Cadillac Is Working On A RWD Sedan To Sit Below ATS

First off, again with the laser focus on starting price? Do you have any figures on how many $40K plus cars sell for base price? Is it even 5%, regardless of brand? It's a non-issue, meaningless.

they have to go down in price to the low 30s

​Cadillac is already there (your metric: starting price of $33K). No 'need to go' ; already there… and has been there for what- 3 years?

Mercedes "had" to go to the high $20s - pffft; how embarassing & desperate-appearing.

Class 6/7 trucks aren't passenger vehicles, they're commercial. Sprinters are retail sales, and a bunch are passenger buses, which is why they get grouped with the cars & SUVs.

Personally, I'd rather see the heritage names but I know those won't fly since they are trying to be international..

And yet the people that sell the Ghost, Phantom, Mulsanne, Panamera, Cayenne, Aventador, Gallardo, Rapide, Range Rover, and Quattroporte are international.  

 

Personally, I'd rather see the heritage names but I know those won't fly since they are trying to be international..

And yet the people that sell the Ghost, Phantom, Mulsanne, Panamera, Cayenne, Aventador, Gallardo, Rapide, Range Rover, and Quattroporte are international.  

 

Maybe 'international' was the wrong word... the reality is that Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz use alphanumerics..Cadillac is trying to emulate the leaders rather than lead..as are Lexus and Infiniti.

But BMW/MB's alphanumerics SUCK. Not to mention, both brands just reshuffled their 'systems'.

Everyone loves to trot out the tired 'Cadillac is only following' when all the other regularly-pointed to lux brands just follow each other. It's called playing the segment.

 

 

 

Or they could do something like CS* for the coupes...CS4, CS6, etc...  and then have something like a XS5 for a sport utility coupe...(X4 or X6 competitor).

Who is all this BMW shadowing supposed to appeal to, that's going to sign for a Cadillac? These folks want a misshapen & bloated 4-dr hatchback, they can march over to BMW for their fat dozen sedans and kindergarten naming schemes.

 

Again: Cadillac does not "Need" to answer all 43 models at BMW.

 

Well, they are trying to compete w/ the big 3 (Audi, BMW, MB) so it's natural they are going to try and match them at some level...maybe not in lock step, but be competitive in the major niches...

 

They ARE competing, but Cadillac's 'upper hand' is that they DON'T have to offer 43 models; they can pick & chose.

Far too often, people think "competing" means matching every tiny, worthless, niche model that others do. That's not 'competing', it's shadowing.

I'm arguing elsewhere, right now, with a guy who thinks the 3-series is "much larger" than the ATS, when they are virtually identical in size. These sort of folk will never be happy with even what they suggest Cadillac should do, because first & foremost they will NEVER be Cadillac customers (the badge is wrong). It's a colossal waste of time & money to pursue these people, with these fringe, niche models even the other brands' customers don't buy (IE: the 1-series, or the R8, for example).

 

There HAS to be a strong, long-term vision for the core models, above ALL else.

 

A 3 Series and ATS are the same size. The 3 Series just has better packaging. The back seat is much roomier in the BMW.

 

 

Or they could do something like CS* for the coupes...CS4, CS6, etc...  and then have something like a XS5 for a sport utility coupe...(X4 or X6 competitor).

Who is all this BMW shadowing supposed to appeal to, that's going to sign for a Cadillac? These folks want a misshapen & bloated 4-dr hatchback, they can march over to BMW for their fat dozen sedans and kindergarten naming schemes.

 

Again: Cadillac does not "Need" to answer all 43 models at BMW.

 

I agree.  BMW's history is the 3-series, I actually thought the coupes and convertibles should have stayed 3-series.  That is their bread and butter product, variants of it are a good thing, but I don't like the 4-series split, and a 4-door 4-series is just stupid.

 

I also don't get why Cadillac wants to be so much like BMW.  It is like they sat around the product development table at Cadillac and said Joe says "we need a BMW X5 competitor."  Then Sally says "oh I have a great idea, lets make an SUV the same size and call it XT5!  Then buyers will know it matches up to a BMW X5, and by putting a "T" in there we can't get sued for trademark infringement."  Then Joe says "great idea Sally, and we can make an XT1 and an XT3 as well to compete with the X1 and X3!!!"

 

It's pathetic.  Even in their own brand "Escalade" is there most recognizable and successful product.  Yet they don't want to follow use of word names, or pay homage to the Eldorados and Fleetwoods of the past (which were mostly good cars until the mid 80s).  This copy BMW will get them no where.  Cadillac should be Cadillac.

 

I don't think they need 43 models, but they need 3 crossovers plus Escalade on the SUV side, 4 car lines and some sort of sports car.

 

I very much agree with this. Cadillac building 10 year old BMW's obviously isn't working. They are going to have to find the right balance of driving dynamics, luxury, style, and identity. When you are perceived to be inferior to the competition in any regard, you have to outdo your competitors in those aspects. Not almost match them, not even do just as good. You have to beat them. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are building too many models. And they're cutting too many corners in too many products. It will catch up with them if they don't get it in check. Cadillac does NOT need to follow down the same path.

I personally think a sub-ATS is unneeded. They need to continue to improve the ATS as it is, build a proper S Class competitor, and something above that. Then some sort of sports/super halo car. As for CUV's, 2 is plenty. 3 at absolute most.

 

 

 

Or they could do something like CS* for the coupes...CS4, CS6, etc...  and then have something like a XS5 for a sport utility coupe...(X4 or X6 competitor).

Who is all this BMW shadowing supposed to appeal to, that's going to sign for a Cadillac? These folks want a misshapen & bloated 4-dr hatchback, they can march over to BMW for their fat dozen sedans and kindergarten naming schemes.

 

Again: Cadillac does not "Need" to answer all 43 models at BMW.

 

Well, they are trying to compete w/ the big 3 (Audi, BMW, MB) so it's natural they are going to try and match them at some level...maybe not in lock step, but be competitive in the major niches...

 

They ARE competing, but Cadillac's 'upper hand' is that they DON'T have to offer 43 models; they can pick & chose.

Far too often, people think "competing" means matching every tiny, worthless, niche model that others do. That's not 'competing', it's shadowing.

I'm arguing elsewhere, right now, with a guy who thinks the 3-series is "much larger" than the ATS, when they are virtually identical in size. These sort of folk will never be happy with even what they suggest Cadillac should do, because first & foremost they will NEVER be Cadillac customers (the badge is wrong). It's a colossal waste of time & money to pursue these people, with these fringe, niche models even the other brands' customers don't buy (IE: the 1-series, or the R8, for example).

 

There HAS to be a strong, long-term vision for the core models, above ALL else.

 

If the argument is going on where I think it is be careful.. They don't like GM lovers over there. 

I agree with your assessment on the lack of need for Cadillac to go full-line.. but in I have to add that the at least need to provide the basics within the segment. 

Minimum 6 Cars, 

CT3 (ATS), CT5(CTS), CT6, CT8, niche CT7 (Elmiraj)Coupe, CT2 Sports Car.  Within the CT3 and CT5 lines, there be a coupe and a wagon... or at least a coupe for the smaller and a wagon for the mid

Minimum 5 SUV/CUVs

XT3 (Keep current SRX and give it a nose job and some of the new tech)

XT5

XT6 (LWB C1xx the size of the Lambda

Escalade

Escalade Prime (Think H2, but capable)

True Drew, about ST...

 

I LOVED the name STS...but I loved the name Seville Touring Sedan even better. 

Cut short to Seville is still best in my opinion.

 

Its grateful that the powers that may be cut short the STS moniker, or else we would have STDs running around today for other model names....

 

So yeah, I dont like the ST# either. But...I guess where their is a will, there is a way.

It was a purely hypothetical designation that I made up while waiting for a flight.  But it's true... there is no reason the sedans have to be CT and the coupes do too...The coupes/convertibles can be anything. 

Cmicasa- I agree w/ your lineup, but the ATS need to stay at the very bottom… so any 'CT2' needs to slot above it (CT4).

Also agree with 'at least 1 wagon & 1 coupe… but more would be nice. I would love to see, right now, the ATS coupe & a CTS coupe together in the catalog.

Also, you mentioned "at least 6 SUVs but your list shows 4, and IMO that's perfect. 

 

Cmicasa- I agree w/ your lineup, but the ATS need to stay at the very bottom… so any 'CT2' needs to slot above it (CT4).

Also agree with 'at least 1 wagon & 1 coupe… but more would be nice. I would love to see, right now, the ATS coupe & a CTS coupe together in the catalog.

Also, you mentioned "at least 6 SUVs but your list shows 4, and IMO that's perfect. 

 

Actually I meant to type 5.. and it shows 5, as the Escalade PRIME would not be the Escalade as we kno it.. but more along the lines of a capable Hummer H2, ostentatious as hell. 

The CT2,.. well I say that because it wouldn't be a sedan but a sport coupe/convert about the size of the Sky. In fact.. if it were OK to do it. I would dust off the Sky, change the fascia, add the Alpha platform under it and put it on lots as a Cadillac

Ellinghouse says there are going to be 2 crossovers below XT5 and a 3 row crossover above XT5.  He said there could even be a 5th crossover in the line-up, that would also be above XT5.  I am curious how they price the XT5, because if they price it against the Lexus RX it is going to be hard to get 2 vehicles below that.  

Ellinghouse says there are going to be 2 crossovers below XT5 and a 3 row crossover above XT5.  He said there could even be a 5th crossover in the line-up, that would also be above XT5.  I am curious how they price the XT5, because if they price it against the Lexus RX it is going to be hard to get 2 vehicles below that.  

I dunno.. the idea I think is purveyed in the quote:

 

Ellinghaus confirms that the XT5 will be bracketed by a larger, three-row model and a smaller, compact entry. And the fourth? “We can envisage an even more compact [model], but we can also envisage something between a three-row SUV/crossover-derived car and the Escalade,” he says.

“The Escalade is so huge, and it’s different because it’s truck-based, that if the growth of the SUV segment continues, I really think there is space for maybe even two smaller cars than the XT5 and maybe even two larger ones.” So five in total.

“But that’s the ultimate range that I can envisage—far out. The first step is the smaller one, and that’s because compact SUVs are hot. Look at the X1, look at the Q3. And then the second priority is to close the gap between XT5 and Escalade.”

C&D

As to the underling CUV. I still say that the SRX is still capable of being sold with a quick refresh on the front.. and a nice update to the inside tech, such as Apple CP and Android Car. The XT5's size internally is significant enough to do this over the SRX

As to the underling CUV. I still say that the SRX is still capable of being sold with a quick refresh on the front.. and a nice update to the inside tech, such as Apple CP and Android Car. The XT5's size internally is significant enough to do this over the SRX

 

 

So are you saying to have the current SRX refreshed and then sell it as an XT4 or XT3?

5 CUV's for Cadillac is too much. Sorry, it just is.

^ Yeah.

The only ones that are making sense to me are competition to the X3, X5, X7? and then the Escalade but I actually don't put that up against anything else because it is just what it is, Escalade. So I'm only really seeing 3 CUVs. I could see adding something tiny like the X1 down the road as CAFE tightens up and the brand gains a little more equity but I don't see where a 5th CUV would go. 

5 CUV's for Cadillac is too much. Sorry, it just is.

Remember, think globally.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that will sell great here will sell terrible in Europe and China.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that sell great in China and Europe won't sell that great here.   Cadillac needs a full portfolio to cover all of those bases.

As to the underling CUV. I still say that the SRX is still capable of being sold with a quick refresh on the front.. and a nice update to the inside tech, such as Apple CP and Android Car. The XT5's size internally is significant enough to do this over the SRX

 

So are you saying to have the current SRX refreshed and then sell it as an XT4 or XT3?

Yes.. At least til the "real" XT3/4 arrived.. Which will be 2 years minimum. The SRX is still competitive, but some refreshment wouldn't hurt. Sorta like the one did to the Lambdas in 13

5 CUV's for Cadillac is too much. Sorry, it just is.

It really is. XT3, XT5, XT7, and the Escalade. Good to go.. Atho Drew's point is a valid reason. Sometimes market should determine product.

XT5 should be priced $10,000 above SRX, the XT3 would be smaller like ATS size and priced where the current SRX is, that still allows for a compact $32k crossover around 178 inches long. Make a 3 row crossover and that gives you 4 total.

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

Cars are - CT

CUVs are - XT

Escalade is Escalade

EV cars are - ?

EV CUVs are - ?

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

 

Cars are - CT

 

CUVs are - XT

 

Escalade is Escalade

 

EV cars are - ?

 

EV CUVs are - ?

Why do they need something special for EV cars/CUVs? Why not just continue with the CTe# or CT#e ? 

 

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

 

Cars are - CT

 

CUVs are - XT

 

Escalade is Escalade

 

EV cars are - ?

 

EV CUVs are - ?

Why do they need something special for EV cars/CUVs? Why not just continue with the CTe# or CT#e ? 

 

That is the whole point of posting this, what do people think Cadillac should do when it comes to pure electric auto's?

 

5 CUV's for Cadillac is too much. Sorry, it just is.

 

Remember, think globally.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that will sell great here will sell terrible in Europe and China.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that sell great in China and Europe won't sell that great here.   Cadillac needs a full portfolio to cover all of those bases.

 

I thought that's what Buick was for.

 

 

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

 

Cars are - CT

 

CUVs are - XT

 

Escalade is Escalade

 

EV cars are - ?

 

EV CUVs are - ?

Why do they need something special for EV cars/CUVs? Why not just continue with the CTe# or CT#e ? 

 

That is the whole point of posting this, what do people think Cadillac should do when it comes to pure electric auto's?

 

I see what you mean and it does get a little fuzzy when you have a stand alone EV which shares nothing with a gasoline car. My initial thought was, " Electric CT6...throw an 'e' in there. CT6e" but I wasn't thinking of a stand alone car like the ELR which isn't an electric version of anything. 

 

 

5 CUV's for Cadillac is too much. Sorry, it just is.

 

Remember, think globally.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that will sell great here will sell terrible in Europe and China.  Some of the CUVs/SUVs that sell great in China and Europe won't sell that great here.   Cadillac needs a full portfolio to cover all of those bases.

 

 

 

I thought that's what Buick was for.

 

Cadillac is going there too.  Cadillac sells at a much higher price point in other countries, particularly China.  Buick actually has models priced below the Verano in China that we don't get.

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

 

Cars are - CT

 

CUVs are - XT

 

Escalade is Escalade

 

EV cars are - ?

 

EV CUVs are - ?

I hear that a SUPER/Sports CAR is in the works after 2020.. that will be the "STx" Line

They have V-series for performance cars, so maybe EV-series for electro.

This could prove good for a small Chevy coupe or even a Buick/Opel/Holden. 

I really don't think many really understand how much Cadillac is going to change in the next few years. The ATS and CTS will see major changes as will the XT5 and CT6 at some point. These are not products of the present management and they are wanting better style and quality so if you like what we have it should only get better. 

 

So I wonder what Cadillac will call their EV line when they launch it? Should they have their own designation like what BMW did or more like MB where they just take existing models and have an EV version? Should it be a sub category all on it's own under existing categories?

 

Cars are - CT

 

CUVs are - XT

 

Escalade is Escalade

 

EV cars are - ?

 

EV CUVs are - ?

 

 

 

I hear that a SUPER/Sports CAR is in the works after 2020.. that will be the "STx" Line

 

But what about the XTS?  or the Dodge Charger SXT?  or the SRX?