Rumorpile: Yes To ATS Coupe, Uncertain On CTS Coupe, No To Wagons

Interesting story, NO to a wagon makes me think the current mgmt has no long term plans for Europe. Yes to the coupe is a given, I see them everywhere here in Seattle and people I talk with just love them. The High Tech crowd at least here has pretty much gone away from the M3 to the CTS Coupe V. Americans are waking up to the quality of American Auto's. Talked with a cousin who had a Tahoe and no problems, got convinced by a coworker to trade it in on a toyota Sequoia and she has had nothing but problems with it and seen no better gas mileage. She told me she is waiting till her second year and then going to trade it back in on another Tahoe or maybe the Yukon. Since other than gas mileage, she had no problems with he Tahoe compared to the Sequoia.

I think they need a coupe in both ATS and CTS version, I can also see a Wagon on ATS. This might be better for Europe if they do not do it on CTS, but I actually do not see much dollars spent on going from a CTS sedan to a wagon.

Well, neither C&D nor Edmunds have any authority on the subject. Their speculation is as good as yours or mine.

As far as Europe goes, a CTS Wagon is not as important as a CTS Diesel or an ATS Hatchback.

ATS and CTS need sedan and coupe body styles. BMW and Mercedes do a mid-size coupe. ATS is a given since the Lexus, Infiniti and Audi have coupes, you can't be sedan only, otherwise you're Lincoln or Acura.

Well, neither C&D nor Edmunds have any authority on the subject. Their speculation is as good as yours or mine.

As far as Europe goes, a CTS Wagon is not as important as a CTS Diesel or an ATS Hatchback.

True, Diesel is a requirement and I think Hybrid is going to be. I think a SRX built on the VOLT hybrid system would do very well here and in Europe.

It will be interesting to see where they go styling wise w/ an ATS coupe...whether they go for a more sedan-like roofline or go for fastback drama ala the current CTS coupe. I'd also love to see a high drama 4dr coupe---a 4dr w/ the fastback roofline like the current CTS coupe and frameless door glass..

Edited April 8, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

Disappointing.

The wagon is the only CTS I like.

I can believe the 7% take rate on the wagons. I had not seen one for near 6 months till last weekend and I saw two non V models. GM would be foolish to go this one again before they enter Europe again.

As for the Coupe the ATS would be the best place to start. But I think it is a good shot at seeing a CTS coupe later on. They right now from what I saw are holding a 25% share of CTS sales and that is pretty good these days for a coupe. I think that this could not be ignored.

Better a CTS coupe vs. an expensive 3rd failed attempt at a 2 seater again. They could easily move more coupes and a possible 4 seat convertible much easier.

I would love to see a large coupe done on the LTS before the CTS. I loved the photos of the coupe GM passes around a little while ago of a coupe. It could compete much better with the Bentley and they would have more room to so more with the lower volume at its price point.

I'd love to see a proper coupe in CTS, ATS, or the new Omega - but the current CTS coupe is just lousy-looking.

Camino I have to actually disagree with you as I love the look of the current coupe and clearly so do many others.

That's ok, we are all entitled to an opinion.

I find the CTS coupe to be ugly as sin.

If, no when a new CTS coupe arrives, hopefully the increased size will allow room for a decently delineated deck line that is not higher than the driver's sight line. Egregious.

Coupes are all about style for the most part. If they become too practical then they just become a 2 door sedan.

I like the CTS coupe. I hear few say it is ugly. If anything I hear more positive things from people who are not what you would call Cadillac people.

Diesel is important, more than just about anything if they ever want cred in Europe.

Hybrid, not sure.

A wagon will contribute least to growing Cadillac.

I like the logic of a CTS coupe over an XLR. If an XLR is done right, though, it would have huge payoff. Something like a Cien would have huge payoff too.

Something akin to the Panamera down the road would be cool too.

Current CTS coupe is striking, but the bunker interior and limited visibility are a turn off.

To me, an ATS coupe is a given, and I do like the 5 door idea, but I don't think the 5 door would sell a bunch. It would sell more than a wagon though. Could be something distinctive for the marque.

Edited April 9, 2013 by regfootball

Camino I have to actually disagree with you as I love the look of the current coupe and clearly so do many others.

It grew on me...at first I didn't like it because the tail is so high and the deck so short, but now I love the design...

Camino I have to actually disagree with you as I love the look of the current coupe and clearly so do many others.

It grew on me...at first I didn't like it because the tail is so high and the deck so short, but now I love the design...

I thought it might grow on me too ( I really wanted to like it).

It didn't. The more I saw it in person, the less I liked it.

It looks like it was designed by someone who knew hatchbacks, but had never seen a coupe.

As you say, we each have the right to love or hate a style. Hopefully the next CTS Coupe you can learn to love.

Hopefully, it will be good enough to like it automatically.

Well I would rather like it manually, but hey.

Well I would rather like it manually, but hey.

Single Shifter rather than Paddle play?

As far as Europe goes, a CTS Wagon is not as important as a CTS Diesel or an ATS Hatchback.

Judging from the amount of E-Class, 5-Series and A6 wagons I see every day, believe me: it's as important as a diesel (and by diesel I mean a 4-cyl diesel) and perhaps more important than an ATS hatchback.

That said, I think both ATS and CTS should offer a wagon and perhaps the coupe could be marketed separately from the ATS and CTS nameplates.

Edited April 10, 2013 by ZL-1

Europe seems to be the only market that still embraces wagons in comparison to CUV's or mini vans. Probably due to the whole bloody tax thing on engine size, etc.

It's more the size of our streets than the engine size factor: a Tahoe is just too big

It's more the size of our streets than the engine size factor: a Tahoe is just too big

If they would just leave history to the books and rebuild with modern buildings and roads, that would not be a problem.

I don't care why, I'm just glad that Europe creates a continuing market for wagons - at least that gives us a shot at getting one now and then. I despise all CUVs, but would gladly take a wagon with an AWD option in their place (if I had no 4x4 truck or SUV at the time).

Bring on the wagons!

I like wagons...it's too bad Dodge doesn't still offer the Magnum...would love to see a 2nd gen Magnum. I'd rather have a wagon than a weak FWD-based CUV or minivan.

I have a few customers over in Europe that love the SUV's from GM but like stated they can be a pain to get around in over in some towns and villages.

People here just love the idea of sitting higher and the feel of a truck. Even though my Terrain feels like a truck and looks like a truck it is nothing but a tall wagon. Same for the HHR.

I think what really kills the wagon here is the low roof height. I think people learned with minivans the taller roods make for more cargo room and easier use for getting in and out. Cars like the Magnum and CTS are cool but they are very limited compare to the SUV and even many CUV's. People think more practical vs. styling anymore.

Also factor in that in the past in cars like my 63 Galaxie I could carry a sheet of plywood in the trunk. Today most cars can not carry anything much unless it fits the small opening of the trunk.

Like I have said for a long time the markets have shifted and buyers have different wants and needs.

Yeah, but CUVs still suck - they are nothing but tall minivans.

Yeah, but CUVs still suck - they are nothing but tall minivans.

Here I have to totally disagree with you, there are a few CUV's that are just a buch version of a mini van, but most CUV's are far better than a Mini Van any day of the week.

You are both right. They are more than a Chrysler Minivan but they are still pretty much just the next level of advancement. It is a vehicle that appeals to most women and more men than a Minivan.

For a useful thing I find our very versatile and able to do things most cars and wagons could never do but with out the MPG penalty or price of a full size SUV. It is a compromise vehicle.

As much as I like ours I like it being the wife's daily driver as I would not want to drive it daily. I like more handling and performance than it offers. I would not own a HHR if it were not for the SS package. It is the closest thing to a American Mini or GTI.

Love it or hate it the CUV is the dream car of the market and GM has a good selection that is making a hell of a lot of money. Just look at the numbers for the aging Nox and Terrain as it is still selling well with a new one not far off.

The key also to the CUV is often they go for more money than equal sized cars and the profit add up like trucks.

As for the Family wagon it has gone the way of the dinosaur. Automakers love to sell them but time after time most fail outside of Europe and Australia.

The coupe and wagon have suffered from the public wanting cars that are more practical vs. styling. It may owe a lot to the fact that women have influence on 55% of all new auto sales today. They look at things practically not how cool or fun they are unless it is a convertible. Men buy with passion women buy with logic. Men are how cool is this or fun when a women is will this do all the things I need to do in my life. Putting car seats in the back of a CUV are much easier than a coupe or wagon.

Again the market has changed like it or not. Hell it is to the point the number of young males wanting a drivers license has dropped. To me that is insane as we could not wait till we got outs. Today youth are much different than most of us here were. This is why you see 40 year old men looking at Hot Wheels while the kids are looking at video games.

Spending some time with the TSX wagon at the autoshow made me realize how useless it was, when a CRV serves the cargo purpose so much better.

Magnum, different story. Probably the only Chrysler I would consider to own, it's cargo and passenger setup were perfect, right down to the far hinged door.

And then they stopped making it.

I do like the current CTS wagon, but it's not all that huge in the cargo area either. Like the Mazda6 wagon the new one, but no chance of it selling.

To me, a wagon, to have an advantage, has to have a real cargo advantage, like the Caprice / Vista Cruiser wagon. Otherwise, I would prefer a hatch. The mid 00's Mazda6 hatch is really a useful device and not much different looks wise than the sedan. The Buick Regal could have a hatch.

I do make exceptions in the compact class. An Astra wagon and Jetta wagon make a lot of sense. They do maximize cargo. I like all the body styles of the Astra. They should sell them all here.

Automatic, FWD, 4cyl. sedans and CUVs = my version of hell.

I don't care why, I'm just glad that Europe creates a continuing market for wagons - at least that gives us a shot at getting one now and then. I despise all CUVs, but would gladly take a wagon with an AWD option in their place (if I had no 4x4 truck or SUV at the time).

Bring on the wagons!

http://autos.aol.com/article/station-sport-wagon-Volvo-V60-family-truckster/

"Station Wagons Have Vanished; Maybe it's time we bring them back"

In an unintended way, that's a bold statement. Time has shown, at least anecdotally, that Americans have rebelled against the cars of their parents. First, we bucked against the station wagon. Now, we mock the minivan. Will children of the 1990s, as they begin their families, reject SUVs?

If they do, that would be a powerful new course for the market, one that could open the door for the station wagon's triumphant return.

One can hope.

If you want wagons convince the American public by a large margin they want them. Same with Manual transmissions.

Auto makers will build what ever the mainstream wants. As of right now only a handful out of the mainstream wants them. The problem is this is not 1969 anymore.

Edited April 13, 2013 by hyperv6

oh what year is it

Reg hit upon it squarely- the handful of current wagons don't generally offer tremendous, useable cargo room, so, yeah.

Not as much as a SUV or most CUV's

The fact is people like the roof high up to give them much more usable room than was available or is available in most car bases wagons.

People buy SUV's and sedans as they are more usable. Today most buyers are looking more for practical vs. style. Coupe and Wagon sales have gone down ever since the market and buyers have shifted.

You My not like the truth but it is what it is. I own the closest thing Chevy has made to a wagon since the Cobalt wagon and the HHR has sold many more units than they ever would have with a Cobalt wagon. Some bought for the retro styling but many bought because it was a inexpensive reliable vehicle that can haul more than a low roof wagon.

In days gone buy cars were taller and so too were the wagons. As the automobile got shorter and lower it removed much of the ability for larger taller items and space. Wagons became less popular as they were replaced with small minivans that did the job of hauling people and cargo much better.

Even the little Encore from Buick with the seats folded down has a lot of usable space for tall and wide items.

I look at it this way. A auto based wagon has 2 dimensional ability with wide and long where most minivans and SUVs have 3 dimensional ability with wide long and tall. When hauling people just look at a Kingswood estate wagon vs. a Traverse and see which hauls more and which is more people friendly. Granted the car is more stylish but buyers don't seem to care so much anymore. It is sad but the Asians have turned the Americans into looking at the auto as an appliance.

Sheeple.

Sheeple.

No people with different needs, likes and different opinions.

Times have left you and me behind.

Edited April 13, 2013 by hyperv6

Sheeple.

You're right. It's not actual cargo space, it's the trendiness factor of being in something higher up. Most CUVs have terrifically short cargo areas unless you jack the set out, and vertical space is largely useless unless you transport balloons or those oversized stuffed animals. Only way wagons are going to make a major inroad as an alternative to CUVs & the smaller SUVs is to enlarge the cargo space in length & width. They don't have to offer a 10-foot floor space like an old Plymouth Suburban did, but when you open the hatch and see literally 1.5 feet of room... where's the draw? The mid-size sedans, most of which offer some degree of a folding rear seat do 90% of the same thing.

Edited April 14, 2013 by balthazar

One thing is for sure: people in this society are easily led.

If a manufacturer leads them to wagons, they will follow - it's what they do.

Automatic, FWD, 4cyl. sedans and CUVs = my version of hell.

Major car companies, i.e. Toyota, Honda, Ford, and GM love that sort of vehicle.

Automatic, FWD, 4cyl. sedans and CUVs = my version of hell.

Major car companies, i.e. Toyota, Honda, Ford, and GM love that sort of vehicle.

Yes, that's what the masses want. Functional appliances...we have to remember car enthusiasts are maybe only 1-2% of the buying public, most consumers go w/ whatever appliance is top rated by Consumer Reports. That's just the way it is..

Interesting story, NO to a wagon makes me think the current mgmt has no long term plans for Europe. Y

I think the lack of movement on the EU dealership network is a bigger tell there....

Till Europe is on track I expect GM to remain neutral there.

As for people being led I see more enthusiast or what ones that are left getting delusional anymore. They think they have it all figured out but have little business sense or understanding of todays market since they just do not agree with the general publics opinion.

I do not like most of what is out there but understand what is needed and what is wanted by non enthusiast buyers who dominate the market.

Like I said 1959 is over.

Automatic, FWD, 4cyl. sedans and CUVs = my version of hell.

Major car companies, i.e. Toyota, Honda, Ford, and GM love that sort of vehicle.

Only because it makes money and fits into their plans to reach the levels of CAFE they will have to meet.

Sorry to say even the 3 cylinder will become a bigger part of this mix as cars get smaller and lighter.

The imports made a lot of headway in this market not just on quality as they were better but not by much. They made their ground with economy and keeping money in peoples pockets at the pump. These days of the $70 fill ups will only fuel more of this thinking. Pun intended.

Edited April 15, 2013 by hyperv6