Rumorpile: Cadillac's Upcoming 4.2L Twin-Turbo V8 To Appear in Escalade, CTS-V?

The 4.2L TT V8 I suspect is greatly understated at 550 hp / 627 lb-ft of torque. 

I expect the next Escalade to have their normal and at least a V-Sport if not a full blown V edition.

I believe we will see the Escalade with a normal DI V8, then V-Sport with a current TT V8 and the V edition will be the dialed up TT V8 SUV. I also would not be suprised to see this show up in the XT6 or 7 what ever they call it.

As for cars, CT5 and if they keep the CT6 or CT7 or what ever, I expect GM to maximize the return on investment by having it at various power levels in these cars too till they can no longer support them due to customer demand for EVs replace it.

My gut tells me they could push the TT V8 to around 800hp and 1000 lb-ft of torque.

This is entirely hot. I will gladly give up GM trying to be everything to everyone with lots full of cars at deep discount if they can bring me this.  Holy S#!% this thing is lustworthy.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

My gut tells me they could push the TT V8 to around 800hp and 1000 lb-ft of torque.

You know tuners will....where is that hellcat...here kitty kitty kitty....

I assume the C8 will get this engine..

Lmfao if they come out and say.. "JDN came up with that naming scheme, for the trucks it was cool.. But the the CTS, ATS are keeping their names.. Oh.. The CT6 is only being sold in China, but we'll be selling an identical car here as the new XTS" ?

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I assume the C8 will get this engine..

I would assume that is a safe guess.

I think every enthusiast is surprised there hasn't been a V-Sport or true V version of the Escalade already... GM has had plenty of different engines to drop in there then they just need to work on a break and suspension package. It seems like a obvious big money maker. 

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think every enthusiast is surprised there hasn't been a V-Sport or true V version of the Escalade already... GM has had plenty of different engines to drop in there then they just need to work on a break and suspension package. It seems like a obvious big money maker. 

It would really be hot.

Interested to see how the Edge ST does.  Even I am kind of starting to like that a little bit...

35 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

It would really be hot.

Interested to see how the Edge ST does.  Even I am kind of starting to like that a little bit...

From the little I've read on it, it seems like a more powerful Edge Sport.. It isn't exactly "sporty" or "ST" worthy. I also don't think a buyer of an Edge ST really wants a super tight suspension setup. If they did, they probably aren't buying an SUV..or a sporty one at that. 

I think something like that would be perfect for me. "Hello 45k? Where are you?"

55 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

From the little I've read on it, it seems like a more powerful Edge Sport.. It isn't exactly "sporty" or "ST" worthy. I also don't think a buyer of an Edge ST really wants a super tight suspension setup. If they did, they probably aren't buying an SUV..or a sporty one at that. 

I think something like that would be perfect for me. "Hello 45k? Where are you?"

I do like the visual packaging on it...it does not need to be a sports car...just a performance vehicle.

9 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

There is a guy over at GMAuthority who says Cadillac just lost him as a customer because they are going to stop making a big Cadillac.

 

He owns a 2010.. I said 2010.. a 9 year old Cadillac and he says this.. THIS IS HOW IDIOTIC PEOPLE ARE. I responded with:

My name over there is MiatsoCi 

No offense.. but GM/Cadillac built 2 large sedans for U.. for the last 3(2016-2019 CT6) and 6(2013-2019 XTS) years. Both have won gobs of praise. One is literally a superior version of your DTS, while one is a direct competitor to the S550 (3.0LPlatinum CT6) and U still haven’t bought.. maybe.. they just tired of waiting. BTW.. there are still new XTSs and CT6s on the showroom floor til the end of 2019… a year that hasn’t even happened yet.

My name is Cmicasa the GreatXvX.. and I approve this message LOL

 

So let them loose him as a customer. Trying to be everything to everybody all of the time hasn't helped GM. They do not need a car for every buyer...just cars for people willing to pay a reasonable premium for.

Economically it makes no sense to be bottom feeders in any market. But especially cars.

I for one am curious what Cadillac has in store for us.

The reduction in horsepower in favor of the twin-turbo setup still won't be enough for @smk4565... he'll find something wrong with the headliner or the insides of the glovebox.

I still don't buy that the CT6 is being discontinued.  If so, Cadillac is fully to blame for how they have packaged and priced the car.  But apart from that, they have now created the sweet v8 for that car and they will announce either a production move to China or will stage a dramatic PR plant rescue for the car here in the states.  Again, the collateral damage of Cadillac not having a big sedan to me means Cadillac becomes a crossover heavy company with no essence.  Might as well shut it down.  When does Mercedes get rid of the S Class?  Not yet.

Aside from that, you might as well put it in the Escalade.  If they put it in the CT5 or CtS replacement whatever it is, it's a completly useless proposition to the market if they don't give it all wheel drive.  If their plan is to only make it RWD in the CT5 than Cadillac's braintrust is on to the next level of stupidity, surpassing the overall level of GM stupidity for the last 10 years or so.

Read between the lines.... the official line is that the CT6 is no longer going to be produced in North America.  It will remain in production in other countries.

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Read between the lines.... the official line is that the CT6 is no longer going to be produced in North America.  It will remain in production in other countries.

Does that mean that the CT6 (or its replacement) will be imported here from wherever else it is built?

As for the 4,2L TTV8, where was this engine five years ago?  This engine deserves to be MORE than just an option engine for the Escalade or a Corvette.

I'm guessing the CT6 will be imported from China. That's my guess.

If they are killing off cars, then Motor1.com has shown the 15 worst cars that should also die.

https://www.motor1.com/features/282006/worst-selling-cars-trucks-2018/

• Units sold since the start of 2018
• 15th - Audi A7 at 1,959
• 14th - Jaguar XF at 1,944 
• 13th - Jaguar F-Type at 1,925
• 12th - Mercedes-Benz SL-Class at 1,787
• 11th - Mercedes-Benz SLC-Class at 1,692
• 10th - Lexus LC at 1,688
• 9th - Acura RLX at 1,556
• 8th - Jabuar XJ at 1,365
• 7th - Fiat 500L at 1,327
• 6th - Toyota Mirai at 1,263 - Seems crazy to include Hydrogen autos
• 5th - Audi TT at 1,244
• 4th - Smart For Two at 1,054
• 3rd - Audi A8 at 909
• 2nd - Kia K900 at 277
• 1st - Alfa Romeo 4C at 217 units

I would say if Cadillac cannot make a profit on the CT6, then how can any of these auto companies make a profit and all these cars should be killed off for the US.

Everybody is ASSUMING that the supposed discontinued cars don't make a profit. When/where was that ever stated? A vehicle can be 'profitable' yet still not meet the goals of the OEM and be discontinued. Happens all the time.

33 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm guessing the CT6 will be imported from China. That's my guess.

I wonder if we can get it with a side of Moo-shoo pork? 

47 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I wonder if we can get it with a side of Moo-shoo pork? 

Now I'm hungry... 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm guessing the CT6 will be imported from China. That's my guess.

Probably truth but now with tariffs and such, and just image wise I think the top sedan coming from China is problematic. 

I think Cadillac could still manage 30-40k volume on the CT6 a year in the US once the XTS is gone and then realign the trims. 

That would be an excellent approach- discontinue the XTS and pump the CT6 volume up. Put it in another US plant, because I'd never buy a Chinese-built version and I don't think it does Cadillac any favors to import it.
 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

That would be an excellent approach- discontinue the XTS and pump the CT6 volume up. Put it in another US plant, because I'd never buy a Chinese-built version and I don't think it does Cadillac any favors to import it.
 

Problem is.. that only because its GM would anyone know. Seriously.. I've never seen a company that inspires so much press about what it does for Americans.. while at the same times have American openly say how much they hate GM..not even for the cars.. just because.

Either way.. the average American.. if GM were to properly market the vehicle.. hell the way they are currently doing with the XT4.. they could sell 3X what they have been.. As Americans don't really care where the car comes from.. just look at Volvo. 

Sales numbers technically and surprisingly are a lot considering the segment. 

808 per month as of Sept..

vs 681 per month for the 7 Series

 741 for the Lexus LS

284 for the Audi A8 and A7 COMBINED.. (I said the Audi A8+A7 have only sold 2560 units this whole year combined and GM is king the CT6 for selling 7272?)

BTW.. I never could figure out how they expected the CTS or the CT6 to truly show a real un-touched number with the vehicles being so closely aligned in either size or price. The XTS and the CTS we exactly the same price.. while the CT6 and XTS were damn near the same size.. visually the were exactly the same size.. and after the exterior redo of the XTS recently.. even I had to do a double take to tell the difference. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

That would be an excellent approach- discontinue the XTS and pump the CT6 volume up. Put it in another US plant, because I'd never buy a Chinese-built version and I don't think it does Cadillac any favors to import it.
 

Yet they import and sell all the S-Class from Germany, so why would the 1% care about where the auto is built?

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Yet they import and sell all the S-Class from Germany, so why would the 1% care about where the auto is built?

Cause MT, C&D, Jalopnik, Truth About Cars.. etc will SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS that GM is doing it. Now.. me personally.. I'm hoping that Cadillac is keeping the CT6 and just changing the name as I said before. Call it CT6=Escala. Change the back.. I would scoop this up in a NY sec

41 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Cause MT, C&D, Jalopnik, Truth About Cars.. etc will SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS that GM is doing it. Now.. me personally.. I'm hoping that Cadillac is keeping the CT6 and just changing the name as I said before. Call it CT6=Escala. Change the back.. I would scoop this up in a NY sec

 

Wish they would allow two Emoji on a post as my first was  and the second was ?

Totally agree with you, Escala with AWD Electric would rock!

Talk about being the most quiet smooth ride around! Truly World Class Leading.

Of all of the introductions that Cadillac has over the next year and a half (1 every 6 months till the end of 2020), only ONE is a new model that doesn't directly/indirectly replace something they don't already sell.  (I'm counting CT4 as an indirect replacement for ATS and CT5 as an indirect replacement for CTS)

30 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Wish they would allow two Emoji on a post as my first was  and the second was ?

Totally agree with you, Escala with AWD Electric would rock!

Talk about being the most quiet smooth ride around! Truly World Class Leading.

Oh no doubt. In fact that would be perfect, and a splash that would send the brand on high. JESUS!!! Did U read what U wrote? That would be fantastic! AWD and Electric.. of course I would still have an optional 4.2L TTV8 for the hold outs.. which would be simply insane. 

32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Of all of the introductions that Cadillac has over the next year and a half (1 every 6 months till the end of 2020), only ONE is a new model that doesn't directly/indirectly replace something they don't already sell.  (I'm counting CT4 as an indirect replacement for ATS and CT5 as an indirect replacement for CTS)

 

so three? but a forth could also be in there as the words I read were always "THRU 2020." XT6 is one.. I wish that replacement vehicles were not included.

19 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

so three? but a forth could also be in there as the words I read were always "THRU 2020." XT6 is one.. I wish that replacement vehicles were not included.

Escalade, CT4, CT5, XT6, XT5 (refresh).... not in that order

XT6 will be in Detroit in January. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Escalade, CT4, CT5, XT6, XT5 (refresh).... not in that order

XT6 will be in Detroit in January. 

I hope they knock this one out the park. The XT6. There is literally ZERO reason for them to eff it up. Formula.. the extremely nice Buick Avenir Enclave.. Upgraded Cadillac leathers, Cadillac style.. 9 Speed tranny... MRC.. new faster "CUE..." (yeah I know).. and to really get a WOW.. make the Platinum available with a certain V8.. 

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I hope they knock this one out the park. The XT6. There is literally ZERO reason for them to eff it up. Formula.. the extremely nice Buick Avenir Enclave.. Upgraded Cadillac leathers, Cadillac style.. 9 Speed tranny... MRC.. new faster "CUE..." (yeah I know).. and to really get a WOW.. make the Platinum available with a certain V8.. 

Not sure that 4.2L TTV8 would FIT into a Lambda platform meant for a v6.

If Cadillac were smart, they take the latest Omega, make that the CT6 successor and make the 4.2L the standard engine, other than the pure EV choice.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Not sure that 4.2L TTV8 would FIT into a Lambda platform meant for a v6.

Yeah, remember that's a FWD/AWD transverse engine platform...I think GM's days of doing FWD V8 cars is in the past...

9 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yet they import and sell all the S-Class from Germany, so why would the 1% care about where the auto is built?

Let's go ask Germans if they had any issue buying an S-class built in South Carolina, USA.

i always thought that the Avenirs should have top grade leather and should just be a luxo max trim for GM. 

Cadillac would then get the high - end new age materials, some luxury brands are going back to cloth but like the stuff used for designer coats and bags... anyways yes.

But I’m still puzzled. I guess the agile GM thing started already. But isn’t it hard to make investments and then having to trickle elsewhere super rapidly because the initial version didn’t pan out?

This V8 has yet to come to market. It’s obvious thery’re going to find uses for it. Why it’s such a rumour, I mean it’s practically guaranteed. Do we really salivate over GM that much?

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Let's go ask Germans if they had any issue buying an S-class built in South Carolina, USA.

Moot point since they don't build the S-class in the US.  They build SUVs in Alabama, though.   (Which when they started production there over 20 years ago I thought would never be successful, but it has been). 

^ A-duh. Point was; WOULD Germans have an issue buying a MB s-class in Germany that was built in the US? Or China?
Perhaps journalists there wouldn't harp & harp & harp on the COO of such a vehicle, unlike US journalists, and it wouldn't be an issue.
Then again, private ownership in Germany runs well south of that in the US --vehicles there seem to be moreso appliances/taxis/fleets-- so maybe consumers wouldn't care if it was spun that way there.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ A-duh. Point was; WOULD Germans have an issue buying a MB s-class in Germany that was built in the US? Or China?
Perhaps journalists there wouldn't harp & harp & harp on the COO of such a vehicle, unlike US journalists, and it wouldn't be an issue.
Then again, private ownership in Germany runs well south of that in the US --vehicles there seem to be moreso appliances/taxis/fleets-- so maybe consumers wouldn't care if it was spun that way there.

YES.. they would. The IG Metall members in Sindelfingen would probably, and literally kick the S#!+ outta U if U did. Their families too.. because they know that their economy is dependent on that purchase. Looking at U people in DETROIT who drive anything other than a GM or Ford. Effin IDIOTS we as Americans are. Imagine the idea of an actual person buying a Toyota Sequoia over a Tahoe. Makes no sense in any reasonable way. Only Americans I think

Anyway.. the Aviator.. the Aviator is the first vehicle I have seen from Ford that actually makes me scared for Cadillac in terms of luxury. I can take an XT5 and genuinely have no issue over buying it versus an GLC or RX, and always feel like I have a superior luxo CUV in  all ways unless we thru in the AMG version.... where again.. Cadillac has the full capability to take that vehicle down and doesn't by simply equipping it with a LGX. THE QUESTION IS SIMPLE AND PLAIN.. WILL GM SIMPLY TAKE A LOOK AT THE AVIATOR AND NAVIGATOR AND SAY "SCREW IT.. LETS BEAT 'EM. " When the current CTS debuted.. and then the CT6.. I truly believed that there were zero doubts. The death of the CT6 , or the news of it is what is scaring every one of us. 

On 11/30/2018 at 3:20 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The reduction in horsepower in favor of the twin-turbo setup still won't be enough for @smk4565... he'll find something wrong with the headliner or the insides of the glovebox.

I think they should have 2 tubes of this V8 and put it in everything they can.  If the XT5 and XT6 were not front drive then it could have been there too.  I would put this in the ATS replacement too.  Cadillac needs something to stir up some excitement. They have other issues too but an exclusive V8 would help.  

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

Let's go ask Germans if they had any issue buying an S-class built in South Carolina, USA.

They might, Mercedes is building a new factory to make the S-class am EV’s while the current factory will continue making other models.  But I think GLE’s from Alabama go back to Germany and people buy them.

14 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

i always thought that the Avenirs should have top grade leather and should just be a luxo max trim for GM. 

 

Cadillac would then get the high - end new age materials, some luxury brands are going back to cloth but like the stuff used for designer coats and bags... anyways yes.

 

But I’m still puzzled. I guess the agile GM thing started already. But isn’t it hard to make investments and then having to trickle elsewhere super rapidly because the initial version didn’t pan out?

 

This V8 has yet to come to market. It’s obvious thery’re going to find uses for it. Why it’s such a rumour, I mean it’s practically guaranteed. Do we really salivate over GM that much?

I am honestly surprised that GM has not tied up with any designer or premium sports product company for a Premium Cadillac auto.

Asians, since I am married to a Korean, are crazy for brand names and I truly believe Cadillac could sell a Coach Edition CT and XT in the Asian rim and even sell some here.

Also who could not see Escalade selling a Premium NFL edition or any other sports edition versions. At least do this probably better yet for the sports at the GMC level.

Based on this list of most valuable companies:

https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/#tab:rank

Why does Cadillac not have a Louis Vuitton or Nike Edition?

On 12/1/2018 at 11:32 AM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Cause MT, C&D, Jalopnik, Truth About Cars.. etc will SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS that GM is doing it. Now.. me personally.. I'm hoping that Cadillac is keeping the CT6 and just changing the name as I said before. Call it CT6=Escala. Change the back.. I would scoop this up in a NY sec

 

I've warmed up on the Escala, if GM actually built it to look like the show car.

I do hope that the Escala is the CT6 replacement with the 4.2L TTV8.  Cadillac could certainly use it right now.

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

https://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/#tab:rank

Why does Cadillac not have a Louis Vuitton or Nike Edition?

 

The same reason that Rolls-Royce or Bentley don’t do that, they are the brand.  “Cadillac” should be the hot brand people want.  That is GM’s fault for trashing the brand image over the past 30 years.

I don’t know why GM decided on a 4.2 liter V8 when China has a displacement tax threshold at 4.0 liters, unless they don’t plan on selling this engine in China, then it doesn’t matter.

70% of the Chinese market sales is under 1.6L. Still, the Chinese consumer is hit with so many taxes it's ridiculous.

CT6 is an aspirational & expensive full-size luxury car in a very small segment of overall sales. Buyers expect the price to be high, and buried in the MSRP, it's not obvious. Other cars it competes with already start much higher in price. Audi A8, only available with a 3.0L, starts MUCH higher in price- "do they expect to sell any there"??

On 11/30/2018 at 10:36 PM, dfelt said:

If they are killing off cars, then Motor1.com has shown the 15 worst cars that should also die.

https://www.motor1.com/features/282006/worst-selling-cars-trucks-2018/

• Units sold since the start of 2018
• 15th - Audi A7 at 1,959
• 14th - Jaguar XF at 1,944 
• 13th - Jaguar F-Type at 1,925
• 12th - Mercedes-Benz SL-Class at 1,787
• 11th - Mercedes-Benz SLC-Class at 1,692
• 10th - Lexus LC at 1,688
• 9th - Acura RLX at 1,556
• 8th - Jabuar XJ at 1,365
• 7th - Fiat 500L at 1,327
• 6th - Toyota Mirai at 1,263 - Seems crazy to include Hydrogen autos
• 5th - Audi TT at 1,244
• 4th - Smart For Two at 1,054
• 3rd - Audi A8 at 909
• 2nd - Kia K900 at 277
• 1st - Alfa Romeo 4C at 217 units

I would say if Cadillac cannot make a profit on the CT6, then how can any of these auto companies make a profit and all these cars should be killed off for the US.

The Audis don't really make sense as there are the S versions of both of those and an RS for the 7. Add those up and they're likely not on that list and it's all the same car.

It's a shame about the 4C as it's a beautiful car but I completely understand why that's on the list and #1. 

Also, a lot of those aren't US exclusive. I know a lot of those luxury brands sell in Europe. I know the CT6 sells in China as well...not sure on those numbers. 

On 12/1/2018 at 11:09 AM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Either way.. the average American.. if GM were to properly market the vehicle.. hell the way they are currently doing with the XT4.. they could sell 3X what they have been.. As Americans don't really care where the car comes from.. just look at Volvo. 

Yes. Yes. Yes. 

Their marketing is dog$h! outside of Cadillac. 

26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The Audis don't really make sense as there are the S versions of both of those and an RS for the 7. Add those up and they're likely not on that list and it's all the same car.

It's a shame about the 4C as it's a beautiful car but I completely understand why that's on the list and #1. 

Also, a lot of those aren't US exclusive. I know a lot of those luxury brands sell in Europe. I know the CT6 sells in China as well...not sure on those numbers. 

Those numbers where for the US market only and so it is correct that in the global view, some of these auto's would not be on this list. For the US, these numbers suck for sure.

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

70% of the Chinese market sales is under 1.6L. Still, the Chinese consumer is hit with so many taxes it's ridiculous.

Chinese consumers lack understanding of taxes at purchasing and using phases, and scarcely pay attention to taxes within price such as vehicle CT (consumer tax). Actually, vehicles with different displacements pay different CT, and CT is included in ex-factory price, incorporating into the bases of VAT (value added tax) and surtaxes. Thus, CT and VAT are included in Manufacturers’ Suggested Retail Prices (MSRP). Besides, the amount of VPT (vehicle purchase tax) paid by consumers is 10% of vehicle price exempted of VAT.
~ Overview of China’s Automotive Tax Scheme, 2017

CT6 is an aspirational & expensive full-size luxury car in a very small segment of overall sales. Buyers expect the price to be high, and buried in the MSRP, it's not obvious. Other cars it competes with already start much higher in price. Audi A8, only available with a 3.0L, starts MUCH higher in price- "do they expect to sell any there"??

I imagine most Audi’s sold in China are 2 or 3 liter.  Their V8 does come in under 4 liters to avoid that top tax rate.  But I bet the great majority of A8’s are V6 in China

On 11/30/2018 at 11:16 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm guessing the CT6 will be imported from China. That's my guess.

...and how much more of the lineup in another ten years?

28 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

...and how much more of the lineup in another ten years?

Comparing the ratios of populations 300 million to 1.6 billion, the US is 1/5th of their population, so I am guessing 1/5th of Cadillacs lineup stays local such as Escalade and 1or 2 XT's the rest is imported.

Here's a thought.. How much is labor in China vs US. A bunch in sure, but with the supposed new trade agreement there will be no tariff in exports to China from US.. Hey GM.. Build the CT6 here for US and China and keep the 900+ buyers per month happy. My V is at the dealership now for a recall on the steering module. They have me in CT6 3.6l with Super-Cruise. I will post a review tonight or tomorrow. Let's just say that we are really missing out of they really kill this car. I've driven the 3.0TT in the past but this my first time in the 3.6.. It too is seriously swift to be in such a large AWD vehicle