Spying: Cadillac CT6 Gets Some Escala

Cool  

Looking forward to it....but I still want a modern Riviera and  full size two door Cadillac convertible.

I am really, really excited about this news. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, but I'm just itching for an escala-based design refresh on this car. It's the ONLY THING holding the model back, IMO.

9 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

I am really, really excited about this news. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, but I'm just itching for an escala-based design refresh on this car. It's the ONLY THING holding the model back, IMO.

You typed these words straight from my keyboard.

I think this will help, the CT6 now looks a little droopy and boring in the front, this refresh seems to have a more powerful look to it, from what can be seen under the camo.   I don't like the headlights pulled back over the front wheels, so maybe this will fix that.

I wouldn't change the look much at all; 'CT6 customers love the styling, which is why it's outselling the 7-series 2:1 now".

Nice!

21 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Looking forward to it....but I still want a modern Riviera and  full size two door Cadillac convertible.

Buick has the Cascada now.  The problem with your idea of resurrecting the late Riviera and a Cadillac equivalent is this: coupe and convertible sales are in the tank.  Where are you going to find the sales?  MB and BMW are having a hard time selling their convertibles already.

^ And this is the popular armchair fallacy RE the industry; 'Cadillac is hurting for volume because they don't have a convertible and a large coupe' ~ they never were huge contributors; no one has ever bought a Brand X sedan just because there is a Brand X convertible.

Cadillac volume is relatively low because they have a small catalog, and frankly, I think that's where Cadillac wants to be- around 200K in U.S. sales. But the idea that a sedan or CUV buyer won't buy one because another model he DOESN'T want ISN'T there is illogical.

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ And this is the popular armchair fallacy RE the industry; 'Cadillac is hurting for volume because they don't have a convertible and a large coupe' ~ they never were huge contributors; no one has ever bought a Brand X sedan just because there is a Brand X convertible.

Cadillac volume is relatively low because they have a small catalog, and frankly, I think that's where Cadillac wants to be- around 200K in U.S. sales. But the idea that a sedan or CUV buyer won't buy one because another model he DOESN'T want ISN'T there is illogical.

The only problem with that is that the CTS coupe was 30% of CTS sales. Yes, I do believe that Cadillac needs to bring the CTS(5?) coupe back.

4 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Buick has the Cascada now.  The problem with your idea of resurrecting the late Riviera and a Cadillac equivalent is this: coupe and convertible sales are in the tank.  Where are you going to find the sales?  MB and BMW are having a hard time selling their convertibles already.

This is more "I would like to own one" rather than "they should build one...."

Car makers would go broke in a hurry building cars to my taste...

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ And this is the popular armchair fallacy RE the industry; 'Cadillac is hurting for volume because they don't have a convertible and a large coupe' ~ they never were huge contributors; no one has ever bought a Brand X sedan just because there is a Brand X convertible.

Cadillac volume is relatively low because they have a small catalog, and frankly, I think that's where Cadillac wants to be- around 200K in U.S. sales. But the idea that a sedan or CUV buyer won't buy one because another model he DOESN'T want ISN'T there is illogical.

Cadillac sales are hurting because they don't have 5 crossovers.  Plain and simple.  They could make the CT6 have 500 hp, get 100 miles per gallon and sell it for $25,000 and the Toyota RAV4 would outsell it 5 to 1.  The enthusiasts want the sports car, the convertible, the sport sedan, etc.  But the masses just want a homogenized  box on wheels.

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The only problem with that is that the CTS coupe was 30% of CTS sales. Yes, I do believe that Cadillac needs to bring the CTS(5?) coupe back.

Cadillac needs a coupe and convertible for sure.  You can't be a luxury brand without it, even if they sell 5,000 a year, who cares.  It looks good in an advertisement and draws people in.  Plus they can build it off an existing platform, existing powertrain, it isn't all that hart do stamp some new body panels.  Chevy makes the Corvette, brands need that one special car, even though crossovers are what pays all the bills.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The only problem with that is that the CTS coupe was 30% of CTS sales. Yes, I do believe that Cadillac needs to bring the CTS(5?) coupe back.

IIRC: 27%. Regardless... and I'm not at all saying I would not love to see another killer CTS/5 coupe... I'm saying no one shopping for a sedan from Brand X will NOT buy simply because there is NO coupe version. Coupes don't sell sedans (and coupes don't sell), but I still stop & stare when I see one of those CTS coupes (in invariably impeccible condition).

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac needs a coupe and convertible for sure.  You can't be a luxury brand without it, even if they sell 5,000 a year, who cares.  It looks good in an advertisement and draws people in.  Plus they can build it off an existing platform, existing powertrain, it isn't all that hart do stamp some new body panels.  Chevy makes the Corvette, brands need that one special car, even though crossovers are what pays all the bills.

Cadillac needs the coupe, but I doubt a convertible will make a difference. The days of convertibles are very limited is needed at all especially with the increase in skin cancer. 

You can be a luxury auto maker without convertibles.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Cadillac needs the coupe, but I doubt a convertible will make a difference. The days of convertibles are very limited is needed at all especially with the increase in skin cancer. 

You can be a luxury auto maker without convertibles.

Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi all make a convertible.  Chevy has 2 convertibles, Buick has 1, yet Cadillac has none?

SO you're saying that if Rolls didn't sell the 200-some converts they do a year, that they would NOT be a luxury brand??

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi all make a convertible.  Chevy has 2 convertibles, Buick has 1, yet Cadillac has none?

So you're saying without a Convertible, Cadillac is not a luxury brand!

So then Apple is not a computer company as they have no Servers.

So then Boeing is not an Airplane company as they do not make small individual planes.

Paccar, owner of Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks is not a truck company, Only a Semi company or Dump truck company.

Do you see the irrational thinking in your statement?

23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So you're saying without a Convertible, Cadillac is not a luxury brand!

So then Apple is not a computer company as they have no Servers.

So then Boeing is not an Airplane company as they do not make small individual planes.

Paccar, owner of Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks is not a truck company, Only a Semi company or Dump truck company.

Do you see the irrational thinking in your statement?

I am not saying that Cadillac isn't a luxury car brand, but when a luxury buyer is out there looking to spend big money on a sports car or convertible, Cadillac doesn't have anything.  It is hard to build status as an elite brand, without elite product.

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I am not saying that Cadillac isn't a luxury car brand, but when a luxury buyer is out there looking to spend big money on a sports car or convertible, Cadillac doesn't have anything.  It is hard to build status as an elite brand, without elite product.

Cadillac is doing just fine actually.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

SO you're saying that if Rolls didn't sell the 200-some converts they do a year, that they would NOT be a luxury brand??

Asking specific questions just moves the goal posts.

34 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So you're saying without a Convertible, Cadillac is not a luxury brand!

So then Apple is not a computer company as they have no Servers.

So then Boeing is not an Airplane company as they do not make small individual planes.

Paccar, owner of Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks is not a truck company, Only a Semi company or Dump truck company.

Do you see the irrational thinking in your statement?

You might as well say that my woodworking machines are not woodworking machines because I only build guitars and furniture, not Banjos and Bird houses.

While a convertible would be nice for Cadillac, Cadillac's fate certainly doesn't come close to hinging on that.

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

While a convertible would be nice for Cadillac, Cadillac's fate certainly doesn't come close to hinging on that.

It doesn't but if Chevy said they were cancelling the Corvette convertible or the Corvette entirely due to low sales, there would be outrage.  And Chevy's fate doesn't hinge on the Corvette either, but there is a reason they still make it.

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It doesn't but if Chevy said they were cancelling the Corvette convertible or the Corvette entirely due to low sales, there would be outrage.  And Chevy's fate doesn't hinge on the Corvette either, but there is a reason they still make it.

It has been 41 plus years since the last full size Cadillac convertible.  Since they had convertibles in their lineup for seventy years before that I am assuming they know how to build one. If they felt they needed one in the lineup they easily could have added one.

Acura does not currently build a convertible, nor does Lexus...

26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

It has been 41 plus years since the last full size Cadillac convertible.

To nitpick, the 1985 Eldorado convertible was the same length as the recent S-class... so one could call that "full-size" and then say "32 years"...

22 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

It has been 41 plus years since the last full size Cadillac convertible.  Since they had convertibles in their lineup for seventy years before that I am assuming they know how to build one. If they felt they needed one in the lineup they easily could have added one.

Acura does not currently build a convertible, nor does Lexus...

Acura is a low end luxury brand and Lexus is boring.   Lexus lacks the guts to really go big, even with the LC500, there could be more power there.  They did the LFA, but even that needed more torque and after that 500 unit model run they seem to have no desire to do another sports car.  Lexus is a brand that could be doing so much better because they have reliability and reputation, but they have ugly styling and super out dated engines.  Lexus should have a 100% turbo charged line up with a hybrid version of every model they sell.  They are close on the hybrid front, but the most powerful Lexus is 471 hp, Mercedes has like 20 models over 500 hp.  

Lexus is a brand that Cadillac should be able to steal a lot of business off of.  Cadillac can make quiet and smooth riding vehicles, throw a ton of hybrid crossovers at them.  Lexus is weak in performance, Cadillac can easily beat them there.  

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi all make a convertible.  Chevy has 2 convertibles, Buick has 1, yet Cadillac has none?

Which falls under the heading of "No one cares but you".

Just stop the silliness man.

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

To nitpick, the 1985 Eldorado convertible was the same length as the recent S-class... so one could call that "full-size" and then say "32 years"...

Fair enough...

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Acura is a low end luxury brand and Lexus is boring.   Lexus lacks the guts to really go big, even with the LC500, there could be more power there.  They did the LFA, but even that needed more torque and after that 500 unit model run they seem to have no desire to do another sports car.  Lexus is a brand that could be doing so much better because they have reliability and reputation, but they have ugly styling and super out dated engines.  Lexus should have a 100% turbo charged line up with a hybrid version of every model they sell.  They are close on the hybrid front, but the most powerful Lexus is 471 hp, Mercedes has like 20 models over 500 hp.  

Lexus is a brand that Cadillac should be able to steal a lot of business off of.  Cadillac can make quiet and smooth riding vehicles, throw a ton of hybrid crossovers at them.  Lexus is weak in performance, Cadillac can easily beat them there.  

All 20 vehicles they have over 500 horsepower are low selling vehicles.  Chrysler builds the Demon with over 800...but it is a low selling car.

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Which falls under the heading of "No one cares but you".

 

Just stop the silliness man.

He will be on the war path about the satin finish Cadillac uses on the seat belt retractors next.

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Lexus is weak in performance, Cadillac can easily beat them there.  

... because everyone wants to go drag racing in a Lexus...

4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Fair enough...

All 20 vehicles they have over 500 horsepower are low selling vehicles.  Chrysler builds the Demon with over 800...but it is a low selling car.

Low selling is better than no selling.   Mercedes is on pace to sell 30,000 AMG vehicles in the USA alone this year.  So that is pretty good.  At least someone is pushing performance, Lexus surely isn't.

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

... because everyone wants to go drag racing in a Lexus...

Handling, braking, chassis tuning, these are areas where Cadillac can beat the Camry platform Lexus line up.  Horsepower also, at almost any level, Lexus still has that 3.5 V6 from 2006 in most of their product, they should have killed that thing years ago.

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Low selling is better than no selling.   Mercedes is on pace to sell 30,000 AMG vehicles in the USA alone this year.  So that is pretty good.  At least someone is pushing performance, Lexus surely isn't.

Handling, braking, chassis tuning, these are areas where Cadillac can beat the Camry platform Lexus line up.  Horsepower also, at almost any level, Lexus still has that 3.5 V6 from 2006 in most of their product, they should have killed that thing years ago.

They are printing money selling cars with existing technology. Lincoln did the same thing for decades with the town car.

Does anybody know how many Cadillac buyers were conquest sales from MB or BMW or Lexus etc. this model year?

The LCF will arrive soon enough..

A 471 HP V8 is a good starting point...

The LCF is predicted to have in and around 600 HP...

The Lexus has 1 thing going for it...

GREAT looks!

You may not like predator face, but it works very well with this car.  The BMW 6 Series coupe is gone and I dont think the 8 Series that will be replacing it will do any better. The 1st gen 8 Series was actually not to bad of a car with great looks but it failed in the market place...

The Lexus LC500 will probably wont displace the M-B SL class coupe in sales, but please dont say that Lexus dont have the ballz!

1. The LC500 is actually a concept car that was put into production almost 100% intact from its concept form.

2. You asked for a hi-po version?

Lexus will sell you one pretty soon!

AMG used to mean something. These days it might, but it could also just be a sticker package.

4 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The LCF will arrive soon enough..

A 471 HP V8 is a good starting point...

The LCF is predicted to have in and around 600 HP...

The Lexus has 1 thing going for it...

GREAT looks!

You may not like predator face, but it works very well with this car.  The BMW 6 Series coupe is gone and I dont think the 8 Series that will be replacing it will do any better. The 1st gen 8 Series was actually not to bad of a car with great looks but it failed in the market place...

The Lexus LC500 will probably wont displace the M-B SL class coupe in sales, but please dont say that Lexus dont have the ballz!

1. The LC500 is actually a concept car that was put into production almost 100% intact from its concept form.

2. You asked for a hi-po version?

Lexus will sell you one pretty soon!

And aside from any desire to argue with my opponent from Pittsburgh...I would take the Lexus eleventy billion to one over a Benz... 

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

AMG used to mean something. These days it might, but it could also just be a sticker package.

Indeed...and personally I cannot warm up to them...

15 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Does anybody know how many Cadillac buyers were conquest sales from MB or BMW or Lexus etc. this model year?

I contacted my friend in Cadillac PR.  He doesn't have the percentage of conquest sales handy, but he did say this:

"our top inflow rates come from BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, and Audi (in that order)"

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I contacted my friend in Cadillac PR.  He doesn't have the percentage of conquest sales handy, but he did say this:

"our top inflow rates come from BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, and Audi (in that order)"

Given BMW's fall from grace, and how static and seemingly lifeless Mercedes Benz design is, I can really see that.

Mercedes, tho they stamp the same nose on everything, at least looks contemporary IMO.
BMW is just incredibly dated. "Tonight we're gonna party like it's two-zero-zero-five!"

The Lexus has 1 thing going for it... GREAT looks!

You may like predator face, but that doesn't mean it works AT ALL with this car.
In fact the WHOLE THING is 1 thin cracker away from being designed by Lego.

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Mercedes, tho they stamp the same nose on everything, at least looks contemporary IMO.
BMW is just incredibly dated. "Tonight we're gonna party like it's two-zero-zero-five!"

 

 

You may like predator face, but that doesn't mean it works AT ALL with this car.
In fact the WHOLE THING is 1 thin cracker away from being designed by Lego.

I find the whole luxury segment really depressing FWIW.  Mercedes looks contemporary but so does some of the lesser IKEA furniture. BMW used to be one of my favorite car companies, they have fallen to one of my least favorite.

I am nowhere near as enamored with Cadillac as Cmicassa, but they are a ray of sunshine in a really dark world...looking at Infinity products pretty much makes to want to move somewhere that cars are not allowed...absolutely god awful....

As far as a thin cracker away....I think the Lexus proves that a communion wafer can be laced with LSD quite effectively.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Mercedes, tho they stamp the same nose on everything, at least looks contemporary IMO.
BMW is just incredibly dated. "Tonight we're gonna party like it's two-zero-zero-five!"

 

 

You may like predator face, but that doesn't mean it works AT ALL with this car.
In fact the WHOLE THING is 1 thin cracker away from being designed by Lego.

Im gonna argue with you here.

Balthy...

This car...the LC500...

It my not have what YOU find attractive, but that does not mean it don't look good.

Beauty is skin deep.

I will assume and say you like this car from Chryco...

The Lexus is not far from having this style it its design...

And why do you use Lego as your argument?

To further demean the look of the LC500?

Look at those fenders from the Mopar...

Technically, if you wanna use Lego as an argument, technically, one could try to pry those fenders off with their bare hands and it would seem like they would come off and one could just go to a Lego bin and just pop in another fender...

No; the '61 Plymouth is ugly, there's no arguing that. It's funky bold, but I don't think it's good looking at the same time and I'd never buy one. '60 is a little better, still wouldn't buy one. I'm more of a '57-61 DeSoto man.

But you do realize the inverse of your statement :
>>It may not have what YOU find attractive, but that does not mean it don't look good.<<
is ALSO true :
It may be what YOU find attractive, but that does not mean it looks good.

Right? I mean; RIGHT??

- - - - -
The lexus LC is a stellar example of poor design, automotively. A lot of fussy, disharmonious details that don't work on their own, certainly don't work together, and frankly, are completely arbitrary. Then there is the surface planing, especially in profile- no cohesive approach, just disharmonious intersecting edges. The envelope is 'broken' at the greenhouse.
I'm all for something fresh in automotive design –God knows we're starved for it– but at the same time I'd like to see 'fresh' paired with 'great'. IMO however, it's all been done before.

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I contacted my friend in Cadillac PR.  He doesn't have the percentage of conquest sales handy, but he did say this:

"our top inflow rates come from BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, and Audi (in that order)"

Well most luxury brand buyers are coming from another luxury brand.  What about their top outflow?  

Year to date, Cadillac is up .9%  Audi is up 6.5%,  BMW is down 3.6%, Lexus is down 13.1%, Infiniti is up 24%, Mercedes is down 1%.  Volume wise, Cadillac is 7th in the American market.

I'd think Lexus would be the easiest for Cadillac to steal off of, especially with the slew of FWD crossovers that Cadillac is going to position directly against Lexus.  Also keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW have sold the most luxury cars the past 10 years, with Lexus in 3rd, so it makes sense that that is their biggest conquest, just on sheer numbers there are more of them out there.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Well most luxury brand buyers are coming from another luxury brand.  What about their top outflow?  

Year to date, Cadillac is up .9%  Audi is up 6.5%,  BMW is down 3.6%, Lexus is down 13.1%, Infiniti is up 24%, Mercedes is down 1%.  Volume wise, Cadillac is 7th in the American market.

I'd think Lexus would be the easiest for Cadillac to steal off of, especially with the slew of FWD crossovers that Cadillac is going to position directly against Lexus.  Also keep in mind that Mercedes and BMW have sold the most luxury cars the past 10 years, with Lexus in 3rd, so it makes sense that that is their biggest conquest, just on sheer numbers there are more of them out there.

How would the company that didn't get the sale know it didn't get the sale?

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How would the company that didn't get the sale know it didn't get the sale?

Perhaps through data mining Google Analytics and search traffic..

Companies know where sales are going.  They may not know exact numbers, but in Cadillac's case they could look at other brands conquest data or market share changes, etc.