Spying: Cadillac CTS In Europe

Yay!

Looks good so far. Clearly bigger than current. I'm glad it has some sort of deck length, at least. The taillights look like they're faired in tight, like the last-gen Eldorado. I am hoping for a continuation of the current, mini-fin blade style Cadillac lights. I know they're dummies on the prototype. Interesting to see the grille backing before the chrome overlay is attached, you can really see the actual air intake part of the grille.

I am very excited over all, but I do have one Item I hate and it is the same Item I have found on BMW and MB. The Rear Door Design.

The Point of the way the door flares back makes it a wide door like the old camero's that when opened you would ding everyone. I see that point on the rear door being the first place to loose paint and get bent up. I see no reason to have it that way.

It does look bigger which makes me fear we have STS part 2 coming, but even Cadillac can't be that dumb to repeat that mistake. The grille looks big like an Audi grille, not really a fan of massive front grilles, but maybe the final product will be more like the current CTS size grille. Looks like a fairly evolutionary design though.

It does look bigger which makes me fear we have STS part 2 coming, but even Cadillac can't be that dumb to repeat that mistake. The grille looks big like an Audi grille, not really a fan of massive front grilles, but maybe the final product will be more like the current CTS size grille. Looks like a fairly evolutionary design though.

Yes it looks a bit bigger, but this is needed. If the ATS is to compete against the BMW 3 series and MB 300 series, that leaves the CTS to compete against BMW 5 series and Mercedes 400 series I believe. This leaves a new bigger car to compete against the BMW 7 series and MB 500 series for the future.

Exciting time for Cadillac as they finally get their quality of amazing driving machines in order.

I like to think they are right sizing this for the market.GM often tries to set the class size only to be left as the odd one out as either too large or too small to compete on equal ground.

The key here is while the car may grow in size it will either lose weight or not change much with the Alpha under it.

As for the styling they are using the type that Lutz' s set while he was there full time. It is still very much A & S but with out the very hard lines that gave it that full on Oragami look. While some liked it other found it polarizing in not a good way. I think the ATS shows they have hit a good medium ground that should still appeal to the A & S fans while drawing in new fans that felt the hard edges were too much.

The one thing we all need to understand is this car is going to evolve into a little more Luxury roll but will still not be of a boating nature as the STS fell into. Cadillac is working hard to match and beat BMW in size and content so I would expect this car to be nothing less than similar in size and performance to the 5 series. The Omega will fill the 7 series void and may even supass it.

What will be telling are the models based on these cars. The ATS coupe sounds to be on track again vs what was reported. Also what will they do with the CTS. The things they may do could be interesting.

I was reading a comparison between the current CTS-v and new M5 in Road & Track last night...IIRC, the current CTS is only slightly smaller than the new 5 series..maybe 3-4 inches in length, 2 inches in width, 2 inches in wheelbase. But it's about 300 pounds lighter...not sure what the numbers are for a 6 cyl version.

It does look bigger which makes me fear we have STS part 2 coming, but even Cadillac can't be that dumb to repeat that mistake.

You mean by increasing its size to match the 5-series and E-class?

I was reading a comparison between the current CTS-v and new M5 in Road & Track last night...IIRC, the current CTS is only slightly smaller than the new 5 series..maybe 3-4 inches in length, 2 inches in width, 2 inches in wheelbase. But it's about 300 pounds lighter...not sure what the numbers are for a 6 cyl version.

Here are the numbers:

2012 BMW 535i: 4090 lbs

2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6: 3920 lbs

Difference: 170 lbs

2012 BMW 535i xDrive: 4233 lbs

2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 AWD: 4118 lbs

Difference: 115 lbs

I was reading a comparison between the current CTS-v and new M5 in Road & Track last night...IIRC, the current CTS is only slightly smaller than the new 5 series..maybe 3-4 inches in length, 2 inches in width, 2 inches in wheelbase. But it's about 300 pounds lighter...not sure what the numbers are for a 6 cyl version.

Here are the numbers:

2012 BMW 535i: 4090 lbs

2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6: 3920 lbs

Difference: 170 lbs

2012 BMW 535i xDrive: 4233 lbs

2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 AWD: 4118 lbs

Difference: 115 lbs

IIRC, the M5 was about 45xx and the CTS-v was 42xx..

really does look bland to me. But admittedly not much detail.

The new ATS front end has a real nice sculpting to it, this looks way to monoform / typical midsize sedan / generic

According to Car and Driver numbers, 2013 M5 is 4387 lbs, and the 2012 CTS-V is 4220 lbs. The 5-series with and height are within a half inch of the CTS, the 5-series has 3.5 inches more in the wheelbase and 2 inches more overall length compared to the CTS. But I think the 5-series has gotten a bit big, although it still splits the difference between the 3 and 7.

The current CTS on wheelbase, height, width and length is within 0.5 inches in every direction of a Mercedes E-class. The E-class is the sales champion, it's a good size car, no reason for the CTS to get bigger, it is already the same size as the heart of the segment.

And for whatever it is worth, the CTS is already about an inch longer than the Lexus GS, though smaller than the Infiniti M37.

^ This is what I've said since talk first began about the 3G CTS; it's ALREADY the perfect size to go against the 5/E siblings.

It should not grow in size externally at all.

CTS doesn't need more exterior size, more interior room would be nice though. The car needs to get better, not bigger. Cadillac used to always try to do that bigger = more luxurious idea, that doesn't work anymore.

really does look bland to me. But admittedly not much detail.

The new ATS front end has a real nice sculpting to it, this looks way to monoform / typical midsize sedan / generic

Well then the camo is working

Let them uncover it and add the trim and it will transform.

I also expect it to grow but only in a few inches here and there. Cadillac tried to match the 3 size with the ATS and I expect that is all they will do with the CTS vs the 5. They have to give the ATS some room as two nearly same size cars with one cheaper would really hurt CTS sales.

ATS is 182.8 inches long and the CTS is 191.3. There is already a gap there. If they want to go to a 10 inch difference to 192.8 I am sure no one would notice, but any bigger than that and the CTS is getting too big. It is still a sports sedan.

192 is 5 meters? they can't go over 5 meters.

regfootball, on , said:

really does look bland to me. But admittedly not much detail.

The new ATS front end has a real nice sculpting to it, this looks way to monoform / typical midsize sedan / generic

Well then the camo is working

Let them uncover it and add the trim and it will transform.

I also expect it to grow but only in a few inches here and there. Cadillac tried to match the 3 size with the ATS and I expect that is all they will do with the CTS vs the 5. They have to give the ATS some room as two nearly same size cars with one cheaper would really hurt CTS sales.

ATS has nice power bulge and lowered fenders, lots of details. The Camo shots on the CTS really at this time seem just a little plain in comparo to how nice the ATS was sculpted.

@ reg - that's what camo is supposed to do: hide the details

192 is 5 meters? they can't go over 5 meters.

regfootball, on , said:

really does look bland to me. But admittedly not much detail.

The new ATS front end has a real nice sculpting to it, this looks way to monoform / typical midsize sedan / generic

Well then the camo is working

Let them uncover it and add the trim and it will transform.

I also expect it to grow but only in a few inches here and there. Cadillac tried to match the 3 size with the ATS and I expect that is all they will do with the CTS vs the 5. They have to give the ATS some room as two nearly same size cars with one cheaper would really hurt CTS sales.

ATS has nice power bulge and lowered fenders, lots of details. The Camo shots on the CTS really at this time seem just a little plain in comparo to how nice the ATS was sculpted.

Give it time and the details will appear.

We go throught this on every camo car with incomplete interior. I remember others saying the same thing on the Malibu and coming Impala.

Since the 2014 CTS will be on Alpha rather than Sigma, what are the advantages of the new platform over the now-deprecated Sigma? Will Alpha spread beyond the CTS and 2014 Corvette?

Since the 2014 CTS will be on Alpha rather than Sigma, what are the advantages of the new platform over the now-deprecated Sigma? Will Alpha spread beyond the CTS and 2014 Corvette?

The Corvette won't be on Alpha...the ATS is Alpha, the next Camaro will be Alpha...

192 is 5 meters? they can't go over 5 meters.

192 inches is 4877mm (Euro BMW 5-Series is 4899mm long; Euro E-Class is 4868mm long - both pretty much on the 192in mark). Cadillac won't go over that length (well, maybe by an inch, but not more than that). The almost 10 inch gap to the ATS is more than enough (and emulates BMW and MB).

I would not be suprised to see another Alpha for Buick or Chevy down the road. For right now the ATS, CTS and Camaro are the only ones we know about.

There was talk about the Corvette at one point but it was never centered on the C7. Now they are already working on the C8 too but it is too early to tell if the Alpha or parts of it would come into play as I would thing they are just in the first stages of their plans. At that point they are normally looking at many things and most never happen.

Since the 2014 CTS will be on Alpha rather than Sigma, what are the advantages of the new platform over the now-deprecated Sigma? Will Alpha spread beyond the CTS and 2014 Corvette?

The advantages of Alpha over Sigma:

Lighter weight at the same physical size.

Broader range of sizes, can scale down to at least the size of the Chevrolet 130R concept and can size up to E-class size at least.

Wide range of engine options... basically anything that GM makes other than duramax can go in here.

ATS has nice power bulge and lowered fenders, lots of details. The Camo shots on the CTS really at this time seem just a little plain in comparo to how nice the ATS was sculpted.

I actually think the ATS looks a bit boring and a bit too like a Chevy. It just doesn't look all that expensive to me. I actually hope the CTS is far less plain and actually more aggressive looking than the ATS. ATS just isn't exciting to look at. The current CTS looks chunky and blocky to me, I hope they can streamline and and make it more athletic looking.

ATS has nice power bulge and lowered fenders, lots of details. The Camo shots on the CTS really at this time seem just a little plain in comparo to how nice the ATS was sculpted.

I actually think the ATS looks a bit boring and a bit too like a Chevy. It just doesn't look all that expensive to me. I actually hope the CTS is far less plain and actually more aggressive looking than the ATS. ATS just isn't exciting to look at. The current CTS looks chunky and blocky to me, I hope they can streamline and and make it more athletic looking.

Have you even seen a ATS in person?

I hope for a Code130R in addition to a Camaro. Code can have 2.5L base and 2.0t as top option. Camaro might start with 2.0t and go up to the new V8. Camaro is just too expensive to start, there needs to be a little brother to the Camaro that would appeal to a younger and/or poorer (like me) customer. Also, Code could spawn other bodystyles, allowing the Camaro to remain true to itself (for example a Nomad or El Camino variant).

Has the price of the Camaro gone up? I haven't priced them lately, but the way I had (base with steelies) they were at 24k.

I think they baseline at around $23.5k. Code could start at $18k, topping out at around $27k or below, with a cap on expensive features, with Camaro going up into ZL1 territory at the top. There is room there.

Has the price of the Camaro gone up? I haven't priced them lately, but the way I had (base with steelies) they were at 24k.

Nope. I just built my Camaro again. $24,445 msrp exactly the way I'd want it and then $500 rebate.

Base 1LS with one option: white hockey stripe. Hardly the 45th Anniversary car in your profile pic.

Exactly. That's all I'd want in the car. It has bluetooth and XM. I'm good.

I'd be down with that, except those rims. I know they echo the '70s rim design, but I've never liked either one.

I'd like to see an option for the steel wheels to be body color, like some of the Rallys and Z28 wheels were back then.

me, on the camaro, i'd want the v6 6 speed, bluetooth and XM. either red, white, yellow or black. Alum wheels. Moonroof so the interior did not feel like a tomb.

I think the Alpha Camaro is a long ways off. The current design is too good and too desirable for them not to milk it for 10 years. I would like to see an all new dash soon.

I'd like to see an option for the steel wheels to be body color, like some of the Rallys and Z28 wheels were back then.

Get some body color spray paint and go to town.

me, on the camaro, i'd want the v6 6 speed, bluetooth and XM. either red, white, yellow or black. Alum wheels. Moonroof so the interior did not feel like a tomb.

I think the Alpha Camaro is a long ways off. The current design is too good and too desirable for them not to milk it for 10 years. I would like to see an all new dash soon.

Not going to happen. Unless Delayed the new Camaro is expected 2015.

The weight loss of the new car will be a God send to this car as it will not only improve Acceleration, to a greater degree handling and braking. It will become a true 3 dimentional car. Mix in the Magnetic Suspension and it will clearly be a car that will over shadow the new Subaru, Scion and the future Mustang unless Ford can perfect a better suspension package that they have just started on.

The new Camaro will shadow the ATS with engines like the 2.5 base and then a Turbo Eco on to the Turbo V6 and then the V8. Look for the V8 to be in only the most expensice model.

I do not see another coupe in the Chevy line up and if it was it would not be performance related. I think your 130 R was a hint at where the Camaro was going. Not so much in styling but size and driveline. GM has no use for two performance coupes that would be based on the same platform. Better to move it to Buick and do a coupe that would offer performance and more luxury. Something with a more Audi like flavor. Say like replace the Regal with a Alpha based coupe since the Verano has moved so close to the present Regal.

booooooooooooo

NOT easy to engineer a 4-pass 2-dr when everything is getting tighter & tighter. Change things to being a 2-seater and it's an instant niche vehicle.

NOT easy to engineer a 4-pass 2-dr when everything is getting tighter & tighter. Change things to being a 2-seater and it's an instant niche vehicle.

It also is not easy to sell multiple coupes based on the same chassis under the same brand anymore.

Just watch how the Subaru and Scion will fight for the same buyers with there new coupes. Funny how no one is bashing them for badge engineering like they did the F body.

Just watch how the Subaru and Scion will fight for the same buyers with there new coupes. Funny how no one is bashing them for badge engineering like they did the F body.

I don't even care enough about a couple of $25k cars with gutless engines to even bother bashing them for the badge engineering. The interiors on both are poor also.

Just watch how the Subaru and Scion will fight for the same buyers with there new coupes. Funny how no one is bashing them for badge engineering like they did the F body.

I don't even care enough about a couple of $25k cars with gutless engines to even bother bashing them for the badge engineering. The interiors on both are poor also.

This is not about what you think but about the media that trashes GM but lets Toyota get away with doing the same thing.

It looks like someone taped the bloody London Times all over it...looks bigger, we'll wait & see