it sucks they aren't here and haven't been.

When was the last time they had two coupes at the same time? 

I think the ATS and CTS-v coupe overlapped for a year or two.   Before that, would have been back in the early 90s when they still had a Coupe de Ville and an Eldorado.   Sadly, the market for coupes of all sorts has faded as people became obsessed with CUVs.

@Cubical-aka-Moltar @ccap41 I understand you both think they should have convertibles, but I honestly do not see the sales numbers to justify it at all. I even expect them to shrink in the future till we get to a universal EV platform where it is really easy to make one. The biggest reason against it is the added engineering work to reinforce safety requirements in a convertible which increase costs. Plus with the large increase in skin cancer, more and more people are NOT wanting to be exposed to the sun as proven by the huge increase in blacked out windows to keep the auto cool inside and reduce the UV issues.

With that said, I was interested in wondering what convertibles are available and here is the list as what I could find for each OEM. I am sure not all the 2019 models are out yet, but it is a much smaller list as the industry moves over to CUV's as the dominate auto over cars.

2018 Convertibles

1. Alfa Romeo 4C Spider
2. Aston Martin Vanquish
3. Audi A3
4. Audi S5
5. Audi TT
6. Bentley Continental GT
7. BMW 230
8. BMW 430
9. BMW 440
10. BMW 640
11. BMW 650
12. BMW M240
13. BMW M4
14. BMW M6
15. Buick Cascada
16. Chevrolet Camaro
17. Chevrolet Corvette
18. Fiat 124 Spider
19. Fiat 500C
20. Ford Mustang
21. Jaguar F-Type
22. Lamborghini Aventador S
23. Lamborghini Huracan
24. Land Rover Range Rover Evoque
25. Maserati GranTurismo
26. Mazda MX-5 Miata
27. Mercedes-Benz AMG SL
28. Mercedes-Benz AMG SLC
29. Mercedes-Benz C-class
30. Mercedes-Benz E-class
31. Mercedes-Benz SL
32. Mercedes-Benz SLC
33. Mini Convertible
34. Nissan 370Z
35. Porsche 718 boxster
36. Porsche 911
37. Rolls-Royce Dawn
38. Smart fortwo
39. Volkswagen Beetle

2019 convertibles

1. Alfa Romeo 4C Spider
2. BMW 230
3. BMW 430
4. BMW 440
5. BMW M240
6. BMW M4
7. Buick Cascada
8. Chevrolet Camaro
9. Chevrolet Corvette
10. Fiat 124 Spider
11. Ford Mustang
12. Jaguar F-Type
13. Mercedes-Benz AMG SL
14. Mercedes-Benz AMG SLC
15. Mercedes-Benz SL
16. Mercedes-Benz SLC
17. Mini Convertible
18. Nissan 370Z

I still do not see value in building a convertible for Cadillac until the full portfolio of auto's is built and done.

Info gathered from cars.com web site.

https://www.cars.com

5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

The biggest reason against it is the added engineering work to reinforce safety requirements in a convertible which increase costs.

They already have the Camaro convertible. 

If they didn't have that, I would agree much more and it would make sense not to drop a lot of cash into a small segment. 

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

• Mercedes-Benz AMG SL
• Mercedes-Benz AMG SLC
• Mercedes-Benz C-class
• Mercedes-Benz SL
• Mercedes-Benz SLC

You're missing the E-Class "cabriolet".

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They already have the Camaro convertible. 

If they didn't have that, I would agree much more and it would make sense not to drop a lot of cash into a small segment. 

You're missing the E-Class "cabriolet".

Is the Camaro on the same platform as the ATS/CTS or the now to be CT4/CT5?

e-class cabriolet did not show up in the search. Weird as looking at other sites it does not show up either yet go to MBUSA site and they show it.

Updated that list for 2018 as they do not show it for 2019 yet.

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Is the Camaro on the same platform as the ATS/CTS or the now to be CT4/CT5?

e-class cabriolet did not show up in the search. Weird as looking at other sites it does not show up either yet go to MBUSA site and they show it.

Updated that list for 2018 as they do not show it for 2019 yet.

Camaro, ATS, and CTS are all on the Alpha platform. 

Obviously with the CTS not having a coupe, they're not going to have a 4-door convertible so I get that. 

I hope the CUV craze dies out... kind of tired of all the appliances.

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I hope the CUV craze dies out... kind of tired of all the appliances.

I don't really expect it to die out any time soon. CUVs get too close of fuel economy to their similar cars now that even a gas price spike probably wouldn't hurt them, especially with hybrid and plug-ins on their way. 

17 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I hope the CUV craze dies out... kind of tired of all the appliances.

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't really expect it to die out any time soon. CUVs get too close of fuel economy to their similar cars now that even a gas price spike probably wouldn't hurt them, especially with hybrid and plug-ins on their way. 

I actually agree with CCAP41, that with plug-in hybrids and EVs that the CUV craze is not going anywhere but we could see the death of most cars and traditional SUVs as people move to a Lifestyle CUV that better meets their needs.

As OEMs move to a global platform and as we move away from ICE auto's, I can see a platform that you just choose the type of cab you want that then gets connected to the skateboard type platform and boom you have your auto done.

Auto assembly as seen in the Movie MInority Report is the future of where we are heading.

On 8/21/2018 at 1:29 PM, dfelt said:

 

I actually agree with CCAP41, that with plug-in hybrids and EVs that the CUV craze is not going anywhere but we could see the death of most cars and traditional SUVs as people move to a Lifestyle CUV that better meets their needs.

As OEMs move to a global platform and as we move away from ICE auto's, I can see a platform that you just choose the type of cab you want that then gets connected to the skateboard type platform and boom you have your auto done.

Auto assembly as seen in the Movie MInority Report is the future of where we are heading.

 

I can't wait.  I will be glad when all automakers have two platforms: one BOF and one unibody.  That would solve a whole lot of problems and radically reduce costs.