Cadillac Sees Global Sales Up 24.5 Percent In Dec. 2015, and 7.5% For the Year

With the right new vehicles... I see very little in the way of 500,000 by 2020. Cadillac needs product...and within that product, variants. I still am bewildered as to why I can not buy a Cadillac convertible, small, mid, or sports car. Its insanity. There shouldn't be a concept, but a production vehicle already on the way out.

I think if they can fix the CTS problem, that would help, new XT5 should be a huge boon.  I would increase Escalade production too.

Fix CTS?

They need more products and variants for sure.  I don't know why they move so slow with product roll outs.  They also need to get into more markets.  1,750 cars in EU and Russia isn't going to get it done.

Johan has confirmed a sub-ATS model is coming to battle the CLA and 1-series.  I guess the CLA haters that say Mercedes will dilute their brand image and the CLA competes with Chevy will have to find a new argument against Mercedes product strategy.

Fix CTS?

CTS has a sales problem.  I am not sure how you fix that though.  It is the biggest car in the segment, maybe it needs to shrink, get a more interesting looking rear end, better interior, I don't know.  The people aren't buying it though, and even more scary is a new E-class is on sale in summer, and a new 5-series is coming shortly after that.

They need more products and variants for sure.  I don't know why they move so slow with product roll outs.  They also need to get into more markets.  1,750 cars in EU and Russia isn't going to get it done.

 

Johan has confirmed a sub-ATS model is coming to battle the CLA and 1-series.  I guess the CLA haters that say Mercedes will dilute their brand image and the CLA competes with Chevy will have to find a new argument against Mercedes product strategy.

So then you will have to move the field goal posts again since MB is equal to Chevy, Ford and Dodge in many ways with their FWD appliances, the crappy SmartCar and their Mormon/Catholic family hauling Sprinter Vans.

Well Cadillac is about to have a car cheaper than the CLA.  I guess Cadillac wants to compete with Chevy as well by your logic.  And let's see, ELR, XTS, SRX/XT5, Cadillac has just as many front drive cars as Mercedes, but they don't have nearly as many rear drive models.

And I didn't move any goal post.  I simply said that Cadillac needs more models, they have 1 crossover when that it the hottest segment, for example.  They don't have a convertible, hatch or wagon.  The product line is limited, and so are the countries they are selling in.  Cadillac only has 2 countries in which they sell over 13,000 cars a year, they need to expand the footprint.  

I hope Cadillac comes to their senses and shelves ANY sub-ATS product. They're still 'loose on the rudder' if they do- it's not where a luxury brand should be competeing. 

Also vehemently opposed to shooting for 500K sales, Cadillac has never been anywhere close to that level and it doesn't need nor should aspire to that level.
To get there other lux brands come up with all sorts of boondoggles like empty shell cargo vans, non-sliding door minivans, and uber cheap FWD appliances. Cadillac should remain above such obvious volume grabs and stay true to a 'luxury core'.  

A sub ATS model could mean the 2.5 ATS dies, and the ATS (or CT3) starts with the 2.0T at $37,000.  

And I think I said Johan before who has hinted at a sub-ATS.  Dave Leone confirmed to Road and Track that they are currently working on a car below ATS, and that it would be rear drive.   The car is already in development.

A sub ATS model could mean the 2.5 ATS dies, and the ATS (or CT3) starts with the 2.0T at $37,000.  

 

And I think I said Johan before who has hinted at a sub-ATS.  Dave Leone confirmed to Road and Track that they are currently working on a car below ATS, and that it would be rear drive.   The car is already in development.

Wouldn't a sub-ATS with RWD make it better than a MB CLA by your logic?  Can't have that now can we?

Well for Cadillac sales increases are larger because their total sales year over year are smaller compared to competitors.

More than just making great cars - Cadillac has to improve its global prestige. I think making products that people want or want to associate with will net quick sales increases. But it may be at accords with keeping ATPs up (which again is propped up by Escalade sales in America; but can't be reproduced anywhere else and a dearth of sales for sedans compared to rivals) or having an original product mix.

Cadillac should continue to do what it does best - catch up quickly in the segments where it isn't but can easily join, and maintain the differentiating factor in the segments where it is arguably the best in ride/handling. But that itself is a low priority at this point. More important is value built on that branding, built on the expectation of capability, not outward displays of it.

Cadillac's biggest weakness is the lack of an emotional product for the global product line, like the LC500 or BMW i8 or the Audi R8 or the more accessible Audi A7. Something that is stylish, something that doesn't really have to sell, but something that projects the intentions of the brand as one being almost arrogant. These kinds of products are never profit-centers, atleast not initially.

They need more products and variants for sure.  I don't know why they move so slow with product roll outs.  They also need to get into more markets.  1,750 cars in EU and Russia isn't going to get it done.

 

Johan has confirmed a sub-ATS model is coming to battle the CLA and 1-series.  I guess the CLA haters that say Mercedes will dilute their brand image and the CLA competes with Chevy will have to find a new argument against Mercedes product strategy.

The CLA is put down not because of the price.. but because it is a $h!ty car that has the build quality of a leather cladded Yugo.

 

Fix CTS?

CTS has a sales problem.  I am not sure how you fix that though.  It is the biggest car in the segment, maybe it needs to shrink, get a more interesting looking rear end, better interior, I don't know.  The people aren't buying it though, and even more scary is a new E-class is on sale in summer, and a new 5-series is coming shortly after that.

 

Sales problem has been outlined a thousand times and U and some still seem to not get it. No coupe, no advertising, same priced XTS on the lot.. get it thru your head. Interior is award winning. Performance is class leading. Look is subjective but I think its the best looking of the segment

I hope Cadillac comes to their senses and shelves ANY sub-ATS product. They're still 'loose on the rudder' if they do- it's not where a luxury brand should be competeing. 

 

Also vehemently opposed to shooting for 500K sales, Cadillac has never been anywhere close to that level and it doesn't need nor should aspire to that level.

To get there other lux brands come up with all sorts of boondoggles like empty shell cargo vans, non-sliding door minivans, and uber cheap FWD appliances. Cadillac should remain above such obvious volume grabs and stay true to a 'luxury core'.  

The problem is that Cadillac profit potential at 500K is unbelievable.. and GM sees this, especially since the Platform arrangement will push profitability even further by that time. As to the sub-ATS model.. I think that they should hold off as well. Translate it into a sports car convertible and delve deep into niche. 

Cadillac's biggest weakness is the lack of an emotional product for the global product line, like the LC500 or BMW i8 or the Audi R8 or the more accessible Audi A7. Something that is stylish, something that doesn't really have to sell, but something that projects the intentions of the brand as one being almost arrogant. These kinds of products are never profit-centers, atleast not initially.

First off, the i8 is a certainly a good example of something that doesn't sell. It's "arrogant" to the point that no one wants to be seen in one.

Same with the R8 : VW sold (15) R8s in December, whereas Cadillac's 'emotional, stylish, doesn't have to sell, arrogant' ELR sold NINE TIMES that many in Dec.

That is NOT Cadillac's "biggest weakness"- those uber niche cars don't sell ANY more audis/BMWs.

But we NEVER read how the R8 is a 'failure' that 'no body buys', but that's ALL we read about WRT the ELR.

- - - - - 

People need to get it thru their heads; Cadillac is not General Motors (nor BMW, nor Daimler, nor VW), it's NOT about sales volume with Cadillac…. but because it's connected with what was once, 60 years ago, nearly 1 out of every 2 sales in the U.S., that's the filter every op-ed is (erroneously) written thru. It's a flawed metric that is decades out of date BESIDES the fact that it was never pertinent WRT Cadillac. Cadilac's traditional, historical sales level is in the 200K-250K, and that served them with the utmost excellence. With the right mix of product & marketing, it would do so again.

Cadillac must STOP trying to match the catalogs of the mega mainstream German so-called  luxury brands. They are not a million plus unit marque.

Let mercedes compete with toyota in the $29K range- they HAVE to.

 

Cadillac's biggest weakness is the lack of an emotional product for the global product line, like the LC500 or BMW i8 or the Audi R8 or the more accessible Audi A7. Something that is stylish, something that doesn't really have to sell, but something that projects the intentions of the brand as one being almost arrogant. These kinds of products are never profit-centers, atleast not initially.

First off, the i8 is a certainly a good example of something that doesn't sell. It's "arrogant" to the point that no one wants to be seen in one.

Same with the R8 : VW sold (15) R8s in December, whereas Cadillac's 'emotional, stylish, doesn't have to sell, arrogant' ELR sold NINE TIMES that many in Dec.

 

That is NOT Cadillac's "biggest weakness"- those uber niche cars don't sell ANY more audis/BMWs.

 

But we NEVER read how the R8 is a 'failure' that 'no body buys', but that's ALL we read about WRT the ELR.

 

- - - - - 

People need to get it thru their heads; Cadillac is not General Motors (nor BMW, nor Daimler, nor VW), it's NOT about sales volume with Cadillac…. but because it's connected with what was once, 60 years ago, nearly 1 out of every 2 sales in the U.S., that's the filter every op-ed is (erroneously) written thru. It's a flawed metric that is decades out of date BESIDES the fact that it was never pertinent WRT Cadillac. Cadilac's traditional, historical sales level is in the 200K-250K, and that served them with the utmost excellence. With the right mix of product & marketing, it would do so again.

 

Cadillac must STOP trying to match the catalogs of the mega mainstream German so-called  luxury brands. They are not a million plus unit marque.

Let mercedes compete with toyota in the $29K range- they HAVE to.

 

They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother. The only saving grace is that Toyota is mostly Toyota.. with little in the way of near luxury outside of the Land Cruiser and Avalon, while GM does have the entire Buick and GMC brands accounting for 1.7 Million sales in 2014, while Cadillac added an additional 250K

Cmicasa >>They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother.<<

But the luxury market has FAR many more players now, also. in the mid 60s, for example, it was only Cad, Lincoln & Imperial. More players, so the pie is divided up farther. Cadillac's circa 378K U.S. sales in 1978 may never be eclipsed because of that very reason. But I still believe 500K globally is too high, and it's certainly no criteria/wish of mine.

My prime point is, too many people / op-eds are trying to hold Cadillac up to the 'business model' of MB & BMW, when those are 90% of their parent corporation's business. Cadillac is NOT anywhere within shooting distance of that percentage within General Motors, thusly the concept that Cadillac "needs" to compete at every rung is vastly flawed.

Cmicasa >>They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother.<<

 

But the luxury market has FAR many more players now, also. in the mid 60s, for example, it was only Cad, Lincoln & Imperial. More players, so the pie is divided up farther. Cadillac's circa 378K U.S. sales in 1978 may never be eclipsed because of that very reason. But I still believe 500K globally is too high, and it's certainly no criteria/wish of mine.

 

My prime point is, too many people / op-eds are trying to hold Cadillac up to the 'business model' of MB & BMW, when those are 90% of their parent corporation's business. Cadillac is NOT anywhere within shooting distance of that percentage within General Motors, thusly the concept that Cadillac "needs" to compete at every rung is vastly flawed.

Granted.. and as I said.. 20 years.. meaning at this point.,. the 90s.. not the 60s. In 1996 we had Cadillac, Lincoln, Benz, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Saab, and Jag.

Also... I am not saying that Cadillac should be in every segment. Quite the contrary. I am saying that within the segments it is in currently.. it should have variants. For instance.. CTS should have a wagon, convertible, coupe. They can have their own designation or name, but the choice should be available. Same for the ATS. Add Diesels across the board. The only real addition I think they need, outside of a larger and smaller than XT5 CUV, is small sports car, and a super-car.. Make an electric or hybrid version of all. 500K sales JUST LIKE THAT. 

Mercedes has 16 models.. BMW, 12. They should be outselling Cadillac's 6 models

Fix CTS?

Yes. The poor sales and the ugly front end.

 

Cmicasa >>They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother.<<

 

But the luxury market has FAR many more players now, also. in the mid 60s, for example, it was only Cad, Lincoln & Imperial. More players, so the pie is divided up farther. Cadillac's circa 378K U.S. sales in 1978 may never be eclipsed because of that very reason. But I still believe 500K globally is too high, and it's certainly no criteria/wish of mine.

 

My prime point is, too many people / op-eds are trying to hold Cadillac up to the 'business model' of MB & BMW, when those are 90% of their parent corporation's business. Cadillac is NOT anywhere within shooting distance of that percentage within General Motors, thusly the concept that Cadillac "needs" to compete at every rung is vastly flawed.

 

 

 

Granted.. and as I said.. 20 years.. meaning at this point.,. the 90s.. not the 60s. In 1996 we had Cadillac, Lincoln, Benz, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Saab, and Jag.

 

Also... I am not saying that Cadillac should be in every segment. Quite the contrary. I am saying that within the segments it is in currently.. it should have variants. For instance.. CTS should have a wagon, convertible, coupe. They can have their own designation or name, but the choice should be available. Same for the ATS. Add Diesels across the board. The only real addition I think they need, outside of a larger and smaller than XT5 CUV, is small sports car, and a super-car.. Make an electric or hybrid version of all. 500K sales JUST LIKE THAT. 

 

Mercedes has 16 models.. BMW, 12. They should be outselling Cadillac's 6 models

 

I agree with the 'model plan', but I see your plan doesn't include a sub-ATS.

That plan looks fine, should be good for 350K. Again- I don;t want nor care to see 500K from Cadillac.

 

A sub ATS model could mean the 2.5 ATS dies, and the ATS (or CT3) starts with the 2.0T at $37,000.  

 

And I think I said Johan before who has hinted at a sub-ATS.  Dave Leone confirmed to Road and Track that they are currently working on a car below ATS, and that it would be rear drive.   The car is already in development.

 

Wouldn't a sub-ATS with RWD make it better than a MB CLA by your logic?  Can't have that now can we?

 

A sub ATS rear driver should have better ride and handling than a CLA, all other things being equal.  Assuming they don't put an awful engine or transmission into the CT1 or CT2 whatever it will be called, they should have better mechanics than the CLA.  Then it comes down to styling and interior.

 

 

Fix CTS?

CTS has a sales problem.  I am not sure how you fix that though.  It is the biggest car in the segment, maybe it needs to shrink, get a more interesting looking rear end, better interior, I don't know.  The people aren't buying it though, and even more scary is a new E-class is on sale in summer, and a new 5-series is coming shortly after that.

 

 

 

Sales problem has been outlined a thousand times and U and some still seem to not get it. No coupe, no advertising, same priced XTS on the lot.. get it thru your head. Interior is award winning. Performance is class leading. Look is subjective but I think its the best looking of the segment

 

Why isn't there a CTS coupe then?  Does GM not have the money to spend on Cadillac product development, can they not afford advertising either?   The 5-series doesn't have a coupe, it has that GT thing that doesn't sell, but it mostly gets by on 1 body style. 

And if the CTS is such a good product, why doesn't it outsell the exactly same priced XTS?  It has better ride, handling, breaking, overall performance than an XTS, award winning interior but can't outsell the XTS.  The CTS was down 32% last year, something is wrong with either the product or their sales approach.

In 2014 GM sold 9.9 million cars and made a profit of $2.8 billion.  That works out to $282 per car in profit.  This was a bad year though due to recall costs, in 2013, they made $3.8 billion net profit and it looks like 2015 will finish up closer to $4 billion in profit.  So let's say they sell 10 million cars and make $4 billion profit, that is $400 per car. 

If Cadillac could make an 8% margin per car, that would be $4,000 per car.  Wouldn't GM rather sell more $4,000 per car profit vehicles than the money losing Opels, or the $400 profit per car Chevrolets?

I couldn't find Mercedes car division (no vans or Daimler trucks) net income, but I found their EBIT for 2014, which was $6.39 billion on sales of 1,722,600 cars.  GM the same year had EBIT of $6.49 billion on sales of 9.9 million cars.   Nearly the same amount of annual profit but an 8 million unit gap in sales.  And Audi works on a better profit margin than Mercedes does and has even higher sales volume.  This is the importance of luxury sales.  Cadillac could produce more dollars of profit than Buick, GMC and Chevy combined, if they could get the volume up.

The S-class was down 13% last year and 24% in December alone, something is wrong with either the product or their sales approach.

Well I actually liked the ELR for what it was, I feel it was a discount i8 from Cadillac... (no, really I think that way, the car certainly had way more cred for being environmentally friendly)...

And I also don't want Cadillac to go down the rabbit hole... I want them to make every vehicle though that is stunning.

The thing about the stupid slow selling coupes that are almost or are full super-cars is that they get people talking about your brand. Suckered folks then start tracing the absurdity of those cars back down to the rest of the product line.

When people saw the stunning ELR, then started to talk about it, and then realized where the substantive differences were from the Volt and what the price was, it kinda blew up on itself. Cadillac was expecting a few times more sales than it gets now - or maybe those were sales milestones imposed by upper GM management.

In that case it was the fault of the corporate parent. Since (I hope, I dream, I relish for) Cadillac now has the same autonomy we hope JD has enabled for the brand, then nothing can stop them from shooting for the moon itself.

 

Fix CTS?

Yes. The poor sales and the ugly front end.

Your opinion on this like your opinion on the Acadia size change is your own... On both I completely disagree. The looks of the CTS are perfect imo . Sales... From my perspective are in line with where they should be given the circumstances I've outlined a dozen times; lack of variants, XTS, zero ads, and shift to CUVs. Sales of the 5series, E, and A6 suggest the same on the latter. A folly of GM no doubt, but name one luck maker with a similar pricing structure where overlap is present like it is on the CTS and XTS. I don't blame the car I blame the company. In fact the only place where there is a similarity is at Lexus. The GS and the ES in terms of size.. But price is done in a way that garners the ES more sales at lower investment versus the GS. At Cadillac they do it exactly the same.. But leveraging Epsilon LWB (XTS, Impala, and Lacrosse) at a higher price.. Now that I think of it.. It might be brilliant considering the overall sales numbers.

Bottom line is that the CTS sales are relative to what Cadillac is producing. If U.. analysts.. Cadillac put the singularity of the CTS out.. believing that a higher priced( by $10K, or 30% increase in price) no advertised, was gonna sell in the same numbers as the Gen 2 model.. with a same priced XTS on the lot no less.. then allof U are bat &#036;h&#33; crazy. Even more so with the CUV boom going on. Its as if people believe that CTS buyers can be magically converted from Coupe, Wagon, and VSeries buyers to just CTS Sedan ones. Again... how many COupe buyers are waiting for a coupe to replace their MID-SIZE Luxury CTS? How many Wagon buyers? I kno for a fact that this VSeries owner has bought a Gen 3 CTS because they lacked the VSeries variant I wanted. Even now supply is so low that I have to wait to add to the sales numbers till around Spring.

 

 

Cmicasa >>They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother.<<

 

But the luxury market has FAR many more players now, also. in the mid 60s, for example, it was only Cad, Lincoln & Imperial. More players, so the pie is divided up farther. Cadillac's circa 378K U.S. sales in 1978 may never be eclipsed because of that very reason. But I still believe 500K globally is too high, and it's certainly no criteria/wish of mine.

 

My prime point is, too many people / op-eds are trying to hold Cadillac up to the 'business model' of MB & BMW, when those are 90% of their parent corporation's business. Cadillac is NOT anywhere within shooting distance of that percentage within General Motors, thusly the concept that Cadillac "needs" to compete at every rung is vastly flawed.

 

 

 

Granted.. and as I said.. 20 years.. meaning at this point.,. the 90s.. not the 60s. In 1996 we had Cadillac, Lincoln, Benz, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Saab, and Jag.

 

Also... I am not saying that Cadillac should be in every segment. Quite the contrary. I am saying that within the segments it is in currently.. it should have variants. For instance.. CTS should have a wagon, convertible, coupe. They can have their own designation or name, but the choice should be available. Same for the ATS. Add Diesels across the board. The only real addition I think they need, outside of a larger and smaller than XT5 CUV, is small sports car, and a super-car.. Make an electric or hybrid version of all. 500K sales JUST LIKE THAT. 

 

Mercedes has 16 models.. BMW, 12. They should be outselling Cadillac's 6 models

 

I agree with the 'model plan', but I see your plan doesn't include a sub-ATS.

That plan looks fine, should be good for 350K. Again- I don;t want nor care to see 500K from Cadillac.

 

I don't think a sub ATS is needed. I think the ATS could simply be better marketed as to appeal to the pockets of the public. It also lacks at the very least a convertible.. which accounted for 15% of BMW 3/4 compact numbers in 2014

 

 

 

Fix CTS?

CTS has a sales problem.  I am not sure how you fix that though.  It is the biggest car in the segment, maybe it needs to shrink, get a more interesting looking rear end, better interior, I don't know.  The people aren't buying it though, and even more scary is a new E-class is on sale in summer, and a new 5-series is coming shortly after that.

 

 

 

Sales problem has been outlined a thousand times and U and some still seem to not get it. No coupe, no advertising, same priced XTS on the lot.. get it thru your head. Interior is award winning. Performance is class leading. Look is subjective but I think its the best looking of the segment

 

Why isn't there a CTS coupe then?  Does GM not have the money to spend on Cadillac product development, can they not afford advertising either?   The 5-series doesn't have a coupe, it has that GT thing that doesn't sell, but it mostly gets by on 1 body style. 

 

And if the CTS is such a good product, why doesn't it outsell the exactly same priced XTS?  It has better ride, handling, breaking, overall performance than an XTS, award winning interior but can't outsell the XTS.  The CTS was down 32% last year, something is wrong with either the product or their sales approach.

 

I have no clue why GM won't produce a damn CTS Coupe. Its a no-brainer. 5 Series does have a coupe essentially in the 6Series. A platform mate. Both were down over 50% in December btw.. never a word on that of course

As to why the CTS doesn't sell in the same numbers or better despite it being a better car; I chalk it up to value. Many buyers of the XTS see it as a larger car.. thus more luxury.. for the same price. Driving dynamics are not a factor when the two are compared, especially when one considers that the XTS is no slouch in that dept either. 

I think Cadillac has mediocre management, awful product planners, and the worst marketing/advertising department of any luxury brand.

The ATS coupe sits in the price point of the old CTS coupe, so they still have 1 coupe too sell.  But no convertible in the line up and 1 crossover is a joke.  I wonder how much of this is Cadillac's own ineptitude vs GM's top brass handcuffing the brand.  Cadillac could be turning 10 times the profit of Buick or GMC, yet the top brass wants to keep investing in GMC and Buick, while not giving Cadillac enough product.  A company the size of GM should have at least $10 billion a year in profit, not $3-4 billion as they have been producing.

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

W But it may be at accords with keeping ATPs up (which again is propped up by Escalade sales in America; but can't be reproduced anywhere else and a dearth of sales for sedans compared to rivals) or having an original product mix.

Because after almost 20 years.. of being in the line-up.. frankly the longest running current model.. it is somehow not a part or the lineup.. thus propping. 

Furthermore.. when the XTS and same priced CTS are coupled.. where is the death of sales talk coming from?

I think Cadillac has mediocre management, awful product planners, and the worst marketing/advertising department of any luxury brand.

 

The ATS coupe sits in the price point of the old CTS coupe, so they still have 1 coupe too sell.  But no convertible in the line up and 1 crossover is a joke.  I wonder how much of this is Cadillac's own ineptitude vs GM's top brass handcuffing the brand.  Cadillac could be turning 10 times the profit of Buick or GMC, yet the top brass wants to keep investing in GMC and Buick, while not giving Cadillac enough product.  A company the size of GM should have at least $10 billion a year in profit, not $3-4 billion as they have been producing.

 

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

not getting help from the Japanese Government... not to mention improving their line-up in a way that produces superior vehicles.. Toyota on the other hand.. not so much. Even their flagship Prius Hybrid is falling behind the competition in terms of.. wait for it.. wait.. TECHNOLOGY

GM just got un-handcuffed in early-mid 2015.

GM just got un-handcuffed in early-mid 2015.

What Do U mean?? Its probably what I was thinking.. but just need clarity

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

It's a lot easier to make a profit when your domestic government pays the healthcare costs of your domestic employees and has been for 40 years.

 

GM just got un-handcuffed in early-mid 2015.

 

What Do U mean?? Its probably what I was thinking.. but just need clarity

 

The move to NYC, Johan, Cadillac setting it's own agenda, Cadillac getting first dibs on new tech coming out of corporate.

How is that NYC move helping their image btw?  I mean, aside from a spike in December, not a lot of great news in the last few years for Cadillac.  The exception is their CUV/SUV's.

And no, they don't need a sub ATS.

ATS is already too small and only works as a coupe, with the 2nd row being barely better than a camaro.

And a CTS coupe would seem a bit redundant on a segment that sells small anyway.   

How is that NYC move helping their image btw?  I mean, aside from a spike in December, not a lot of great news in the last few years for Cadillac.  The exception is their CUV/SUV's.

 

And no, they don't need a sub ATS.

ATS is already too small and only works as a coupe, with the 2nd row being barely better than a camaro.

 

And a CTS coupe would seem a bit redundant on a segment that sells small anyway.   

The move to NYC wasn't about image mostly, it was about getting them out of the RenCen and able to operate in a more independent fashion. 

 

I think Cadillac has mediocre management, awful product planners, and the worst marketing/advertising department of any luxury brand.

 

The ATS coupe sits in the price point of the old CTS coupe, so they still have 1 coupe too sell.  But no convertible in the line up and 1 crossover is a joke.  I wonder how much of this is Cadillac's own ineptitude vs GM's top brass handcuffing the brand.  Cadillac could be turning 10 times the profit of Buick or GMC, yet the top brass wants to keep investing in GMC and Buick, while not giving Cadillac enough product.  A company the size of GM should have at least $10 billion a year in profit, not $3-4 billion as they have been producing.

 

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

 

 

not getting help from the Japanese Government... not to mention improving their line-up in a way that produces superior vehicles.. Toyota on the other hand.. not so much. Even their flagship Prius Hybrid is falling behind the competition in terms of.. wait for it.. wait.. TECHNOLOGY

 

VW made $11.9 billion in profit in 2014.  $9 billion more than GM on roughly the same number of sales.  Audi alone generates more dollars in profit than all of GM.  GM needs to put a bigger focus on Cadillac, they should have a bigger line up and get more new product than Buick and GMC combined.   

 

 

 

Fix CTS?

CTS has a sales problem.  I am not sure how you fix that though.  It is the biggest car in the segment, maybe it needs to shrink, get a more interesting looking rear end, better interior, I don't know.  The people aren't buying it though, and even more scary is a new E-class is on sale in summer, and a new 5-series is coming shortly after that.

 

 

 

Sales problem has been outlined a thousand times and U and some still seem to not get it. No coupe, no advertising, same priced XTS on the lot.. get it thru your head. Interior is award winning. Performance is class leading. Look is subjective but I think its the best looking of the segment

 

Why isn't there a CTS coupe then?  Does GM not have the money to spend on Cadillac product development, can they not afford advertising either?   The 5-series doesn't have a coupe, it has that GT thing that doesn't sell, but it mostly gets by on 1 body style. 

 

And if the CTS is such a good product, why doesn't it outsell the exactly same priced XTS?  It has better ride, handling, breaking, overall performance than an XTS, award winning interior but can't outsell the XTS.  The CTS was down 32% last year, something is wrong with either the product or their sales approach.

 

CTS front end is ugly and overall the car is a bit of a styling miss, that is a major reason its a miss.  Local dealers here advertise 'new' 14's and 15's still.....some at a 20-25k drop from MSRP.  For well over a year now.  And still the sales stink.  WHen you're dropping 20-25k off msrp you are not making "8,000 dollars per unit".  I don't spend much on cars but i am licking my chops because you can find new gen CTS's on the used market coming dangerously close to 30 grand now. ALmost went and drove one yesterday.  

I love the CTS but it has big flaws and pricing problems and that's why it don't sell.  The XTS is more appealing to the blue hairs despite the fact its a Cadillac IMpala.

Wouldn't take much to fix the CTS, but they are probably better off redoing the whole car and introducing it as the CT5 or whatever.  The ATS problem is simple, redo the whole car, give it some rear leg room and trunk and give it a new nice interior.  And then keep it down in price compared to the other models.

It would cost Cadillac a lot less money to fix the styling problems on the CTS, and redo all the option and trim level packages, than to let the cars rot on the lots and then put them into loaner service or whatever and dump them for 20-25k off MSRP.

 

 

 

Cmicasa >>They can't stay at 250K sales as that was proportional to a population.. or market 20 years ago.. I personally do not see a need for them to hit the 1 million mark.. but globally they should at the very least be on par with Lexus, a luxury brand with a mainstream mother.<<

 

But the luxury market has FAR many more players now, also. in the mid 60s, for example, it was only Cad, Lincoln & Imperial. More players, so the pie is divided up farther. Cadillac's circa 378K U.S. sales in 1978 may never be eclipsed because of that very reason. But I still believe 500K globally is too high, and it's certainly no criteria/wish of mine.

 

My prime point is, too many people / op-eds are trying to hold Cadillac up to the 'business model' of MB & BMW, when those are 90% of their parent corporation's business. Cadillac is NOT anywhere within shooting distance of that percentage within General Motors, thusly the concept that Cadillac "needs" to compete at every rung is vastly flawed.

 

 

 

Granted.. and as I said.. 20 years.. meaning at this point.,. the 90s.. not the 60s. In 1996 we had Cadillac, Lincoln, Benz, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Saab, and Jag.

 

Also... I am not saying that Cadillac should be in every segment. Quite the contrary. I am saying that within the segments it is in currently.. it should have variants. For instance.. CTS should have a wagon, convertible, coupe. They can have their own designation or name, but the choice should be available. Same for the ATS. Add Diesels across the board. The only real addition I think they need, outside of a larger and smaller than XT5 CUV, is small sports car, and a super-car.. Make an electric or hybrid version of all. 500K sales JUST LIKE THAT. 

 

Mercedes has 16 models.. BMW, 12. They should be outselling Cadillac's 6 models

 

I agree with the 'model plan', but I see your plan doesn't include a sub-ATS.

That plan looks fine, should be good for 350K. Again- I don;t want nor care to see 500K from Cadillac.

 

 

 

I don't think a sub ATS is needed. I think the ATS could simply be better marketed as to appeal to the pockets of the public. It also lacks at the very least a convertible.. which accounted for 15% of BMW 3/4 compact numbers in 2014

 

Cadillac does not need a sub ATS, on this we agree.  GM could enact a temporary fix in the US and use the Chinese stretched version if they wanted to.  It looks better and gives more rear seat space.

I love the CTS but it has big flaws and pricing problems and that's why it don't sell.

It do sell.

 

 

I think Cadillac has mediocre management, awful product planners, and the worst marketing/advertising department of any luxury brand.

 

The ATS coupe sits in the price point of the old CTS coupe, so they still have 1 coupe too sell.  But no convertible in the line up and 1 crossover is a joke.  I wonder how much of this is Cadillac's own ineptitude vs GM's top brass handcuffing the brand.  Cadillac could be turning 10 times the profit of Buick or GMC, yet the top brass wants to keep investing in GMC and Buick, while not giving Cadillac enough product.  A company the size of GM should have at least $10 billion a year in profit, not $3-4 billion as they have been producing.

 

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

 

 

not getting help from the Japanese Government... not to mention improving their line-up in a way that produces superior vehicles.. Toyota on the other hand.. not so much. Even their flagship Prius Hybrid is falling behind the competition in terms of.. wait for it.. wait.. TECHNOLOGY

 

 

VW made $11.9 billion in profit in 2014.  $9 billion more than GM on roughly the same number of sales.  Audi alone generates more dollars in profit than all of GM.  GM needs to put a bigger focus on Cadillac, they should have a bigger line up and get more new product than Buick and GMC combined.   

 

And they are getting burned for their profiteering aren't they? How's that profit going to look after the dust settles on the diesel controversy? Stop trying to move the goal posts when you don't understand the game being played.

SMK, I wouldn't point out VW/Audi as a positive business case at the moment. 

Cadillac, they should have a bigger line up and get more new product than Buick and GMC combined.

Absolutely not! 

- - - - - 

Also, I would take VW/audi's profit statements with a small pail of salt in light of their emissions compliance claims.

SMK, I wouldn't point out VW/Audi as a positive business case at the moment. 

Exactly my point.

Well VW will pay for it dearly now.  But you could pick a number of brands that turn a better profit than GM.  You need profit from the luxury brand, there needs to be greater focus on more Cadillac product and more Cadillac advertising.

Well VW will pay for it dearly now.  But you could pick a number of brands that turn a better profit than GM.  You need profit from the luxury brand, there needs to be greater focus on more Cadillac product and more Cadillac advertising.

Now provide us with GMs total cost of operation and then you might have a convincing argument. That is only sure way to support your assertion about GM and their profits. Until then, more goal post moving and more BS quite honestly.

 

 

GM just got un-handcuffed in early-mid 2015.

 

What Do U mean?? Its probably what I was thinking.. but just need clarity

 

 

The move to NYC, Johan, Cadillac setting it's own agenda, Cadillac getting first dibs on new tech coming out of corporate.

 

Gotcha. It is also proof positive of them moving into the direction of platform consolidation on a mass scale down to four overall architectures. The idea of dropping platforms and making a set few modular, able to accommodate a wide variety of vehicles is a no-brainer that will save them billion in the long-run, not to mention reduce complexity in implementing each vehicle. 

The new Acadia is a o part of the "un-cuffing." Altho some see it as a travesty, making it smaller, GM was being bold not sticking to a tried formula and going a different route. I am impressed with the idea of using the same platform for multiple vehicles. The Epsilon2s have been doing this.. now its nice to see "Lambda 2," or the C1xx platform doing it as well

 

How is that NYC move helping their image btw?  I mean, aside from a spike in December, not a lot of great news in the last few years for Cadillac.  The exception is their CUV/SUV's.

 

And no, they don't need a sub ATS.

ATS is already too small and only works as a coupe, with the 2nd row being barely better than a camaro.

 

And a CTS coupe would seem a bit redundant on a segment that sells small anyway.   

 

The move to NYC wasn't about image mostly, it was about getting them out of the RenCen and able to operate in a more independent fashion. 

 

 

 

I think Cadillac has mediocre management, awful product planners, and the worst marketing/advertising department of any luxury brand.

 

The ATS coupe sits in the price point of the old CTS coupe, so they still have 1 coupe too sell.  But no convertible in the line up and 1 crossover is a joke.  I wonder how much of this is Cadillac's own ineptitude vs GM's top brass handcuffing the brand.  Cadillac could be turning 10 times the profit of Buick or GMC, yet the top brass wants to keep investing in GMC and Buick, while not giving Cadillac enough product.  A company the size of GM should have at least $10 billion a year in profit, not $3-4 billion as they have been producing.

 

Toyota for their fiscal year that ended March 2015 had $18.1 billion in profit, and are on pace to beat that this year.   $20 billion in profit at Toyota, $4 billion a GM, what the hell is GM doing?

 

 

not getting help from the Japanese Government... not to mention improving their line-up in a way that produces superior vehicles.. Toyota on the other hand.. not so much. Even their flagship Prius Hybrid is falling behind the competition in terms of.. wait for it.. wait.. TECHNOLOGY

 

 

VW made $11.9 billion in profit in 2014.  $9 billion more than GM on roughly the same number of sales.  Audi alone generates more dollars in profit than all of GM.  GM needs to put a bigger focus on Cadillac, they should have a bigger line up and get more new product than Buick and GMC combined.   

 

Unless U've been living in a bubble.. U kno what??? Keep talking about VW's profits that look to be going retro pretty soon 

Up until the 80s.. Cadillac was the leader in luxury hands down. Not Benz, not BMW, not even Rolls held the same capabilities as Cadillac mass selling while still retaining tier one status. They became complacent.. and also decadent, leading them to where they are now. Some wish to blame the Diesel debacle, 4-6-8, or the Cimmaron, but in reality Cadillac's biggest faux pax was not CHANGING to what they are now when they were most relevant. Had Cadillac made the changes they started making with the CTS in 2003, in 1983, or even 1993, they would currently be viewed as a real Benz/BMW competitor, and would still own the American market, and most likely China, with a real presence in Europe too.

The catalyst is not singular, but the point in time these numerous events took place is the same; the early '80s. Roger Smith took away Divisional autonomy & Cadillac was largely left rudderless, which spawned some of the singular examples mentioned above. Loss of autonomy: '81-82, loss of Divisional engineering: '82, Cadillac diesels : '78, V8-6-4 : '81, Cimarron: '82, HT4100: '82, downsized Devilles: '85. Too much misdirection for image & position to bear at once.

Cadillac did pretty well with the early 90s STS- that's a solid equivalent to the CTS and laid the foundation for it. And they tried with the Cimarron, which was very favorably reviewed when new, that's another building block… but they didn't push hard enough there and the performance was not where it needed to be (period BMW competition was stone slow then). GM was still smarting from 'badge engineering shaming' in this period, and in hindsight the Cimarron's rep became totally negative, whereas the STS is the opposite. Point being, Cadillac has been working toward the 'Euro' angle for a long time… but if they had retained their autonomy & proprietary engineering, I believe they would have been farther along, much quicker.