Cadillac ELR To Begin Production In Late 2013

SWEET!!!! Rock on GM!!!

I hope GM keeps the expected sales volume low on these. I am sure they will sell but not in great numbers. If they go over board on the numbers it will only give the enemies of these cars ammo.

This is going to be a neat low volume halo car.

  On 10/16/2012 at 9:33 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

This is going to be a neat low volume halo car.

It will be at that. I just don't want to see it beat on by media and idiots that do not understand what the real goal is here. Also I do not want GM to say we will build 50,000 a year. I would rather they under estimate the total. It is better to underestimate production vs over estimate it and look a failure.

At least this one will hit the market unlike many other delayed electric cars like Fiskers next cat that may show up in 14-15-16 if ever.

I hope they toss in some performance suprise here like a turbo 4 and bigger electric motors.

this is gonna be fantastic

  On 10/16/2012 at 11:30 PM, hyperv6 said:

  On 10/16/2012 at 9:33 PM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

This is going to be a neat low volume halo car.

It will be at that. I just don't want to see it beat on by media and idiots that do not understand what the real goal is here. Also I do not want GM to say we will build 50,000 a year. I would rather they under estimate the total. It is better to underestimate production vs over estimate it and look a failure.

Some of the know-nothing asshats in other forums I'm active in are already calling it the 'Cimmaron II".

GM really needs to get across this is not a Prius and what the goals really are, other wise the truth will get twisted and bent as much as it did in tonights debate.

GM needs to line out the goals and the reasons for this car. They need to address this is the seed to start growth of the segment that this car and the Volt represents. They need to state clearly this is not a car for everyone but it will grow into a segment that will suit attention into the future.

If they had given up on the Gas powered automobile in 1900 as being too expensive, complicated and short on range where would we be today. But many like Ford, Leland, Olds, Benz, Winton etc kept at it and created a market where the cars imporved.

Today people have little long term vision and already can't wait for the I phone 6. Somethings still take time and work to achieve and this is one.

Cadillac needs to do something to make this special. It can not just be a good looking Volt. It needs to offer improved performance and things just not possible in a Volt. It also needs to be better than the Tesla and do it cheaper.

Agreed, hyperv6

  On 10/17/2012 at 3:28 AM, hyperv6 said:

GM really needs to get across this is not a Prius and what the goals really are, other wise the truth will get twisted and bent as much as it did in tonights debate.

GM needs to line out the goals and the reasons for this car. They need to address this is the seed to start growth of the segment that this car and the Volt represents. They need to state clearly this is not a car for everyone but it will grow into a segment that will suit attention into the future.

If they had given up on the Gas powered automobile in 1900 as being too expensive, complicated and short on range where would we be today. But many like Ford, Leland, Olds, Benz, Winton etc kept at it and created a market where the cars imporved.

Today people have little long term vision and already can't wait for the I phone 6. Somethings still take time and work to achieve and this is one.

Cadillac needs to do something to make this special. It can not just be a good looking Volt. It needs to offer improved performance and things just not possible in a Volt. It also needs to be better than the Tesla and do it cheaper.

I agree with you Hyper,

So what is the real story here? What is the real message to the masses?

I have to admit that while I am excited by this car and my personal understanding is this is a long range green car for the luxury market but with more performance so it will not be as fuel efficient as the Volt but still way better than if it was just another luxury 4 door.

I honestly do not know the marketing message for this car yet. Does anyone else know what GM is trying to get across with this auto?

My thought is the newest technology goes in here. GM has already been working on gen 2 and 3 for the Volt so I would say add to this car first and move it to the Chevy when the next gen is available.

The idea here is a play toy for those with money that are buying Tesla's and Fiskers. It also is a car that will use less gas.

I also see them playing with the ICE and Electric combo for different performace. We already know the electric motors are instant torque and how could that be made to cut MPG but still keep performance in the car. I see GM playing around with the combo and as batteries improve the range and speed will increase.

Like in the debate last night Obama was saying how great it will be that we can go more than twice as far in the new cars because of the standards. The real question will they have is sorted out by then that we will have cars we will want to go twice as far in.

Right now they are all looking for what will work with the public.

I see this as a way for GM to spread the cost of the Volt but also play around to see just what people like or will accept. Think of this as a live test for product.

Lets face it no one has made a affordable luuxury electric car that looked good. I think they are just seeing what could be done for less than a Tesla and a car styled more than a science experiment.

I think this car will be a learning experience not just for us and GM but also for the industry.

Well they've already learned that people don't want electric cars, so what exactly is the point except to cut losses on Voltec?

Blu you miss the point.

There is a growing market for these cars though it is small now. In time as they improve in range and power they will become more and more popular. The truth is I see the Electric cars taking off more in Europe with the strong green party support there not to mention their near $10 a gallon of gas or more.

In the mean time companies even like Porsche and Ferrari are combining electric and ICE into performance cars.

This is a time of discovery, invention and growth for these cars. It is not a case where companies just say we will build them when people want them as they need to create a market to get suppliers willing to invest into better and new technology.

Lets face it these cars are just one step away from a Science experiment but they are growing more and more into cars that are almost like a normal car. GM has the best Idea for the moment but the only thing holding them back is price. Get the price down on the Volt to where the Prius is and people will say Prius what?

In time we will have better batteries and motors with the investment. Lets face it what ever supplier comes up with the right parts stands to own the market with all MFG's. The Automaker who can come up with the right combo can also make a fortune on license fees to other makers for their technology.

Either way this is one of those deals you have to walk before you can run. Also if you don't walk you will never run.

I'm told that the interior will be among GM's finest.

  On 10/22/2012 at 1:59 AM, Oldsmoboi said:

I'm told that the interior will be among GM's finest.

Let's hope so. It needs to carve a niche for itself, and the 'Luxury' part of the equation can very well be that niche...

I keep hearing the ELR being compared to the Tesla and I hope that GM understands the performance/economy balance that Tesla has is the wining formula in this low volume segment.

IF A SMALL COMPANY LIKE TESLA CAN MAKE THE MODEL S COMPETITIVE SO CAN GM!!

Well the ELR will still be Volt sized. The Tesla Model S is nearly XTS sized.

This won't be nearly as good as a Tesla Model S from a performance standpoint. The Model S with the best battery/motor combo has a 0-60 time of 3.9 - 4.3 seconds depending on who tested it. That's pretty fast.

I am not really sure what this will compete against, there are no other cars that close to it. When you think of $50-60k 2-door sports cars you think Z4, SLK, Boxster/Cayman, even Corvette. Those cars have way more performance than a FWD Volt based car will and 3 of the 4 have good interior too. People that want high MPG usually don't care about luxury, that is why the Lexus HS250h and CT200h bombed, and I don't think I've ever seen an S400 hybrid on the road, but I see S550s every day.

^ The reason --as no doubt you can attest to-- that the s400 is a flop, is because a flagship luxury car cannot succeed with a V6, right?

RE the Tesla S, IS it 'competitive'? What have it's sales been to date?

The Interior of the ELR is said to be beyond anything GM has ever done.

^ Looking forward to seeing that, and that could easily go miles towards grabbing buyers vs. a performance stat.

I don't see the ELR being marketed as a bona fide sports car, anyway.

  On 11/3/2012 at 9:48 PM, balthazar said:

^ The reason --as no doubt you can attest to-- that the s400 is a flop, is because a flagship luxury car cannot succeed with a V6, right?

RE the Tesla S, IS it 'competitive'? What have it's sales been to date?

The Tesla and Fisker Karma don't sell either, very few people want to pay mega bucks for electric cars. The case for hybrids or high mileage exists more with environmentalists looking to save on transportation costs. Thus why the Prius has been a success and the Lexus attempts flopped.

The A8 and 7-series have 6-cylinder power as well, that is going to be coming to all cars. The S400 doesn't make sense, the mileage is too low, the S350 Bluetec makes sense because it has 455 lb-ft and gets 31 mpg. Plus the reliability of diesel and that all appeals to the commercial use of the S-class. My guess though is the V8 crushes those in sales though, gas is cheap here. The diesel S-class is here for CAFE offset of the V12, limo market that wants reliability and high mileage and just in case gas prices rapidly go up.

To me, people that pay $60k for a car, or especially $100k for a car don't want slow, they want performance, that is why all these eco-luxury cars don't sell, it is like making an hybrid V6 Corvette, no one wants that, they want a big V8.

  On 11/3/2012 at 10:27 PM, Oldsmoboi said:

The Interior of the ELR is said to be beyond anything GM has ever done.

But at the same time, what have they done? And it is hard to sell a pricey car on just interior without any performance. Unless they are doing a Rolls Phantom level interior and selling that for $60k, I just can't see this car selling. Cadillac is wasting money and resources that could go to a RWD flagship sedan or a true sports car, or a RWD mid size SUV.

  On 11/4/2012 at 5:16 AM, smk4565 said:

  On 11/3/2012 at 10:27 PM, Oldsmoboi said:

The Interior of the ELR is said to be beyond anything GM has ever done.

But at the same time, what have they done? And it is hard to sell a pricey car on just interior without any performance. Unless they are doing a Rolls Phantom level interior and selling that for $60k, I just can't see this car selling. Cadillac is wasting money and resources that could go to a RWD flagship sedan or a true sports car, or a RWD mid size SUV.

I totally disagree, here in Seattle as in Portland, the Hybrid and electric luxury auto's seem to sell well as I see a ton of them every day and I cannot wait for Caddy to get into this segment.

The new Money being in High Tech seems to also go with the green movement.

  On 11/4/2012 at 5:16 AM, smk4565 said:

  On 11/3/2012 at 10:27 PM, Oldsmoboi said:

The Interior of the ELR is said to be beyond anything GM has ever done.

But at the same time, what have they done? And it is hard to sell a pricey car on just interior without any performance. Unless they are doing a Rolls Phantom level interior and selling that for $60k, I just can't see this car selling. Cadillac is wasting money and resources that could go to a RWD flagship sedan or a true sports car, or a RWD mid size SUV.

The ATS is being compared to as equal or above the 3-series in some reviews. So I guess we'll see what else Cadillac can do.

The Cadillac will sell but we have to think in electric car volumes. It may sell about the same as the Volt at best. The Tesla and Fisker are more toys for the wealthy to play look at what I have. They are priced well beyond for what you get but most of these guys also have a Bently or Benz in the garage too.

The appeal of the Cadillac will be that it will be cheaper than the other two. It also will have a dealer network in every city vs the others that have to be flat bedded to where ever you can get it fixed. Finally the Cadillac is a car that you really can drive. Run out of power and you still make it home.

Like it or not the GM system is the best sorted one out there right now and offers the best option till better batteries come along. The only issue killing the Volt is cost but GM knew that as anyone informed knew that too. GIven time the cost will come down. Also with the changes coming for gas engined cars to meet 53 MPG their cost will go up.

The electric car market is only just past the birth stage and will take time to grow and develope. If there were no market of any vehicles we would see little to no growth as we have for nearly 100 years. If there is a market people will invest in it. The company that makes a battery or power system that delivers will be the next Apple. Crack this tough nut and the cash will flow in. The reward is there but it will take time and money to reach it.

The ELR will be pushed as a Luxury coupe with great perfomance and very good handling. The torque will help with the performance and the battery weight will help in ride and handling. It will not be termed a sport coupe but a sporty couple, Performance will be expressed not implied.

Weather Cadillac likes it or not the ELR will be compared directly with the Model S. This is due to the fact that they are both luxury performance vehicle with electric propulsion. The ELR must perform range and performance wise at least with the base 57,000 dollar Model S. Range should not be a problem due to the fact that the ELR has theto advantage of the engine generator.

The ELR is a much smaller vehicle though.

They'll sell. I'm seeing more Volts where I live every day. It helps that cities in SoCal are installing charging stations (some free) and the Volt gets the sticker to get in the car pool lane. But also when Gas was flirting with $5 per gallon regular even my dyed-in-the-wool SUV friends were considering downsizing.

The real issue is getting out the message what the Volt is and how it works and I think GM is doing a good job on that. The ELR will get market penetration where the Volt might not by being sportier, luxurious and by being a Cadillac.

I remember when people on forums were saying the FWD SRX was the worst idea ever, and it's a sales smash..

What is going to make the ELR sporty? Compared to say an ATS 3.6 with Magnaride that costs possibly $10-20,000 less. The ELR will probably be the least sporty coupe over $45k on the market. If the interior is Audi A8 level to offset the lack of performance maybe they have something, but most people looking to spend $60k (or whatever this will be) on a coupe are looking for a sports car or grand tourer.

Sell I can see you have never driven a Volt.

The Fact is the Volt even on stiff tires and not claiming to be a sports sedan handles pretty well and has more torque than many claimed sports sedans. GM can make this the ELR have the right feel to be very sporting the question is will they take this path.

  On 11/20/2012 at 2:12 AM, smk4565 said:

What is going to make the ELR sporty? Compared to say an ATS 3.6 with Magnaride that costs possibly $10-20,000 less. The ELR will probably be the least sporty coupe over $45k on the market. If the interior is Audi A8 level to offset the lack of performance maybe they have something, but most people looking to spend $60k (or whatever this will be) on a coupe are looking for a sports car or grand tourer.

What makes the ELR sporty? It's called magnetics. The Volt already has a ton of torque and already handles better than most family sedans due to weight balance. Add magnetic ride control (a system which is nearly magical in its abilities), and I think the ELR will be plenty sporty.

Neither the Miata nor FR-S are particularly powerful under the hood, yet both of them are considered sports cars.

omg no way do we believe an ELR will rival a Miata or BRZ for driving fun.

It seems like the ELR's biggest competition will be the CTS coupe in the same showroom.

  On 11/20/2012 at 4:19 PM, ocnblu said:

omg no way do we believe an ELR will rival a Miata or BRZ for driving fun.

oh jesus tapdance christ that isn't what I said.

I said that huge amounts of power are not needed for a car to feel sporty.

oh

I was just pumping, you know I have to swing that way.

The ELR I assume is going to be a 2+2 coupe, but look at all the 2 and 4 seat coupes that cost in the $50-60,000 range:

Next Gen CTS and potential future ATS coupe

Chevy Corvette

Chevy Camaro ZL1

BMW Z4

BMW 335i/M3

Mercedes E-Class Coupe

Mercedes SLK

Porsche Boxtser/Cayman

Audi A5/S5

The 2 Chevys aren't luxury cars, but the rest are, and the ELR built on the Delta platform and loaded with batteries isn't going to have the sportiness of any of the cars on that list. "Sporty" is a relative term, a Fusion or Optima may feel "sporty" compared to a Camry but in the luxury coupe class the standard is way higher.

This ELR is going to have to sell almost only on Eco impact and electric range, which is going to be almost impossible. This car is a waste of money that could be spend on RWD Cadillacs.

Mustang Shelby GT 500

  On 11/21/2012 at 1:09 AM, smk4565 said:

The ELR I assume is going to be a 2+2 coupe, but look at all the 2 and 4 seat coupes that cost in the $50-60,000 range:

Next Gen CTS and potential future ATS coupe

Chevy Corvette

Chevy Camaro ZL1

BMW Z4

BMW 335i/M3

Mercedes E-Class Coupe

Mercedes SLK

Porsche Boxtser/Cayman

Audi A5/S5

The 2 Chevys aren't luxury cars, but the rest are, and the ELR built on the Delta platform and loaded with batteries isn't going to have the sportiness of any of the cars on that list. "Sporty" is a relative term, a Fusion or Optima may feel "sporty" compared to a Camry but in the luxury coupe class the standard is way higher.

So wait, Have you driven all of those coupes on that list and ELR mules with the Delta Platform and all of those heavy batteries? I'm guessing not.

Look, none of us are sure about how this thing will handle at all. It might be "sporty" or it might be Volt in a fancier dress. We don't know! Here's what I'm certain about,

• Its going to be a Cadillac
  
• Wear the name plate of ELR
  
• Looks pretty much like the concept
  
• Will use the Voltec powertrain, albeit with more power
  
• Use CUE
  

So lets not guess how its going to drive till some people get in and take it for a spin.

One more thing: E-Class isn't considered sporty.. Luxurious, sure. Sporty.. you're pushing it.

  On 11/21/2012 at 1:09 AM, smk4565 said:

This ELR is going to have to sell almost only on Eco impact and electric range, which is going to be almost impossible.

Wait, isn't that how the Chevrolet Volt sold as? How it doesn't have that much of an impact on the environment and up to a 40 mile electric range?